Sexual Abuse and Video Games

[prideslayer]

Profitability is exactly what it comes down to, and with sex-in-games, as long as those types of games have to be hidden away, there won't be many of them until there is real collaboration between the gaming and porn industries. If you want games with hardcore content sold on store shelves, the only way that's going to happen (in the US anyway) is in an "adult bookstore." Mainstream retailers would lose money on the prospect, simply because they have to dedicate floor space (in a back room somewhere or behind the counter) to product A which doesn't sell as well as product B.

 

That is how the retail world works. Every square foot of space is accounted for, and profitability assigned to it. Product placement in retail stores is not an accident, and there is a constant war between the brick & mortar stores themselves, that want to place the most popular items in the interior so you have to walk past less popular but more profitable items, and the publishers who want their product front and center getting maximum exposure.

 

AO titles are left out in the cold so to speak. They can't be placed within easy reach (or sight) of children due to laws, and they *won't* be placed there otherwise due to the threat of protests/boycotts/pickets/whatever from bored busybodies.

 

Nothing like sexout will be on retail shelves for a long time. If you doubt this, look back at the news shitstorm over ME1 and a bit of blue sideboob.

 

This leaves only digital distribution by indy developers and publishers, or established ones with a history of pissing off the busybodies and not caring about it. The only mainstream company I know of that fits the bill is Volition/THQ (saints row). I would've included Rockstar in that, as the original GTA (which I still have!) was a real firefight over all the violence (and look back -- it's a grainy top-down scroller!). They stuck to their guns and won that fight, but when they had a chance again with "hot coffee" they decided to go the other way.

 

Digital distribution is probably not really likely either, unless it's done via 1st party means. The chances of any AO titles appearing on PSN, XBL, or Steam is about zero I think.

[Kashked]

Well, if we are talking indie-titles there is the problem of quality as well. While I don't doubt that indie-producers can and do produce good stuff (just look at Mount & Blade, IMHO, the best "fighting-simulator", or whatever you wanna classify it as, on the market) a bigger budget helps.

 

The porn industry, as I understand it atleast, although I am hardly an authority, is struggling due to the massive amount of free porn on the web, but maybe producing adult games could be the saviour for them, who knows... Personally I would prefer sex to be included in "normal" games rather than play a pure "porno-game" though.

[prideslayer]

You aren't ever going to see explicit sex (let alone gratuitous explicit sex) in a mainstream game so long as the distributors aren't willing to support them. No major development shop is going to take on such a project when they know they'll never make back the money they spend on it.

 

A single explicit scene, even if "tastefully" done, will take a game from M to AO -- meaning your distribution channels have gone from "everywhere" to "download off my site" and your advertising options from "everywhere" to "a few cable channels at 3am" and porn banners like those here on LL. No established dev house will bankroll such a game.

 

So indie developers self-publishing is really the only option, at least until the distributors get less squeamish.

[Queen Bee]

With the profitability of live action porn dropping like an aging stripper's tits, I'm surprised not more of the big porn companies are jumping on the video game bandwagon. I suspect they could make it work if they did it right. They were and somewhat still are a multi-million dollar industry, surely they could sink some of that money into developing a worthwhile pornographic video game. Instead we get crap that looks like it was made in 1996.

[ZaZ]

Mmmm ,

I have still yet to come across a Porno Game , that satisfied my Expectations ,

Oblivion and Fallout NV With the Mods Came Close , But then its the craving that we want more and more , its an Unending Desire , the more Depraved the Better Right .

[Nepro]

There's rape games used in therapy? Someone needs to smuggle them out to the general public!

 

In my opinion:

 

I don't think such games exist. There're no treatments for rapists other than prison sentences. The prison works to make them another rape victim and/or another more brutal rapist. But the incarnation system usually leans toward the first variant. The prison hierarchy is simple - rapists and child abusers are the bottom and are large number of prisoners who get killed by other inmate(s).

 

 

I took psychology course titled psychology of human sexual behavior where the class heavily discussed the topic of rape. In addition the instructor gave intense lectures on it too. There was no mentioning of anything like rape games used in therapy. But I am not a therapist. I cannot disprove the rape games used in therapy. I merely stated the likelihood of such games being used in therapeutic practice.

[prideslayer]

They were and somewhat still are a multi-million dollar industry' date='

[/quote']

 

Porn overall (print, online, and retail) is a multi-billion dollar industry.

[Riku20xx]

So many well thought out posts here. Very interesting topic.

[Triratna]

Some women under 38 y.o shouldn't get involved in military and politics.

[Queen Bee]

Some men shouldn't either. What's your point?

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

Nobody should be involved in the military and politics.

[Queen Bee]

Well no, certainly not both at the same time. The military is a sword and shield. It's not their fault if they're misused by the politicians in charge.

 

Are we getting off topic though? This thread is about how depictions of sexual abuse in video games impact the gaming culture. I'd be interested in discussing the military/politics thing in another thread, though.

[CaptainChaos]

It took long enough to get to the time where we could have sex scenes in games such as the Witcher 2' date=' where films have had many times worse for almost half a century, and even then many developers are so used to being leapt on that in games like Mass Effect 3 people shower in underwear and wake up after a night of making love in that same underwear. Why are video games so much slower to mature when it coems ot storytelling?[/quote']Because "games are for kids" and the people who review and rate them seem to believe the average gamer age is 14, even though it's averaging out to around 35. It's the same thing when people think "college student." They think "drunken 18-year-old frat boy," ignoring that the median college age is around 30.

 

I'm in my mid-twenties. I'd like to have a 'truly' serious, mature and adult games market by the time I hit my early thirties. With stuff like this outcry that just isn't going to happen.

Old 80s action movies were awash with gratuitous nudity and violence. Film makers did everything they could to get an R rating rather than NC-17. But somewhere along the line the censors started getting a lot stricter on sexual content (not violence for some reason) and film makers also started realizing that PG-13 movies just sell better (larger target audience). This is why G movies do so well: yes, they're made for young kids, but someone has to drive them/supervise them.

 

I would argue that story-telling in movies has gone downhill and it's not all on the story writers. It's on the viewers. Loud explosions and Megan Fox 1 and 2 (also known as "Transformers") was a huge success even though the story ranges from balls retarded to non-existent.

 

Why waste time and money (in either the video game or movie industry) coming up with deep storytelling, when you can just release a loot simulator (Diablo 3) and people will buy it in droves?

As a woman living in NYC' date=' I am faced with the threat of rape on a daily basis.[/quote']Rape is terrible. But whereas a woman is much more likely to get raped than a man, young males are also much more likely to be murdered than women.

 

I can't say for certain, but I have a strong suspicion that men aren't as constantly aware of their gender as women are. We're not allowed to forget we're women, or more specifically the version of women that your average Hollywood movie would have you believe exists.

Men are aware of their gender, but in a different way: we aren't allowed to be weak. Those that are, either in real life or in the movies, are constantly looked down upon. This leads to men not even wanting to report being victimized (much like women who are sexually assaulted because they felt they were "asking for it.")

 

Hollywood sees us as weak, pathetic and desperately in need of a man to save us. Either that, or a government trained/genetically engineered/vampire/immortal/mutant uber chick with badass kung fu and an arsenal to rival Neo's. There's no middle ground. We're either pussies, or we're freaks. And those two extremes tell a lot about how American society views its women.

How many men are "saved" from their life of loneliness by the perfect woman they lust after?

 

Women are portrayed extremely poorly everywhere. But I also posit that men are about as poorly portrayed based upon societal stereotypes because that's what the average viewer wants to see (men and women) and they speak with their wallets. God forbid if you're a male minority.

 

Computer experts (or gamers) are portrayed as obsessed losers who suck with women, are usually cowards, and will freak out when handed a weapon. Back when I worked IT, I ran into a customer of ours at a bar. She literally could not comprehend that I could be good with computers and networking and still find time to go out drinking with friends and that I wasn't a socially awkward weirdo. When she overheard my conversation about "going to the shooting range next week" I thought she was going to choke.

 

If you aren't law enforcement/military and you own a few guns: you're a spree killer waiting to happen. I own a few and when people find out, I get weird looks depending on the company (I live in Texas. Other Texans give me weird looks).

 

If you're a physically fit ladies man, you're either turned around by "that one girl" or there was some woman who broke your heart to make you that way. This is the premise for a metric load of "chick flicks" which are popular among women.

 

How many well-written male characters are there really in any medium? Sure, there's more ways to stereotype men than women, but they're still lazily written caricatures.

 

NOTE: I honestly do believe women and minorities are more poorly portrayed than white males. But I also believe white males get shat on a great deal by writers. I think it's just because they don't know how to write a damned normal person and normal is boring anyway. But more than that, people like seeing these stereotypes (and pay money to see them) because it helps reinforce their personal views and/or makes it so they don't have to think when it comes to character motivations.

[Riku20xx]

Man, well written/thought out post, CaptainChaos. I agree with everything you wrote.

[Queen Bee]

Bear with me, I'm trying to post this from my iPhone.

 

As a woman living in NYC' date=' I am faced with the threat of rape on a daily basis.[/quote']

 

Rape is terrible. But whereas a woman is much more likely to get raped than a man, young males are also much more likely to be murdered than women.

 

I'm betting you don't tailor you social life around the likelihood that you'll be murdered. I mean, there's the obvious, "I won't go driving in that neighborhood because I'm likely to get shot", but I somehow doubt it's the first thing that pops into your mind when you leave your house at night. Plus, keep in mind, the high risk areas are just as dangerous for women as for men. It's just that while you'll just get murdered, I'll be raped first.

 

I can't say for certain' date=' but I have a strong suspicion that men aren't as constantly aware of their gender as women are. We're not allowed to forget we're women, or more specifically the version of women that your average Hollywood movie would have you believe exists.[/quote']

 

Men are aware of their gender, but in a different way: we aren't allowed to be weak. Those that are, either in real life or in the movies, are constantly looked down upon. This leads to men not even wanting to report being victimized (much like women who are sexually assaulted because they felt they were "asking for it.")

 

Actually, men are totally allowed to be weak. I see it portrayed in movies and TV shows all the time: Zombieland featured a protagonist who was a complete pussy; Buffy the Vampire Slayer had Xander, your stereotypical loser; Harry Potter probably couldn't bench half his own body weight, etc. I could go on, but you get my point. It's intentional. They're pandering to the skinny/overweight socially inept geek because they know they'll eat it up and cough up the dough for whatever they're selling. I'm not saying this is the way it's always been, it certainly wasn't when I was a kid. I just think the weak men of the world have it better now than ever. Meanwhile women are still twisting their ankles as they stumble screaming through the woods to get away from whatever.

 

 

Hollywood sees us as weak' date=' pathetic and desperately in need of a man to save us. Either that, or a government trained/genetically engineered/vampire/immortal/mutant uber chick with badass kung fu and an arsenal to rival Neo's. There's no middle ground. We're either pussies, or we're freaks. And those two extremes tell a lot about how American society views its women.[/quote']

 

How many men are "saved" from their life of loneliness by the perfect woman they lust after?

 

How exactly does this relate? My point was that women are funneled into two roles: uberbabe or scream queen. Men, on the other hand, can be literally anything, from a skinny geek to a buff hero, from a crippled doctor to an overweight slob, and they can still get the girl in the end. When was the last time you saw a movie about a fat woman getting the man of her dreams? For that matter, when was the last time you saw a fat woman cast in the lead role in anything?

 

Women are portrayed extremely poorly everywhere. But I also posit that men are about as poorly portrayed based upon societal stereotypes because that's what the average viewer wants to see (men and women) and they speak with their wallets. God forbid if you're a male minority.

 

I dunno' date=' I could name at least a dozen non-white male actors who don't get portrayed half as stereotypically as their female counterparts, and most lead female roles still go to white women unless the story in question is specifically about the woman's race. Male leads can go to any race regardless of the story's focus, and their race only comes up if the writer's feeling "edgy".

 

Computer experts (or gamers) are portrayed as obsessed losers who suck with women, are usually cowards, and will freak out when handed a weapon.

 

And yet by the end they will pick up that gun and learn the true meaning of (whatever) as they finally become the man the lead female wants. Good luck seeing the lead female holding a gun without first slapping her with a huge character flaw that she needs a man to help her overcome (Zombieland again), or else she might actually come across as independent. And god knows we can't have that.

 

I really hate for this to be an "us girls got it worse" argument, but if you think the plight of the portrayal of men in the entertainment industry is anywhere approaching what women go through, you're not paying enough attention.

[Guest GingerTom]

Quote queenbee57: ' Meanwhile women are still twisting their ankles as they stumble screaming through the woods to get away from whatever.'

 

Everytime I see something like that all I can think is: If I was being attacked and my woman started screaming instead of punching/hitting/helping me then if I survived she and I would be through!

[Queen Bee]

I don't care what it is, I will fight to my last breath. Giant spiders, aliens, zombies, or just plain old crazy people. I might go down, but I'm taking a part of you with me. Bring it on.

[Bravo34]

I may just be an average man who tries to keep out of this "Controversy"(Read:Fucking Hiroshima got less shit that this.) crap about the whole "attempted rape in a video game that has people FUCKING DIEING" is really stupid.I mean Matt Ward's Ultrasmurfs/Grey Knights stupid.Attempted rape that doesn't fucking happen anyway,and which results in the would be raper receiving more than his daily dose of bleeding from dat dere hole wut he shouldn't have?No,keep that shit out of our games.Nuking a city full of INNOCENT PEOPLE(CoD 4)?Sure.Why the fuck not.Chemical weapons being deployed on yet more cities of full of you guessed it,innocent people?Yes as long as there aren't any kids that are on screen when they go off.Chainsaw plastic surgery,sniper rifle skull golf,missing limbs,insta-gib cannons,and beating a guy to death with HIS OWN ARM?YESYESYESYES!A thousand times yes!I know this post sounds like the ramblings of someone who is clinically insane,but it annoys the hell out of me that some people are really this stupid.

 

I realize that all of the above points are really fucking stupid and I apologize in advance for offending any of you.(Read:Everyone,I must have drop-kicked lady luck's kid into a a set of tank treads or something.)

[KainsChylde]

Actually Bravo, I totally agree with you.

 

Consider Fallout 3 for example. Rape? No. Visible sex? No. Nuking a small town where you not only know there's children, but depending on the quests you've completed you've actually met one or two of them? Sure, why the fuck not (Megaton). Hell, you can't even kill the kids directly but you can sure roast em in nuclear fire.

[prideslayer]

Graphic sex and graphic violence are both frowned upon in media in our society, the sex moreso than the violence. When you combine them (rape), you have virtually nobody on your side. I don't think it's anything to get too amped up over though. They could certainly include graphic sex and graphic rape in the games if they wanted them to have an AO rating (which is, IMHO, appropriate).

 

That would seriously cut into their revenue though, and lest we forget, they are a business.

 

You'll have a hard time convincing game publishers to push an AO title in a popular franchise that they know will cut their sales by probably 80% or more simply due to a lack of distribution channels (no AO on steam or in any brick & mortar store), nevermind the people that won't buy it because they *don't* want the content.

 

You'll have an even harder time convincing anyone that such content should be allowed in games without the AO rating, to get around the first problem.

 

Honestly.. it's not a big deal as long as we modders are here to pick up the slack, and the engines continue to support modding. This last bit has me far more nervous. Skyrim is a clusterfuck and something tells me FO4 will be just as bad, if not worse.

[prideslayer]

What they did has nothing to do with xlovers or any adult stuff, it was just a dumb decision I'm sure. They switched over to using havok behaviors for everything, couldn't release the tools with the game due to not paying for the appropriate license (or none being available), and.. "didn't care."

 

There are tons of non-adult animations that use and benefit from being able to create your own animations, the sex mods are a very small part of it. It's irritating that they figured "good enough" and just released it that way, and that's what has me nervous, that they just... don't care enough to check that kind of stuff.

[Bravo34]

I forgot about Megaton,which as you pointed out has kids that you know live there,know their parents and know them,but you can just push the button and *poof*,gone.The only time a single fuck was given about that was in the japanese version(which only had it removed because of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.) which is understandable,but unnecessary.And in regards to making the mods,I cannot mod to save myself,I'd be more of an idea's person.(Which you already have an abundance of,all whom would be better at it than me.)

[Triratna]

Sex, violence, drugs, gambling, swearing.

 

But i'll be damned if i pass GTA.V

 

BACK TO LOS SANTOS! BABY!

[GECK.O]

I guess I understand about this issue.......

 

First, because the media don't own videogames industry, unlike the movie industry. The media can choose any topic they want to sold. With good writing skill, they can do anything. They can make you look bad or good. The can make someone famous, popular or not. They can demonizing a topic and then praising it. They can defend a criminal or cursing him. It is their decision to choose. And they already made the final decision to demonize sex in videogames as the topic, whatever you want to hear it or not.

 

Second, there are a lot of short thinking, ignorant, stupid people, that they think they are saints, while the rest of people are a bunch of sinners. A bunch of hypocrite! Yes, these people are exist. They usually watch and love the barely naked or complete nude scenes in movie. But cursing the nude scene in videogames and someone who watch it, just because they never play videogames.

 

Third, there are a shock and fear in our society, that the moral of the world is falling. Some people are shocked, that sex is starting to enter the videogames. Something that usually free and clean from sin, is now being gradually corrupted.

[GECK.O]

Sex' date=' violence, drugs, gambling, swearing.

 

But i'll be damned if i pass GTA.V

 

BACK TO LOS SANTOS! BABY!

[/quote']

 

May be you will disappointed with GTA V. Since the GTA IV, I feel R* starting to reduce that kind of topic and content. So it will happened for GTA V, even more.

 

Just like in the case of Fallout series, with Bethesda's Fallout 3.