Infuriating Camera Issue

[Jexsam]

I am encountering an infuriating issue that no amount of updates, rollbacks, or mod ticking/unticking seems to want to fix. I'm desperate at this point and am one step away from just nuking the install and rebuilding since literally nothing else seems to want to fix this.

 

This won't be a very elegant description of the issue but here goes.

 

Sometimes, with no discernible rhyme or reason, when pressing tab to bring up the menu, if I am in third person camera, the camera will snap to a certain distance from the player. Further, and most irritatingly, when using the tfc command in third person, the camera will sometimes snap to that distance and rebind the camera to mouselook, freezing my ability to scroll in or out and rendering the character unable to attack. The effect it similar to what happens if you use a pose ring to enable a pose idle while in free camera, but my checking/unchecking my pose mods made no difference. Finally, and the rarest symptom, when scrolling in and popping from third person to first person, the camera will snap back out to third person, again at the same uniform distance. This issue is periodic - there are times when the camera behaves exactly as it should, and other times it behaves as outlined here. I have been unable to spot an active effect that could be causing it. Again, there is no clear rhyme or reason to this issue - it will plague me for a moment, up to a few minutes if I'm unlucky, then just go away for a while.

 

Given the stated similarity to what happens when firing an idle with a pose mod ring, my gut instinct was assuming it was something that was applying an effect to the player, so I started by disabling Creature Framework, Schlongs of Skyrim, Sexlab itself, all my pose mods, and probably several others I can't remember right now. I went through proper uninstall processes for each. The effect remained present both on old saves and new, cleaner saves. It exists across all my save profiles, so whatever it is is something I've been using since the start. I have tried new and old versions of several mods, all to no avail.

 

This is my full load order.

Active Mod Files:

 

00 Skyrim.esm
01 Update.esm
02 Dawnguard.esm
03 HearthFires.esm
04 Dragonborn.esm
05 SexLab.esm [Version 1.62]
06 CreatureFramework.esm [Version 1.1.0]
07 Schlongs of Skyrim - Core.esm
08 ApachiiHair.esm
09 ApachiiHairMales.esm
0A SGHairPackBase.esm
0B JSwords.esm
0C HmmWhatToWear.esm
0D RSkyrimChildren.esm
0E HighResTexturePack01.esp
0F HighResTexturePack02.esp
10 HighResTexturePack03.esp
11 ethereal_elven_overhaul.esp
12 caribougone.esp
13 JKs Skyrim.esp
14 Prometheus_No_snow_Under_the_roof.esp [Version 2.3]
15 MorthalSwampTreesCleaned.esp
16 Skyrim Immersive Creatures.esp [Version v6.5.2b]
17 Elemental Destruction.esp
18 Skyrim Immersive Creatures - DLC2.esp [Version v6.5.2a]
19 CornerofTheSkyrimNoNPC.esp
1A Immersive Weapons.esp
1B FM_FollowerMod.esp
1C Personalized Music v 6.0.esp
1D breezehomeshadowfix.esp
1E specimen jars.esp
1F RaceMenu.esp
20 RaceMenuPlugin.esp
21 SOS - Smurf Average Addon.esp
22 SOS - VectorPlexus Regular Addon.esp
23 SOSRaceMenu.esp
24 SkyUI.esp
25 XPMSE.esp
26 dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Realistic.esp
27 NB-Scars.esp
28 SoSFC-LF.esp
29 1nivWICCloaks.esp [Version 2.4]
2A BDVanillaCritters.esp
2B Bikini-MTM.esp
2C DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp
2D DragonCarvedArmorSet.esp
2E El_WayfarersCoat.esp
2F FNIS.esp
30 Halo's Poser.esp
++ Hoodless Archmage Robe.esp
31 KS Hairdo's.esp
32 LindsHumanEyes.esp
33 MarkedForDeath Restored.esp
34 MoreNastyCritters.esp
35 SGHairPackAIO.esp
36 SLAnimLoader.esp
37 SOS - Leito Addon.esp
38 SexLabNudeCreatures.esp
39 SexLabNudeCreaturesDB.esp
3A SexLabNudeCreaturesDG.esp
3B Skyrim_Strap_Ons.esp
3C SlaveTats.esp
3D Tiwa44_Minidresses_Standalone.esp
3E Tiwa44_Minidresses_Standalone_DG&DB.esp
3F UNP Petrovna.esp
40 bodyscars.esp
41 cpkinokopose.esp
42 3j_Animations.esp [Version 1.2.1]
43 SexLabMatchMaker.esp [Version 7]
44 ColdharbourDaedra.esp
45 WestWindAssault.esp
46 UIExtensions.esp
47 AddItemMenu2.esp
48 AsharaPrinceOfTheWoods.esp
49 NUHairstyles.esp
4A Northgirl.esp
4B RobedSteelPlateArmor.esp
4C SAP.esp
4D Schlongs of Skyrim.esp
4E Unique Uniques.esp [Version 1.3]
4F Insanity's Pale Blade.esp [Version 1.0]
50 Lore Weapon Expansion.esp [Version 1.4a]
51 StormLord.esp
52 No Snow Under the Roof - JK's Skyrim.esp
53 PrvtI_HeavyArmory.esp
54 UNP Spice Gear.esp
55 JSwordsDistributionBalancePlugin.esp
56 ShiverFrostCottage.esp
57 Halamshiral - no NPC.esp
58 LegendaryRings_Eng.esp
59 Ducks and Swans.esp
5A HF_Lakeview_AvantGarden.esp
5B Karthwasten.esp [Version 1.0]
5C BoundArmors.esp
5D Vellamo.esp
5E WATER Plants.esp
5F OrdinaryWeapons_ENG.esp
60 survivor_armor.esp
61 ValsCraftingMeltdownAlpha.esp
62 No Helmets Required.esp
63 Unexpected Blades.esp
64 headtrack.esp
65 FlansEyesForSkrim.esp [Version 1.5]
66 Equippable Tomes.esp
67 xivilai.esp
68 portal2mod.esp
69 Tirashan.esp
6A vMYC_MeetYourCharacters.esp
6B SteelPlateBikini.esp
6C battledress armor.esp
6D Equipping Overhaul.esp
6E DragonboneBarbarianArmor.esp
6F BandedIronBikini.esp
70 DragonBoneBikini.esp
71 SteelBikini.esp
72 Wolfbikini.esp
73 Raven Witch Armor.esp
74 Ghorza's Armor.esp
75 Lady of Death.esp
76 WestWindMisfit.esp
77 SSAssist_Tools.esp
78 Dr_Bandolier.esp
79 EmpyreanCS.esp
7A EmpyreanWarpaints.esp
7B FreckleMania.esp
7C HTongues.esp
7D LindsMarksmageGarb.esp
7E Merta Assassin Tattoos.esp
7F NerniesArmorPack.esp
80 PrvtIRings.esp
81 Public Poser.esp
82 RSChildren - Complete.esp
83 RaceMenuMorphsUUNP.esp
84 SLALAnimObj.esp
85 SLAL_AnimationsByLeito.esp
86 SidiousSummoning.esp
87 Skyrim Tropical Style Suit (UNPB Standalone).esp
88 StormcloakHeroGear.esp
89 TDNEquipableHorns.esp
8A TelMithryn-Magical-Clutter-1.0.esp
8B Tembtra Thief Armor.esp
8C The Eyes Of Beauty - Elves Edition.esp
8D Tribunal Maskes by Zairaam.esp
8E Ursine Armor Pack.esp
8F playercelllocationinfo.esp
90 zzArmormashups.esp
91 HDT Piercingsets.esp
92 WulfPoser.esp
93 CumMesh.esp
94 JaxonzEnhGrab.esp
95 ShellBondage - Bombshell.esp
96 TropicalIsland.esp
97 Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp [Version 3.1.5a]
98 SOS - VectorPlexus Muscular Addon.esp
99 Bashed Patch, 0.esp

 

 

As of this posting the only mod I can see that I could think to uninstall and try is Follower Mod. I'll report back in the unlikely event that works, but I don't anticipate a good result. In the meantime, any insight would be wonderful. I really don't want to go through the hassle of rebuilding these characters a second time in as many months, but if no answer presents itself, I absolutely will.

 

LOOT has been used several times, so load order shouldn't be the issue.

 

I'm at my wit's end here.

[Andy14]

If I have problems with camera (rare, but happens), then chop wood - animation solves the problem.

[Jexsam]

If I have problems with camera (rare, but happens), then chop wood - animation solves the problem.

I appreciate your suggestion, but my camera issues are very common. Unsticking the camera alleviates the symptom but doesn't solve the underlying issue - why is my camera behaving oddly, and how do I correct the underlying cause? This is what I'm trying to figure out.

 

You actually reminded me of another symptom of the problem I forgot to mention, though!

 

The camera snap issue also occurs when using crafting stations like enchanting tables and forges. The camera will snap away from the usual view and once again to the same fixed distance from the player. This, like the camera snap from opening the menu, is harmless, but undoubtedly related to the TFC snap issue.

[Andy14]

I do not know where the reason for camera problem is.

I guess SkyUI, as it happens also without mods with animations (Sexlab etc.).

 

Sometimes I can not in first person view - camera is behind the pc.

 

Because I have not found a reason, but a way to fix it.

(Animation with automatic change in third person view - eg chop wood)

 

Better chop wood, than load old save.

[Jexsam]

I'm not ready to call this solved yet but I seem to have made some headway.

 

I went back to one of my earliest suspects, Creature Framework. What I did was perhaps the most basic thing imaginable - I uninstalled it, made a clean save, and reinstalled it. I've done this on two different save profiles. There were some hiccups (I encountered a crash in one of the profiles and had to use a script cleaner to stop it so I could create a stable clean save) but results are tentatively favorable. No odd camera behavior. Given that two distinct save profiles both show improvement, this is definitely encouraging, but I've had the issue seem to go away before only to come back with more extensive play, so I need to test more profiles and play the game more to call it done.

 

I'm gonna feel mighty stupid if a clean save is all it takes to fix this, but I'd rather feel stupid and fix it than be stupid and nuke an entire install over something a clean save could fix.

 

Will report back after more extensive tests.

[Jexsam]

A clean install of Creature Framework seems to lessen the issue temporarily, but the results are inconsistent. Selune and Kallista's profiles showed no sign and a single instance, respectively, of the issue. Eldawen, however, displayed moderate problems even after a clean save and script cleanse. Raelyndreth seemed to show no signs of the issue even without a clean save, so I wonder if I may be barking up the wrong tree entirely or if that was just a coincidentally good session.

 

I'll need to play a game extensively without Creature Framework enabled to confirm root cause. Shouldn't be too much of an issue to test, I've still got a few characters yet to be remade. Will report back with information as it becomes available.

 

This is really irritating.

[Andy14]

Maybe it makes your search easier.

I have Installed to test this problem a long time ago: SKSE, SkyUI and RaceMenu - just this. (I never use creatures(: ).

No mods with animations - none (as I wrote).

 

And nevertheless (very rarely) this error happens.

 

I am looking forward to your test result

[Jexsam]

Okay, I can finally report that uninstalling Creature Framework cleanly has made no difference.

 

I am completely at a loss. Doesn't anyone have any insight?

[Andy14]

Too bad to hear this.

If you find something out, you can send me a PM - please.

It is avoidable (as I had described), but it annoys me not to know the cause. Please send a PM if you have new results.

 

By the way: I said it is not Creature Framework. I have CF not installed in and yet - very, very rare, but this phenomenon can happen

[Jexsam]

Honestly I just went ahead and completely uninstalled and reinstalled the game. I'm not sure yet if the problem is actually dealt with since I'm scared to sink any time into a game just to see if it crops back up, but in just poking around and seeing if my installed mods work, so far it's good. Apparently, whatever mistake I made last time, I haven't made again. Hopefully.

 

I wish I had better news.

[Jexsam]

It's back.

 

It's. Fucking. Back.

 

Extremely few and far between right now - it's only happened twice - but it's back.

 

I'm about to just fucking quit this game, I swear to god. All I want to do is take some fucking screenshots. I spent all that money on parts so I could play this game and many other better. And now it's all just spitting in my face. Nothing but a huge waste of time, effort, and money, all of it.

 

I don't have the time or energy to reinstall again and play one. Mod. At. A. Time. Until I can be sure the problem is not present or pinpoint what mod makes it pop up. I've got nearly 150 mods on a barely complete reinstall. I can't do it. One of the few goddamn things I can keep coming back to and enjoy doing is just flipping me the bird. Goddamnit! God fucking damnit!

[D_ManXX2]

It has nothing todo with creature frame work. i have not seen answered but did you edit your ini files in any way ?? especially anything related to camera ?? 

[Jexsam]

I have not.

 

I don't want to say much right now else I jinx it but I may have found my problem. I'm trying not to get my hopes up, it's still really early, but I did manage a screenshot session without a single instance of the camera issue. Only spent about half an hour on it, need more time, but if the issue turns out to be what I think it is, I'm gonna kick myself. I'll report back when I know more.

 

Talos guide me...

[Jexsam]

My tests have been promising but I need to know from more experienced users if I might be barking up the wrong tree again...

 

 

Is there any reason XPMSE.esp would be affecting my camera, or causing any effects that would affect the camera?

 

Testing shows that inside 15 minutes, with XPMSE.esp enabled, the camera will repeat the undesired snapping/locking behavior. Disabling the esp has no negative effects and allows me at least half an hour of screenshooting time without the issue cropping up. Is this coincidence?

 

I'll be doing more testing in the meantime. Now that I've got approximate timestamps to work with, I'm no longer just taking shots in the dark. Testing will be much easier.

[Andy14]

As I said before, I installed SKSE, RaceMenu and SkyUI.

So no XPMSE (skeletal yes, esp no), no animations, thus also no creatures.

My guess is SkyUi - the current version, as well as the version before. Just my guess.

[Naked Ekans]

I believe this is caused by XPMSE. I remember guk reported something similar a while back.

[yatol]

Testing shows that inside 15 minutes, with XPMSE.esp enabled, the camera will repeat the undesired snapping/locking behavior. Disabling the esp has no negative effects and allows me at least half an hour of screenshooting time without the issue cropping up. Is this coincidence?

 

shout on something, surrender, sexlab camera shortcut or tfc and wait for the surrender blabla to popup

when you will be able to move again, try to attack or open your inventory

defeat took control of the camera, did his stuff, and disabled a standing still package (or whatever it is) when done

tfc is still running, its standing still package got overwrite by defeat, but not the rest

if you save and load the same, that won't change anything, tfc packages are still running

 

same can happen during killmove, or if you press wrong shortcut and that one load something that overwrite killmove stuff

tfc 1 then sexlab shortcut, or sexlabshortcut then tfc, or sexlab then tfc 1, or tfc tfc 1...

it will get back to normal by overwriting killmove stuff with tfc stuff, that will get unload when quitting tfc mode

 

if you press the wrong key during tfc, and that key is a shortkey to something that overwrite parts of tfc, will be the same

 

there's also some stuff that can happen while you just stand there, night critters appear at night, day critters appear at night, npc go there at 21h, vampire spawn at night...

[Docuwal]

I know this topic is 9 months old, but did you managed to get it fixed? I've been having this problem since forever. Tried everything, even installing the game again, but nothing worked :/

[Guest]

My tests have been promising but I need to know from more experienced users if I might be barking up the wrong tree again...

 

 

Is there any reason XPMSE.esp would be affecting my camera, or causing any effects that would affect the camera?

 

Testing shows that inside 15 minutes, with XPMSE.esp enabled, the camera will repeat the undesired snapping/locking behavior. Disabling the esp has no negative effects and allows me at least half an hour of screenshooting time without the issue cropping up. Is this coincidence?

 

I'll be doing more testing in the meantime. Now that I've got approximate timestamps to work with, I'm no longer just taking shots in the dark. Testing will be much easier.

Try nuking your load order, then start a new game with the mods present but not activated. Add them one by one (with dependencies, ofc) to see what the problem mod is.

 

 

I had an annoying stutter problem and by doing this I determined it was "Dynamic Things" causing the problem.

[Jexsam]

I know this topic is 9 months old, but did you managed to get it fixed? I've been having this problem since forever. Tried everything, even installing the game again, but nothing worked :/

I'm copying a response to a PM here so anyone else who happens across this thread knows what's up.

 

~~~

 

I have good news and bad news.

 

The good news is, I did track down the source of the issue. The bad news is, it's something in the XPMSE.esp causing the issue, and the only way to permanently remove the problem is to remove the esp load a save from before you installed it.

 

I don't know exactly why the problem occurs, though. My theory is it has to do with a cloak spell XPMSE.esp uses to allow custom weapon placement on the player character, such as having a one-handed sword sheathed on your back. But I don't know how to test that.

 

To be clear, it's not the XPMSE skeleton causing the issue, it's the esp that comes with it. You can still use and enjoy the skeleton, you just can't use the .esp, so you lose out on the weapon placements and scale-able bones in RaceMenu.