Devious Devices Framework Development/Beta

[RegisteredUser]

On 7/31/2018 at 8:15 PM, Collygon said:

The anal hook version was an extra version I added post the non-hook version. While I understand the hook would be easier to remove, there are certain technical limitations to your request. The arm offset wouldn't be difficult to create, however making an alternate offset would require an entirely new animation set (this would be the case for making the Waitress pose and/or adding slack). While I wouldn't be opposed to that, I actually lack the resources in making a full animation set (blender has it's own set of problems in Skyrim stuff with NIFs, HKXs, etc...). I can make the struggle, horny, orgasm, etc animations, but Supertin is the one making the animation set (replace the walking, sneaking, combat, etc animations). Basically, they would be considered as 2 entirely different devices. There are only so many slots available for devices, and it might not be worth it to have my device take up two of them. It's not my call to make.

Thanks for the explanation! I'm clueless about this kind of stuff so it's appreciated.

 

The takeaway for me is that you need a new animation set as soon as some part of the body is positioned differently? For example: take the existing DD armbinder, but move the hands up towards the neck instead of having the arms straight down (a kind of reverse prayer pose). Assuming you change nothing beyond the position of the lower arms, which IIRC don't move during the struggle animations, does this new device still need its own animation slots? Or could it just use the armbinder set because the bones that are moved by the animations didn't change?

 

(Or am I perhaps thinking about this all wrong? Who knows :p)

[bm2x]

I'm having a problem:  it seems DD initializes and runs but errors out because there's no available animation slots?

 

I've run loot and FNIS and everything is looking okay, but I don't understand the error?

[Collygon]

22 hours ago, RegisteredUser said:

Thanks for the explanation! I'm clueless about this kind of stuff so it's appreciated.

 

The takeaway for me is that you need a new animation set as soon as some part of the body is positioned differently? For example: take the existing DD armbinder, but move the hands up towards the neck instead of having the arms straight down (a kind of reverse prayer pose). Assuming you change nothing beyond the position of the lower arms, which IIRC don't move during the struggle animations, does this new device still need its own animation slots? Or could it just use the armbinder set because the bones that are moved by the animations didn't change?

 

(Or am I perhaps thinking about this all wrong? Who knows :p)

You have it right. Each device needs it's own animation set to accommodate the armature offset. Even if we just moved the lower arms, an entire new set would have to be created for that offset. Whenever a new device is added that wouldn't work with an existing one, a whole new animation set is needed. So yes, a whole new set would be needed for the device you described. Additionally, new struggle, horny, out of breath, and orgasm animations would need to be made to. Basically, it would not use any of the original armbinder animations, even though only the lower arms were moved. That is the reason that making a separate set for two versions of the same device just isn't worth it. Also, for a "consumer" benefit, it frees up for room for more brand new devices using different sets!  

[Kimy]

On 8/1/2018 at 4:36 PM, bm2x said:

I'm having a problem:  it seems DD initializes and runs but errors out because there's no available animation slots?

 

I've run loot and FNIS and everything is looking okay, but I don't understand the error?

You need to initialize SexLab, save, and reload the game.

[bm2x]

5 hours ago, Kimy said:

You need to initialize SexLab, save, and reload the game.

...and if the same thing happens?

[CheddarTrauma]

Since the Removed unneeded AA definitions GitHub commit there have been numerous FNIS debug messages of "DEFINITION MISSING"

Could this be due to the behavior files not being updated?

 

Spoiler

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:44

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:6

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:34

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:33

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:35

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:1 group:48

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:44

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:6

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:34
FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:33
FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:35

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:51

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:18

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:8

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:52
FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:48

FNIS aa GetGroupBaseValueFNIS - Mod/Group DEFINITION MISSING (not included by FNIS generator) mod: DeviousDevices modID:2 group:12

 

[Reesewow]

Usage report for the DDi Github dev version as of Aug 14 - last commit "12 new bound SL animations added by Spacehamster".  This is on a save game directly updated from the live version of DDi - not a clean save or new game (possibly related to bug reports).

 

Went to get the dev version for the AA slot fix, and was pleasantly suprised to see some new animations had been added to the dev version.  Thanks to @_SpaceHamster_ for the new animations - the ones I managed to trigger looked excellent (cowgirl armbinder and blowjob armbinder and elbowbinder). 

 

The AA fix seems to have worked as intended:

 

FNIS_aa.pex readout before update:

 

mt_behavior usage: 72.6 %   ( 26 furniture, 32 offset, 0 chair, 107 alternate animations)
0_master usage: 19.3 %   ( 3 paired, 1 kill, 54 alternate animations)
Alternate Animation mods: 6 sets: 50 total groups: 284 added file slots: 2200 alternate files: 1121

 

FNIS_aa.pex readout after update:

 

mt_behavior usage: 65.5 %   ( 26 furniture, 32 offset, 0 chair, 107 alternate animations)
0_master usage: 14.3 %   ( 3 paired, 1 kill, 54 alternate animations)
Alternate Animation mods: 6 sets: 33 total groups: 182 added file slots: 1420 alternate files: 1121

 

The difference is definitely significant and should help a lot with AA load concerns going forward - thanks to @Tyrant99 for the fix and the team for merging it.

 

 

 

Issues experienced during testing of this commit:

 

The default Iron Breast Bondage Yoke was not triggering the sex animation filter while being worn - as a result I wasn't able to test the BB animations listed in the commit.

 

The front cuffs also had this issue and were not triggering the animation filter, so I did not test the new front cuffs animations.

 

I was not able to trigger SH's regular yoke animations after a dozen or so attempts - this may however just be bad luck as I instead got a range of the older ZAP and FB yoke animations.

[Reesewow]

Feature request:

 

Related to my experience attempting to test SH's yoke animations above, I think a feature within DD to allow for users to change bound animations mid-scene via hotkey would be a welcome addition. 

 

I'm sure many of us have become accustomed to Sexlab Tools' powerful animation selection features, and unfortunately the DD animation filter is incompatible with that mod due to the DD animations not being registered within Sexlab.  While reproducing the functionality of Sexlab Tools for DD animations might be a bit overkill (and require possibly using UIExtensions as a master file for DD), I think having the filter produce a pool of viable animations for a player and allowing for a hotkey to cycle through them would be sufficient.  Typically for heavy bondage animations the pool isn't that large, at least for now, and it would be a large improvement in player control. 

 

Especially if we have talented new animators working on animations for DD, I would much prefer to be able to swap to those if I'm not a fan of the animation the filter chose for me - some of the older ZAP animations simply haven't aged that well in comparison. 

[Billyy]

Is it possible for the DD sex animation filter to grab other animations not included in DDi (I think that’s the one with the sex animations…)? I don’t suppose it uses those specific DD tags I saw the animations using? I didn’t have any success when I tested it, but admittingly I didn’t try hard because I assumed it wouldn’t work, and I didn’t have an easy way to really test because it only ever selects 1 animation.

That being said is there any plan to revamp how the filter works? Kind of like what @Reesewow said, although I don’t know how feasible it is. The filter has always felt kind of clunky to me because of the only selecting 1 animation thing, and it doesn’t help I’d usually feel inclined to change the animation that was selected and playing if you know what I mean... It’d also be nice if one could remove said animations from the pool too.

[Guest]

Does anyone know if there are UUNP models that could be used for "non-piercing" vibrating piercings? I'm thinking something like nipple tape with vibrators "underneath"

[tryguy]

So, what about this kind of thing?

 

 

Too hard?

[LazyBoot]

12 hours ago, Billyy said:

Is it possible for the DD sex animation filter to grab other animations not included in DDi (I think that’s the one with the sex animations…)? I don’t suppose it uses those specific DD tags I saw the animations using? I didn’t have any success when I tested it, but admittingly I didn’t try hard because I assumed it wouldn’t work, and I didn’t have an easy way to really test because it only ever selects 1 animation.

That being said is there any plan to revamp how the filter works? Kind of like what @Reesewow said, although I don’t know how feasible it is. The filter has always felt kind of clunky to me because of the only selecting 1 animation thing, and it doesn’t help I’d usually feel inclined to change the animation that was selected and playing if you know what I mean... It’d also be nice if one could remove said animations from the pool too.

There aren't really any animations out there that would work that isn't already included in DDi already.

The next version seems to have some more included, so at least there will some some variety then.

[Kimy]

I have no doubt that it could be done, it would however consume AA slots. I will ask our modellers what they think of it.

[Kimy]

19 hours ago, Billyy said:

Is it possible for the DD sex animation filter to grab other animations not included in DDi (I think that’s the one with the sex animations…)? I don’t suppose it uses those specific DD tags I saw the animations using? I didn’t have any success when I tested it, but admittingly I didn’t try hard because I assumed it wouldn’t work, and I didn’t have an easy way to really test because it only ever selects 1 animation.

DD does not draw on SexLab's public registry for bound animations, it uses it's own private list. Registering bound animations to SL's public registry is not a very good idea, tbh. This would mean that bound animations can and will get randomly used, even in situations when nobody is bound (e,.g. when a non-bondage aware mod calls random sex animations). And bound animations without bindings tend to look fairly silly.

As a result, DD will never play bound animations distributed in SLAL packs. We will gladly add bound animations contributed to DD with proper credits, though (as long as it's for humans - DD doesn't have creature support).

19 hours ago, Billyy said:

That being said is there any plan to revamp how the filter works? Kind of like what @Reesewow said, although I don’t know how feasible it is. The filter has always felt kind of clunky to me because of the only selecting 1 animation thing, and it doesn’t help I’d usually feel inclined to change the animation that was selected and playing if you know what I mean... It’d also be nice if one could remove said animations from the pool too.

The filter works well enough, it just didn't have much to work with in the past, as people seemed to have little interest in making bound animations for humans in the past (they made creature animations, but DD can't use them). This got remedied only a few weeks ago, when Spacehamster contributed a set of new bound animations to DD. We'd totally take more any day, and we still have glaring gaps in our repertoire, such as several devices having zero F/F animations, despite that's a fairly common scenario. We also have zero threesomes, so the filter has to break them apart, which is also meh.

[Reesewow]

I would definitely love to see some of these animations end up in the DD framework - https://billyy56.tumblr.com/post/177317590416/human-yoke-animations

 

 

[Billyy]

54 minutes ago, LazyBoot said:

There aren't really any animations out there that would work that isn't already included in DDi already.

The next version seems to have some more included, so at least there will some some variety then.

Sorry, I was asking as an animator that coincidentally also made a handful of human yoke animations.

42 minutes ago, Kimy said:

DD does not draw on SexLab's public registry for bound animations, it uses it's own private list. Registering bound animations to SL's public registry is not a very good idea, tbh. This would mean that bound animations can and will get randomly used, even in situations when nobody is bound (e,.g. when a non-bondage aware mod calls random sex animations). And bound animations without bindings tend to look fairly silly.

As a result, DD will never play bound animations distributed in SLAL packs. We will gladly add bound animations contributed to DD with proper credits, though (as long as it's for humans - DD doesn't have creature support).

Well I guess the whole point of the filter is to prevent the need to swap animations so I guess I’m forced to agree with you for the most part. I will however still be releasing device animations in my own “bondage devices” SLAL at least for those who don’t use DD but still have bondage devices, or those who prefer it that way. I guess I don’t have a problem with having the animations being packaged into DDi as well if you want them. Then people who use DDi just wouldn't install my bondage SLAL pack.

42 minutes ago, Kimy said:

The filter works well enough, it just didn't have much to work with in the past, as people seemed to have little interest in making bound animations for humans in the past (they made creature animations, but DD can't use them). This got remedied only a few weeks ago, when Spacehamster contributed a set of new bound animations to DD. We'd totally take more any day, and we still have glaring gaps in our repertoire, such as several devices having zero F/F animations, despite that's a fairly common scenario. We also have zero threesomes, so the filter has to break them apart, which is also meh.

DD animations are more of a side project for me (human only of course). I don’t expect I’ll be a heavy contributor of animations, so I probably won’t be the one brave enough to start getting into FF and group animations (I haven’t even done enough normal animations for those yet), but I might make some standard 2p stuff here and there.

 

[Kimy]

I'd be -totally- interested!

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

Did someone say Yoke animations ?

[Kimy]

@Billyy : Ok, where can I have a look at your bound animations? I just looked at your SLAL pack, and can't find them in the list. Or am I just blind?

[_SpaceHamster_]

25 minutes ago, Kimy said:

@Billyy : Ok, where can I have a look at your bound animations? I just looked at your SLAL pack, and can't find them in the list. Or am I just blind?

I'm sure you can find them on his Tumblr.

These are good.

 

I've read that there aren't any f/f animations with devices, and since it's been a while, I'd figure to take another shot in making something.
All I can say is that what I have in my mind right now is a cunnilingus animation with front cuffs.

Something I haven't thought about it, any ideas what the "intention" of the animations are.
Might be worded badly, but does the DD team / DD users prefer aggressive animations? Consensual?

 

I'm aiming for consensual because I think that generally female on female sex is known to be romantic, tender, all that stuff, compared to male on female.
Then again, there are devious devices involved this time, so maybe I can take it another route ?

[Kimy]

Oh right...I can't access Tumblr. It requires an account, which I don't have. I don't do social media.

 

About our focus - we take both consensual and aggressive animations. The latter in theory, because we don't have any I'd know of, so our current repository is used for either scenario.

[Billyy]

31 minutes ago, Kimy said:

Oh right...I can't access Tumblr. It requires an account, which I don't have. I don't do social media.

 

About our focus - we take both consensual and aggressive animations. The latter in theory, because we don't have any I'd know of, so our current repository is used for either scenario.

I've not yet released the update with them included yet, that'll be in a week or 2. I'll just copy paste my preview clips from the post. I did kind of have the male grab the yoke bars a few times for fun, but unfortunately that means alignment will be off for any non 'iron yoke' yokes...

 

Spoiler

Human_YokeCowgirl

S1: https://gfycat.com/IncredibleSociableHarpseal

S2: https://gfycat.com/SpiffyCraftyKangaroo

S3: https://gfycat.com/PositiveJollyAndeancat

S4: https://gfycat.com/SlowRightFirecrest

S5: https://gfycat.com/UnkemptPortlyCat

 

Human_YokeDoggy

S1: https://gfycat.com/InferiorBriefGelada

S2: https://gfycat.com/BrightAchingCrustacean

S3: https://gfycat.com/WhisperedGrandAtlanticbluetang

S4: https://gfycat.com/ShrillUnsungGuernseycow

S5: https://gfycat.com/BriskOblongArgali

 

Human_YokeMissionary

S1: https://gfycat.com/EnchantedSaltyDunlin

S2: https://gfycat.com/DifficultRealisticFrenchbulldog

S3: https://gfycat.com/AnimatedThreadbareBird

S4: https://gfycat.com/IckyGreatBooby

S5: https://gfycat.com/MessyOldfashionedFairybluebird

 

Human_YokeStanding

S1: https://gfycat.com/UnsteadyDigitalHaddock

S2: https://gfycat.com/ZanyAggravatingKitfox

S3: https://gfycat.com/RemorsefulSentimentalKillerwhale

S4: https://gfycat.com/UnrulyEuphoricHoneybadger

S5: https://gfycat.com/ZestyEachAfricanwilddog

 

 Human_YokeFacefuck

S1: https://gfycat.com/ImpassionedOddballDartfrog

S2: https://gfycat.com/ComplicatedSharpAfghanhound

S3: https://gfycat.com/ScrawnyWelllitGrassspider

S4: https://gfycat.com/MetallicDampArmadillo

S5: https://gfycat.com/RaggedHospitableBigmouthbass

 

Human_Yoke69

S1: https://gfycat.com/DarkAdventurousAustralianfurseal

S2: https://gfycat.com/IgnorantConventionalBobcat

S3: https://gfycat.com/SizzlingFocusedDeer

S4: https://gfycat.com/OpulentNecessaryHoneycreeper

S5: https://gfycat.com/SoreMeekJavalina

 

Human_YokeReverseCowgirlAnal

S1: https://gfycat.com/MintyGrotesqueHippopotamus

S2: https://gfycat.com/SizzlingAchingAustralianfurseal

S3: https://gfycat.com/NextIndolentHound

S4: https://gfycat.com/SlimBrilliantAmericanpainthorse

S5: https://gfycat.com/ImpoliteFlusteredLeafbird

 

Human_YokeLayingAnal

S1: https://gfycat.com/DependableDecisiveAdouri

S2: https://gfycat.com/ConstantTinyAlpineroadguidetigerbeetle

S3: https://gfycat.com/FoolishFluffyFerret

S4: https://gfycat.com/FewYellowishAustraliancurlew

S5: https://gfycat.com/IndolentRareLhasaapso

 

[Kimy]

*nod nod*

 

Yes, our yoke models are subtly different, so I can see this being a problem for animators. When in doubt, I -can- check which exact yoke is equipped and play the proper one, though.

[-Ayleth-]

32 minutes ago, Billyy said:

I've not yet released the update with them included yet, that'll be in a week or 2. I'll just copy paste my preview clips from the post. I did kind of have the male grab the yoke bars a few times for fun, but unfortunately that means alignment will be off for any non 'iron yoke' yokes...

 

  Hide contents

Human_YokeCowgirl

S1: https://gfycat.com/IncredibleSociableHarpseal

S2: https://gfycat.com/SpiffyCraftyKangaroo

S3: https://gfycat.com/PositiveJollyAndeancat

S4: https://gfycat.com/SlowRightFirecrest

S5: https://gfycat.com/UnkemptPortlyCat

 

Human_YokeDoggy

S1: https://gfycat.com/InferiorBriefGelada

S2: https://gfycat.com/BrightAchingCrustacean

S3: https://gfycat.com/WhisperedGrandAtlanticbluetang

S4: https://gfycat.com/ShrillUnsungGuernseycow

S5: https://gfycat.com/BriskOblongArgali

 

Human_YokeMissionary

S1: https://gfycat.com/EnchantedSaltyDunlin

S2: https://gfycat.com/DifficultRealisticFrenchbulldog

S3: https://gfycat.com/AnimatedThreadbareBird

S4: https://gfycat.com/IckyGreatBooby

S5: https://gfycat.com/MessyOldfashionedFairybluebird

 

Human_YokeStanding

S1: https://gfycat.com/UnsteadyDigitalHaddock

S2: https://gfycat.com/ZanyAggravatingKitfox

S3: https://gfycat.com/RemorsefulSentimentalKillerwhale

S4: https://gfycat.com/UnrulyEuphoricHoneybadger

S5: https://gfycat.com/ZestyEachAfricanwilddog

 

 Human_YokeFacefuck

S1: https://gfycat.com/ImpassionedOddballDartfrog

S2: https://gfycat.com/ComplicatedSharpAfghanhound

S3: https://gfycat.com/ScrawnyWelllitGrassspider

S4: https://gfycat.com/MetallicDampArmadillo

S5: https://gfycat.com/RaggedHospitableBigmouthbass

 

Human_Yoke69

S1: https://gfycat.com/DarkAdventurousAustralianfurseal

S2: https://gfycat.com/IgnorantConventionalBobcat

S3: https://gfycat.com/SizzlingFocusedDeer

S4: https://gfycat.com/OpulentNecessaryHoneycreeper

S5: https://gfycat.com/SoreMeekJavalina

 

Human_YokeReverseCowgirlAnal

S1: https://gfycat.com/MintyGrotesqueHippopotamus

S2: https://gfycat.com/SizzlingAchingAustralianfurseal

S3: https://gfycat.com/NextIndolentHound

S4: https://gfycat.com/SlimBrilliantAmericanpainthorse

S5: https://gfycat.com/ImpoliteFlusteredLeafbird

 

Human_YokeLayingAnal

S1: https://gfycat.com/DependableDecisiveAdouri

S2: https://gfycat.com/ConstantTinyAlpineroadguidetigerbeetle

S3: https://gfycat.com/FoolishFluffyFerret

S4: https://gfycat.com/FewYellowishAustraliancurlew

S5: https://gfycat.com/IndolentRareLhasaapso

 

Just saying. Those look really good. Cant wait to try them once they´re out.

 

[Gräfin Zeppelin]

O.O