? The Selachii - Shark Race

[Kuroyami]

 

Alternatively, I could simply include the fundoshi as the default and SOS' one as a standalone item and give it to Mizuno and Haru, but there would be situations in which they may not equip it or something. I guess I'll think about it.

 

For both Mizuno and Haru, just having it in their inventory, or nearby would be enough. Though I'd hope both would have the option to wear generally too, if at all possible. 

 

Otherwise, a start on Tsuri's dialog.

 

Introduction

 

 

T – Kon'nichiwa.

       |

      [PC] – [PCIsASelachii] Arigato.

                   |

                  T – Yokoso, Same.

 

      [PC] – [PCIsASelachii] Thank you.

 

      [PC] – [PCIsNotASelachii] What?

                   |

                  T – [slightlyConfused] Ah...yes...I mean to say, Hello.

                         |

                        [PC] So you do not speak much Cyrodiilic?

                                 |

                               T – [stressed] Ie.(No) My...grasp is...less than yours.

                                       |

                                      T – I believe I can manage. I rarely speak with others – perhaps you understand.

 

 

May have to come up with something better for that second Selachii line.

 

General Dialog

 

 

[PC] You said you do not often speak with others?

         |

        T – [smile, Nod] Hai. Perhaps only when selling fish in Solitude, or to the nearby...Stronghold?

               |

              T – More to the Orcs, since those in Solitude have their...suppliers? 

                     |

                   [PC] [PCNotBloodKin Or NotAnOrc] The Orcs accept you walking among them?

                             |

                            T – Years ago, after my arrival here, I set up a camp, and began living here.

                                    |

                                   T – Mere weeks later, I see a number of a race I did not yet know, spending time by the water. 

                                          |

                                         T – I did not know their customs, and had no wish to intervene. 

                                                |

                                                T – But one of their number, no more than a boy, as far as I could see, strayed too far out into the ocean.

                                                        |

                                                       T – The rest tried going after them, but the tide was gaining strength – the onset of a storm to occur hours later.

                                                               |

                                                             [PC] Did you save him?

                                                             [PC] Why did you save him?

                                                                 [He moves on, regardless of the player's line choice]

                                                                        |

                                                                       T – I found him...passed out...underwater, about halfway out to that island with the castle.

                                                                              |

                                                                             T – I did not expect a reward, as their gratefulness was more appreciated. 

                                                                                    |

                                                                                   T – One of their number, the boy's father, handed me this ring – telling me that I would be welcome among them, for my efforts.

 

                   [PC] [PCIsBloodKin OR An Orc] Did you do something for them?

                             |

                           T – I supply them with food, but that is not why they abide my presence in their stronghold.

                                  |

                                 [PC] What happened?

                                          |

                                         T – Years ago, after my arrival here, I set up a camp, and began living here.

                                                |

                                               T – Mere weeks later, I see a number of a race I did not yet know, spending time by the water. 

                                                      |

                                                     T – I did not know their customs, and had no wish to intervene. 

                                                            |

                                                           T – But one of their number, no more than a boy, as far as I could see, strayed too far out into the ocean.

                                                                  |

                                                                 T – The rest tried going after them, but the tide was gaining strength – the onset of a storm to occur hours later.

                                                                        |

                                                                       [PC] Did you save him?

                                                                       [PC] Why did you save him?

                                                                                [He moves on, regardless of the player's line choice]

                                                                                |

                                                                               T – I found him...passed out...underwater, about halfway out to that island with the castle.

                                                                                      |

                                                                                     T – I did not expect a reward, as their gratefulness was more appreciated. 

                                                                                            |

                                                                                           T – One of their number, the boy's father, handed me this ring – telling me that I would be welcome among them, for my efforts.

 

 

Surely, there is a mod that has an Orcish ring, that is open to use, with credit, perhaps? I'll look into that. 

 

Also checked out that Camp again, and noticed I had forgotten about a few things...that were already there. Not sure how much of this is vanilla, though - but I don't recall anything specific that I use which could change it. 

[Blaze69]

Also checked out that Camp again, and noticed I had forgotten about a few things...that were already there. Not sure how much of this is vanilla, though - but I don't recall anything specific that I use which could change it. 

ClamDiggerCamp.png

Going by the UESP description in the Unmarked Places page and the "satellite" image from the interactive map, I'd say all of that is vanilla. Probably won't need many changes, just adding some misc items like a fishing rod and such and perhaps also some cleanup if the layout/Navmesh is wonky with NPCs.

[Kuroyami]

Okay, so some info about my ideas for Tyris...

 

- Her dialog will contain a number of chances to raise or increase her relationship value with the player. Using lines that keep things fairly cordial towards her, most likely are neutral, or perhaps raise her relationship rank, opens up the follower option. By contrast, using lines that are less so, decrease the value, opening up the option to, by a dialog choice, kill her - likely either for the player's own reasons, or the fact that most of these negative lines will refer to, that she is a Vampire. If taking the second option, and going so far as to kill her, then it would lock the player out from doing her possible quest. However, if just decreasing her relationship without taking the dialog choice to kill her - doing her quest would be required to open up the follower option. Though as a perhaps obvious point, taking this route before her quest is added, means that she cannot be obtained as a follower. 

 

- The Vigilant member she killed - currently they are described as a male Khajiit. Likely something not exactly unusual, and this would match up with what is possible when using Diverse Skyrim. 

 

- Depending on relationship rank, her quest may be more of a favor to her(at least at first - for a low or negative value), or it will go right into delving more into her backstory. 

 

- Some basic quest details:

Spoiler

- Once either a follower, or having done a simple favor quest for her, there will be a journal the player can access. Either she will give it directly to the player, or it could be placed in a knapsack like Mizuno's. This journal will detail some things about her past, including the small Coven of Vampires she stayed with for a while, and their demise - where she returned to find most of the other Vampires killed, with signs that the Vigilants were responsible. 

 

- At some point in the quest, it will be revealed that the one who changed her, is an Argonian, and is still alive. 

 

- If the player does end up killing her, then even without doing the quest, if the player happens upon the location where her "sire" would be found(in the quest), they will find him dead. 

 

Started on her preset as well, though I'm going to work on it more. 

[Blaze69]

12 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Okay, so some info about my ideas for Tyris...

Sounds good to me; the dialogue options having an effect on the relationship rank or otherwise on the way things may proceed is a really good idea, though it may take some extra work if we want to make it go deeper than simply vanilla relationshipr-specific comments and the follower option or lack thereof. Still, as always, I'll look into it when I get back to working on the mod.

 

As a side note, I ran through the vanilla race NPCs again to do some cleanup (like the incompatibility between Jena and Ko'Maru's body textures and the latest version of Yiffy Age), and I ended up stripping them of most of their custom assets. Now they all use vanilla hairs and body textures, though Ko'Maru still uses Nightro's new head. I think they came out pretty good all things considered, and the file size dropped by a fair amount too. I could try to revert them, or at least give them their custom hairs back, but I don't think it's necessary, so I'll probably leave them vanilla.

[Kuroyami]

4 hours ago, Blaze69 said:

Sounds good to me; the dialogue options having an effect on the relationship rank or otherwise on the way things may proceed is a really good idea, though it may take some extra work if we want to make it go deeper than simply vanilla relationshipr-specific comments and the follower option or lack thereof. Still, as always, I'll look into it when I get back to working on the mod.

Well, the way I've set it up is somewhat, chaotic. 

 

Spoiler

[PC] What happened to the Vigilant?
          |
         T – Exactly what you might think. 
                |
               T – He tried to kill me, but underestimated just what he was dealing with.
                      |
                     T – The hint of regret, of anger in the blood...sweeter than any wine.
                            |
                           [PC] Did he really deserve that?
                                    |
                                   T – You should not feel sorrow for such an ignorant fool.
                                          |
                                         T – It was him or me, and I would have no reason to choose...him.

 

[PC] Why are you staying here?
          |
         T – Someone like me in an isolated place? 
                |
               T – Oh, please. Would you rather I was in a stuffy, underground crypt among old bones?
                      |
                    T – Fitting, but I think I can be more imaginative than that.

These two options are first, and are basically neutral - though a second option for the first choice(along with "Did he really deserve that?, may get a increase or decrease). 

 

After this, there are branches for if the player is a Vampire or not. Take note that, either one will allow you to increase or decrease her relationship value. 

 

Spoiler

[PC] [RequiresPreviousTwoQuestions] So you are a...Vampire?
          |         
         T – [PCIsAVampire] Like you, yes.
                 | 
               [PC] [Relationship +1(UpByOne)]I cannot say I would have expected an Argonian, however. 
                        |
                       T – What else could my egg have hatched?
                              |
                           [PC] Likely not a Khajiit.
                                    |
                                   T – Yes, that would be unlikely.

 

                           [PC] I...do not know.
                                    |
                                  T – I could have been male, like my siblings, but not much else.

               [PC] [Relationship =(NoChange)]What happened?
                         |
                        T – Simple. I found love, and made a choice. 
                               |
                               T – Which may have went sour, but I still live.

 

               [PC] [Relationship -1(DownByOne)] Just another lizard.
                        |
                       T – You know what bad memories are?
                              |
                             T – Growing up in a place that does not care about you, and even while you struggle, gives you little to nothing.
                                    |
                                   T – Someone like that, even if they do not know it, lies in wait for a chance.
                                         |
                                        T – If you want to die, keep talking like that – since now I no longer lie in wait.
               
         T – [PCNotAVampire]You can tell? Interesting.
                 |
               [PC] [“Way Of The Voice” Completed] Yeah, I'm Drag-
                         |
                        T – Save it. Whatever it is, I do not care.

 

               [PC] [Relationship =] I have not seen too many Argonians in Skyrim.
                        |
                       T – But you have likely seen many Nords.
                              |
                             T – Who excel at not caring about anyone but themselves. The feelings of others? Irrelevant.
                                    |
                                   [PC] [PCIsNotANord, Relationship +1] Sounds like you do not like them.
                                            |
                                            T – I lived in Windhelm since I was a hatchling. Of course I do not.
                                                  |
                                                 T – Hard as you work, it does not matter – for you can never be equal in their eyes, for you are not of their race.

 

                                   [PC] [Relationship =] They cannot all be like that.
                                             |
                                            T – Obviously. But even a few, either those with power and influence...
                                                   |
                                                  T – ...or just those willing to yell loud enough, make those who are of such thinking, silence themselves.

 

                                   [PC] [PCIsANord, Relationship -1] Why should I care?
                                            |
                                           T – To that, I ask why I should care about you.

 

               [PC] [Relationship =] What happened?
                         |
                        T – I found love, and made a choice.
                              |
                             T – While it did go sour in the end, I still live.

As suggested, +1 means the value goes up to 1, a -means it goes down by one, and a = means no increase or decrease.

 

If the rank stays positive, a bit more talking with her would get her up to the Ally rank, and opens up the follower option.

If the value goes negative, at -1 you would need to do a small favor quest to possibly open up the follower option. But if goes to -2 or -3, it opens up dialog options that lead to her becoming hostile to the player. However, if this reaches -4 at any point? No extra dialog, no making sure - the dialog ends and she will immediately attack the player. 

[Blaze69]

10 hours ago, Kuroyami said:

Well, the way I've set it up is somewhat, chaotic. [...]

Oh, boy. It's going to be hell getting all those dialogues and scripts set up. But I'll try, lol .

 

In the meantime, while still waiting for the female assets, I think I may look into editing some stuff already. Like for example Mizuno's quest, which could use some improvements such as not having the amulet magically spawn when you get the quest but rather be there from the start and so.

 

Also since I got the whole SL soft-linking system set up and (seemingly) working, I may finally look into adding dialogue options to persuade/intimidate/bribe Deekus to give up the amulet and also add an optional Solutions-esque option to "persuade" him using sex (which would only be available with SL installed). Not sure about that last part, though, just something that came to mind.

[Blaze69]

Okay, so small update: I've been working on Mizuno's quest and I've made the changes mentioned above. They go like this:

• The amulet now appears in Deekus' camp from the start and picking it up bypasses the initial conversation with Mizuno and instead prompts you to find out about the amulet and its owner (the approach here is that it's obviously stolen, and thus the real owner will want to have it back). This in turn points to a note where Deekus wrote how he got the amulet which is presumably what leads the player back to Mizuno; the note is WIP and I may end up changing that.
• Picking up the amulet actually causes Deekus to aggro on the player via custom script instead of simply being considered stolen as before (which only made him say the generic "Thief!" line without even a bounty). Unless you actually convince him to let you take the amulet, that is. Which leads us to...
• Deekus can be convinced to give up the amulet via dialogue after speaking to Mizuno and getting the objective to retrieve the amulet (there's even an optional objective to do so). All three vanilla options: Bribe/Intimidate/Persuade, alongside an extra fourth option to persuade him with sex (only available for female PCs and if SL is installed). Oh, and all of them voiced using the vanilla shared lines.

There are some quirks left, though. I still need a proper text for the note (current one is very WIP) so it would make sense for the player to know where to find Mizuno and who he is, and I would also need Mizuno's response to the player stating they persuaded Deekus when returning with the amulet (the only options so far are having killed him and having stolen it without him noticing, and obviously those don't work if you convince him). Perhaps a specific line for having used the SL option, since Mizuno makes a specific remark about getting the amulet back that way when talking about Deekus, but I'm not sure.

[Kuroyami]

So, the quest for Tyris will be somewhat simple - she wants to track down the one who turned her, as suggested, a male Argonian, named Razei. She thought perhaps at first he was dead, based on the information presented below(in the second note), but a note she found on the Vigilant she killed, made her think otherwise. 

 

Spoiler

That raid on a cave full of Vampires did not exactly go as expected. While we dealt with the Vampires, we captured one, taking him elsewhere, the cave collapsed soon after we left. Now we have the task of making sure there are no others from that location. 

 

However, I have a letter from someone in Morthal, speaking of Vampiric activity near the swamps of Hjaalmarch – a Nordic ruin apparently called Kjenstag. I want you to go there and deal with any Vampires you find. 

Not sure where to put it, as it would be too telling, and spoiling a vanilla quest, but I'd like to think it was Alva, who tried to sell Tyris out to the Vigilant. 

 

This note will be found on the Viligants guarding Razei, when you find him.

Spoiler

I know we were successful in clearing out that cave full of Vampires, but the ensuing chaos must of caused a structural collapse that was not quick. The last Vampire we found, slumbered within a coffin. We decided to lock it shut, and cart it out. 

 

Lucky, since the cave's collapse occurred soon after we loaded the coffin onto a cart, and set off. Good. All evidence of those foul creatures wiped from view. However, it is possible this group had more members. We must be wary of them tracking us down, if they exist. Take this one to (Cave location), and interrogate them. We need to know if he has any friends out there. 

 

Know that I've sent a Viligant to scout a location in Hjaalmarch, a Nordic ruin northeast of Morthal, but it has been too long, and I worry he has either been killed by someone or something on the road, or has indeed encountered Vampires, and the situation did not go in his favor. I am unsure if I should send any others to assert his fate. 

 

Perhaps only if the one we've caught yields any answers. 

I'm thinking of perhaps Uttering Hills Cave, though that may cause problems with the Thieves Guild quest, and the Summerset Shadows that are meant to appear there. So probably somewhere else in Eastmarch. The location's name can easily be added to both notes once decided. 

[Chosen Clue]

Hey Blaze69, I made a version of Shark Race's esp that removes the built-in Hoodies quest and uses the BadDogHoodiesCore.ESM quest to do the schlong stage swapping instead.

 

This technically makes Hoodie Schlongs a requirement, but also prevents two instances of the hoodies system from running, saving some papyrus resources. And if users don't want the Hoodie Schlongs, all they have to do is not activate the hoodie schlongs esp.

 

I've uploaded it if you want it.

 

If you want to use it on an existing save, I think you might have to use the SOS MCM menu option to Restart SOS. That will cause the custom Bad Dog SOS addon script to run its registeraddon function and put the Shark sheath into the BadDogHoodiesCore.ESM quest. And then you might need to use a save cleaner just in case.

 

Shark Race.esp

Edited November 14, 2017 by Chosen Clue

[Blaze69]

4 minutes ago, Chosen Clue said:

Hey Blaze69, I made a version of Shark Race's esp that removes the built-in Hoodies quest and uses the BadDogHoodiesCore.ESM quest to do the schlong stage swapping instead.

 

This technically makes Hoodie Schlongs a requirement, but also prevents two instances of the hoodies system from running, saving some papyrus resources. And if users don't want the Hoodie Schlongs, all they have to do is not activate the hoodie schlongs esp.

That's something I've thought about, yes. In fact, I've edited the NPC plugin so that it disables the built-in Hoodies system (aka prevents the quest from starting and the scripts from triggering) and hooks into the YA one instead, and everything seems to be working fine (I think I've already posted this, but if I haven't, here it is). So if you use YA and the NPC plugin, there will be only one instance of the Hoodies system.

 

As for removing the built-in system from the main plugin, I'm not sure. It would mean adding another plugin requirement, and unlike the current implementation it would be hard to have a single Hoodies quest working if you use YA (I can change the script to use the YA Hoodies, but the HoodiesCore ESM would still be a requirement for the main plugin and thus would run its own system. I'll have to think about it.

[Kuroyami]

Added this to the Legacy book.

 

Currency

Spoiler

While the type of currency we may have used before is unknown to us, it is known that our race has always had an interest in Silver, to the point where it is used in the creation of many mundane things, though other races have done this as well. It was not exactly a leap in logic for us to use this as currency, as it was something we were nearly infatuated with, and other races did value it, so they would easily accept it in trade. 

 

Due to our interest in Silver, it is to our fortune that a few Selachii, some years after our city of Same-Shuto was established, reported the discovery that the seafloor surrounding the island on which the city was built, was littered with veins of silver. No other race laid a claim to this, and it would be difficult, due to the fact that they could not mine it as easily as we could, being as deep as most of the veins are. 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Kuroyami

[twofiveseven]

Is v2.75 up anywhere? I miss the cartoony heads, they were so expressive

[vistigious]

Anyone know why my Creation kit crashes everytime i try to touch any Sharkmer esp?   I want to make a custom fallower and im at my wits end, Even Familiar faces Refuses to Use sharkmer for me... i can use the stock fallowers but i want my own face and hair, but CK always crashes

[Blaze69]

15 hours ago, twofiveseven said:

Is v2.75 up anywhere? I miss the cartoony heads, they were so expressive

There used to be a link to a MEGA folder with the 2.75 version of the mod plus two optional files, but it seems to be broken. Not sure if it's due to the site upgrade or I deleted the folder and forgot to remove the link (honestly I had forgotten about the old versions of the mod, lol). I'll have a look.

 

If I did delete the files, I can see if I have any backups on my HDD and if so upload them directly to LL thanks to the new file size limit being around 500 MB or so.

13 hours ago, vistigious said:

Anyone know why my Creation kit crashes everytime i try to touch any Sharkmer esp?   I want to make a custom fallower and im at my wits end, Even Familiar faces Refuses to Use sharkmer for me... i can use the stock fallowers but i want my own face and hair, but CK always crashes

Huh, when you say Sharkmer, you mean this version of the mod, right? Not the old cartoony one? Just asking to make sure. I feel like I should make the difference between the two mods a bit clearer. Maybe change the mod name to something similar to what I did for Lungaris; maybe like "Selachii - Shark Race" or so.

 

Anyway, no idea, I use the CK to edit the follower plugin (obviously) and it works just fine, no crashes caused by this mod at all (I do get crashes, but those are the regular CK errors and CTDs that can't be prevented due to the CK itself being crap). Do the crashes only happen when editing this mod, or do they happen with other plugins?

[freenutsxd]

would there be some way to use the 2.75 'cartoony' heads with the new version? i wouldn't mind having to go through a hassle just to have the more cute (in my opinion) heads, however if there's literally no way without having to completely rebuild the mod, i'm fine with just sticking with the new ones, however as a personal preference i'd just enjoy using the classic ones more.

[Blaze69]

2 hours ago, freenutsxd said:

would there be some way to use the 2.75 'cartoony' heads with the new version? i wouldn't mind having to go through a hassle just to have the more cute (in my opinion) heads, however if there's literally no way without having to completely rebuild the mod, i'm fine with just sticking with the new ones, however as a personal preference i'd just enjoy using the classic ones more.

The textures for the old heads would have to be remade to match the new body textures, and all the hairs and head parts would have to be either edited for use with the old head setup or removed altogether. Not a completel rewrite of the mod, but not a 2-minute thing either.

 

Honestly I've left the 2.75 version behind and I no longer support nor like it, so chances are I won't work on it any further. I will probably post the 2.75 download sometime soon, though, so if someone else wants to update it to be on par with the new version, I could upload it as an optional file as well (but I won't provide support for it myself if it happens). Sorry for the incovenience, but I'm just not interested in the old heads anymore.

 

EDIT: the MEGA folder was still there and seems to be working, so I guess the link got screwed up during the site update. You can get it from the download option at the bottom of the list, the one with no name.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Blaze69

[pipinosgr]

will you add beast feet for female CBBE in the new version? thanks

Edited November 20, 2017 by pipinosgr

[Blaze69]

11 minutes ago, pipinosgr said:

will you add beast feet for female CBBE in the new version? thanks

I don't think so.

 

The only reason UNP has beast feet in the first place is that the meshes use the default UNP feet textures without requiring any edits, so I simply left them that way. CBBE textures use a different layout for the feet, so I would have to either change the beast feet to use CBBE textures or modify the human CBBE feet to make them more beastly. Both options are difficult and I have no interest in any of them, so the CBBE version will keep the human feet for now.

 

In fact, the UNP version will probably lose the beast feet as well; in the next version I will replace male beast meshes with human FemFeet ones and I thought it would be weird to have males with human feet and females with beast feet, so all of them will get human feet.

 

The idea is to give them all new beast feet with optional support for Bad Dog's digitigrade skeleton, but that will probably take a while because Nightro is the one to create the new feet meshes.

[pipinosgr]

5 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

I don't think so.

 

The only reason UNP has beast feet in the first place is that the meshes use the default UNP feet textures without requiring any edits, so I simply left them that way. CBBE textures use a different layout for the feet, so I would have to either change the beast feet to use CBBE textures or modify the human CBBE feet to make them more beastly. Both options are difficult and I have no interest in any of them, so the CBBE version will keep the human feet for now.

 

In fact, the UNP version will probably lose the beast feet as well; in the next version I will replace male beast meshes with human FemFeet ones and I thought it would be weird to have males with human feet and females with beast feet, so all of them will get human feet.

 

The idea is to give them all new beast feet with optional support for Bad Dog's digitigrade skeleton, but that will probably take a while because Nightro is the one to create the new feet meshes.

oh ok, sad...

[pipinosgr]

Oh one more thing, the new npcs Hiyasu and Krista, are for yiff age? After installing the new updated followers, didn't show up

[Blaze69]

22 minutes ago, pipinosgr said:

Oh one more thing, the new npcs Hiyasu and Krista, are for yiff age? After installing the new updated followers, didn't show up

Yep, the Vanilla plugin has not been updated to the 3.17 version, and it's still at .16. I may update it for the next release, but no promises.

[Kuroyami]

Some backstory details, concerning one of Sora's biggest achievements.

 

Spoiler

Hyogi-kai Obusebun
(Council Of Seven)

Saibansho no kiroku
(Court Record)

 

Record of: Sora Ao, Kajitsu(ILLEGIBLE)
Concerning Selachii Debate on Marriage, Transcribed

 

Sora: I just want you to know – the sentiments spoken here will be seen by all those like myself, along with the Council members. So with that in mind, feel free to begin.

 

Kajitsu: That does not sound like something I have understood you to be known for.

 

Sora: Perhaps not. But soon enough you will know what I am known for, and may not like it.

 

Kajitsu: That depends, does it not?

 

Sora: Of course it does. But if you believe I have no idea what you are going to suggest, you are not as informed as I am.

 

Kajitsu: Well, if you already know, then what would be the purpose of this meeting? Surely if you knew everything, you would have given me an answer, not wished to discuss these matters with me.

 

Sora: That is actually part of the problem. I perfectly understand the climate of what I am dealing with. Unlike someone such as yourself, whose only method of determining your stance on this issue, is your own personal beliefs. 

 

Kajitsu: True, but I would find it difficult to choose based in the beliefs of others – would you not do the same?

 

Sora: Perhaps, but I have some degree of consideration for beliefs that are not personally my own. It is of interest to consider that when it came to our debates on Religion, very few Selachii stood up to debate the choice before the Council. Most of them agreed, or simply spoke their mind, and never made an issue of it. By comparison, this issue seems highly different. Many groups of Selachii throwing their support in one way, or the other, and more disgustingly, you have those same groups trying to bribe Advocates, attempting to make them argue their position in Council. 

 

Kajitsu: So you are indeed informed of what I planned on telling you. But I must know, if you felt strongly about something, would you not do whatever possible, to achieve your goal?

 

Sora: AT WHAT EXPENSE? Have you thought NOTHING of those who will be affected by the choice? Have you not considered anything beyond your own? Of course not. Because you are simply focusing on our own goal, and whatever happens to those with an opposite opinion, do not factor in the choice for you. 

 

Kajitsu: Why should I need to consider the opposite side of the debate? I have chosen mine.

 

Sora: You sorely misunderstand my work, then. My entire goal is to protect the interests of our people, and that includes all of them. But I do not simply, know, what that is. I speak to our people. To all those living in our territories. To those of other races living among us. To those who have a contrasting opinion to my own. I have no wish to change opinions, but rather to show them the contrast. The things they have not considered, as perhaps unfathomable that may be to me. 

 

Kajitsu: You seem to be attempting to play both sides, while making it known that you support only one. 

 

Sora: I am not saying that either side is wrong. Nor am I truly wishing to support either. I believe this suggested debate is not put forth as I would have done so. 

 

Kajitsu: You know, not every Selachii is, progressive as you are. Many of them are simple, living out lives in small villages, and have little concerns for the ideas that Same-Shuto wishes to enforce upon them?

 

Sora: I understand that. I understand how they think. What I suggest is, no change, really. I suggest that our laws be left open, so those of our race, and others, are free to find love of their choice, not of our race's choosing. 

 

Kajitsu: That is the point. Not all Selachii, are able to see as you do.

 

Sora: Well, it is a fine thing, that I am not limiting their vision then, is it not?

 

Kajitsu: Perhaps not. But to the matter at hand. I am prepared to offer you a sum of...[is cut off]

 

Sora: You, dare. After all I have said, after all I have spoken, you still believe, that my views are going to be akin to yours? That I would so easily let this issue boil down to a matter of currency? I will not. These are lives you are playing with. Lives you care nothing for, memories, emotions, concepts that you are likely unfamiliar, or unconcerned with. I care nothing for the Silver you may offer. 

 

Sora: My position on this matter is not likely to change. Your wealth is certainly not going to be an incentive for that. We are finished here. 

 

 

More on this topic to follow - something of an almost literal follow up to this, the conclusion of the mentioned debate. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Kuroyami

[Blaze69]

29 minutes ago, Kuroyami said:

Some backstory details, concerning one of Sora's biggest achievements.

Interesting transcript indeed, but I'm not sure how to feel about it from a lore integration perspective. At first glance, one such debate would eventually come up in any remotely realistic story and thus it would be good to include it, but then again that may be a biased thought based on, well, human history. I mean, we're not talking about humans, and that's a fact that is sometimes done wrong and causes any fantastical races (humanoid or otherwise) to look like "human society but with X instead of humans". Whether or not it would actually fit with that race and the other facts that surround them is something to take into account.

 

Also, that topic doesn't seem to be an issue at all in the rest of Tamriel; every marrigeable NPC in Skyrim being effectively bisexual is probably just a gameplay concession to not "close up options", like for example being able to join all guilds/factions at once is; but nevertheless it is obvious that the Elder Scrolls world is more open minded on several aspects, including this one.

 

In any case, these are just some comments and food for thought, and I'll be happy to go for whatever choice you think is best. (Also sorry for the fancy wording, I don't know why but it just came out like that, lol)

[Kuroyami]

15 minutes ago, Blaze69 said:

Interesting transcript indeed, but I'm not sure how to feel about it from a lore integration perspective. At first glance, one such debate would eventually come up in any remotely realistic story and thus it would be good to include it, but then again that may be a biased thought based on, well, human history. I mean, we're not talking about humans, and that's a fact that is sometimes done wrong and causes any fantastical races (humanoid or otherwise) to look like "human society but with X instead of humans". Whether or not it would actually fit with that race and the other facts that surround them is something to take into account.

 

Also, that topic doesn't seem to be an issue at all in the rest of Tamriel; every marrigeable NPC in Skyrim being effectively bisexual is probably just a gameplay concession to not "close up options", like for example being able to join all guilds/factions at once is; but nevertheless it is obvious that the Elder Scrolls world is more open minded on several aspects, including this one.

 

In any case, these are just some comments and food for thought, and I'll be happy to go for whatever choice you think is best. (Also sorry for the fancy wording, I don't know why but it just came out like that, lol)

Very true. It should be clear enough, from this, other comments I've made, and mentions of it in various writings, but the debate was not based on any specific Religion, just on the ideal that, at least marriage-wise, there should be a focus on the traditional style of families - the debate itself being about those who supported the more traditional family, and those who believed their ideals, and laws should leave such a choice in the hearts and minds of the people, not left solely to the choice of the Council - even with the arguments for or against. 

 

Another point is that this debate is not a recent thing - it occurred during the Second Era, when while there were perhaps members of other races in Selachii territory, and due to that ideas from it and elsewhere following all the same, it was one of the sparks of the debate. Should they follow the same lines that the other races of Tamriel were(such as if similar marriages can happen in ESO, or in general), or should they differ in that regard? 

 

Probably will add a similar vague date(just the Era) to that transcript as the Legacy book has. 

[Kuroyami]

Some random lines for Tyris, mostly focusing on Windhelm at this point. 

 

Spoiler

[In Windhelm] Did you seriously have to drag me back here? 

 

[In Windhelm – Once – PlayerWitnessedConversation?] Oh, how I would like to kill those two. 

 

[In Windhelm, Palace of the Kings – CW Quest NOT Completed] To rule in a city where even part of it's people suffer...disgraceful.
         |
        T – Insults. Discrimination. Poverty. All things this man allows to occur within the hold that he rules over. 
               |
              T – While his own people prosper, and are cared for. Shameful.
                     |
                    [PC] You mean, Ulfric?
                            |
                           T – I will not say his name. I have suffered too much at the whims of his people, to give him that respect. 
                                 |
                                T – They never cared I had one, so why should I care that they do?

 

[In Windhelm, Docks] Bad memories...Dammit. DAMMIT.

 

[In Windhelm, Docks - ONCE] Five coins a week...reduced to one for too long, because of me. 
           |
          [PC] What? What did you do?
                 |
                T – (sigh) I...hatched? Was born? However you want to think of it. 
                        |
                       T – That would not be the first time, either. 

 

[In Windhelm, Docks - ] (laughter) Still cannot believe...
           |
          [PC] What?
                  |
                 T – I was caught outside late one night, not that the time really matters.
                       |
                      T – The young Nord asked what I was doing. So I pulled my dress down as I stood, turning to face him.
                             |
                            T – Ran a finger across his lips, and then shoved at least three into his mouth, running them over his tongue.
                                  |
                                 [PC] So you were...
                                         |
                                        T – Drying my slit, yes. 
                                               |
                                              T – Arguably my only good memory from those days.
                                                    |
                                                   T – Mostly because he was young and inexperienced, and from what I had heard, in a relationship with a Nord woman...
                                                          |
                                                         T - ...who was content to wait a year while their wedding was planned, to...engage in any kind of sex. 

 

                                 [PC] That is...disgusting.
                                         |
                                        T – He did not think so.