Sexual Abuse and Video Games

[Daguy]

Yes, a thread sparked off by the new Tomb Raider, but more the horrific and immature way the gamign community as a whole has reacted.

 

I actually stayed out of it all and am only making this thread half heartedly and with vague interest at what the adult gaming community feels.

 

Disclamer: I have a kink for rape fantasy, I won't lie - however I abhore suffering and pain in real life, and feel terrible if someone is suffering. Recently a woman was raped in the UK because after a long time of pleading and no one helping, a young woman was told she could not got on a bus because she was 20p/a few cents short of the ticket fee. Many people were ine arshot and milled past, and no one, not even the bus driver himself, offered to pay the pittence she was short. This distant news story left me shaking with rage for most of the day because of the needless horror and disgusting apathy of the busdriver and other passangers. So, when I say i'm not looking at this from the point of view of a kink, and wanting to 'get off', i'm being serious.

 

So, on with the topic.

 

People have been outraged at how Lara, a young, beautiful and cultured young lady is -almost- raped by a thugish mercenary, before she managed to escape. The outcry has been amazing, and saddening in how... immature... it seems.

 

It is a serious topic to tackle, but also a realistic one. These things happen. And before anyone chips in that knowing it happens is enough, and we don't need to see it, I must point out that we don't. We see attempted rape, and a young woman escaping it. We also don't need to see violent and brutal murder, decapitations, torture, ritual sacrifice, burnings, horrific monsters and all other manner of things... and yet most or all of them are things we see and even take part in. Few say 'you don't need to see it'. And those that do are generally scorned.

 

It took long enough to get to the time where we could have sex scenes in games such as the Witcher 2, where films have had many times worse for almost half a century, and even then many developers are so used to being leapt on that in games like Mass Effect 3 people shower in underwear and wake up after a night of making love in that same underwear. Why are video games so much slower to mature when it coems ot storytelling? I'm in my mid-twenties. I'd like to have a 'truly' serious, mature and adult games market by the time I hit my early thirties. With stuff like this outcry that just isn't going to happen.

 

I was amazed at the Tomb Raider trailer. I thought they were going for a Uncharted style and more realized version of Lara, who was now a character as opposed to a sexualized avatar for Indiana Jones style adventures. She suffers, she feels, and she pushes through it. She is beaten, piereced, tumbles, falls, and almost raped... and yet she stands tall and pushes on to eventually be more than just a scared young student.

 

Other people of the general gaming public seem to have seen a young lady in distress, and rather than seeing an attempt at a mature and realistic situation playing out in a in video game so many are fighting to have taken seriously as a storytelling medium, they saw a perverted and wicked rape simulation intended for people to whack off to. Rather than seeing something from -practically any mainstream Book/TV series with a female lead- they saw Rapelay. Off the top of my head, even Buffy the Vampire Slayer had a scene where there is an attempted rape, and it got a hell of a lot further than what we saw in the trailer.

 

Now, serious stories in video games have likely taken a collective step back spanning years, because of an over reaction. I doubt that scene will even make it into the full game, let alone anything more or any sort of sexual danger for a woman in any big name game. I also see it as a bad thing - because women, and men too, are becoming entirely too confident and oblivious to real dangers these days, likely because of how society likes to hide such thinsg from their heroes and heroines. How many young ladies get blind drunk and pass out in dangerous places? Seeing the dangers of putting oneself where one is vulnerable can be a good and subtle lesson when its shown through a 'role model' experiancing it.

 

(Sorry for any repeated points or disjointed threads of thought. Left and came back to this on a tab, as I did other things. Like I say, i'm more interested in getting less reactionary views from those on this site than making any true poitn of my own.)

[Ark of Truth]

Shouldn't this be under off topic?

[Daguy]

Probobly, just seemed a general thing for an adult forum about video games.

 

Either way, I can delete and remake it if a mod requests.

 

Anything to add, or was that all?

[thesapien]

It does seem like a odd and immature thing to rage over, but I haven't seen anything on this rage you speak of. It would be a shame to have such a pivotal scene removed. That particular one is supposed to show how Lara came to be able to kill a person for the first time while also showing how hard it was on her, even if he deserved it. So I don't really see the scene being removed, but then I also haven't seen any backlash about it yet. Are you sure it's not just coming from kinky sites like another LL? Links?

[Daguy]

The Escapist for one. With their recent format change I can't really find it in me to figure it out and find any of the articles. There were a few, to the point that the developers themselves made a comment.

[Queen Bee]

Hang on, this is going to get complicated.

 

I like rape fantasy. It's fun to play with the concept of danger and violation, to feel either the rush of violating someone, or the thrill of being violated. It's hard to explain why I enjoy it, but I do. That said, I have never, nor would I ever, condone actual rape.

 

As a woman living in NYC, I am faced with the threat of rape on a daily basis. Late night beer run? Better take my rape whistle and mace. Night out on the town? Better keep an eye on my drinks. Walking to my car alone in a parking garage? Better find a friend to walk with me.

 

It's a fact of my life, a fact most men don't have to worry about. People with a penis don't have to wonder if that shadow is a man waiting to attack, or at least they don't have to worry as much. I'd equate it to being a minority, but that's not exactly right (and the last thing I want to do is spark a "women vs. minorities: who's got it worse!" argument), but it's in the same neighborhood.

 

I can't say for certain, but I have a strong suspicion that men aren't as constantly aware of their gender as women are. We're not allowed to forget we're women, or more specifically the version of women that your average Hollywood movie would have you believe exists.

 

Hollywood sees us as weak, pathetic and desperately in need of a man to save us. Either that, or a government trained/genetically engineered/vampire/immortal/mutant uber chick with badass kung fu and an arsenal to rival Neo's. There's no middle ground. We're either pussies, or we're freaks. And those two extremes tell a lot about how American society views its women.

 

Take the Silent Hill movie (please!). In it, they changed the main character of Harry Mason to a woman, Rose, because in the words of director Christophe Gans:

 

"It quickly became clear however Harry never acted like a masculine character. He was constantly dizzy, fainting, talking to himself, screaming and in fact was very vulnerable. We didn't want to betray the nature of the game by changing the character's feelings and motivations, so we felt it was better to change to a female protagonist and retain all those important qualities. I don't want people to think that I have been "politically correct" because we changed Harry into Rose. There is no political correctness in Silent Hill." (source)

 

And what did Rose do in that movie? She ran, she screamed, she hid, she made frantic phone calls back to her husband for help, and she didn't once defend herself. (no really, not once! go see it if you don't believe me!) And this is supposed to be a mother out to rescue her own daughter? Bitch, please! If it were my kid I'd be kicking so much ass donkeys would be put on the endangered species list.

 

That's how we're seen. It happens over and over again in most forms of media (books excluded, because hi intelligent writers!). Hell, I defy anyone to show me a single strong female character to come out of any movie or TV show in the last twenty years that isn't based on a one of these horrible stereotypes. Oh, how I long for the days of Ellen Ripley...

 

It seems rape is all over the place these days. Flip over to Lifetime, women be gettin' raped all the damn time up on that channel! It's thrown into teen dramas to make it a "very special episode". It's tossed around by gamers like it's nothing. "Man, we totally got raped in MW3 last night!" It's pasted into a movie to give a weak woman motivation for becoming strong. As if women need that kind of a reason. In a weird way, that's sexist too. Because it's still implying we need a man to make us strong, just in a negative connotation rather than a positive one.

 

I'm not saying rape can't be used in a story without being sexist. Far from it! There are plenty of good stories that have rape scenes that contribute to the story, rather than treat it like a bone thrown to a greedy audience. But sadly these are seeming few and far between these days.

 

And then we come to video games, and this is where it gets sticky. Most people still view video games as kid's stuff. Like most forms of animation, video games are seen as a toy for children that, upon entering adulthood, should be left behind. Nevermind that most gamers today are old enough to vote! But it is this viewpoint that leads people to the knee jerk reaction when faced with an adult issue, any adult issue, put forth in a triple A title they might be inclined to buy their ten year old for Christmas. After all, it's a video game, and video games are for kids.

 

Remember when people were flipping out over Mass Effect's "sex" scene? Barely visible body parts and no control over the sexual activity at all. In a movie this would barely register as "PG", but put it in a video game? That thing that's supposed to be for kids? Yeah, rampage time.

 

So that's their mindset when we come to Lara Croft, an icon of females in video games for the past two decades. And she's being threatened with rape. You have to understand, in the minds of the people bitching about this, the people who lump all video games together as kid's stuff, it's exactly the same as if someone threatened Mario with castration. They don't get that this game isn't for children. They can't grasp that concept yet.

 

But you know what? Fuck those people. If video games will ever be taken seriously as an adult medium, we're going to have to ignore those voices that cry foul every time we stray across other people's boundaries. If we're going to show the world video games can be for adults, then we're just going to have to make video games for adults, whiny parents be damned.

 

Because video games are a valid medium in which to explore these aspects of humanity, and they can do it in ways that movies and TV can't. We can do it maturely, giving the subject matter the deepest respect and consideration it deserves. And that's the key there, respect. We can do it right, we can use it as a means to tell a story and not as a reason to build a sexist stereotype or a way to appeal to the male demographic in a rather sleazy way. If we do that, then no one can complain.

 

Well, I mean they can complain. And they will. Boy howdy, they will! But ultimately their complaints will amount to nothing more than the same tired objections made by every generation about the next when something makes them uncomfortable. And those people go away eventually.

 

So yeah. Knock Lara around, threaten her with rape. Make it a part of her, deepen her story and strengthen her character. Give us a reason to talk about it, explore it and examine it, question it and debate it. Just don't let it define her and we'll be okay.

 

Incidentally, I'd have gone a step further and made that scene interactive and first person. Make every man playing that game see it through a woman's eyes for once. I'm under no delusion that it would change a man's view on the subject, and I'm sure there's plenty who would still get off on it (me included? Maybe?). But hell. It couldn't hurt.

[afa]

I thought the bigger issue isn't "there is a rape scene in tomb raider" but rather one of the developer said something along the lines of they want to create a character (Lara) who the player wants to protect.

 

That was the bigger controversy I heard.

[Queen Bee]

I thought the bigger issue isn't "there is a rape scene in tomb raider" but rather one of the developer said something along the lines of they want to create a character (Lara) who the player wants to protect.

 

That was the bigger controversy I heard.

 

Oh. Well that's just asinine.

 

(p.s. my points still stand)

[DeadSomething]

[...]

 

Incidentally' date=' I'd have gone a step further and made that scene interactive and first person. Make every man playing that game see it through a woman's eyes for once. I'm under no delusion that it would change a man's view on the subject, and I'm sure there's plenty who would still get off on it (me included? Maybe?). But hell. It couldn't hurt.

[/quote']

 

indeed.

this is actually used in therapy for sexual assaulters/rapers.

they get to play game rapescenes while sometimes being the raper and sometimes being the victim. and there are successes in therapy.

[Queen Bee]

There's rape games used in therapy? Someone needs to smuggle them out to the general public!

[DeadSomething]

There's rape games used in therapy? Someone needs to smuggle them out to the general public!

 

omg i bet they wouldnt even be reaching the old DOOM graphics

so everything here on LL will be better.

[Queen Bee]

Yeah, but something is better than nothing. Hell, a few years back I was making a game on the old RPGMaker2003 where you could be a serial killer/rapist with your own dungeon and torture chamber. Maybe someday I'll blow the dust off that and finish it.

[thesapien]

Even if it is a game for teens, all the more reason to include the scene. Protecting kids from harsh realities postpones maturing.

[Daguy]

Thank you for your initial post QueenBee. It was what I was goign for, but you put it better, and made a stronger case being a woman yourself.

[Guest]

I really don't see why adding this kind of thing to video games would be a bad thing however, whether it's shown or implied that sort of content warrants that that game be rated M or AO. There could be an exception for it to be rated lower (if the act is implied).

 

People who've played Dragon Age: Origins will know of the broodmother, and what the process is for making one. The "poem" that is recited has a part that can be interpreted as "darkspawn rape female captives". Those words are never actually said, but it's implied. However, the word "rape" itself is said several times throughout the game.

One thing that confuses me is that I don't remember any controversy over that game and it's sex scenes and such. I'm getting off topic though.

 

I'm also pretty sick of the old, tired argument against games with sexual content: "if my son/daughter plays that game they will be exposed to inappropriate content! My son/daughter will be negatively influenced and impacted because of YOU! "

Seriously? Okay first off, the game has a rating for a reason. If a game is rated "M" or even "AO" or "Pegi 18" or whatever, then it's obviously not directed to a younger audience. The back of every game lists things like violence, blood, gore, and even sexual content and they don't do it for the heck of it. It's designed so that parents know what their kid is buying.

 

Secondly, the only person you can blame is whoever bought the damn game in the first place. It is not the developers fault that your son was able to get their hands on a game with adult material on it and is "negatively influenced" or "emotionally scarred!" (oh boy). And even if you, the parent, didn't buy the game, it is still your responsibility. You should know what your child is exposed to or is playing. This does not mean doing constant room checks for adult rated games or playboy magazines, but you should have a general idea.

 

The third thing is that you can't keep your precious baby "safe" from everything forever. If they want to play an M rated game then they're going to do their damned hardest to play one. Just sit down with your kid and explain to them about these kinds of things and they'll be better off because of it.

 

At any rate, how does this tie into sexual abuse in video games? Well, again, I support them and I feel that they have their benefits (other than just watching it of course). If it's an "M, AO, Pegi 18" or whatever kind of game, then there's no reason for outbursts or hate against it. These games are designed for adults, and if your child gets their hands on it then it's not the fault of the developer, it's yours.

 

That is all.

[Queen Bee]

Thank you for your initial post QueenBee. It was what I was goign for' date=' but you put it better, and made a stronger case being a woman yourself.

[/quote']

 

Thanks hon. I tend to get a bit soap boxy when it comes to stuff like this, so I was a little worried I came off heavy handed. It's not my intention to sound like I'm outraged. I'm not. I don't care if there's rape in fiction, though I am tired of seeing it used so often, and poorly. The thing that really grinds my gears is seeing such a casual attitude towards rape in any place other than video games. As if there's a fucking difference.

 

And The Mad God, I agree that the majority of responsibility lies with the parents. Obviously if it's a console game (and it is), the parents would theoretically be able to supervise by keeping the TV in a common area. I'd personally set up rules along those lines, that video game usage must be supervised. But only up to a certain age. After that, they're going to be curious and there's little I can do to stop that. They'll be hopping online and looking up porn, or playing violent PC games. I won't buy them any of that, but you don't have to pay for that kind of stuff online these days. I can only talk to them and make sure they understand.

 

Education is the key here. I'd sit my kids down and explain to them in no uncertain terms what rape is, how it effects people and how awful it is. Trying to shield them from it only ensures they have no mature understanding of it once they hit adulthood. That can actually cause rapists, not prevent them.

 

FFS people. It's really not that hard.

[DeadSomething]

I really don't see why adding this kind of thing to video games would be a bad thing however' date=' whether it's shown or implied that sort of content warrants that that game be rated M or AO. There could be an exception for it to be rated lower (if the act is implied).

[...']

The third thing is that you can't keep your precious baby "safe" from everything forever. If they want to play an M rated game then they're going to do their damned hardest to play one. Just sit down with your kid and explain to them about these kinds of things and they'll be better off because of it.

 

At any rate, how does this tie into sexual abuse in video games? Well, again, I support them and I feel that they have their benefits (other than just watching it of course). If it's an "M, AO, Pegi 18" or whatever kind of game, then there's no reason for outbursts or hate against it. These games are designed for adults, and if your child gets their hands on it then it's not the fault of the developer, it's yours.

 

That is all.

 

sure thing - anyway every child will someday be old enough to buy those games legally in every store, so why the heck do parents keep those games a secret from their children?!

like if you teach your kid to never ever eat anything with sugar - that kid will explode from having eaten too much sugar at the very day he/she is old enough to buy his own stuff and eat sugar.

 

"prohibition creates perversion."

[Kamen Rider Kuuga]

If you simply include sexual abuse into anything just to be "edgy" or "shocking" and it has no real context to the plot, the characters and is essentially forgotten five minutes after the fact, then what's the point? it would have been the same without that, so you're just attracting controversy to sell more product.

 

You filthy whore.

 

NOW, if it actually does add something to the story, if it has a long term effect on the plot, even if it's minor and it just creeps up now and again, if it helps build the character(s), be it makes them stronger/weaker/slowly causes them to snap, then it has a place and I have no problems with it being in there.

 

This reminds me of the rage I saw one guy spout when he saw Modern Warfare/Call of Duty/what the fuck ever in which some terrorists set off a bomb while a kid was in frame, showing the kid being consumed by the explosion. He was rambling on and on and on and on about how it wasn't needed and blah blah, he works with kids so it's a soft spot... and I just wanted him to shut up and realize that;

 

1) They're terrorists. They don't fucking care who it is; the kid was a heretic to them.

2) It's a classic example of making you hate the enemy when they kill a child or an animal, to the point where you want to kill them, as it's an FPS.

 

So it works within the context of the story and it's perfectly fine, the only thing is he brought his own baggage into the thing. And that's the only reason why people get pissed over an ALMOST rape; their own baggage and the cultural pressure to instantly denounce such things and demonize whatever contains it.

 

It's like sex in the US; we're progressively getting more open about it, but there's still a vocal majority that wants to demonize the open exploration and even the mere mention of it because it's been so deeply ingrained in so many previous generations that it's wrong and we should be ashamed for thinking of, much less viewing and talking so openly about a natural biological function.

[DeadSomething]

[...]

This reminds me of the rage I saw one guy spout when he saw Modern Warfare/Call of Duty/what the fuck ever in which some terrorists set off a bomb while a kid was in frame' date=' showing the kid being consumed by the explosion. He was rambling on and on and on and on about how it wasn't needed and blah blah, he works with kids so it's a soft spot... and I just wanted him to shut up and realize that;

 

1) They're terrorists. They don't fucking care who it is; the kid was a heretic to them.

2) It's a classic example of making you hate the enemy when they kill a child or an animal, to the point where you want to kill them, as it's an FPS.

 

So it works within the context of the story and it's perfectly fine, the only thing is he brought his own baggage into the thing. And that's the only reason why people get pissed over an ALMOST rape; their own baggage and the cultural pressure to instantly denounce such things and demonize whatever contains it.

 

It's like sex in the US; we're progressively getting more open about it, but there's still a vocal majority that wants to demonize the open exploration and even the mere mention of it because it's been so deeply ingrained in so many previous generations that it's wrong and we should be ashamed for thinking of, much less viewing and talking so openly about a natural biological function.

[/quote']

 

'bout damn right.

anyway, most times when i played FPS games about war, i missed something: "collateral damage".

even the US forces sometimes kill civilians.

be it by "weapon malfunction", "human fault", "they were in the wrong place when the firefight started" or just "trigger-happy soldiers".

there isnt and has never been any war without civil casualties.

so i find it violence-glorifying to show how efficient your army works (if in a movie or game) and to show how the enemy is killing civilians, but your men never ever in the slightest not even "push" a civilian out of the way.

this depictures a completely wrong image of how war is.

every good war-movie is an anti-war-movie and shows how redicilously ruthless and barbaric war is and how those who never wanted war (=the majority of the civilians) have to suffer when war breaks loose.

 

well, sorry for letting this carry me away, but it makes me a little upset.

so the same applies to rape and consensual sex in movies and games.

completely censoring it is equal to pretending such things never happen and maybe even never happened.

first of all: sex is something absolutely natural and there's nothing to be ashamed of in having sex. so why not show it?

if its not shown often enough, kids grow up thinking sex is something evil, forbidden, sin, sick.

this might in many cases lead to sexually criminal minds.

about rape, i think its a big dropkick to the face of every rape victim everytime this topic is either being tabooed or depictured belittingly, by not showing how a person might suffer from that trauma.

(well some people that i got to know did cope too well for my understanding, or they just didnt want to let me see how bad they did...)

 

after all its important that this element isnt abused as an advertising strategy, which i can only look down on, because thats just ruthless and tasteless.

 

thanks for your patience

[Kashked]

After all' date=' it's a video game, and video games are for kids.

[/quote']

 

I agree that that is probably a very large part of it, however I would add another point as well, in a movie we only watch the action, we have no control over it. Even if we don't control the sex itself in the few (mainstream) games that include sex (like Mass Effect or The Wither for example) we do control wheter we want our character to do it or not. I think that is part of why it is seen as 'more mature' than the equivalent sex-scene in a movie would be.

[Queen Bee]

Well, my point was that these games are not for children. Of course a game with sex you control is more mature, it's for adults. The concept that such a thing is anything but a toy for children is all but lost on a lot of people. I seriously wonder why. Back when video games were young, the graphics were cartoony and juvenile and I assumed that was the culprit. But what about now, when graphics are far more realistic? What will it take? When we finally achieve a level of graphics that are completely indistinguishable from real life, when a dead body looks like a real dead body, when a pair of breasts looks like a real pair of breasts, will these people still call video games kids' stuff? I seriously wouldnt be surprised.

[Kashked]

Another point is that a lot of big stores in the US wont sell games rated above M, or R, or whatever. I don't really know which is which in the PEGI system...

Aside from that games featuring certain elements are even banned in certain countries, Australia is apperently one of the worst in that regard...

 

All in all means that it is less profitable to make games with mature content.

[DeadSomething]

definitely a point to regard if being a developer, but shouldnt it still be the mature citizen to decide if he/she wants to see it?!

 

so why does everyone take those censorship-laws for granted and unchangeable?!

let's just go out there and convince our governments to adjust those laws so still child-abuse is a topic which will - if glorified - get a movie or book or game banned forever, but some sexual and maybe violence topics may be shown to the audience which wants to see it.

 

strangely in the US some violent movies are shown age 6+ but the kissing scenes got censored... what a morale.

[deathparade]

From what i heard you can practicly take out the free country from the US

[Kashked]

definitely a point to regard if being a developer' date=' but shouldnt it still be the mature citizen to decide if he/she wants to see it?!

 

[/quote']

 

Well, we are free to see it, it's just that no one, or atleast very few, produce anything mature, since it's generally low profitability.

 

And age-limitations isn't censorship, although I agree with you that they need to get their priorities straightened out.