Varithina Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Dragon priest masks? Heavy armour? Nope, not wearing that, no way and no how. Besides that still only adds up to a 0.75x boost, which is nowhere near what you can add to a sword or bow, and certainly not enough to fix it. There are a couple of mods that allow you to craft either light, clothing or heavy versions when you have the mask.
Coopervane Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 There are a couple of mods that allow you to craft either light, clothing or heavy versions when you have the mask. Doesen't mean i'll be willing to put the butt-ugly things on, waadrk.. And again, it doesen't fix it. Lets just look at one-handed: Through perks alone, you can make a sword do double the damage. But not enough with that, weapons level with your skill, so you get even more damage just by leveling up, and then we're looking at something like +120% damage just from leveling and the passive perks. But it doesen't end there, because then comes the grindstone and all the extra damage you can add there, and you can put an enchantment on the sword (which will also benifit from that 25% boost that mask gives, BTW), and you can enchant your armour and jewelry to give you even more damage (and by quite a margin aswell!). And then there's the rest of the perks, the crits, the stealth bonus and so forth ontop of it all (EDIT: ohh yeah, and i completely forgot potions! You can also make those and add even more damage that way). If you know how the exploit the Alchemy/Smithing/Enchanting loop, which isen't hard at all, then you can make an Ebony sword that does something crazy like +8x damage by the time you reach level 45 (and that's without the crits). And there's still Daedric and Dragonbone after that. That +0.75x Destruction boost isen't looking especially super compared to that, now is it? And it's especially not looking super when every Bandit starts to be a Marauder, and every Drauger a Death-Lord, and you were struggeling to even kill a Highwayman and a Scourge. That's the point where the Destruction school completely breaks down and stops beeing worth anything anymore.
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/33395/?
afa Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 End game physical damage could be nearly if not exceed 2000 per hit. Scaling of one hand, two hand, and archery from 1 to 100 is 1 to 1.5x off base weapon. 5/5 of each starter perk gives 2x off base weapon on top of that. Smithing growth is linear meaning same smithing skill will give the same bonus to an iron sword vs a daedric sword. After all that you get fortify enchantment to one hand, two hand and archery that boost their damage while fortify magic gives decrease cost. Potion can add on top of that if you want. But they are subject to armor reduction. I don't know how much armor creatures have. But at the very worst it should still hit for ~400. There are only 3 ways to boost magic damage, perks, dragonborn DLC masks, and fortify destruction potions. With dual cast you should be able to hit around ~250 with expert spells more if you use potion. high (50+) Frost and fire resist are common, fire weakness is also common, shock is only partially blocked by breton With the exception of high level dragons and unique enemies, most high level enemies have about 800 to 1400 health. With dual casting it is still manageable.
Coopervane Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 End game physical damage could be nearly if not exceed 2000 per hit. Scaling of one hand, two hand, and archery from 1 to 100 is 1 to 1.5x off base weapon. 5/5 of each starter perk gives 2x off base weapon on top of that. Smithing growth is linear meaning same smithing skill will give the same bonus to an iron sword vs a daedric sword. After all that you get fortify enchantment to one hand, two hand and archery that boost their damage while fortify magic gives decrease cost. Potion can add on top of that if you want. But they are subject to armor reduction. I don't know how much armor creatures have. But at the very worst it should still hit for ~400. There are only 3 ways to boost magic damage, perks, dragonborn DLC masks, and fortify destruction potions. With dual cast you should be able to hit around ~250 with expert spells more if you use potion. high (50+) Frost and fire resist are common, fire weakness is also common, shock is only partially blocked by breton With the exception of high level dragons and unique enemies, most high level enemies have about 800 to 1400 health. With dual casting it is still manageable. I'm not saying it's not possible to survive using vanilla Destruction (you technically could kite enemies around for houers if you really wanted to), what i am saying is that it's neither very fun nor fairly balanced against the alternatives. It's not uncommon for mages to start out weak in RPG's, but normally, they get very powerful later on if they can survive past the early trials of the game, and the player understands how to use the class (IE, you may hit for a lot of Dmg, but you can't take a lot of it, so you need to be smart about it). In Skyrim, you start out weak and only get weaker as you go.. I can't be the only one who see's that as beeing backwards and broken, surely? You also technically can beat Skyrim with just an iron dagger, a set of farmers clothes, and never taking a single perk. It's not a very optimal way of playing the game though..
vram1974 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 Doesn't SPERG fix some of the lack of magic damage scaling? Aren't there magic damage scaling mods on Nexus?
Coopervane Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Doesn't SPERG fix some of the lack of magic damage scaling? Aren't there magic damage scaling mods on Nexus? I'm not sure about SPERG as i've not used it, but yes, there are plenty of mods that try to fix magic in various different ways, so it's really just a matter of shopping around, seeing what's avalible, and finding one that you like the idea of. It can be fixed, it just isen't fixed by default
afa Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I wouldn't say mages get weak and weaker, but rather their progression is awkward to say the least. They start out ok, but then dip down as spell cost becomes an issue. It is a race for enchanting to get cost back down to 0. From that point on everything is fine again. Leveling Alteration and Illusion is a non issue with 0 cost, getting stealth, dragonhide, magic resist, detect life/death, paralyze, etc. Spamming shock spell with Impact is easy mode with no leading target, benefit of range, and stagger to boot. Mages can get rolling and faster than physical as long as you are willing to sit down and grind that enchanting, but physical progression feels more natural and logical and sky rocket at the end. I should test and see how much this progression will be for physical; skip smithing and rely on enchantments and all. I think a way to help mages is to have the cost reduction of perk, skill level, and fortify enchantment be addition instead of multiply. That way with perk and 100 skill the reduction would be ~90% then and a small all spell reduction or one fortify for each tree could easily bring everything down to zero.
nidhogga Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 If you want to play mage give requiem a go, but be warned that certain perks and spells are downright OP at the moment and the progression from weakling who dies in 1 shot from bandit to demigod who rips apart dragon priests and dragons with little effort is very real in requiem. Destruction and conjuration are insanely powerful, but that also means enemies using these sort of spells will ruin your day as well. Infact , for any character in requiem I played enchanting magic/elemental resist is a must cause otherwise game is downright impossible. Requiem coupled with FMR / apocalypse /dwemertech is something i'd recommend for anybody who likes playing mage characters, theres no other mod that comes near.
Shadowhawk827 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Wow, this thread really took off. To be fair, I haven't played a pure mage at higher levels, so my POV here may be a bit limited... That said though, AND keeping in mind that I *do* agree magic IS underpowered (has been in every TES game to varying degrees), I do see one thing that's repeatedly being overlooked here. There are enchantments that can be put on robes, jewelry & hoods or the headbands that increase destruction skill. There's even a Fortify Magicka and Destruction enchantment. Max out your enchanting skill and you can slap double enchantments on items, so theoretically you could increase destruction twice per item. Then there are fortify destruction potions also. Even without the Skyrim Community Uncapper, those options allow your skill to be modified over 100. That makes it a little less useless than people are stating
GrimReaper Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/43123/? Get this to cast spells automatically. The biggest gripe with Skyrim's magic is that as a mage, you quickly run out of shortcuts for spells. This mod is somewhat of a bandaid, as long as you have magicka, you can configure the conditions for automatic spell casting, like healing if below 50% hp or cast xy-flesh at the start of combat etc. It might be a bit unbalanced since you skip the casting animation, but then again you can also go into your inventory and chug 50 healing potions at once. Also you should use SPERG, it might not be the biggest perk overhaul out there, but it's exactly what it says, a perk overhaul. Nothing more, nothing less - no automatic patcher needed and compatible with almost anything that doesn't touch perks.
Coopervane Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Wow, this thread really took off. To be fair, I haven't played a pure mage at higher levels, so my POV here may be a bit limited... That said though, AND keeping in mind that I *do* agree magic IS underpowered (has been in every TES game to varying degrees), I do see one thing that's repeatedly being overlooked here. There are enchantments that can be put on robes, jewelry & hoods or the headbands that increase destruction skill. There's even a Fortify Magicka and Destruction enchantment. Max out your enchanting skill and you can slap double enchantments on items, so theoretically you could increase destruction twice per item. Then there are fortify destruction potions also. Even without the Skyrim Community Uncapper, those options allow your skill to be modified over 100. That makes it a little less useless than people are stating Eh? Destruction skill? You get enchants that lets you reduce the cost of Destruction, but i've never seen one that lifts your skill level. Nor would it really matter come to think of it, as the spells don't level with your skill, skill only matters for getting access to the perks. What you really want in terms of mage enchants is magic-regen, get enough of that stuff and you can basically give yourself infinate casting.
Chaos63 Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I always ignore health and stamina and put everything into magicka, then take a tank follower. Couple that with magic regen enchantments and voila, magic battery. Get one-shotted by pretty much everything, but shit usually dies before it can get within 10 meters. So long as you know how to dodge arrows and avoid mages like the plague, you're invincible.
Gameplayer Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 I'm certain that Destruction damage is effected by skill level. There is no way to enchant up magic skill levels either. Leveling magic is a pain due to attacks being entirely based on mana, a severe difference in starting skill levels, and well spells are fairly weak overall except in specific situations. Mages make good support role characters unfortunately and not hero's in Skyrim. A lot of people covered the elements but I didn't see a mention about Fire having this effect as a base "oppenents on fire take extra damage" this is from all sources.
vram1974 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Posted June 23, 2015 If you want to play mage give requiem a go, but be warned that certain perks and spells are downright OP at the moment and the progression from weakling who dies in 1 shot from bandit to demigod who rips apart dragon priests and dragons with little effort is very real in requiem. Destruction and conjuration are insanely powerful, but that also means enemies using these sort of spells will ruin your day as well. Infact , for any character in requiem I played enchanting magic/elemental resist is a must cause otherwise game is downright impossible. Requiem coupled with FMR / apocalypse /dwemertech is something i'd recommend for anybody who likes playing mage characters, theres no other mod that comes near. Requiem 1.9 just dropped, are you talking about that release or the 1.82 version?
nidhogga Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Requiem 1.9 just dropped, are you talking about that release or the 1.82 version? Afaik requiem 1.9 didnt change much in terms of mechanics/balance, its mostly update to skyproc patcher that makes it easier for other mods to work with it.
afa Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 In vanilla only fortify destruction potion increases magic damage. The enchantment only cuts spell cost. Skill level only decrease cost, up to about ~40% at 100. All magic branch skills behave the same way. Funny enough I never spend point in magicka when level. It is always health or stamina. When spell cost is at zero all that investment goes to waste. Health if you want to win, stamina for "technically best" and convenience.
carnifex Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Tried playing a vanilla mage once, it wasn't a good experience. Most of the time I just hid behind Lydia and flame atronachs, then I gave up and decided to cheese it with free destruction spells and Impact. Not only did I waste a couple hours grinding enchanting, the results proved mind-bogglingly boring. So, now I can spam infinite spells that keep stunning the enemy until he dies? Yeah, no way this will get old in five minutes. The moral of the story is simple: use an overhaul of your choice. I'm personally partial to PerMa.
Nixea Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I don't generlaly enjoy playing a pure mage. I almost always go for magic knight/paladin like builds because of how versatile they are.
Epic Gamer Frey Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 All you need is Skytweak. You can scale the damage increase however you like. You can tweak everything. I linked it on the last page, but didn't explain anything (was too tired).
JadefireHellcaller Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 PerMa (and Skyre as I remember) are great for allowing you to play a mage specialising in one or two schools of magic, rather than being forced to use all of them. Can make focused and characterful builds viable. Focus perks are fantastic for this, as you only get one (or maybe two if you take a dummy perk in alteration) amongst all magic schools. You can play a mage that kills through plague and heals themself, or a mage that damages through telekinesis and uses wards and mage armor for defense.
xGHoSTx Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 I've played Skyrim for hundreds of hours and I've experimented with a number of different builds. But I've never played the magical character. The main reason is that the whole thing overwhelms me. You start with 2 spells, you add more, suddenly you've got dozens and I have no idea what to pick? My primitive brain always goes back to basics: get big axe, swing into enemy head, enjoy blood splatter. But I'd like to become more cerebral and learn how to mage. Can somebody recommend a build or a guide of some sort? to be honest with mages there is one rule you need to remember get yourself to about 200-300 magicka and then go up the novice to master side of the spell tree to lower the magicka requirement OR enchant your gear with the "magic school name" (eg destruction) costs less magicka do that and its as easy as equip your spells and fire away
afa Posted June 25, 2015 Posted June 25, 2015 Tried playing a vanilla mage once, it wasn't a good experience. Most of the time I just hid behind Lydia and flame atronachs, then I gave up and decided to cheese it with free destruction spells and Impact. Not only did I waste a couple hours grinding enchanting, the results proved mind-bogglingly boring. So, now I can spam infinite spells that keep stunning the enemy until he dies? Yeah, no way this will get old in five minutes. The moral of the story is simple: use an overhaul of your choice. I'm personally partial to PerMa. Same experience here with my first serious character. Wanted to give magic a try with the whole "new dual casting system" in skyrim. And just when I thought that was cheese enough, I decided to switch over to archery for something new...and well, rather than needing to stun someone over and over again, how about just kill them all in one hit instead?
carnifex Posted June 26, 2015 Posted June 26, 2015 I'll take archery over endless stunlock spam each and every time.
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