toys Shout Like a Virgin Evolved LE

[VirginMarie]

7 hours ago, nimawi said:

i cant get the story to start, i started with a fresh game, played until the first dragon, killed him, and got my shout- which i triggered and nothing happened. i then spend the next 30ish days ingame wandering around in random towns and yelled at the sky like a madwoman, but no messenger =/

 

It's not a DD5 issue. DD5's animation filter that cannot be turned off, is going to make a mess of some of your sexlab scenes, possibly breaking a quest at some point. That's why DD5 is not compatible and not recommended. But you're not far enough along for DD5 to play a role.

 

If the NPC is not coming to greet you after your first shout, something is not installed correctly, or you have a corrupt save. In a really rare case, there could be another mod that messes with shouts. No such conflict is known to me though.

 

If, for example, you upgraded to DD5 and did not start a new game (which is a requirement for DD), then your save files will have a creeping, forever getting worse corruption. If that's what's going on, start a new game, you will have more problems even if you get past this one.

 

If you are running on a clean game, then use Troubleshooting #3, walking through all the steps carefully. Troubleshooting #4 might help you understand what to expect. Note the "Golden Rule" too (same link) as there are other reasons you could have a corrupt save.

 

To help you any further, after you try the above, I'd need to know... Does your very first shout trigger the notification "Your voice awakens the gods" ? This will happen only that first time, nothing matters after that. If no notification, you know the quest is not going to start.

 

 

[Kimy]

6 hours ago, nimawi said:

i am using DD5 btw

 

DD 5.0 had some issues with this mod. For all I know, DD 5.1 should be fully compatible with it. You might have to set the new "Disable animation filter for creature animations" to "ON", though.

[VirginMarie]

36 minutes ago, Kimy said:

 

DD 5.0 had some issues with this mod. For all I know, DD 5.1 should be fully compatible with it. You might have to set the new "Disable animation filter for creature animations" to "ON", though.

 

SLaV is still very incompatible with DD5.1. I'd expect problems with Creatures is fixed but have not tested to confirm.  A detailed writeup can be seen HERE under the heading "Why mods may not be compatible with DD5's Filter". That write-up has been updated to include the differences in DD5.1.

 

[Kimy]

DD 5.1 is supposed to solve every single of the issues named in that write-up quoted above, particularly the ones tagged by the author of this mod with "I have no plans to test them". I am not aware of any filter-related technical problems remaining and nobody has reported any, either in the DD dev thread or the support thread. From what I know, this mod works as well with DD 5.1 as any other DD mod. If there are any technical issues left outstanding, users of this mod are more than welcome to report them in the proper threads, and I will have a look at it. As long as a DD-version of this mod is available, it will get supported.

As for startup-delays, I cannot recall any point in the history of software development where the time a function needs to compute results from given input has been considered a bug or a technical issue. It's the nature of code needing time to execute. Some need more time. Some need less. Even if the filter would need an hour to replace an animation, it would still not constitute a technical issue by any stretch of imagination. It would obviously more ideal if DD-aware mods would fire animations from the get-go that do not need to be replaced, and the framework does provide such features, for mods that want to use them.

[VirginMarie]

9 hours ago, Kimy said:

DD 5.1 is supposed to solve every single of the issues named in that write-up quoted above

That's simply not possible. It may have solved 3 of the 8 problems listed HERE under the heading "Why mods may not be compatible with DD5's Filter" as is clearly stated there. 5 of the 8 problems are clearly NOT solved, and 2 of those are the most critical for this mod.

 

Quote

As for startup-delays, I cannot recall any point in the history of software development where the time a function needs to compute results from given input has been considered a bug or a technical issue.

Ridiculous. There are a million cases in the history of software development, where performance is a mission critical requirement, thus a technical issue if the requirement is not met. For SLaV, the Love Shout, being slow to react, is feature killing. Nobody would want to use it because its not fun. DD kills that feature. Yes its just a game, nobody is going to die, but this is a case where DD makes SLaV unusable. Users should stick with DD4 until SLaV uses Toys.

 

I've listed all 8 issues as problems. Not bugs. The issue is the design. The issue is that you change how sexlab behaves. The issue is that you force this new behavior, giving no options to users or mod authors. You even change the behavior of sexlab scenes for mods that don't use DD.

 

Its not for you to decide if the changed behavior is a problem or not. For SLaV, its breaking. Call it "not a bug, and not a technical issue" all you want, it won't change the fact that its a problem for this mod. And at this point we are beyond it mattering. SLaV will soon use the new framework Toys. The Toys first Alpha 1 release is this weekend. There will be a Beta release of SLaV using Toys soon. 

 

 

[NoJoker]

6 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

That's simply not possible. It may have solved 3 of the 8 problems listed HERE under the heading "Why mods may not be compatible with DD5's Filter" as is clearly stated there. 5 of the 8 problems are clearly NOT solved, and 2 of those are the most critical for this mod.

 

Ridiculous. There are a million cases in the history of software development, where performance is a mission critical requirement, thus a technical issue if the requirement is not met. For SLaV, the Love Shout, being slow to react, is feature killing. Nobody would want to use it because its not fun. DD kills that feature. Yes its just a game, nobody is going to die, but this is a case where DD makes SLaV unusable. Users should stick with DD4 until SLaV uses Toys.

 

I've listed all 8 issues as problems. Not bugs. The issue is the design. The issue that you change how sexlab behaves. The issue is that you force this new behavior, giving no options to users or mod authors. You even change the behavior of sexlab scenes for mods that don't use DD.

 

Its not for you to decide if the changed behavior is a problem or not. For SLaV, its breaking. Call it "not a bug, and not a technical issue" all you want, it won't change the fact that its a problem for this mod. And at this point we are beyond it mattering. SLaV will soon use the new framework Toys. The Toys first Alpha 1 release is this weekend. There will be a Beta release of SLaV using Toys soon. 

 

 

 

Holy shit, I was wondering why my SexLab scene involves bondage almost always breaks during animation, character breaks and not animating, animation desync, SexLab Tools pop-up menu delays, changing stage takes ridiculous long time to process...I guess I have to revert back to 4.0. 

BTW I have a super computer with RTX 3090 and plays on SSE which have much better performance in general, but having that huge slow down is extremely unacceptable. Something is overloading Skyrim's script engine during animation, but I can't find stack trace in the log.

[GreatCroco]

19 hours ago, NoJoker said:

Holy shit, I was wondering why my SexLab scene involves bondage almost always breaks during animation, character breaks and not animating, animation desync

That's not a problem on DD5's side. I have had none of the problems you describe and that is with a 600+ ModList on LE and 700+ ModList on SSE. It's most likely another mod or configuration error (sadly people still try to "improve" performance by "tweaking" the papyrus budget in the ini files).

 

19 hours ago, NoJoker said:

BTW I have a super computer with RTX 3090 and plays on SSE which have much better performance in general

Your GPU doesn't matter the slightest for the papyrus script engine which runs on the CPU. Even then, the script engine is tied to the frame rate or in other words: By changing the Papyrus time (i.e. changing fUpdateBudgetMS and fExtraTaskletBudgetMS) a user might give the scripting engine more time, but at the same time it takes away time from the render and physics threads, resulting in broken animations and dropped frames

 

On 1/29/2021 at 8:04 PM, VirginMarie said:

Ridiculous. There are a million cases in the history of software development, where performance is a mission critical requirement, thus a technical issue if the requirement is not met.

requirement != bug. It's not a technical issue if the performance requirements are not met.

 

On 1/29/2021 at 8:04 PM, VirginMarie said:

That's simply not possible. It may have solved 3 of the 8 problems listed HERE 

Most problems described there can be solved by mod authors. Yes it's more work than before, but you can still get the very results you want. Kimy has told you multiple times that the filter will present you with a scene it thinks is best, but in the end you, the mod author, can override that selection after the filter has returned.

 

It's also pretty hypocritical to accuse DD of changing the behavior of mods that don't use DD (which btw: it does not, a mod not using DD but the SL animation registry will not see anything from the filter), when your mod forces the user to use a feature that definitely changes the behavior of other mods by disabling the filter and just because you apparently don't want to write code that makes your mod compatible with DD5, but want to shift the blame to Kimy. At least that's how you came across in the public comments over in the DD5 beta thread.

[VirginMarie]

2 hours ago, Techpriest said:

requirement != bug. It's not a technical issue if the performance requirements are not met.

ridiculous.  If not a technical issue, what then? Improving performance is a huge part of software development and this requires technical solutions.

 

2 hours ago, Techpriest said:

to accuse DD of changing the behavior of mods that don't use DD (which btw: it does not, a mod not using DD but the SL animation registry will not see anything from the filter)

 

Any mod calling a sexlab scene will have its scene interrupted by DD, if the player is wearing devices from another mod. The mod calling the sexlab scene does not need to be using DD whatsoever, in fact the author may have not even heard of DD. That's fact, and that's what I'm talking about. DD's animation filter is a nightmare.

 

If you wish to discuss this further, not here please. this thread is for supporting SLaV.

 

As for the rest of  your lovely comments, I think is extremely obvious how I feel about DD, given that I'm actually willing to write a new framework to replace it. Speaking of which.........

 

Toys has released!!!

[nasgektw]

I'm stuck at the first "spank a thief for dibella"... There is no thief at the marker no matter how many time I ask for a new location... Anyone has an idea how to complete the quest or what could be the problem ?

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, nasgektw said:

I'm stuck at the first "spank a thief for dibella"... There is no thief at the marker no matter how many time I ask for a new location... Anyone has an idea how to complete the quest or what could be the problem ?

 

You have asked the NPC for a new location, she successfully says she gave you one. You make sure the selected active quest in your journal is "Spank a thief"...

1. Has the location changed since the previous one?
2. There is a map marker on the map? (if not it would be in Solstheim which is the main reason you get the option to ask for a new location)
3. What do you see at the map marker when you get there, if no NPC?
4. Any chance that maybe you have a corrupt save (see Golden Rule for more detail) ?
5. What version of DD are you using? If you upgraded DD recently, did you start a new game?

[nasgektw]

1. The location changes correctly

2. The map marker appears when I select the quest

3. There usually is bandits at location but the floating marker stays once I have killed everyone and the quest does not complete

4. I tried loading a previous save

5. I'm using last versions of mods with a fresh game

[VirginMarie]

43 minutes ago, nasgektw said:

1. The location changes correctly

2. The map marker appears when I select the quest

3. There usually is bandits at location but the floating marker stays once I have killed everyone and the quest does not complete

4. I tried loading a previous save

5. I'm using last versions of mods with a fresh game

Then it all checks out as expected. Loading a previous save does not rule out a corrupt save as the corruption could have started many saves back. I'm focused on this because it's the only thing that I know of that could cause this. I have no other ideas to try.

 

Note that I don't recommend using DD5. Sounds like you are using it. But this is not causing your current problem.

 

The "floating marker" is produced using Skyrim's built in random NPC selector. This mod is not picking an NPC itself. Skyrim's own feature has given you an invisible/non-existent NPC to kill, and since you can't kill it, you won't progress the quest. I suppose beyond a corrupt save, there could be another mod changing bandit camps or something like that.

 

There's no safe way to "setstage" your way out of quests in this mod, as this mod relies on data that is beyond setstage, so you would just make things worse. Also if you do have a corrupt save, its going to show its ugly results in other ways sooner or later. 

 

If you do end up starting over with a new save, the MCM Misc Tab has a "Skip initial Story" option that will take you to the point in the story where you have your first rebirth, which is not too far in the future from where you are now. You'd be missing a small bit of the story if you did this (i.e. if its your first time with this mod).

[nasgektw]

I'll try to ask few random new locations to the NPC just to be sure. If it is caused by another mod changing some NPC, it should work eventually. I'll post the result.

Thanks a lot for your fast replies

 

EDIT : After the 6th try, the marker was finally on a valid NPC  I think it was due to a mod which add random encounters and may makes NPC fight each others.

[VirginMarie]

22 hours ago, nasgektw said:

After the 6th try, the marker was finally on a valid NPC  I think it was due to a mod which add random encounters and may makes NPC fight each others.

I could check and confirm, then list that mod as a conflict, if you tell me it's name.

[nasgektw]

I'm thinking about "Immersive Patrols" but I also have "Interesting NPCs" and "Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul"

I don't have time to test a fresh game without those mods so I'm not 100% sure.

[darthnoldor]

Hi Freinds,

I can make this mod working with SPECIAL EDITION with some modification? 

I hope... ?

[VirginMarie]

10 minutes ago, darthnoldor said:

Hi Freinds,

I can make this mod working with SPECIAL EDITION with some modification? 

I hope... ?

 

FAQ 18

[darthnoldor]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:07 AM, VirginMarie said:

 

FAQ 18

 

Thanks ?

[VirginMarie]

Toys Alpha 2 has been released     Toys (a new framework) 

 

We are getting close to Shout Like a Virgin, for Toys Beta, as this is now my main focus.

 

[PiercingDreams]

Hi, I've forgotten, how do you visit Nocturnal to report?

[VirginMarie]

27 minutes ago, PiercingDreams said:

Hi, I've forgotten, how do you visit Nocturnal to report?

 

Worship any Shrine of a Daedric whom you've earned trust with. The first one is Clavicus Vile's Shrine in Haemar's Shame.

[PiercingDreams]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Worship any Shrine of a Daedric whom you've earned trust with. The first one is Clavicus Vile's Shrine in Haemar's Shame.

Thanks for the help, but I also forgot how to worship at a Daedric Shrine.

[VirginMarie]

1 hour ago, PiercingDreams said:

Thanks for the help, but I also forgot how to worship at a Daedric Shrine.

 

FAQ #5

[PiercingDreams]

1 hour ago, VirginMarie said:

 

FAQ #5

Thank you, right under my nose.

[Lupine00]

It may well have been explained before, but I admit, I'm very lazy and read the mod front page, this page, and one other page I found a link to ...

 

How will Toys-based mods - such as updated SLAV - avoid being broken by the DD5 filtering if the player has DD5 installed as well as Toys?

 

Is the answer simply ... they won't?

 

 

A point was raised about patching SexLab so that it doesn't fire the mod events that DD relies on - which would also break some mods, differently, but they too could be patched.

This seems to have been rejected as Ashal would not do it, but ... SLSO.

This seems like one viable option, that might help encourage DD5 to stop being so obstructive about its filter.

Just a wild guess, but SLAV wasn't the intended recipient of this persistent eye-poking gesture.

 

Another issue in DD4, that I doubt has improved in DD5 is that DD (almost) constantly resets the player control mask to settings of its own choosing.

This forces mods that want to disable player controls to perform elaborate contrivances, or set DontMove to true, which locks the camera and is horrible.

That horrid behavior should always have had an override hook, and doesn't. I haven't even downloaded DD5 yet, so I wouldn't know what it does, but I'm guessing it does the exact same thing and runs its own control mask update whenever it feels like it, with no way to disable, override, or interoperate with it?

 

How does SLAV work around that currently?