Bad Dog's Immersive Creatures - SIC Addon

[leeemanl]

Hi Bad Dog ty for your work, is there any solution on draugr's female disappearing legs?

[Bad Dog]

I haven't seen the disappearing leg problem in a while. Follow the instructions in the OP to get the draugr's base ID and let me know which it is. (Or tell me where to look for them, but that's less certain.)

[tanuhk]

Bad Dog, ever considered doing an add-on for the creatures included in Moonpath to Elsweyr? From what I can see, they're different to the ones in Immersive Creatures.

[Bad Dog]

Yes they are, and I have, but the interesting ones need animations. 

[Teruke]

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/67103/?

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65134/?

 

what about any of this? I'm particular about the shivering isles one.. maybe? From what i can tell, the grumites use falmer skeleton, i'm making this assessment from the shots in there, but if that's the case that means they need a dong model and the flamer anims enabled for them?

 

i'm just throwing it out here >.>

[Kane21742]

any place i can get or can i get help with the mods i do have i cant seems to make them work . i have sexlab-matchmaker-scent of sex plz help i would love to see them work are there other mods i need on top of them or what i dont want to use Nexus u have to pay

[Guest]

any place i can get or can i get help with the mods i do have i cant seems to make them work . i have sexlab-matchmaker-scent of sex plz help i would love to see them work are there other mods i need on top of them or what i dont want to use Nexus u have to pay

 

Hello.

 

If you have problems with SexLab itself go to this thread.

If you have problems with MatchMaker (but I don't think it is possible to have problems with it), go there.

For Scent of Sex, go there.

[Bad Dog]

And you don't have to pay for Nexus.

And they don't have the mods you want.

And post your full load order if you want real advice.

[InbredEvil]

Hello,

 

I have this weird issue, and I'm not sure what the issue is caused by but I think it might either Creature Framework or Immersive Creatures.

 

The issue is that when I start a new game, the creatures from Immersive Creatures load well into creature framework and when I summon them they do have penises and the animations to go alone with these. 

 

Then, as I play through the game, an issue seems to happen in which one of these functions crash(?), and the Immersive creatures no longer load in creature framework, and their penis's no longer spawn. Now I don't think its every single creature, as there are about 14 pages that load semi-properly (some of the creature's BDIC don't load, it says something like "Disabled"). The pages that aren't loading seem to be empty, but the lines for them are there, just no words between them. 

 

I'm not sure what's causing this problem, though I've hear of something called save-bloating. Could this be it? Is it possible that the game is loading so much that some features aren't working? What could be my problem?

 

Edit: I ran "Re-register mods" in creature framework and it seems to have worked. Does anyone know how to prevent this crash, or is it something I'll have to deal with on a regular basis? This problem is a reason I did a clean install awhile back, to see if I could fix it.

[Bad Dog]

Yup. That happens.

 

I think it's a bug in Creature Framework. CF uses JContainers, which is an abomination. It's the only storage mechanism I've ever seen that throws away your storage while you're still using it. The theory is that if you're only using some storage for a short time you don't have to worry about getting rid of it because JC will do it for you--preventing save game bloat. But if the script runs slower than you expected JC will throw your storage away while you're still using it, leading to very subtle and hard to reproduce bugs. 

 

My theory is that this is what's happening--SIC includes so many creatures that some part of CF is taking longer to complete than expected and JC is throwing away temporary storage that CF is depending on. There was another bug like that a while back, tho that one is now fixed.

 

Anyhoo, the result is that sometimes CF doesn't load all the creatures correctly. The fix is to just do what you did and re-register mods. 

[Earen]

Yup. That happens.

 

I think it's a bug in Creature Framework. CF uses JContainers, which is an abomination. It's the only storage mechanism I've ever seen that throws away your storage while you're still using it. The theory is that if you're only using some storage for a short time you don't have to worry about getting rid of it because JC will do it for you--preventing save game bloat. But if the script runs slower than you expected JC will throw your storage away while you're still using it, leading to very subtle and hard to reproduce bugs. 

 

My theory is that this is what's happening--SIC includes so many creatures that some part of CF is taking longer to complete than expected and JC is throwing away temporary storage that CF is depending on. There was another bug like that a while back, tho that one is now fixed.

 

Anyhoo, the result is that sometimes CF doesn't load all the creatures correctly. The fix is to just do what you did and re-register mods.

 

Few month ago I posted a link to  allow users and mod authors to test their setups, trace access to deleted object. Is ANYONE replied or tested? No. Should I care?  Probably not

 

Before blaming JC for its memory management mechanism, care to read the documentation. Maybe reference counted memory management is something odd for you too? Any modder is free to use release and retain functions everywhere and thus fallback to non-throw-away memory mechanism. If someone is unable to handle the tool properly, just don't use it, make your life easier

 

[Bad Dog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ref counted mm is different from what JC is doing. Ref counts mean memory isn't freed if there's still a reference to it; the coder has to make sure to properly remove all references so the memory gets freed. What I got from the docs, which I did read, is that JC is freeing the memory whether there's a ref to it or not.

 

I appreciate the goal of not having memory leaks, this being Skyrim. But I think this approach swaps one kind of problem for another which is worse, and at least harder to debug. Thing is, this being Skyrim, you pretty much never have any guarantee that any routine will finish in any finite time--which puts you back in the situation of having to retain everything.

 

Good that you have debugging tools, which I didn't know about. I'll have a look at that (you could post a link here, actually). But given that the problem is intermittent, it may still be hard to find. And if I'm right the problem isn't even in my mod and I'm not sure how enthusiastic the author will be for making changes. 

[Earen]

There are no any refs created automatically by Papyrus VM thus there is no any magik knowledge of refs unless an object is retained by user. Or referenced by another object.

 

The link: http://www.loverslab.com/topic/24777-jcontainers/page-19?do=findComment&comment=1449116

 

And I'm probably a mad scientist with his abomination willing to corrupt virgin world of LL modding. Sounds interesting

[Bad Dog]

Def a mad scientist. 

 

I looked at the link but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. JC can (sometimes?) identify attempts to access released memory and prints a log message? Under what circumstances? I don't see any such messages in the log when CF has a problem.

 

Some MM systems write memory to some known value -- all 00's or 11's -- when it's released. That way at least if the mod is not handling memory properly it fails quickly in an obvious way rather than randomly in a way that's hard to debug. Maybe a debug mod that did this would be useful.

[Earen]

Def a mad scientist. 

 

I looked at the link but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. JC can (sometimes?) identify attempts to access released memory and prints a log message? Under what circumstances? I don't see any such messages in the log when CF has a problem.

 

Some MM systems write memory to some known value -- all 00's or 11's -- when it's released. That way at least if the mod is not handling memory properly it fails quickly in an obvious way rather than randomly in a way that's hard to debug. Maybe a debug mod that did this would be useful.

 

It will identify it always. No way to miss it. It will print track trace into Papyrus log (the most precious info) saying some nonsense (nonsense because there is no way to do it properly, unless trick Papyrus VM) and referring to JC's function and will also write a warning into JContainers.log file.

 

> Some MM systems write memory to some known value -- all 00's or 11's -- when it's released.

 

Where do they write memory? And why it's more obvious? Diagnostics version I uploaded is already some sort of debug mod

[Bad Dog]

Oh, okay. So your attached zip on that post is a drop-in replacement for JC with diagnostics turned on. I'll give that a try with CF running and see what I see.

 

What I meant with writing 00's or 11's, is that when a block of memory is "freed" by the manager, it overwrites that block with it's own pattern, 00s or 11s or 0101s. That way if the mod tries to access the memory they get garbage back and probably fail. And if the pattern is recognizable you know why it failed.

[Earen]

 

What I meant with writing 00's or 11's, is that when a block of memory is "freed" by the manager, it overwrites that block with it's own pattern, 00s or 11s or 0101s. That way if the mod tries to access the memory they get garbage back and probably fail. And if the pattern is recognizable you know why it failed.

 

 In my case the pointer to a freed object's memory simply can't be found because the object's identifier no longer registered in the table. Because the object was deleted and unregistered. Otherwise that would result in lot of CTDs here and there

[Ep1cL3w7z]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ref counted mm is different from what JC is doing. Ref counts mean memory isn't freed if there's still a reference to it; the coder has to make sure to properly remove all references so the memory gets freed. What I got from the docs, which I did read, is that JC is freeing the memory whether there's a ref to it or not.

 

I appreciate the goal of not having memory leaks, this being Skyrim. But I think this approach swaps one kind of problem for another which is worse, and at least harder to debug. Thing is, this being Skyrim, you pretty much never have any guarantee that any routine will finish in any finite time--which puts you back in the situation of having to retain everything.

 

Good that you have debugging tools, which I didn't know about. I'll have a look at that (you could post a link here, actually). But given that the problem is intermittent, it may still be hard to find. And if I'm right the problem isn't even in my mod and I'm not sure how enthusiastic the author will be for making changes.

If you're talking about me, I'll definitely fix any problems you identify. I can't diagnose it myself, as I've never been able to reproduce it.

[Bad Dog]

I'll let you know if I find anything. I only see it myself once every 5-10 game loads.

[surplusDOS]

From what I can tell, SIC adds only a handful of new enemies, with most being retextures/variants of existing enemies. This is not a bad thing, but I'm more interested in the animations. I've certainly seen some of the 'new' enemies like the baby wolf but the animations don't work, although it tries to play the default wolf animation, so I'm wondering how many more new animations(as in not already present in some form in MNC) this mod adds to the game.

 

My apologies in advance if this information is stated somewhere here, I did do a quick search but nothing came up.

[Bad Dog]

Very few mods add actual new creatures with new animations. All the SIC "new" creatures are new meshes on existing skeletons, using existing animations. 

 

Moonpath adds a theropod-style predator which looks like it has unique animations. I think it's the monster mod that adds a triceratops, but I don't know if it has unique animations or if it just uses the mammoth skeleton. MM does add some creatures with wings (drakes) which look fairly stupid, because without unique animations the wings just stick out there stiffly.

 

Making a new creature is hard--you need about two dozen animations just to do the basics--walk, run, walk/run on a slant, stand still (which isn't entirely still), sit, lie down, die, attack, power attack, ditto while moving left/right/forward/back, etc etc.

 

If you just mean sex animations, MNC is the only game in town. All the creature animations get rolled up in there, so far as I'm aware. I don't know of any creature sex animations which aren't based on an existing vanilla skeleton.

[surplusDOS]

Very few mods add actual new creatures with new animations. All the SIC "new" creatures are new meshes on existing skeletons, using existing animations. 

 

Moonpath adds a theropod-style predator which looks like it has unique animations. I think it's the monster mod that adds a triceratops, but I don't know if it has unique animations or if it just uses the mammoth skeleton. MM does add some creatures with wings (drakes) which look fairly stupid, because without unique animations the wings just stick out there stiffly.

 

Making a new creature is hard--you need about two dozen animations just to do the basics--walk, run, walk/run on a slant, stand still (which isn't entirely still), sit, lie down, die, attack, power attack, ditto while moving left/right/forward/back, etc etc.

 

If you just mean sex animations, MNC is the only game in town. All the creature animations get rolled up in there, so far as I'm aware. I don't know of any creature sex animations which aren't based on an existing vanilla skeleton.

I hope I didn't come off as condescending or rude, that was definitely not my intention. I greatly appreciate your work and SIC. I just usually test out all new animations as soon I get them to ensure that they are working properly and that there are no conflicts with pre-existing mods. As such without the summoning options that MNC had in the form of Hentai Creatures, I would have had to manually track down each new monster added with SIC to test the animations. It's good to know that there probably won't be any incompatibility in this case. Thank you very much for your hard work and swift reply!

[Bad Dog]

Pull in my Immersive Hentai Creatures mod. It will give you spells for summoning the SIC creatures.

 

Some spells summon an entire class of creatures and which one you get is random. But they'll all be minor variants on the same body model and skeleton, so it will work for your purposes.

[surplusDOS]

No idea how I missed that, many thanks!

[Arcturus7777]

Skyrim immersive creatures was updated it has only one file.  I am getting loot errors using the one file with this mod.