Fallout 4 Animation Modding (for modders and animators)

[MaikCG]

\data\Meshes\Actors\Character\Animations\MT\Player\PoseA_Idle1.hkx

[ShadeAnimator]

Yeh, No worries take yer time. 

What Version should we use 

Will 2016 do in general or is anyone using Max 2016 ?

 

Cheers

 

HCT2014 currently is only available for 3ds max up to 2015. 2016 and above are not supported. This is the only thing holding us from jumping to newer versions.

And just in case, if you have max 2015+, you can open the scene and save it for previous version.

 

Yeah, I also found a few naming bugs (head was not named properly) in the latest public release of the kit, and doing some other fixes and improvements as well. 

 

\data\Meshes\Actors\Character\Animations\MT\Player\PoseA_Idle1.hkx

 

Oh, so thats under MT. Do you happen to know what all these MT H2H and other abbreviations (abominations ) mean?

I tried at least a couple of PoseA_Idle1.hkx files, they all seemed similar and not what I needed. Will try this one too. Thanks.

 

And speaking of making a new skeleton, it seems you have more knowledge of HCT, any advice on how to approach exporting new animation skeleton? I see that skeleton.hkx file also contains either a ragdoll or ragdoll bindings, but I don't know how to import those into max, so that probably means that we'll have to recreate the ragdoll and a lot of other stuff or is there another approach? I mean we can always manually edit the xml of course...

[Hazraogh6]

 

Yeh, No worries take yer time. 

What Version should we use 

Will 2016 do in general or is anyone using Max 2016 ?

 

Cheers

 

HCT2014 currently is only available for 3ds max up to 2015. 2016 and above are not supported. This is the only thing holding us from jumping to newer versions.

And just in case, if you have max 2015+, you can open the scene and save it for previous version.

 

Yeah, I also found a few naming bugs (head was not named properly) in the latest public release of the kit, and doing some other fixes and improvements as well. 

 

\data\Meshes\Actors\Character\Animations\MT\Player\PoseA_Idle1.hkx

 

Oh, so thats under MT. Do you happen to know what all these MT H2H and other abbreviations (abominations ) mean?

I tried at least a couple of PoseA_Idle1.hkx files, they all seemed similar and not what I needed. Will try this one too. Thanks.

 

And speaking of making a new skeleton, it seems you have more knowledge of HCT, any advice on how to approach exporting new animation skeleton? I see that skeleton.hkx file also contains either a ragdoll or ragdoll bindings, but I don't know how to import those into max, so that probably means that we'll have to recreate the ragdoll and a lot of other stuff or is there another approach? I mean we can always manually edit the xml of course...

 

 

 

It's a mess all the files about anims  xD i extracted them all , take hours to find what i want lol

[mike24]

Hi everyone!!  The first, thank you for your hard work.

 

I would like import a RIG into the  blender but I have a problem. I cant import a "human_rig.FBX" into the blender with fbx, give me an error and the other file, "rig_01_base.FBX" appear a wepaon and one human rig very rare:

 

 

 

 

Someone can send me a human rig for blender Im very grateful. Thanks.

 

PS: I read in the tutorial that I can export  mine animations in fbx to 3d max and them follow the steps of this tutorial.

 

Sorry for my english.

[MaikCG]

1HM - one hand sword/knife
1HMShort - one hand fast attacks
2HM - two hand sword
2HMWide - two hand BIG
H2H - hand to hand, melee
MT - at the all previous games (oblivion, f3, f3nv, skyrim) prefix mt_ were specified as main animations for motion

[balthazard8888]

@Hazraogh6  since you posted those pictures would it be possible for you to make a mod where you can sneak up behind enemies and slit their throat if you don't get detected ? 

[ShadeAnimator]

Hi everyone!!  The first, thank you for your hard work.

 

I would like import a RIG into the  blender but I have a problem. I cant import a "human_rig.FBX" into the blender with fbx, give me an error and the other file, "rig_01_base.FBX" appear a wepaon and one human rig very rare:

 

 

Someone can send me a human rig for blender Im very grateful. Thanks.

 

PS: I read in the tutorial that I can export  mine animations in fbx to 3d max and them follow the steps of this tutorial.

 

Sorry for my english.

 

Oh, wow. Well, in the public release of the F4AK FBX files are not yet final, try the ones from F4Biped maybe?

If your still get the same result with huge bones, try changing their display settings, display size or something like that, I think it's just the blender visualization problem.

 

1HM - one hand sword/knife

1HMShort - one hand fast attacks

2HM - two hand sword

2HMWide - two hand BIG

H2H - hand to hand, melee

MT - at the all previous games (oblivion, f3, f3nv, skyrim) prefix mt_ were specified as main animations for motion

 

Thanks! Makes sense now. And this should probably be added to the guide as well.

[ShadeAnimator]

So, next MAJOR step is new skeleton. I'll post my thoughts about it here. Hopefully some experienced modders will also help or share their thoughts.

 

The first question is - how hard do we really need it? I saw that CBBE has breast and butt physics, and that is like 50% of what extended skeleton is used for Add same schlong physics, with ability to swap between "erect" and "flaccid" models, and thats basically it.

 

Because if there is no burning need for it, then I could focus on some other things for now.

 

But in any case I'd like some insight into how the skeleton is created.

So, while I'm not a newbie and know my way around with HCT and xml and rigging stuff, I'd appreciate any insight into the workflow and process of creating the skeleton from more experienced Beth-games modders, what needs to be done, how, etc. So I don't just go blindly stumbling through it all.

 

Right now I'm not sure if I only need new skeleton.hkx, or do I need to export new skeleton.nif as well? Though it's the least of problems.

 

The biggest problem for me right now is figuring out the correct way to approach exporting the .hkx, or editing it.

Right now I don't know how to import all the data into 3ds max from skeleton.hkx, if it is even possible. I have the skeleton from nif file, but form the skeleton.hkx's xml I see that there is a lot more data than just bones there. Ragdolls for example.

 

So, do I edit the xml file by hand in text editor, adding all the joints there?

Or do I add new Ragdoll in max, and export new hkx properly?

 

Or how do I approach it?

[Suke]

Shade have you guys ever thought about thigh physics at all or arm physics? Not sure if it is 100% needed but it would be pretty interesting.

[SquigglySwag]

Addressing the first question (as a humble user, not a modder):

I haven't seen a mod with working butt physics in FO4 yet. The alpha CBBE physics body (just breast physics) doesn't really work, though there have been unofficial improvements which do fix the major problem (clothing causing breast corruption). A skeleton (and whatever else required) that supports breast and butt (and belly and penis and possibly other?) physics would be a huge deal.

 

I know very little (ie nothing) about how body physics can or could work, so I don't even know if a skeleton would be required, or if the physics could be accomplished in a separate way. It seems like the current breast physics just rely on the body nif, but that would have limitations for clothed body physics.

[Ernest Lemmingway]

The more realistic the body physics are, the more detail the skeleton allows, the more "immersive" it will be. It doesn't matter how well you make a texture or animation if the meshes are horrible. Look at the vanilla ones and ask if there was more Bethesda could have done with them. The answer is a resounding "YES!!"

 

So a new skeleton by someone is all but vital.

[Guest kimbale]

So, next MAJOR step is new skeleton. I'll post my thoughts about it here. Hopefully some experienced modders will also help or share their thoughts.

 

The first question is - how hard do we really need it? I saw that CBBE has breast and butt physics, and that is like 50% of what extended skeleton is used for Add same schlong physics, with ability to swap between "erect" and "flaccid" models, and thats basically it.

 

Because if there is no burning need for it, then I could focus on some other things for now.

 

But in any case I'd like some insight into how the skeleton is created.

So, while I'm not a newbie and know my way around with HCT and xml and rigging stuff, I'd appreciate any insight into the workflow and process of creating the skeleton from more experienced Beth-games modders, what needs to be done, how, etc. So I don't just go blindly stumbling through it all.

 

Right now I'm not sure if I only need new skeleton.hkx, or do I need to export new skeleton.nif as well? Though it's the least of problems.

 

The biggest problem for me right now is figuring out the correct way to approach exporting the .hkx, or editing it.

Right now I don't know how to import all the data into 3ds max from skeleton.hkx, if it is even possible. I have the skeleton from nif file, but form the skeleton.hkx's xml I see that there is a lot more data than just bones there. Ragdolls for example.

 

So, do I edit the xml file by hand in text editor, adding all the joints there?

Or do I add new Ragdoll in max, and export new hkx properly?

 

Or how do I approach it?

 

Do we even need a new skeleton? It seems any "skeleton" asset can be attached to the base, it even seems to be possible to skin meshes to different attachments (ie swap bones, keep mesh).

 

Making a "new" skeleton would also lead to the problems Skyrim had: There will be incompatible animations, feature creep and all-around fuckery that someone needs to fix later (ty groov). I'd rather see a modular solution this time, so people can animate with the base skeleton without having to worry about their anims being broken later on.

Most things that "need a new skeleton" would be animated by the physics system - and i don't see any neccessity for them to be in the base skeleton if they can be attached. As far as i know, it's already done that way in vanilla, where Skyrim (eventually) had a ton of bones for skirts and the like, Fallout 4 has those in seperate files, all along with the physics data. 

From the little digging i did in the game files i guess attached things can be hand-animated as well, they will just have a root fixed to a bone on another model. 

 

We need to have more of a api or something i think, with the flavor animations and all this stacking it'll be more of a challenge to fight the state machine we can't see.

 

EDIT: For either and any of these we need some way to edit constraints  - and preferably cloth assets too. And not by editing xmls by hand, that's just too tedious for anyone to have fun with. Invalidfate may know how to do this, i haven't picked his physics things apart yet.

[mike24]

 

 

Oh, wow. Well, in the public release of the F4AK FBX files are not yet final, try the ones from F4Biped maybe?

If your still get the same result with huge bones, try changing their display settings, display size or something like that, I think it's just the blender visualization problem.

 

 

Ok. I will try again and them coment. Thanks!

[Hazraogh6]

@Hazraogh6  since you posted those pictures would it be possible for you to make a mod where you can sneak up behind enemies and slit their throat if you don't get detected ? 

 

I would love to comrade ,that's one of my killmoves projects but i can't for now beacause the victim dies before the end or the anim, or doesn't die at all xD, i can make paired anims but not killmoves yet,i'm stil looking to find a solution and when i can,i'll post a killmove set in nexus and here. Just need to wait a bit my friend I want true stealth kills too,don't wory xD

[ShadeAnimator]

 

So, next MAJOR step is new skeleton. I'll post my thoughts about it here. Hopefully some experienced modders will also help or share their thoughts.

 

The first question is - how hard do we really need it? I saw that CBBE has breast and butt physics, and that is like 50% of what extended skeleton is used for Add same schlong physics, with ability to swap between "erect" and "flaccid" models, and thats basically it.

 

Because if there is no burning need for it, then I could focus on some other things for now.

 

But in any case I'd like some insight into how the skeleton is created.

So, while I'm not a newbie and know my way around with HCT and xml and rigging stuff, I'd appreciate any insight into the workflow and process of creating the skeleton from more experienced Beth-games modders, what needs to be done, how, etc. So I don't just go blindly stumbling through it all.

 

Right now I'm not sure if I only need new skeleton.hkx, or do I need to export new skeleton.nif as well? Though it's the least of problems.

 

The biggest problem for me right now is figuring out the correct way to approach exporting the .hkx, or editing it.

Right now I don't know how to import all the data into 3ds max from skeleton.hkx, if it is even possible. I have the skeleton from nif file, but form the skeleton.hkx's xml I see that there is a lot more data than just bones there. Ragdolls for example.

 

So, do I edit the xml file by hand in text editor, adding all the joints there?

Or do I add new Ragdoll in max, and export new hkx properly?

 

Or how do I approach it?

 

Do we even need a new skeleton? It seems any "skeleton" asset can be attached to the base, it even seems to be possible to skin meshes to different attachments (ie swap bones, keep mesh).

 

Making a "new" skeleton would also lead to the problems Skyrim had: There will be incompatible animations, feature creep and all-around fuckery that someone needs to fix later (ty groov). I'd rather see a modular solution this time, so people can animate with the base skeleton without having to worry about their anims being broken later on.

Most things that "need a new skeleton" would be animated by the physics system - and i don't see any neccessity for them to be in the base skeleton if they can be attached. As far as i know, it's already done that way in vanilla, where Skyrim (eventually) had a ton of bones for skirts and the like, Fallout 4 has those in seperate files, all along with the physics data. 

From the little digging i did in the game files i guess attached things can be hand-animated as well, they will just have a root fixed to a bone on another model. 

 

We need to have more of a api or something i think, with the flavor animations and all this stacking it'll be more of a challenge to fight the state machine we can't see.

 

EDIT: For either and any of these we need some way to edit constraints  - and preferably cloth assets too. And not by editing xmls by hand, that's just too tedious for anyone to have fun with. Invalidfate may know how to do this, i haven't picked his physics things apart yet.

 

 

Well, it is possible to create new rbd objects, ragdoll and constraints using Havok Content Tools. But it can't import existing vanilla physics objects and constraints. 

 

I actually support modular approach. Well, compatibility of animations should be ok, as far as the base hierarchy stays the same. If an animation has some joints that current skeleton does not have - they will just be ignored. And vice versa. At least that's how it should work. And how it worked in the end with XPMS, if I remember it right. But if we can leave the basic skeleton as is, and just add something into the mesh.nif files, that's awesome.

 

Personally I'm ok with leaving breast, schlong, butt, thigh and other such things to physics simulation, and not animating them manually.

 

Though we still would probably want to create new creatures, hm?

 

EDIT:

 

Well, yes, I checked clothes files, and they all have additional joints in them. Bathrobe for example has a lot of joints for the 'skirt'. Guess they are simulated. I did not find any animation files for it though. So yes, probably just simulation.

 

And they also seem to only have the joints required for them to work. For example "hats" have only these:

Neck_skin

Neck1_skin

Head_skin

 

and thats all the joints there are for hat. It's actually a logical way for clothing system. They probably just snap joints with the same names into the joints of the base skeleton. So, everything else, any additional joints will drag along by physics constraints? 

Bathrobe's joints have no hierarchy...

[balthazard8888]

Are you guys saying for sex animation it is now possible to animate breast and ass bouncing as well as the penis flaccid/errect state and the opening and closing of the vulva ?

[pipdude]

 

So, do I edit the xml file by hand in text editor, adding all the joints there?

 

 

Based on memory of some discussions I had, I believe that is the way that it was done in Skyrim. Editing the xml directly.

 

Shade have you guys ever thought about thigh physics at all or arm physics? Not sure if it is 100% needed but it would be pretty interesting.

 

I second this. It would be pretty interesting to see physics applied to skin beyond breast and butt if it can be done.

 

One example, a lot of focus has been made on an "opening" vagina. But, I think realism would go farther just by applying subtle physics to skin movement in that area.

 

 

Do we even need a new skeleton? It seems any "skeleton" asset can be attached to the base, it even seems to be possible to skin meshes to different attachments (ie swap bones, keep mesh).

 

 

A modular approach sounds great. I would add that maintaining a widely used skeleton mod is by itself a big undertaking. It kept a few people busy for years in Skyrim.

 

That said, my concern about a modular approach is that it might be more complex to use and thus deter would-be modders. If it can be utilized and tutorialized just as easy as a base-skeleton approach, that would be great. But, the complexity of making content mods for Skyrim was already enough to limit content-makers to a pretty small pool.

 

Maybe a middle-ground approach would be to go modular but have tutorial files prepped with the "standard" modular items (a schlong for example) already built in and ready to use.

 

 

Personally I'm ok with leaving breast, schlong, butt, thigh and other such things to physics simulation, and not animating them manually.

 

 

I agree on breasts, butt, thigh, etc. But, as someone who has tried to make animations in Skyrim, I don't agree about the schlong. Having that in a static angle is very limiting toward what animations can be done. And it conflicts with the mechanics of how sex works in many positions. For example, in just a basic missionary position, the schlong's angle in relationship to the hips changes with each thrust. The static problem forces animators to use cheats with weird back-hunching and unnatural hip rotation to avoid a schlong thats swinging out of where its supposed to be.

[ShadeAnimator]

Are you guys saying for sex animation it is now possible to animate breast and ass bouncing as well as the penis flaccid/errect state and the opening and closing of the vulva ?

 

Nope, not yet, though you can take a look at CBBE breast physics, which adds some dynamics to tits, to they will jiggle. We're currently discussing the possbility of adding more of it to the game.

 

 

 

So, do I edit the xml file by hand in text editor, adding all the joints there?

 

 

Based on memory of some discussions I had, I believe that is the way that it was done in Skyrim. Editing the xml directly.

 

Shade have you guys ever thought about thigh physics at all or arm physics? Not sure if it is 100% needed but it would be pretty interesting.

 

I second this. It would be pretty interesting to see physics applied to skin beyond breast and butt if it can be done.

 

One example, a lot of focus has been made on an "opening" vagina. But, I think realism would go farther just by applying subtle physics to skin movement in that area.

 

 

Do we even need a new skeleton? It seems any "skeleton" asset can be attached to the base, it even seems to be possible to skin meshes to different attachments (ie swap bones, keep mesh).

 

 

A modular approach sounds great. I would add that maintaining a widely used skeleton mod is by itself a big undertaking. It kept a few people busy for years in Skyrim.

 

That said, my concern about a modular approach is that it might be more complex to use and thus deter would-be modders. If it can be utilized and tutorialized just as easy as a base-skeleton approach, that would be great. But, the complexity of making content mods for Skyrim was already enough to limit content-makers to a pretty small pool.

 

Maybe a middle-ground approach would be to go modular but have tutorial files prepped with the "standard" modular items (a schlong for example) already built in and ready to use.

 

 

Personally I'm ok with leaving breast, schlong, butt, thigh and other such things to physics simulation, and not animating them manually.

 

 

I agree on breasts, butt, thigh, etc. But, as someone who has tried to make animations in Skyrim, I don't agree about the schlong. Having that in a static angle is very limiting toward what animations can be done. And it conflicts with the mechanics of how sex works in many positions. For example, in just a basic missionary position, the schlong's angle in relationship to the hips changes with each thrust. The static problem forces animators to use cheats with weird back-hunching and unnatural hip rotation to avoid a schlong thats swinging out of where its supposed to be.

 

 

Yes, I'm trying to make the guide easy to be understood by most, with at least some knowledge of 3d and animation, and the kit to have everything they need. So if we ever add a separate schlong, it will be included in the rig scene with instructions on how to animate it.

 

Agree about the schlong.

[pipdude]

 

Yes, I'm trying to make the guide easy to be understood by most, with at least some knowledge of 3d and animation, and the kit to have everything they need. So if we ever add a separate schlong, it will be included in the rig scene with instructions on how to animate it.

 

Sounds amazing. What you've already done is better put together and documented than what we had in Skyrim, imo.

[JohnHead444]

As far as skyrim f03\NV went you would need to export the new bones out of 3dmax or blend. Then copy and paste them into the existing skely.  Don't no how 3dmax work as of yet. But in blender you would export the skeleton with out any mesh attached to get the skeleton.nif new bones. Then export with a mesh attached to the skeleton to get the body mesh bones. You need both nifs with the new bones and any new bone that's going to be animated added to the hkx either through havoc or manually.  The game should be the same that it needs three different files to read so the new bones actualy animate. Other wise they do nothing or pull into infinity and beyond. Any hoo. I no one person that no's this way better then I do but haven't seen any post from them about FO4. Hope this helps.

[mike24]

How I can import directly  a rig with meshes of game  into the blender?

[ShadeAnimator]

You'll need to export fbx from 3ds max and import into blender. You can try using F4Biped's FBX files for now. I will only add working FBX files in next release. Right now they... well, they should be ok, but can be broken, did not test them.

 

As for 'without max' well, you'll have to import skeleton.nif file and any meshes, if there is a nif import plugin for blender.

[mike24]

You'll need to export fbx from 3ds max and import into blender. You can try using F4Biped's FBX files for now. I will only add working FBX files in next release. Right now they... well, they should be ok, but can be broken, did not test them.

 

As for 'without max' well, you'll have to import skeleton.nif file and any meshes, if there is a nif import plugin for blender.

 

I try with F4biped and have the same result... I think  maybe it depends of version of  Blender. The FBX import/export is a recent in Blender (I guess) and  maybe not working correclty. (Im working with many versions)

 

BLENDER V 2.77a (last version)

 

Now with a pistol (WTF): (the same look how the FBX rigs files  of the tutorial)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blender V 2.70: (Now only import the meshes, not skeleton, and the gun too but now its  a very little, it is into her head xD)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blender V 2.67b (not have FBX import/export) I think below versions havent got Import/export FBX. Maybe I need to try tested with more versions.. 

 

 

[ShadeAnimator]

What if you ignore how the gun model looks? Just delete it. And the bones, well, try to find a way to change the way they are displayed, into a hierarchical view or changing their visual size (not real scale). 

 

Apart from the gun scale problem, I don't really see the problems on the screenshots. Bones are huge, but well, as long as their positions and rotations are correct, that does not matter.

[mike24]

What if you ignore how the gun model looks? Just delete it. And the bones, well, try to find a way to change the way they are displayed, into a hierarchical view or changing their visual size (not real scale). 

 

Apart from the gun scale problem, I don't really see the problems on the screenshots. Bones are huge, but well, as long as their positions and rotations are correct, that does not matter.

 

 

Ok. Dont worry about.