Why do people continue to mod Bethesda games?

[Tabris666]

Why would you buy a game if you are going to complain.

Look the games have plenty enough reasons to mod it but your point is completelly different to the question you made.

Why people mod a game is simple is because the game has either beautyfull graphics and a nightmare of gameplay or null gameplay (Gta saga) or have an awesome gameplay but the graphics arent atractive (female chars look like men ohh i forgot that is something normal in most american games) this is why games are modded

The bethesda games have an awesome gameplay and the graphics arent that bad are really well balanced,but most new age so called gamers will always complain comparing this game to that game but every game is different it isnt like minecraft that is just a gameplay ripoff of several popular games pull together so you cant compare those each has their strong points,just think that watch dogs had awesome graphics but people still complained some because they lacked on the hardware or others because they wanted more and using excuses.

If you have a crash use the console it will help you if you are a modder because bethesda made the console for people that wants to mod the game if you dont know how to use it is your problem because you didnt know what to do in the first place,is like modding a game that has the most bugged hacked engine version (gta sa) while you can make awesome stuff if you are unaware of the limits of the engine then simply learn about the engine and what you can do and what not is simple.

[d2unite]

Personally I'd like to bring up that from my perspective as a gamer I've never found the Bethesda games to be really excessively buggy in comparison to other even non open world games. Bugs are a natural part of any kind of software development and depending on the application you're always going to reach a point where it just no longer makes sense to continue trying to stamp out a bug. As far as the modding goes I think it's a combination of Bethesda sticking to a relatively well explored and open engine and creation system and just that Bethesda tends to maintain an environment towards modders that while not always ideal isn't combative or hostile. Finally, while this is just subjective opinion, I'd like to say that myself as a player have never been disappointed or unhappy with a Bethesda game. Yes, they've made decisions I've not always agreed with or liked, but on the whole I can't say I've ever had anywhere near the kind of dislike or vitriol others have had towards them.

I dont know if you played Skyrim as it came out. It was filled with quite bad frame rate issues, freezes/crashes, NPC's that'd just disappear, many glitches in the game and when it came out it felt more like a console port than a PC game. Oblivion was also quite buggy and was fixed by community pretty fast. 

 

I think the modding community should be applauded and hailed as heroes for making Skyrim the game it is today and keeping it alive.

 

Edit: I notice this is a long running thread and same arguments been thrown back and forth so I apologize if this is all repeated again. I dont dislike Bethesda, I love Bethesda games but I also know that I shouldn't expect too much from Bethesda game until the modding community got their hands on it

[redeyesandlonghair]

I mean seriously.

Every game that comes from them is more bugged than the other.

No quality control at all.  

And it's clear that they don't give a s*** about the community. A community which is the reason why their games are popular.

I mean, I just plain disagree with everything you wrote there... so that should start to give you an idea of how my answer to your question begins.

[isahale]

 

Personally I'd like to bring up that from my perspective as a gamer I've never found the Bethesda games to be really excessively buggy in comparison to other even non open world games. Bugs are a natural part of any kind of software development and depending on the application you're always going to reach a point where it just no longer makes sense to continue trying to stamp out a bug. As far as the modding goes I think it's a combination of Bethesda sticking to a relatively well explored and open engine and creation system and just that Bethesda tends to maintain an environment towards modders that while not always ideal isn't combative or hostile. Finally, while this is just subjective opinion, I'd like to say that myself as a player have never been disappointed or unhappy with a Bethesda game. Yes, they've made decisions I've not always agreed with or liked, but on the whole I can't say I've ever had anywhere near the kind of dislike or vitriol others have had towards them.

I dont know if you played Skyrim as it came out. It was filled with quite bad frame rate issues, freezes/crashes, NPC's that'd just disappear, many glitches in the game and when it came out it felt more like a console port than a PC game. Oblivion was also quite buggy and was fixed by community pretty fast. 

 

I think the modding community should be applauded and hailed as heroes for making Skyrim the game it is today and keeping it alive.

 

Edit: I notice this is a long running thread and same arguments been thrown back and forth so I apologize if this is all repeated again. I dont dislike Bethesda, I love Bethesda games but I also know that I shouldn't expect too much from Bethesda game until the modding community got their hands on it

 

 

I've played Fallout 3, Fallout 4, and Skryim all within a 2-3 days of release and never had any unbearable bugs that I can recall. I grant you different people have different definitions of what unbearable means.

[BeowulfMKII]

 

I mean seriously.

Every game that comes from them is more bugged than the other.

No quality control at all.  

And it's clear that they don't give a s*** about the community. A community which is the reason why their games are popular.

I mean, I just plain disagree with everything you wrote there... so that should start to give you an idea of how my answer to your question begins.

 

Whether you disagree or not doesn't make what i said (the part that you quoted) false.

 

If what i said is false, then why did the current version of the USLEEP (3.0.5) fixed more than TWENTY THOUSAND BUGS?

 

This clearly demonstrates that my points are valid.

 

[I'm The Wabbit]

It is true that Bestheda wouldn't be alive (or doing well) if it wasn't for the community and modding. That alone is such a scary truth.

[Guest Rhubarbe]

I guess it's because they have to meet deadlines and they have a budget and what not. 

[redeyesandlonghair]

 

 

I mean seriously.

Every game that comes from them is more bugged than the other.

No quality control at all.  

And it's clear that they don't give a s*** about the community. A community which is the reason why their games are popular.

I mean, I just plain disagree with everything you wrote there... so that should start to give you an idea of how my answer to your question begins.

 

Whether you disagree or not doesn't make what i said (the part that you quoted) false.

 

If what i said is false, then why did the current version of the USLEEP (3.0.5) fixed more than TWENTY THOUSAND BUGS?

 

This clearly demonstrates that my points are valid.

 

 

No, none of those points were valid.  It's just more of the hip, youtube reviewer fed cynicism that is so popular right now.  Everything I quoted there is completely false.  It's no secret that Bethesda have a symbiotic relationship with their modding community, but that in no way proves anything you said correct; in fact, it proves you completely wrong when you say they don't care about their community.  Their games were popular on consoles previous to Fallout 4 ( I played both Morrowind and Oblivion on console first ), which shows that the modding community is not the reason that they are popular.  As for the claim of no quality control, proven completely false by the rather sterling launch of Fallout 4 - I bought it right away, downloaded it that day, and started playing immediately and by the end of the first week had about 70 hours put in and only encountered 1 bug.  So as you can see, once you look at the facts, your statements are proven false.

[Hayleyrose2323]

It's a pretty simple answer. 

They're good games. Shocking isn't it.

I mean no matter how disappointing a game is (Fallout 4) I can still have fun with it. I mean its a open world game made by bethesda. There is always some fun to be had. And even more with mods. Nothings perfect and mistakes are made everyday, especially with games. I won't lie, I have lost some respect for bethesda over a few decisions but at the same time, I have to look back at all the fun and great times I have had because of them. Skyrim and new vegas will always be my favorites. 

And with the games being so open and creative the possibility is endless. 

 

Honestly just by looking around at all the mods available it should have been very simple to understand Why. I mean if you wanna share your opinions and just go on a rant(which you totally did) thats cool, but you're just going the extra mile now and I'm starting to get a feeling this was made not just to rant but to stir some stuff up.

[Love Space]

Modding Fallout NV and Skyrim gives me something to do, to test my knowledge, I test 1 mod to see if it crashes or not, so far I've not get problems. (Only on FO3)

Fallout 4 however crashes without any mods so I can only ask why people mod Fallout 4. I don't see myself modding a game that's broken. Launch game>CTD>Repeat till playable. But wait.

Die a couple time> load game> CTD. Fallout 4 is the only game I dont understand why would anyone will mod. (If my English is understandable.)

[lordgdavid]

It's kinda complex issue, which has several variables, mainly in relation to how people react to games by todays standards (or lack of standard, bu-dum-tish).

 

More then anything, it's because people are beasts of habit, thats it, they cannot adapt or even imagine working on another game or series (kinda like those people who keep on replaying Dark Souls only, even if they finished for the 200th time, and did a no death/bonfire run, they still keep on playin the game like it's the last game on the planet), even if they could very easily cobble together a sex game in another engine without a single bug (I guess having prefabs also doesn't hurt, although considering the amount of content for Beth's games that are direct ports from another game, it shouldn't matter to the modding community + Patreon), I guess the basic are there for the world, which could give someone a head start, but I wouldn't exactly call buggy, ported clothes with no physics and no modding points a head start in any way or form for modding.

 

Basically there is a playing field already there, that is what could be the enticing factor for people (or at least, one of them).

 

Also, it suffers from Big Legacy syndrome. Even if a game isn't good, it will still sell today due to "too big to fail" (Steam Greenlight should be example enough) idealogy, when you have 7 billion people across the world, and at least several hundred million of those have access to the internet and are interested in video-games, even selling to 1% of those people will recoup the game and make it a best seller, like it or not. The quality control from the consumer simply isn't there any more (reference this to the 90's, when women would strike and no buy eggs if the price slightly increased, forcing it come down again compared today where people spend hundreds on a kickstarter for a mobile phone controlled coffee maker without coffee making), where something like 1 millions units was a break it or make it result.

Plus being the second, third or fourth game of a franchise will make  sure it has a head start out of the window. I'm pretty sure if someone decided to make what is essentially Fallout 2.0 in their own way and own Lore, it wouldn't sell a 1/10 of what Fallout 4 did, because again, people like Legacy and people like what they know and won't play the other game, even if it's  better (compare to Destiny and Warframe for example, or League and Dota 2 in Chinese Market, even Torchlight/POE vs. D3 release setup). Hell, even WatchDogs and many of other Ubisofts games show the issue correctly, even as back in the 90 and early 2000's we had the DriverGate drama with Atari.

 

Think of if this way, the game might be the worst game in existance, but you'll think to yourself "What does it matter if I buy it? I'm only one person, I cannot make a difference, so I might as well buy it", this eventually snowballs if every other people think the same way, leading to a third point, where sometimes due to lack of caring, a game which doesn't have quality to it in any capacity (or lower capacity) ends up breaking even. You can mainly see this issue in games like Warframe and ingame markets, where developers take advtange on selling expensive stuff, even it's not good, because everyone thinks they cannot make a difference for the better, so they migh as well invest their money in it, even if in turn damages the potential buying capacity of other people.

 

Also, about other games, kinda wrong. Bethesda didn't really provide anything, so I fail to see how they are much better at modding. The only reason for this spear headed modding attitude is because they used the same GameBryo engine that a million Korean MMO companies did back in those days, which the tools were leaked (some of them were literally open uploaded on SourceForge back the in day), and the reverse engineering formats were easy to...well, reverse (I mean some of them are literally uncompressed code, no hidding stuff behind a crappy little password in the .exe file and some of the original people that worked on GameBryo are the main providers of said tools), not to mention, some of them literally had just number changes (oh, cannot open Morrowind Nif file? Just change the header from version 1.2 to version 1.3, literally and voila, file opens now).

I mean people made some really decent sexy mods for Witcher and Dragon Age Origins with full on sexy-time, and even modded Dark Souls for new models, but fell out of it because life took over and they have jobs, and don't have the larger userbase to keep on working for it if one users stops working. Witcher already has the sexy-time in it, but people simply aren't interested in expanding on it, other then maybe the few mods that did for the first Witcher game (again, people simply having a life on a smaller userbase) plus the entire drama about Witcher 1 getting a Remaster which was split into a million different versions (EU vs. US vs. International vs. Patches vs. Expansion, etc), and Dragon Age Origins, while still having said mods really didn't expand outside of 'lolz, random buttsecks with giant men using armor as body condom' (again, smaller userbase) due to aformentioned issues.

Dark Souls is a sour point, because modding weapon model is actually easy, just the people who worked on it have been hired or are working now full-time jobs in Kickstarted and Patreon projects, of course they are not going to spend a minute more creating a suite to mod the game (especially if bans are involved a la DS2).

 

TL;DR: We can delve into a full on essay about loads of things, such as Socio-Economic status and time investment on how a game is presented to the userbase (ei; our game is worth 60$, but you will get million of hours of gameplay out of it - today young people go out less, invest in less social captical to digital capital, as seen by how much movies make in the NA market vs. Chinese on brand name and importtance, etc) to how it's Legacy and brand name is a selling point to get noticed in the modding world (Elianora, FadingSignal, Arthmoor all come to mind) to larger job prospect or personal finanaical gain (maybe even mental). I'm not even kidding, you can dissect to the smallest bone on why a shoddy, messy, unfocused, content and polish lacking game is able to make heads spin and still be a power-hourse in selling it's name, but it would be all meaningless since a large portion of the userbase won't care and never will.

Took the time to read, everyone should. Not enough people think like this.

[Kendo 2]

Q: Why do people continue to mod Bethesda games?

 

A: Because they suck fat green rhino without mods.

 

I've clocked over 1000 hrs on Witcher3.  FO4 got 90 hrs and the ONLY reason it got that much time was so I could finish the main quest.  Bethesda has been making buggy games for over 20 years; Arena in 1994.  In that time you'd think they would have figured out how to patch a broken game and not fuck up something else.  You'd think they could get lip sync right so the facial animations match what the characters are saying.  You'd think they could do shadow renders that don't drop the FPS to 20-30.  You'd think they could succeed in making parallax lighting work.  Well, luckily there are mods to fix all of that since Bethesda acts like they are a bunch of first time devs releasing a bugged as fuck free demo.  And they do that with every game.

 

"But Bethesda provides free modding tools!"  Uhuh.  Can anyone imagine playing a Bethesda game without player-made patches to fix it?

[x9800]

Completely agree with this. 

I can say honestly, that I will not play Skyrim (Oblivion, Fallout 3-4) without mods. Morrowind... maybe, but it's still better with some modders' touch.

And one thing about Skyrim, that really frustrates me is slowpoke-ish Papyrus. Oblivion may be buggy as hell, have face textures sized as postage stamp and have huge performance issues, but it's script engine was and IS quick as hell, compared to Skyrim's.

[lordgdavid]

In my previous post I quoted a wise guy who elaborated how we came to a point where if enough hype is generated to a title, even if it is completely hypothetical (looking at no man's sky) it will sell enough for the company not to have regrets screwing us over. At this point the best thing we can hope for is waiting another ambitous dev team the challenges Beth so they might have to improve or perish. I am curious about the new engine they will create for the next TES or Fallout title, it might change how things are. Until then I do what I have done so far. Consider what I pay for and enjoy the people's hard work that is done here and on nexus.

[feral]

~Because we can

~Because we want to

 

Anymore questions?

[peculiaris]

Because they can...

because bethesda releases a CK for their game while "most" developers don't...

Because the game's of the size Bethesda produces are guaranteed to have bugs that people can fix with previously mentioned CK.

 

To go a little of topic:

I never get why people complain about bethesda games being "very" buggy...

I only really had problems with one game at launch and that was New Vegas which was produced by obsidian... But they only had a short time to make new assets and change existing assets from FO3 so that is understandable.

From the day Oblivion launched I played almost every Bethesda game with in a week of launch and I never encountered any bugs that wouldn't be fixed by leaving the cell or reloading the previous save... Of course before I start modding the game.

maybe its because I always played with beefy PC's I seriously dont know.

[Kendo 2]

Well, before I was banned at Nexus I was a 'Bethesda Modder'; and probably one of the most prolific.  The day I was banned they deleted 35 pages worth of mods for Oblivion, FO3, NV and Skyrim.  Not 35 mods, 35 pages worth of mods.  I think I had 348 mods uploaded there.  So it can't be said I didn't support Bethesda modding or that I didn't like doing it.

There were times when NV was hot and then at the beginning of Skyrim where I was fed up with the new crowd of fans and their 'gonna take old school modders down a notch' mentality.  But they were just mod theives or my-mommy-says-I'm-special Millennial beta males, so I didn't care.  I trudged onward.

What stopped me in my tracks was when I first read the FO4 eula and saw that Bethesda/Zenimax was trying to claim that ANYTHING made to work with their Tinker Toy game belonged to them.  Not just scripts and esps/esms, but everything; meshes, textures, music, sound fx, independent processes, etc.  If it is packaged and made to work with FO4 the modder surrenders all instance of creation rights.  I pointed this out to in few threads and I was met with shout-downs about how wrong I was.  Uhuh.  Then Bethesda.net goes online and guess what?  If a mod is submitted there the uploader surrenders control and creative rights over the material.  That was the nail in the coffin for me and legitimate Bethesda modding.  The only content I make for Bethesda games now are things they don't want; fucking, rape, bestiality, etc.

 

The piss-poor quality of their games (especially FO4) aside, it is the piss-poor attitude of the companies involved that prevents me from making things I normally would (weapons, clothing, armor, clutter).  Now everything I make involves nude body mods or sex because I know Bethesda doesn't like them and they won't end up on that fuck-tard sweat shop Bethesda.net.

[Nasseliten]

Ok Here my thoughts, Maybe I'm a little off topic here but the people who make the Elder scrolls games are not to blame I think.

It's the investors who demand to have a say in making of the game and forcing them to publish it before it's ready

Because all they care about is money. It's happening all over the gaming industry and I don't think the people that actually make the game have a choice anymore.

[I'm The Wabbit]

Ok Here my thoughts, Maybe I'm a little off topic here but the people who make the Elder scrolls games are not to blame I think.

It's the investors who demand to have a say in making of the game and forcing them to publish it before it's ready

Because all they care about is money. It's happening all over the gaming industry and I don't think the people that actually make the game have a choice anymore.

 

So, you're saying that's why the games are in horrible states with every release? I don't think anything can excuse that.

Q: Why do people continue to mod Bethesda games?

 

A: Because they suck fat green rhino without mods.

 

I've clocked over 1000 hrs on Witcher3.  FO4 got 90 hrs and the ONLY reason it got that much time was so I could finish the main quest.  Bethesda has been making buggy games for over 20 years; Arena in 1994.  In that time you'd think they would have figured out how to patch a broken game and not fuck up something else.  You'd think they could get lip sync right so the facial animations match what the characters are saying.  You'd think they could do shadow renders that don't drop the FPS to 20-30.  You'd think they could succeed in making parallax lighting work.  Well, luckily there are mods to fix all of that since Bethesda acts like they are a bunch of first time devs releasing a bugged as fuck free demo.  And they do that with every game.

 

"But Bethesda provides free modding tools!"  Uhuh.  Can anyone imagine playing a Bethesda game without player-made patches to fix it?

 

 

Well, before I was banned at Nexus I was a 'Bethesda Modder'; and probably one of the most prolific.  The day I was banned they deleted 35 pages worth of mods for Oblivion, FO3, NV and Skyrim.  Not 35 mods, 35 pages worth of mods.  I think I had 348 mods uploaded there.  So it can't be said I didn't support Bethesda modding or that I didn't like doing it.

There were times when NV was hot and then at the beginning of Skyrim where I was fed up with the new crowd of fans and their 'gonna take old school modders down a notch' mentality.  But they were just mod theives or my-mommy-says-I'm-special Millennial beta males, so I didn't care.  I trudged onward.

What stopped me in my tracks was when I first read the FO4 eula and saw that Bethesda/Zenimax was trying to claim that ANYTHING made to work with their Tinker Toy game belonged to them.  Not just scripts and esps/esms, but everything; meshes, textures, music, sound fx, independent processes, etc.  If it is packaged and made to work with FO4 the modder surrenders all instance of creation rights.  I pointed this out to in few threads and I was met with shout-downs about how wrong I was.  Uhuh.  Then Bethesda.net goes online and guess what?  If a mod is submitted there the uploader surrenders control and creative rights over the material.  That was the nail in the coffin for me and legitimate Bethesda modding.  The only content I make for Bethesda games now are things they don't want; fucking, rape, bestiality, etc.

 

The piss-poor quality of their games (especially FO4) aside, it is the piss-poor attitude of the companies involved that prevents me from making things I normally would (weapons, clothing, armor, clutter).  Now everything I make involves nude body mods or sex because I know Bethesda doesn't like them and they won't end up on that fuck-tard sweat shop Bethesda.net.

 

Has anyone ever told you, that you're so god damn beautiful?

[Kendo 2]

Has anyone ever told you, that you're so god damn beautiful?

No.  Outside a few rare instances everyone hates me.  I'm too blunt, too rude, too crude, too truthful in my assessments of fucked up situations, etc.  And since LL has become yet another spigot for Tumblr-style SJW/PC vomit the detractor ranks are swelling.  Not only against me, but everyone here like me.  But that is a tale for another time. 

[Nasseliten]

 

Ok Here my thoughts, Maybe I'm a little off topic here but the people who make the Elder scrolls games are not to blame I think.

It's the investors who demand to have a say in making of the game and forcing them to publish it before it's ready

Because all they care about is money. It's happening all over the gaming industry and I don't think the people that actually make the game have a choice anymore.

 

So, you're saying that's why the games are in horrible states with every release? I don't think anything can excuse that.

 

 

Yes. That's excactly what I'm saying.

[Halstrom]

How are the modding tools for Sony, Blizzard and Co going lately anyway? Improved much?

[Kendo 2]

How are the modding tools for Sony, Blizzard and Co going lately anyway? Improved much?

I don't know.  Can you point me to a Bethesda release that doesn't require players fixing it or addressing issues that shouldn't have been shipped with a supposedly 'AAA' $60 game?

[Halstrom]

 

How are the modding tools for Sony, Blizzard and Co going lately anyway? Improved much?

I don't know.  Can you point me to a Bethesda release that doesn't require players fixing it or addressing issues that shouldn't have been shipped with a supposedly 'AAA' $60 game?

 

Didn't see AAA on it when I brought it, I haven't had that many issues myself, maybe some people trying to run it on dinosaur hardware have less luck. Is AAA some sort of official rating system?

 

$60 is cheap try paying $80-90 for some games from others, less junk food, alcohol and cigarettes will save money pretty quickly.

 

 

Can you point to another game company that provides modding support programs for free like GECK and CK?

 

[Kendo 2]

AAA is a bond rating, promising the best of the best...Ya know...like Bethesda hype.  "The next generation in open world gaming" Todd Howard kind of hype.  So yeah it is a rating system and I put it in quotations so people wouldn't intentionally take it out of context.

 

And I already said "I don't know" once to your reworded question but since we're repeating ourselves: "Can you point me to a Bethesda release that doesn't require players fixing it or addressing issues that shouldn't have been shipped with a supposedly 'AAA' $60 game?"

 

My guess would be 'NO' else you would have done it already.  That makes 'They give us a free CK so we can fix their broken shit' an accurate assessment.