The right of mod users

[darkconsole]

 

 

But the text got me thinking... did someone port SAM to FO4? 

 

 

with as much effort as it is to get into skyrim with outfits, i kind of doubt someone had it working in fo4 where the nif format is fukkkkkkked.

[Benmc20]

I'm doubtful of this. Especially now with the new attitude of VP. And, Caliente and Ousnius plan to make a male counterpart of CBBE for Fallout 4. Wait and see ...

[RitualClarity]

Checked the LM download of SAM, and I cannot find any EULA. Yes, it is as a thread in the forum and on vectors site,

BUT NOT WHERE YOU DOWNLOAD SAM from LM. If they wanted to enforce their eula they can't, you haven't accepted it even if you download now.

If a EULA is automatically accepted by download, it needs a notice next to the download and a link to the Legal Text. Just like when registering for a site there is a similar notice.

 

(Sorry if that was alreads pointed out)

without an EULA from my understanding Copyright rules come into play. Which means you can't do anything without his permission, even download it technically and he can later tell you whatever he desires. See without an End Users License Agreement... you have nothing. Could be wrong however from what I read and understand. Same with a photo or any other piece of art or creation.

 

 

Checked the LM download of SAM, and I cannot find any EULA. Yes, it is as a thread in the forum and on vectors site,

BUT NOT WHERE YOU DOWNLOAD SAM from LM. If they wanted to enforce their eula they can't, you haven't accepted it even if you download now.

If a EULA is automatically accepted by download, it needs a notice next to the download and a link to the Legal Text. Just like when registering for a site there is a similar notice.

 

(Sorry if that was alreads pointed out)

Funny, if you aren't loggued, you get this :

Sorry, there is a problem

We could not locate the item you are trying to view.

 

Error code: 2D161/2

And upon loggin :

You're not allowed to upload/share/redistribute these files outside Hall of Torque without LadyM’s permission.

 

You're not allowed to convert any assets from these files to another game, they're Vector's property so please respect this.

WTF ???

 

The part about VectorPlexus proprerty is okay, he is the creator after all, but why LadyM ? Why seriously ?

 

This is the default site TOS likely. To protect the products that are uploaded onto their site in case the author isn't available. I believe the Nexus and Bethesda has one as well like this.

[Benmc20]

 

Checked the LM download of SAM, and I cannot find any EULA. Yes, it is as a thread in the forum and on vectors site,

BUT NOT WHERE YOU DOWNLOAD SAM from LM. If they wanted to enforce their eula they can't, you haven't accepted it even if you download now.

If a EULA is automatically accepted by download, it needs a notice next to the download and a link to the Legal Text. Just like when registering for a site there is a similar notice.

 

(Sorry if that was alreads pointed out)

without an EULA from my understanding Copyright rules come into play. Which means you can't do anything without his permission, even download it technically and he can later tell you whatever he desires. See without an End Users License Agreement... you have nothing. Could be wrong however from what I read and understand. Same with a photo or any other piece of art or creation.

 

 

Checked the LM download of SAM, and I cannot find any EULA. Yes, it is as a thread in the forum and on vectors site,

BUT NOT WHERE YOU DOWNLOAD SAM from LM. If they wanted to enforce their eula they can't, you haven't accepted it even if you download now.

If a EULA is automatically accepted by download, it needs a notice next to the download and a link to the Legal Text. Just like when registering for a site there is a similar notice.

 

(Sorry if that was alreads pointed out)

Funny, if you aren't loggued, you get this :

Sorry, there is a problem

We could not locate the item you are trying to view.

 

Error code: 2D161/2

And upon loggin :

You're not allowed to upload/share/redistribute these files outside Hall of Torque without LadyM’s permission.

 

You're not allowed to convert any assets from these files to another game, they're Vector's property so please respect this.

WTF ???

 

The part about VectorPlexus proprerty is okay, he is the creator after all, but why LadyM ? Why seriously ?

 

This is the default site TOS likely. To protect the products that are uploaded onto their site in case the author isn't available. I believe the Nexus and Bethesda has one as well like this.

 

No idea for Bethesda, but for the Nexus, there isn't default statement like this.

[Ixum]

the problem here is a EULA doesn't really affect me that much, in the bad sense. Since I do public vids how can I battle DMCA yelling etc? I can't, host sites tend to delete all just in case. Anyway, as I said before I have decided to stop using SAM and the deadline is today... I will miss my demons..

 

 

[RitualClarity]

 

Nexus Mods does not claim ownership of the content you provide to the Nexus or post, upload, input or submit on any Nexus site or its associated services for review by the general public, or by the members of any public or private community. However, by posting, uploading, inputting, providing or submitting ("Posting") content on the Nexus you are granting the Nexus a non-exclusive, world-wide, royalty-free license to: copy, distribute, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, reproduce, edit, translate and reformat your content and to publish your username in connection with your content at our digression until such time as you manually remove the content yourself using the pre-provided tools or until such time that you send a request to the owners of the site for the content be removed. Removal of content is a manual process, however, so please realise that we may not be able to remove or edit content immediately. You remain solely responsible for the content you upload to Nexus Mods and you agree to indemnify and hold harmless this site, and any related websites. We reserve the right to reveal your identity (or any information we have about you) to authorities in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any information posted by you, and any information sent either private or public can be made available to any admins, staff or enforcement agencies at any time.

 

 

Any permission you granted to other Nexus Mods users and any prohibitions you specified with regard to your uploaded mod(s) will remain effective even if you cease to use Nexus for an extended period of time or if your account is terminated for any reason. If your account is terminated by the Nexus staff you will have a one-time opportunity to decide how your uploaded content should be handled: you can either permit Nexus Mods to continue to host it or you can request the removal of your content either in whole or in part. By default, we do not remove a banned members uploaded content unless such content violates our terms of service. However, any content uploaded or submitted by previously banned members who try to circumvent the ban will be removed.

There is no reverse EULA unless you actively seek to change it and I doubt DarkOne will allow something like this as it is destructive. Likely such a mod would have to be removed and any permissions given from before would have to stay... (given there wasn't a clause in the original EULA/permissions that stated otherwise) However the yellow shows that they will continue to use the assets unless expressly forbidden during the one chance you have to remove the mod when leaving. (upon being banned)

 

The statement I gave before was based on claims of others when they upload mods to Nexus. They have to choose a license or the default license will be given. I have no personal experience with this as I never uploaded a mod to Nexus. Perhaps others that have can chime in on this and give a more informed statement.

 

As far as Bethesda's site.. .they don't need it really as they own anything that has been created with there tools. ESP, Scripts (packed in ESP/ESMs) some even state if you use the tool to package up a BSA they own the assets in that BSA. People are complaining about VP's EULA being restrictive.. Bethesda's is even more so.

[myuhinny]

@Ixum

 

Make a new body mod upload it for everyone make it better then SAM if you can. Let SAM die the way that the mod author wants it to die which is what I get from all of this.

[RitualClarity]

@Ixum

 

Make a new body mod upload it for everyone make it better then SAM if you can. Let SAM die the way that the mod author wants it to die which is what I get from all of this.

 

I doubt the author wants his mod to die... however the results of removing it and creating fear in creation of armors and other assets for it will result in its slow death.

 

I agree with the statement for Ixum or anyone for that matter that dislikes what VP did to create their own male of similar quality and upload it as Open Source, Free to Use. Doing so will provide a replacement for the body in question and allow for free development of armors and alternate textures and the works. I have every confidence that if this is done... this new body will shortly replace all other male replaces on the market for Skyim.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20150923061627/http://wryemusings.com/Cathedral%20vs.%20Parlor.html

 

the above is an excellent article that shamefully has been allowed to die on the web except in archival form. however I believe the info held there true. One particular statement is relevant to this conversation

 

 

Authorial Longetivity

Improved works are much more likely to give everyone credit. OTOH, if two works are independently created to do the same job, then it's likely that only one of them will "win" (i.e. be widely known/used) – and thus the effort and name of the loser will be lost. In competitions, there's little desire to mention your competitor in your readme; but in extensions and improvements, the norm is for the original author to get top billing.

 

[prinyo]

[...]  And, Caliente and Ousnius plan to make a male counterpart of CBBE for Fallout 4. Wait and see ...

 

Really?               

Where do I send beer, cookies and stuff?

 

Sorry for the off-topic, but this made me happy :-)

[malvekiar]

IANAL, but from Zenimax's EULA (wherein Zenimax also covers Bethesda) - emphasis mine.

 

"As between You and ZeniMax, You will be the owner of all of Your UGC (as defined above).  To the fullest extent permitted by law, You hereby expressly grant (or You warrant that the owner of Your UGC has expressly granted) to ZeniMax and its licensors, licensees and designees a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable, sublicensable (through multiple tiers of sublicensees) right and license to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with Your UGC in all formats and media, whether existing now or in the future, and You agree not to assert or enforce any moral rights or similar rights You may have which may now or may hereafter be recognized, and all ancillary and subsidiary rights, in any languages and media now known or not currently known."

 

[...]

 

"You further grant each user of the Services a non-exclusive license to access UGC and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such UGC as permitted through the Services, including, but not limited to, Game functionality."

 

 

While they would retain copyright to things like textures, meshes, etc, I read this as they cannot make UGC created for Zenimax products that they have agreed to the EULA for with more restrictions than already exist in the Zenimax EULA.

 

https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

[Benmc20]

IANAL, but from Zenimax's EULA (wherein Zenimax also covers Bethesda) - emphasis mine.

 

"As between You and ZeniMax, You will be the owner of all of Your UGC (as defined above).  To the fullest extent permitted by law, You hereby expressly grant (or You warrant that the owner of Your UGC has expressly granted) to ZeniMax and its licensors, licensees and designees a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable, sublicensable (through multiple tiers of sublicensees) right and license to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with Your UGC in all formats and media, whether existing now or in the future, and You agree not to assert or enforce any moral rights or similar rights You may have which may now or may hereafter be recognized, and all ancillary and subsidiary rights, in any languages and media now known or not currently known."

 

[...]

 

"You further grant each user of the Services a non-exclusive license to access UGC and to use, reproduce, distribute, display and perform such UGC as permitted through the Services, including, but not limited to, Game functionality."

 

 

While they would retain copyright to things like textures, meshes, etc, I read this as they cannot make UGC created for Zenimax products that they have agreed to the EULA for with more restrictions than already exist in the Zenimax EULA.

 

https://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

So ... Upon reading this, VectorPlexus is totally wrong because :

- his "EULA" can't be retroactive at all (in any civilised contry as far as I know) nor can excluse anyone to use his mod

- the real "possession" and rights of usage is for Zenimax / Bethesda

And LadyM would be wise to not follow VectorPlexus on this one.

 

The only right that VectorPlexus has is the intellectual one (for creating this mod and textures associated).

[Ixum]

@Ixum

 

Make a new body mod upload it for everyone make it better then SAM if you can. Let SAM die the way that the mod author wants it to die which is what I get from all of this.

 

I would if I had the knowledge, which I do not have atm. Maybe it is time to focus on that btw!

 

Anyway, trying out a new body mod, sadly no penis control, no HDT, no body variance... http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/147241245652/skyrimgame-of-thrones-winterfell-romance-gd

[MadMansGun]

 

I would if I had the knowledge, which I do not have atm. Maybe it is time to focus on that btw!

 

Anyway, trying out a new body mod, sadly no penis control, no HDT, no body variance... http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/147241245652/skyrimgame-of-thrones-winterfell-romance-gd

 

i think its just some extra bone nodes and a bit of script or something in the .nif file for the HDT stuff.

 

 

[myuhinny]

@Ixum

 

Mesh rigger you can rig and weightpaint nifs without a 3D program!

 

Quickly and easily add BBP, TBBP, BB, BBB, BNB, etc to an entire collection of clothing and armor with a few clicks of a button!

 

This tool automatically copies Bones, Weightpainting, Dismemberment Partitions, and much more for Skyrim, Fallout and Oblivion meshes.

 

The tool can process a single nif, multiple nifs, or even an entire directory structure at once.

 

You can now add one or more bones to an entire clothing collection with a couple of quick clicks.

 

And rigging a raw mesh or stripping and re-rigging an existing mesh is a simple as running the tool.

 

Core Functions

 

1. Copy skeleton root, bones, and weightpainting from a fully rigged mesh to an unrigged mesh

2. Accurately replicate skin partitions and dismemberment partitions

3. Selectively copy individual bones, multiple bones, or entire skeletons from a rigged nif to any other mesh.

4. Selectively rig individual meshes within a nif for Rigid or Soft weightpainting

5. Automatically copy Havok HDT nodes and bones

6. Automatically compensate for differences in skinning, bone transforms, skinned bone transforms, etc

7. Automatically generate perfectly matching _0 and _1 morph meshes, if _0 and _1 morph meshes already exist.

 

http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24797-mesh-rigger-skyrim-fallout-oblivion-beta89f-10-26-2014/

[RitualClarity]

 

@Ixum

 

Make a new body mod upload it for everyone make it better then SAM if you can. Let SAM die the way that the mod author wants it to die which is what I get from all of this.

 

I would if I had the knowledge, which I do not have atm. Maybe it is time to focus on that btw!

 

Anyway, trying out a new body mod, sadly no penis control, no HDT, no body variance... http://mmoboys.tumblr.com/post/147241245652/skyrimgame-of-thrones-winterfell-romance-gd

 

 

You belong to one of the best sites to learn modding from. There are many here with massive skills that can help you help yourself, that is if you are truly willing to try.

 

Perhaps start a new thread as this one is pretty beaten down now.. Start one for your replacement body . If the one you seen isn't good perhaps try to improve the current SOS body to better suit your needs. (texture update/mesh tweak)

 

Or if others like the idea... gather them up and create a completely fresh, new body from scratch.. then release it as OPEN Source. Then let the armors and other sources be created. Open will give so much power for people to teak this and tweak that before you know it it will be full of armors/ replaces etc. Who knows very likely get ported over to Fallout 4 and the new Skyrim while at it.

 

 

[tryptophan07]

 

 

You belong to one of the best sites to learn modding from. There are many here with massive skills that can help you help yourself, that is if you are truly willing to try.

 

I think a lot of people wanna see you succeed Ixum, and maybe making your own bod mod would be the best way to go. (Has no clue on modding, but it seems most creators have had some hand holding and help from other creators)

[RitualClarity]

 

 

 

You belong to one of the best sites to learn modding from. There are many here with massive skills that can help you help yourself, that is if you are truly willing to try.

 

I think a lot of people wanna see you succeed Ixum, and maybe making your own bod mod would be the best way to go. (Has no clue on modding, but it seems most creators have had some hand holding and help from other creators)

 

 

It is not seems but fact. Most even the best here have had help from others from time to time to solve problems and learn new tricks.

 

[darkconsole]

 

 

 

It is not seems but fact. Most even the best here have had help from others from time to time to solve problems and learn new tricks.

 

 

 

that is what makes modding communities work. and why i went apeshit on that thread a month or so back of some guy trying to craft a way to make fallout 4 mods hard to "pirate" e.g. port to xbox. not that i want my things on xbox. his idea was wrong.

[TamaChan]

"Sharing is caring" indeed dc.

 

Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I do study law as a hobby, mostly us law(a lot of other countries stuff too though) but speaking generally, in the modern world his eula has no leg to stand on. As long as you never download a newer version from HIS website, you are not subject to his eula. Downloading it from ladym might be a little different, I haven't look at the stuff there yet. The only thing that affects you is the video stuff. Now he can file a dmca and most websites will likely remove your video, and in court you could easily overturn this decision, but the problem is that you actually require legal representation for that. So, if you never download a new version from HIS website, you are free to keep using your version of sam. If you download from ladym, then you might be subject to any requisites she has(I haven't looked at the page for sam on ladym), but I have been told that the eula or whatever is not repesented in a fashion that requires you to acknowledge it's presence to use sam, which means that It is likely not legally binding anyway. But from what I did read, his eula was worded so that any decent lawyer could make sure you never face any charges(no jail time/fines). The problem that faces you is how websites treat you.

 

If you post videos, you are not subject to his eula ownership requirement, since you are using an older version/version from ladym. That being said, you could just put a thumbnail at the beginning of each video with a statement of ownership of mods and like a link or something to where people could see a list of all mods you use and all their authors, and this would satisfy his watermark part, and it would go a long way to show that you are not stealing anyone's content, and are doing your best to give credit. However most websites care more about potential lawsuits than their users' rights, so if you ever do post a video, he could request it be removed or you banned, and they may or may not comply. Now if you wanted to file a counter claim to get the video or your account reinstated, you could, but depending on the website, this may or may not require actual legal representation(a lawyer). 

 

As for the texture, posting it on nexus or LL will likely result in it being taken down and you being banned. Although this has to do with the community guidelines and not any actual legal stuff. The same would likely also be the case for posting it on websites like mediafire/mega. However you could post it to a foreign country download site who won't take it down, and if it ever made it to court, I guarantee that you would never be found as the guilty party.

 

The last issue to deal with is your blog. Tumblr is unlikely to, but they might suspend/remove your account/blog if he goes after you there. This one however is the biggest risk, because having your blog taken down could result in you losing countless amounts of priceless data on it. So, considering that your blog is about creating individual content and tumblr, ironically, is very protective of the users' rights to freedom of expression, you have a good standing on this front too, especially because you post gay content? So again, you have no legal risks, but you do run the risk of losing your blog, if you keep posting vids with sam.

 

From a relationship/moral standpoint though, I just don't get what's going on at all. He is obviously leading a personal attack against you, but I can't ascertain a motive. If you could possibly post more info on what happened? Maybe you're not aloud to, so send it through a p.m. I could give you more help. I might also go ask Vector politely. I don't want to pick sides, I just want the modding community to stay together. Even of many people come here because the nexus pisses them off, all of the modding community is like a family, and it will be better if family sticks together. If we become divided, it just make the hurdles we face, like the paid modding fiasko, and the ongoing beth.net thief problem harder to overcome. We need to remember that we shouldn't be fighting each other, but fighting dangerous ideas in the community. It's not about someone using my content for stuff I don't like, it's about someone stealing someone's work and saying it's thier own. It's not about finding legal loop holes to make sure you're not in the wrong, it's about trying to find a compromise so that both can be happy.

[myuhinny]

Do you really expect someone to read your wall of text? Split that wall of text up into paragraphs so people will actually want to read it instead of ignoring it.

[TamaChan]

Do you really expect someone to read your wall of text? Split that wall of text up into paragraphs so people will actually want to read it instead of ignoring it.

Thanks. That better?

[myuhinny]

Yes it's looks a lot better now and will be easier for everyone to read. Thanks.

[Ixum]

Well, it seems I might have to test it rly. How many will have my back? Just as a reminder, there is no reason for this. The texture case: there are textures based on his still allowed on nexus, and there are way more on LM. Also, I have made no money on his mod (this is the only thing I could think would be justifiable). So, I am thinking, this needs to be challenged. Atleast to force him out on his reasoning, he will not tell me what it is.

[GothicPrinceX]

Well, it seems I might have to test it rly. How many will have my back? Just as a reminder, there is no reason for this. The texture case: there are textures based on his still allowed on nexus, and there are way more on LM. Also, I have made no money on his mod (this is the only thing I could think would be justifiable). So, I am thinking, this needs to be challenged.

 

Ixum, i think you really should go ahead. By the looks of a lot of people here there are tons of people who want to help you! I know the best way is to start small, start with just the body, but you never know. Fans might also chip in and come up with all the other parts, like the armors and the jiggling butts and the uh... Horse dongs...

 

Just know that you have a lot of fans, some who love all your stuff, some who are into your vanilla kinky stuff and then some who are really into the extreme stuff. They will all help you if they can. Some of the recent posts have been a great example of an awesome modding community, take advantage of that.

[Ixum]

 

Well, it seems I might have to test it rly. How many will have my back? Just as a reminder, there is no reason for this. The texture case: there are textures based on his still allowed on nexus, and there are way more on LM. Also, I have made no money on his mod (this is the only thing I could think would be justifiable). So, I am thinking, this needs to be challenged.

 

Ixum, i think you really should go ahead. By the looks of a lot of people here there are tons of people who want to help you! I know the best way is to start small, start with just the body, but you never know. Fans might also chip in and come up with all the other parts, like the armors and the jiggling butts and the uh... Horse dongs...

 

Just know that you have a lot of fans, some who love all your stuff, some who are into your vanilla kinky stuff and then some who are really into the extreme stuff. They will all help you if they can. Some of the recent posts have been a great example of an awesome modding community, take advantage of that.

 

 

I am very certain this ban is not about artistic protection. This is personal. That has been at the heart of this issue. Many here have testified the person in questin is hyper volatile. I am not asking the leaders of this community to host my mods, please, feel free to delete them all if you want to. I do ask this community to support my right as a mod user - and all of you as mod users - not to be bullied like this. There is no justification for my ban, there are no explanations other than that of a troubled modder, not a very sane imho, practicing censorship. Every moment this is allowed to happen, is a slap in the face for every mod user in Skyrim, and every other moddable game.