Varithina Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Bethesda could easily release SKSE64 themselves that guarantees backwards compatibility with every oldrim mod and charge $50 for it. I bet all of you would buy it. Same for ENB. That'll be another $50. lol Considering that is more than the game cost, in my case that would be a definate no to buying such an item, $10 certainly, more than that no.
Guest Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Doesn't really matter if you think it looks cartoony or not, that wasn't the point. The effects being used are more advanced than what SE is using out of the box. Pick your detailed ENB of choice, the point stands. SE is not better than oldrim with a enb out of the box. This whole debate is a Gordian knot. You can smack people in the face with all sorts of positives about SSE, but if they can't give up SKSE mods or their favourite ENB they're not going to make the jump. Classic ENB shots versus SSE vanilla ones would suddenly seem a lot less compelling as an argument worth having if SKSE64 was released tomorrow I'd wager. Most of the shouty herberts in this thread would have to find something else to be overly combative about.
junkacc Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Bethesda could easily release SKSE64 themselves that guarantees backwards compatibility with every oldrim mod and charge $50 for it. I bet all of you would buy it. Same for ENB. That'll be another $50. lol Considering that is more than the game cost, in my case that would be a definate no to buying such an item, $10 certainly, more than that no. But your body says 'yes'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHgn3ygT95c
pipdude Posted July 23, 2017 Author Posted July 23, 2017 Doesn't really matter if you think it looks cartoony or not, that wasn't the point. The effects being used are more advanced than what SE is using out of the box. Pick your detailed ENB of choice, the point stands. SE is not better than oldrim with a enb out of the box. The point was that your screenshots didn't do a very good job of convincing me that graphic possibilities in oldrim (enb or not) are a compelling reason to stick with oldrim. The point, as you write it, does not stand. The effect capabilities of ENB is a very limited basis of comparison. There are many other factors to compare beyond that and SE has a huge advantage being 64 bit. Bethesda could easily release SKSE64 themselves that guarantees backwards compatibility with every oldrim mod and charge $50 for it. I bet all of you would buy it. Same for ENB. That'll be another $50. lol They could do this. Though, another way to look at it, I bet they could squeeze more profit out of the game by simply making the SKSE function set available for free in SE than they will get out of this new mod hub (whatever its called). This whole debate is a Gordian knot. You can smack people in the face with all sorts of positives about SSE, but if they can't give up SKSE mods or their favourite ENB they're not going to make the jump. Classic ENB shots versus SSE vanilla ones would suddenly seem a lot less compelling as an argument worth having if SKSE64 was released tomorrow I'd wager. Most of the shouty herberts in this thread would have to find something else to be overly combative about. Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense.
Guest Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense. You're giving those folks far too much credit. Boris saying he can't or won't fix SSE ENB, that's a big deal. The SKSE team going AWOL likewise. Either both those things get resolved in reasonable time, or someone else comes along and does things a new way, or the whole thing goes into a slow, sedate decline while we all wait vainly for any game to come out that competes as even a remotely viable alternative modding platform. Little Johnny shouting about how his game looks prettier than your's does though....not so much.
allfather123 Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense. You're giving those folks far too much credit. Boris saying he can't or won't fix SSE ENB, that's a big deal. The SKSE team going AWOL likewise. Either both those things get resolved in reasonable time, or someone else comes along and does things a new way, or the whole thing goes into a slow, sedate decline while we all wait vainly for any game to come out that competes as even a remotely viable alternative modding platform. Little Johnny shouting about how his game looks prettier than your's does though....not so much. Truly well spoken.
Kaz Aanh Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 I speculate that SE without ENB and SKSESE is not worth speculating.
khumak Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 There's really not much I miss about Oldrim's ENB when playing SE. Basically just subsurface scattering. That would be nice to have, but if we never get it I'm content without. Vanilla SE already manages memory far better than Oldrim + ENB + SKSE simply because it's 64 bit. You can still crash the game but generally it's a hard conflict that does it, not running out of resources. I'm sure all the bugs and crappy memory handling from Oldrim are still there in SE, they just don't matter anymore because instead of being stuck with 4GB, SE will throw 8, 16, 32, or however much you have at it. That's why it's so much more stable, more resources. There really aren't that many Oldrim mods that absolutely require SKSE. Everything that doesn't use SKSE already works in SE so you already have a base of probably 90%+ mods from Oldrim that work in SE plus any exclusive to SE. Sometimes you might have to unpack a BSA or run some meshes through NIF Optimizer but that's easy. A lot of mods that do require SKSE also work in SE if all they use it for is the MCM menu. You just don't get the MCM.
Poet Olette Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 Doesn't really matter if you think it looks cartoony or not, that wasn't the point. The effects being used are more advanced than what SE is using out of the box. Pick your detailed ENB of choice, the point stands. SE is not better than oldrim with a enb out of the box. The point was that your screenshots didn't do a very good job of convincing me that graphic possibilities in oldrim (enb or not) are a compelling reason to stick with oldrim. The point, as you write it, does not stand. The effect capabilities of ENB is a very limited basis of comparison. There are many other factors to compare beyond that and SE has a huge advantage being 64 bit. Bethesda could easily release SKSE64 themselves that guarantees backwards compatibility with every oldrim mod and charge $50 for it. I bet all of you would buy it. Same for ENB. That'll be another $50. lol They could do this. Though, another way to look at it, I bet they could squeeze more profit out of the game by simply making the SKSE function set available for free in SE than they will get out of this new mod hub (whatever its called). This whole debate is a Gordian knot. You can smack people in the face with all sorts of positives about SSE, but if they can't give up SKSE mods or their favourite ENB they're not going to make the jump. Classic ENB shots versus SSE vanilla ones would suddenly seem a lot less compelling as an argument worth having if SKSE64 was released tomorrow I'd wager. Most of the shouty herberts in this thread would have to find something else to be overly combative about. Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense. What? Stick with oldrim? Thats not what I said at all. That wasn't even the point of my comment in the first place. Where did this come from o.O I'm not even playing on oldrim anymore, why would i try and make people play it over SSE? My original comment was to someone who said SSE was better than olrim with a enb out of the box. Crazy really. But yea. I don't really care which people like more XD. Thats a whole other debate for another thread lol. I was just shocked that someone would say such a thing. I mean again, if you like the vanilla look than more power to ya, but if we're gonna talk about technical stuff and what effects are being used and such than, thats just a crazy thing to say! But going back to SSE and SKSE im playing SSE at the moment, i wanted to try out texture mods, a lot of them, so much that it would probably make most peoples games crash. And After porting some mods over and actually taking a look inside and seeing what they truly require i found out that most of these script mods work on there own. So I really wasn't using that many skse mods in the first place. I will miss my tk mods and less intrusive hud and race menu BUT theres alternatives and I ended up with a little extra work being able to make a really nice character without race menu. So if SKSE doesn't come out i'm ok with that but if it does YAY. But yea sorry for the confusion but I wasn't saying OLDRIM IS BETTER BETTER BETTER, i was just saying I definately do not think SSE is better looking out of the box compared to oldrim with a highly detailed ENB , no matter how much i love SSE. A few more people got a bit confused too and thought i was talking about something else, i think a few comments got edited which is why.
Rex89 Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 this is just crazy i'm just going to say this, OLD Skyrim is J.U.N.K. i reinstalled old skyrim on to my computer without any mods! the game ran like J.U.N.K! i mean here's my rig, sure it's old but Skyrim SE ran like butter, hell i got 55 to 60FPS in markarth WITH NO MODS! In old SKYRIM the FPS was all over the place and im still using a HDD to store my games. i made sure all my ini's where default,then i added the fixes like the SKSE and ENB memory fixes and it sill ran like J.U.N.K. thought a bit better i have over 1736 hours in Old Skyrim i since uninstalled it in favor for a game that doesn't crash like the stock market, so far i love the fix's they did to the game engine for SE and i hope the modding community continues to try and make cool stuff for it and fix's too cause oldrim is just a pain in the but to setup and get stable. what where they thinking only using 4GB of memory. sure old skyrim has a lot of cool stuff but i think SE will have better i rather have the space on my HDD for SE MODs later on when every thing kicks off instead of hanging on to a dying game that won't get any more modding support once SE tacks off when ever the hell that will happen OS : Windows 10 Home 64bitProcessor: Intel® Core i7 920 2.67GHz turbo 2.93 GHz 8MBL3Memory: 12GB DDR3 1066MHz Triple ChannelMotherboard: something from dell Studio XPS 435t x58 ChipsetGraphics Card: PCI-E PNY GeForce GTX 1060 3GB GDDR5 XLR8 OCMonitor Size: DELL 21" 1080 pardon my french but Y'all need to chill the FUCK out! cause for SKSE64 in the mean time i'm going to play some other games like 7 days to die or Serious Sam Fusion 2017 (beta) and you should too cause it's going to be a long wait especially for Half Life 3
sunhawken Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 EMPSszE.jpg this is just crazy i'm just going to say this, OLD Skyrim is J.U.N.K. i reinstalled old skyrim on to my computer without any mods! the game ran like J.U.N.K! i mean here's my rig, sure it's old but Skyrim SE ran like butter, hell i got 55 to 60FPS in markarth WITH NO MODS! In old SKYRIM the FPS was all over the place and im still using a HDD to store my games. i made sure all my ini's where default,then i added the fixes like the SKSE and ENB memory fixes and it sill ran like J.U.N.K. thought a bit better i have over 1736 hours in Old Skyrim i since uninstalled it in favor for a game that doesn't crash like the stock market, so far i love the fix's they did to the game engine for SE and i hope the modding community continues to try and make cool stuff for it and fix's too cause oldrim is just a pain in the but to setup and get stable. what where they thinking only using 4GB of memory. sure old skyrim has a lot of cool stuff but i think SE will have better i rather have the space on my HDD for SE MODs later on when every thing kicks off instead of hanging on to a dying game that won't get any more modding support once SE tacks off when ever the hell that will happen OS : Windows 10 Home 64bit Processor: Intel® Core i7 920 2.67GHz turbo 2.93 GHz 8MBL3 Memory: 12GB DDR3 1066MHz Triple Channel Motherboard: something from dell Studio XPS 435t x58 Chipset Graphics Card: PCI-E PNY GeForce GTX 1060 3GB GDDR5 XLR8 OC Monitor Size: DELL 21" 1080 pardon my french but Y'all need to chill the FUCK out! cause HMMMM.jpg for SKSE64 in the mean time i'm going to play some other games like 7 days to die or Serious Sam Fusion 2017 (beta) and you should too cause it's going to be a long wait especially for Half Life 3 I agree with everything you said except for the junk part.
pipdude Posted July 24, 2017 Author Posted July 24, 2017 But yea sorry for the confusion but I wasn't saying OLDRIM IS BETTER BETTER BETTER, i was just saying I definately do not think SSE is better looking out of the box compared to oldrim with a highly detailed ENB , no matter how much i love SSE. A few more people got a bit confused too and thought i was talking about something else, i think a few comments got edited which is why. Fair enough. I think it was the use of the term "better" that was confusing. ENB on oldrim does have some additional features. But, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't achieve a look that is subjectively just as good using the other features on SE. pardon my french but Y'all need to chill the FUCK out! +1 for style points. You're giving those folks far too much credit. Boris saying he can't or won't fix SSE ENB, that's a big deal. The SKSE team going AWOL likewise. Either both those things get resolved in reasonable time, or someone else comes along and does things a new way, or the whole thing goes into a slow, sedate decline while we all wait vainly for any game to come out that competes as even a remotely viable alternative modding platform. Little Johnny shouting about how his game looks prettier than your's does though....not so much. Agreed.
Poet Olette Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 The work on the SSE enb's have stopped too? Poo. I got a enb and reshade running at the same time, with both you can get some pretty awesome visuals. I was pretty surprised. If things don't pick up and stuff I wonder whats gonna happen. I mean if it just doesn't die off (which I hope doesn't happen) "or someone else comes along and does things a new way," Im interested in seeing the new way. But I also hope things pick up.
I'm The Wabbit Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense. You're giving those folks far too much credit. Boris saying he can't or won't fix SSE ENB, that's a big deal. The SKSE team going AWOL likewise. Either both those things get resolved in reasonable time, or someone else comes along and does things a new way, or the whole thing goes into a slow, sedate decline while we all wait vainly for any game to come out that competes as even a remotely viable alternative modding platform. Little Johnny shouting about how his game looks prettier than your's does though....not so much. Was there an explanation for why Boris said he wouldn't cause I couldn't find it.
DykkenTomb Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 The work on the SSE enb's have stopped too? Poo. I got a enb and reshade running at the same time, with both you can get some pretty awesome visuals. I was pretty surprised. If things don't pick up and stuff I wonder whats gonna happen. I mean if it just doesn't die off (which I hope doesn't happen) "or someone else comes along and does things a new way," Im interested in seeing the new way. But I also hope things pick up. If my memory serves me correctly... And you can quote me on this. Boris has said before in the past he won't do something... And out of nowhere. BAM! He got bored and added new features to an ENB he wasn't thinking about. We don't know what he'll do. It just depends on Boris's mood.
Guest Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 Personally, I don't care what version of the game people play. Not trying to persuade anyone either way. The problem I have is with people actively discouraging further community development on a game they don't use. Doesn't make any sense. You're giving those folks far too much credit. Boris saying he can't or won't fix SSE ENB, that's a big deal. The SKSE team going AWOL likewise. Either both those things get resolved in reasonable time, or someone else comes along and does things a new way, or the whole thing goes into a slow, sedate decline while we all wait vainly for any game to come out that competes as even a remotely viable alternative modding platform. Little Johnny shouting about how his game looks prettier than your's does though....not so much. Was there an explanation for why Boris said he wouldn't cause I couldn't find it. First it was because Bethesda were still patching, then it was because of DX11. In February, around the time of the last patch he said: "I don't think Skyrim SE will get even 1/4 of features available in ENBSeries for old Skyrim and it's not because of me, but how Bethesda made their dx11 engine and this game porting." SSE ENB is a half-baked, poorly optimised paperweight at this point. And Boris knows it.
Poet Olette Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 From reading around that Boris guy doesn't seem to nice. Ive seen some of the technical support threads and some comments. Shame D: Has anyone tried using a enb for another game on SSE? Strange I know, but back in the day people used some other versions of ENB, like gta sa enb for a few other games ect.
yatol Posted July 24, 2017 Posted July 24, 2017 ENB on oldrim does have some additional features. But, it doesn't necessarily mean that you can't achieve a look that is subjectively just as good using the other features on SE. why are they whining those features are missing then? http://enbseries.enbdev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5078&start=50 "But in Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE shaders obfuscated, there is no information of any kind, so i don't know what objects uses which shaders, unless i see them visually and dump, but amount of shaders is huge for various lighting conditions and game video option combinations. For fallout 4 i have dumped via helper plugin, but there is still many things missing, plus i can't any more adaptively modify shaders, need patch all manually. It means huge amount of time and very big chance to make mistakes which i can't test unless such shader will be visible by game and believe me, i do many mistakes when using "copy-paste" procedure from one place to another. Another problem is that game now have huge amount of shaders for no reason, was 1256 in old game, now 8000+ shaders, i can't even modify water, because to patch all shaders and write them to my code as modified is almost 10 times more work. There are other changes made to rendering itself which makes impossible to make many things." don't look like that stuff will get done if all you can hope for is a look that is subjectively just as good using the other features... why bother trying? no idea what there is on those screens there isn't in sse enb (shader, subsurface, bloom, that's chinese for me)
pipdude Posted July 25, 2017 Author Posted July 25, 2017 The work on the SSE enb's have stopped too? Poo. I got a enb and reshade running at the same time, with both you can get some pretty awesome visuals. I was pretty surprised. If things don't pick up and stuff I wonder whats gonna happen. I mean if it just doesn't die off (which I hope doesn't happen) "or someone else comes along and does things a new way," Im interested in seeing the new way. But I also hope things pick up. It seems like increased activity motivates more activity. So, if someone with know-how in this area sees mods that interest them being created, odds are better that they will contribute and add features where they can also. why are they whining those features are missing then? Subjectivity
Rex89 Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 I agree with everything you said except for the junk part. yeah i went a bit overboard with that it just the rage took over me.
blacklord9 Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 Why don't they just fucking charge money for it and be done with it. Releasing the skse64 for 1$ would yield them A KILLING. I mean I get it, if they start doing it everyone will and then @ 255 mods we end up spending 255$. But think about this: don't drm or protect skse64 in any way, just explain that the official way to get it is to pay one dolla, so the kids won't have to steal their parents credit cards, and normal adults would gladly give 1 dolla. So in a hypothetical scenario in which skse64 gets 1 million unique downloads, I would estimate ~100,000-300,000$ worth of purchases. SO U KNO FO 4 MONTHS TRABAJO THAT NO BAD. (this is pure speculation based on a programmer working on this from 7 to 9 PM every day and more in weekends)
junkacc Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 It won't be $1. More like $50. Too expensive? They'll bundle it with a season pass. Maybe a subscription model. Watch the fanboys/paid shills defend it, "so much value!!!!"
blacklord9 Posted July 25, 2017 Posted July 25, 2017 It won't be $1. More like $50. Too expensive? They'll bundle it with a season pass. Maybe a subscription model. Watch the fanboys/paid shills defend it, "so much value!!!!" No no not beth, I mean the skse devs. I would guess the reason most devs abandon their projects is because of RL issues, and RL mostly boils down to job issues which also boil down to money issues (or atleast that's what it usually boils down for me as I am self employed so the more contracts I take on = more money but less time for hobbies). So you know, why not transform the skse thing into a business? There will always be more beth games in need of script extenders so the money would never stop pouring in for less work than a full time programming job. This will also lead to beth noticing and eventually assimilating them to take away their profits leading to full time jobs at beth. Win-win in my opinion?
pipdude Posted July 26, 2017 Author Posted July 26, 2017 Someone said that they have written agreements with Bethesda that prevents them from profiting off of SKSE.
DykkenTomb Posted July 26, 2017 Posted July 26, 2017 Someone said that they have written agreements with Bethesda that prevents them from profiting off of SKSE. First off I agree with the subjectivity argument. It seems people don't want to try because of the negative flare people have been raging on about SSE. Let's get the elephant out of the room. The negative comments are not helping mods get made in certain areas like bouncing animations and SKSE... Period. ENB has it's issues. (Rolling eyes)... What else is new.... No seriously. What else is new?.. I've watched this community from oldrim bicker in the past about how terrible oldrim was, but people kept being creative and pushing forward on the mods they wanted whether it was sex mods or script extender. The community came together and figured it out. You're telling me this community which created some of the mods amazing mods and content can't come together and create new fantastic mods which are better than oldrim's mods, because of limitations...... Give me a freaking break!.... Grow up!... We thought oldrim crashes couldn't be fixed. Along came a modder with crash fixes to keep it more stable. We thought Oldrim's memory would never get resolved. Alone and behold along came a modder and gave us a memory patch for sacrificing your first born. Old schoolers remember the mighty sheson pledge. Stop whining about what can't be done and lets start talking about what we can start to do!.... No really... Let start putting the conversation in a new direction about what we can do with what we have. What do we have? A beautiful game which can handle massive amounts of mods.. From textures, meshes, scripts, to whatever and doesn't crash... Check!.. The damn thing is stable, smooth and has a few issues much like the old version. However unlike the older version it just works. Now what don't we have SKSE64 and HDT. Very valuable on oldrim and a giant desire on SSE. Question... How do we get them if the previous authors don't have time to make them... Simple! We figure it out! No really it's that simple. We take the time to really start to look at other options. What can we do so far? We know we can implement animations. We know we can have a body and add a custom animation overlay to allow for movement. Am I tickling anyone's brain mechanics here? Where there is a will there is a way. You can argue with me till the cows come home. I'll still tell you where there is a will there is a way. As for paying Bethesda for a script extender. You really want Bethesda to make an script extender?... You think their engine's are buggy. Just wait till they give you a script extender you'll end up spending six months to even four years patching just to get it to work properly and you never know if they'll update it or not. One of the reasons SKSE was so sweet and their team awesome is because they had time... Time.... Time... To make the extender. They weren't being rushed or forced to work on it. They could do it whenever they pleased. Yeah, people were begging for it, but... They could do it when they wanted too. No deadlines or someone over their shoulder and without money involved they could make it anyway they wanted. That's one of the reasons why modders are amazing. They are free to do what they want in any amount of time they want. Having to pay for a script extender may also put a limit on what you can do with it. Anyway, that's just something to think about. I'm done ranting. One last point. I've seen a lot of people shouting about SSE is crap, but I'm seeing more and more people starting to come around after they play SSE. For any naysayers. Play the damn thing. Mod it to your hearts content. I've got both oldrim and SSE installed on my computer. You can do the same. Play what game you want. But quit trying to stifle the creativity of SSE modders, because whether you like it or not. SSE is here to stay and you can still play oldrim and have your spazing jiggle effects. XD
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