Fallout 4 Animation Modding (for modders and animators)

[ShadeAnimator]

All good then, though the body mesh is is already cluttered with weights thanks to the _skin bones, i doubt we will be able to make any significant changes without getting rid of them (meaning no body morph in game, which might not be such a bad thing..).

 

Also there is something else, if something will make use of physics, then you don't want them in the .hkx (as it interferes (at least it did in skyrim)) so anything not intended to make use of animations probably don't need to be added to either the skeleton .nif or .hkx as the skeleton data will be in the meshes nif (like all the dress do)

 

Though, an idea (if its not an animated tail), what if you had a tail nub? a bone that modders (assuming we ever get access to the physics) can attach their tail to (as the static root) and then they can add as many bones (debris (or their own static root)) as they want or need, that way you could also move the node on the skeleton to position all tail mods.

 

 

I do have a question that has something to do with animation, though (probably a stupid one) in max the skeleton in the scene, does it have to meet these 3 criteria?

1, Is a bone object

2, Have the correct names (as it is in the rig.txt)

3, Has the same hierarchy (as it is in the skeleton.nif)

 

Its mostly 3 i'm interested in, does the skeleton.hkx not have the hierarchy, constraints and bone local axis/position in it?

And does an animation.hkx have any of that data or does it get it from the skeleton hkx (kinda like nif's) and all that needs to be in there is bone names and in the right order? Orientation? (and the animation..)

 

Trying to gauge how much flexibility i would have with the skeleton in the max scene.

Guessing that HCT would need it in the right hierarchy to export correctly?

 

Well, I checked joints. Here are numbers:

• TOTAL: 146
• INFLUENCING SKIN (Main body): 60
• CONTROL-ONLY: 86

Skeleton.HKX file only containt control joints. Some of control joints are among those 60 joints, like toes for example. As you said.

 

So, this means that in fact we only have 60 joints right now influencing skinning. Which is good, since we only really care about those joints for performance, and joints with animation keyframes, but they are somewhat separate.

 

But I guess we better not touch them. But if they are only scaled, then we can probably add joints above them in hierarchy, reparenting _skin joints to new ones. But we won't really be able to change number of joints influencing, say, breasts, at least not without modifying all 34 .txt files with scale information. That would be tedious.

--

 

Yes, I just suggested solution with 'socket\root' joints for tails, schlongs. But it means that we won't be able to animate it through animation, only physics. Which I'd personally prefer, but then we won't be able to use the tail in, say, kinky situations

 

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1, I don't think it matters. Not sure though. Easy to test.

2, This matters. A lot. Otherwise the joint will not be exported at all. It's animation at least.

3, Not sure about this. I think it matters. At least for backwards-compatibility. If you change hierarchy of joints in skeleton.nif, it will break existing animations. If you create animation with incorrect hierarchy, it will most likely not look correctly with the hierarchy from skeleton.nif. Because animation rotations in engines are, in local space. Meaning that they depend on parent rotation. I don't think Bethesda decided to change that in their engine.

 

 

Another thing, guys:

 

I'm thinking about making extending skeleton. Like that xp32 did.

But I need to know what is required in it.

 

Obviously - butt and breast joints. Maybe tail. Maybe wings. What else?

 

Also, DexesTTP, CPU and anyone else knowing anything about this - are there any limitations on joint count in Fallout 4? Other than "staying reasonable"? Because I can easily go with adding hundreeds of new joints, adding not just 2 bones for boobs, but like 10, to allow their deformations, etc. 

 

If animated NSFW action is the current goal, it seems like a schlong is needed.

 

In Skyrim, there was a system with separate animation files handling schlongs independently from the body animations. It made it so that, at least as far as I figured out, the schlong couldn't be re-angled, etc. in body animations. For NSFW scenes that was pretty limiting. Some hacks could be done to change angle with script. But, ideally, that would all be done as part of the body animations. Is that possible?

 

I guess the trouble is that there are many cases where a modder might want to control just the schlong independently regardless of what the character is doing at the moment... Maybe you know some wizardry solution that is the best of both uses..

 

 

Well, it could be possible to use so called 'socket' system for this.

Basically it means that the main skeleton will have a separate 'schlong' joint (actually i think it might be a good idea to just call it like that... ). Then the actualy separately-rigged schlong with more joints is attached to it. So it will be possible to create animation for it separately (for example it's 'states'), and still control the overall angling of it from the character animation. But it will require to more or less stay in sync. For example it'll mean that preferably animations of the schlong should not change it's angle. 

 

Another trick is using animation layers with masking. From what I see, Fallout 4 animation system supports it (finger positions are blocked in a pose if you're holding a gun, which overrides main animation as example). And lets be honest, every modern game uses it. This is actually a much more flexible solution. So, the skeleton may have all the joints. Say, 2-3 for schlong to bend it. Main animation can control it. But there can also be a separate animation, where just the schlong is animated. So then, using layers, scripter can override animation on joints of our schlong only with that other animation. Easy as that. In theory. I don't know how to do that in practice using the tools we have. Someone need to research this from CK side, I think.

[ousnius]

You should also keep in mind that there is a 4 bone per vertex limit, that is only 4 bones can affect 1 vertex.

If you go over that limit you will end up with graphical artefacts in game being the most common, as well as other problems (the 5th (lowest) weight not affecting the mesh for instance)

 

Also if you are going to be messing with the skeleton, for the love of god don't change any of the (vanilla bone) limb length or scale.

That just makes everyone's life hard.

 

While in Skyrim it was at least possible to go over the 4 bones per vertex limit (even though it didn't work well), in FO4 it's not even possible.

The weights are stored in the BSTriShapes themselves now, and the values are fixed to 4. Not less and not more, always 4.

[balthazard8888]

 

 

I could also add fleshy bones. For bellies for example. Hm...

 

Well, I'm not sure how exactly to export all that yet. skeleton.nif is probably easy to export, with niftools. skeleton.hkx? Well that will take some time to find right settings.

 

And also ill need to skin a model and export it to test too... hmm... well, we'll see. getting late in here. 

 

 

For sure people will wish for Tits, Butt, and Belly.

I could not care less, so I never went too much inside this.

 

 

Penis bones would be nice.

 

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[pipdude]

 

Well, it could be possible to use so called 'socket' system for this.

Basically it means that the main skeleton will have a separate 'schlong' joint (actually i think it might be a good idea to just call it like that... ). Then the actualy separately-rigged schlong with more joints is attached to it. So it will be possible to create animation for it separately (for example it's 'states'), and still control the overall angling of it from the character animation. But it will require to more or less stay in sync. For example it'll mean that preferably animations of the schlong should not change it's angle. 

 

Another trick is using animation layers with masking. From what I see, Fallout 4 animation system supports it (finger positions are blocked in a pose if you're holding a gun, which overrides main animation as example). And lets be honest, every modern game uses it. This is actually a much more flexible solution. So, the skeleton may have all the joints. Say, 2-3 for schlong to bend it. Main animation can control it. But there can also be a separate animation, where just the schlong is animated. So then, using layers, scripter can override animation on joints of our schlong only with that other animation. Easy as that. In theory. I don't know how to do that in practice using the tools we have. Someone need to research this from CK side, I think.

 

 

I'll take a closer look at the CK to see if there is an indication of where that would fit in. Sounds like a great solution if we can get it to work.

 

From memory, I know there are "animVars" that may be related to this. I never quite understood how those were used.

[ShadeAnimator]

 

You should also keep in mind that there is a 4 bone per vertex limit, that is only 4 bones can affect 1 vertex.

If you go over that limit you will end up with graphical artefacts in game being the most common, as well as other problems (the 5th (lowest) weight not affecting the mesh for instance)

 

Also if you are going to be messing with the skeleton, for the love of god don't change any of the (vanilla bone) limb length or scale.

That just makes everyone's life hard.

 

While in Skyrim it was at least possible to go over the 4 bones per vertex limit (even though it didn't work well), in FO4 it's not even possible.

The weights are stored in the BSTriShapes themselves now, and the values are fixed to 4. Not less and not more, always 4.

 

 

4 is a common limit in games nowadays. It's more than enough for almost all standard and even some non standard use of skinning.

[volfin]

 

4 is a common limit in games nowadays. It's more than enough for almost all standard and even some non standard use of skinning.

 

 

Just for trivia sake, but the recent game "Quantum Break", has an 8 weights per vertex limit. but I suspect the reason is, their skeleton had over 800 bones, half of those being in the face alone. It's a rather ridiculously detailed rig.

[Reavers Avarice]

ShadeAnimator does...does this mean you are the chosen one that will bring the jiggles back to the tits of the wasteland? if so screw the Children of Atom we need a Children Of Shade The God Of Tits And Ass  O___O

[MaikCG]

Why dragon age 3?

 

Well, I hate it too, but in my experience I like it more than Biped.

 

I participated in the creation of, there were so many hemorrhoids at some things..

 

Obviously - butt and breast joints. Maybe tail. Maybe wings. What else?

 

and i'm not going to touch anything vanilla, only adding. And no, not breaking the hierarchy.

 

Knees and elbows, but for these need to break vanilla skeleton

 

I do have a question that has something to do with animation, though (probably a stupid one) in max the skeleton in the scene, does it have to meet these 3 criteria?

1, Is a bone object

2, Have the correct names (as it is in the rig.txt)

3, Has the same hierarchy (as it is in the skeleton.nif)

 

Its mostly 3 i'm interested in, does the skeleton.hkx not have the hierarchy, constraints and bone local axis/position in it?

And does an animation.hkx have any of that data or does it get it from the skeleton hkx (kinda like nif's) and all that needs to be in there is bone names and in the right order? Orientation? (and the animation..)

 

Trying to gauge how much flexibility i would have with the skeleton in the max scene.

Guessing that HCT would need it in the right hierarchy to export correctly?

 

1. bone is not obligatory

For skyrim i made skeleton from point helpers and link to control rig. This allowed the use mirror in the skin modifier. Later i used it to create fix for DDi3 animation and it works good. For F4 I also replaced the six bones to point helpers and it works

2 and 3 yes, must comply

 

name and order animation track (kept in animation files) pick from skeleton.hkx in HEX-view. name sensitive to uppercase

stance pose and hierarchy pick from skeleton.nif

[pipdude]

 

Someone need to research this from CK side, I think.

 

The animations window in the CK. It's great that they made it functional. But, it is pretty bare bones (see attached pic of it). That's pretty much all you get in the CK for animations. Right-clicking the nodes allows you to add new child anims to the graph, etc.

 

Could the subgraph system accomplish the layering? So, if the proper variable is switched it plays a child subgraph animation (which might only be a few nodes) over its parent?

 

I had thought that the sub animations were whole and just used for different states.

 

I also see the check box for "blocking". I had assumed that meant for blocking in a melee combat sense. But, maybe that can indicate a layer as you describe?

[Miarc007]

Has anyone heard of Clams of skyrim? awhile ago Scivirus had a go at animating a vagina and anus.

 

Would he have any ideas that would help?

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/45251-clams-of-skyrim-project-by-scivirus/

http://www.loverslab.com/files/file/1829-clams-of-skyrim-project-by-scivirus/

 

[loverlu]

HCT 2014 nowhere ...

 

Looked all over Google but no luck.

[MaikCG]

ShadeAnimator

CAT twist for UpperArm never worked correctly, it's work when you X-axis turn elboy, but for all elbow bend only Z-axis, turn to IK (and Use Up Node for arm) - in this case twist upperarm don't work, but that's how works hand in game. for UpperArm Twists need handmade controller

 

and use cm instead inch. it was in all the games Bethesda

[Claysson2]

What about F4SE ? Will it be needed?

[ShadeAnimator]

ShadeAnimator

CAT twist for UpperArm never worked correctly, it's work when you X-axis turn elboy, but for all elbow bend only Z-axis, turn to IK (and Use Up Node for arm) - in this case twist upperarm don't work, but that's how works hand in game. for UpperArm Twists need handmade controller

 

and use cm instead inch. it was in all the games Bethesda

 

Yeah, still working on on the rig, there are no twists in the upper arm yet. Please write me all that in russian in pm, i did not understand how you think upper arm twists are supposed to work.

 

My scene is in inch? shit... I always work with cm, probably forgot to change it, thx

[Guest]

What about F4SE ? Will it be needed?

 

No.

At least not now.

 

Everything we need from a scripting point of view is already available. At least for basic mods. But for sure it is not required for animations.

[MaikCG]

The first tiwst bone not rotate by X-axis or just a little bit, usually I leave a little bit. For biped everything ready by default, but for everything else we have to put additional control.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6P-oxzPbg

[balthazard8888]

So will this approach also help make new custom first person weapon animations possible ?

[ShadeAnimator]

So will this approach also help make new custom first person weapon animations possible ?

 

Almost same thing, just with some specifics to import character+weapon into the scene, and to export them into separate files. We're still working on details about that. Either me or MaikCG should research it soon.

[Saru]

Just grabbed the F4Biped to check it out, forgive me for being stupid but all I get is a mesh when I open the .max file, no skeleton/rig to work with:

 

 

What do I need to do to fix this?

[MaikCG]

What do I need to do to fix this?

 

learning 3dmax.

It's just hidden layers

 

[Saru]

 

learning 3dmax.

 

 

It's been a long day. Thanks.

[ShadeAnimator]

The first tiwst bone not rotate by X-axis or just a little bit, usually I leave a little bit. For biped everything ready by default, but for everything else we have to put additional control.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz6P-oxzPbg

 

Well, I'll test CAT's shoulder's X rotation twisting, if it's broken, making custom one is not that hard.

 

So, you mean that CAT's shoulder twist is broken when using IK? Or something else?

And did you test it in Max2015? From what I remember, CAT has a lot of bugfixes in each version from 2013 up to 2015, with 2015 and 2016 being quite stable and reliable. I've been working with max 2015's cat for quite some time in production

[MaikCG]

So will this approach also help make new custom first person weapon animations possible ?

 

Winter Is Coming! I have successfully imported and exported animation for 1st view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucUEBfNH7gs

[ShadeAnimator]

Cool! Please, describe the process details, so I can add it to the guide. 

 

And I'm thinking about moving the guide into one place, so I don't have to maintain it in current 4 places, especially since formatting is different:

• LL forum
• Nexus forum
• Nexus mod page
• txt file inside the kit

Can anyone suggest the best single place to put it into? Thought about a PDF on nexus, and wiki on nexus, but nexus wiki does not allow to create new pages now for some reason.

 

Or is there a good reason for me to keep it in all these places?

[Guest]

Cool! Please, describe the process details, so I can add it to the guide. 

 

And I'm thinking about moving the guide into one place, so I don't have to maintain it in current 4 places, especially since formatting is different:

• LL forum
• Nexus forum
• Nexus mod page
• txt file inside the kit

Can anyone suggest the best single place to put it into? Thought about a PDF on nexus, and wiki on nexus, but nexus wiki does not allow to create new pages now for some reason.

 

Or is there a good reason for me to keep it in all these places?

 

I had many times the same problem.

 

Right now I do two things:

1) One main page on LoversLab, that give good formatting abilities and also pictures inlining.

2) Then I convert it to PDF and post on Nexus.

 

Right now I am also starting to use GitLab, especially the Wiki section. But this is a little bit too much in my mind.