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Is the latest RaceMenu version able to replace ECE?


NNS10

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I'm a long time ECE user, but the lack of updates is a bit concerning. While ECE remains quiet, RaceMenu has been integrating more and more ECE features, so I've been watching that and wondering if I should transition to RaceMenu at some point.

 

The latest version of RaceMenu includes the CharGen extension and the ECE morphs and sliders. Has anyone tried the latest version and been able to compare it to ECE? Are RaceMenu's ECE morphs and sliders able to produce the same face as in ECE?

 

I know there are still other aspects of ECE to consider, like CMEs and Vertex Editor, but for now I'm just curious about how well RaceMenu can replicate ECE's morphs and sliders.

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Guest NeonFirefly

I'm a long-time ECE user, but I recently switched to the newest version of RaceMenu. I feel like the two are very similar at this point, but I had a lot of trouble recreating my old characters. Plus I've been seeing some odd features, like duplicate sliders (i.e. two different nose shape sliders on the same tab) and I don't know if stuff like that is intentional or not. For now, I'm still more comfortable with ECE, but I'm hoping to be able to eventually make the transition to RaceMenu for its better interface and superior warpaint and overlay compatibility.

 

It would be nice if they were still compatible. My normal setup is ECE with an older version of RaceMenu on top of it, but the latest versions of RaceMenu aren't compatible with ECE, so it's a matter of picking one or the other.

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I'm a long-time ECE user, but I recently switched to the newest version of RaceMenu. I feel like the two are very similar at this point, but I had a lot of trouble recreating my old characters. Plus I've been seeing some odd features, like duplicate sliders (i.e. two different nose shape sliders on the same tab) and I don't know if stuff like that is intentional or not. 

 

Similar sliders but how they warp the mesh is different. I can get combinations from RaceMenu I could only dream of from ECE, but ECE's Vertex Editor can counteract the problem.

 

Once RaceMenu's Vertex Editor is fully functional, then it's a done deal. EXCEPT for how ECE saves faces, I still think that is superior(outside of the part where you can't save and load at will, I'm referring to how it keeps the whole face geom unconditionally). 

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Iv used ECE since it came out and racmenu on and off. Right now i believe that ece still provides way more customization in facial feature then racemenu. Racemenu is getting on par with ece when it comes to that respect but its still not there yet. When racemenu *COMPLETELY* merges ECE face morphs then ill switch over or makes better ones.  Now on the other hand racmenu is leaps and bounds ahead of ece when it comes to overall customization to the body.

 

So id still wait untill racemenu improves or merges the facial morphs or adds a system to be able to replace racemenu morphs with custome ones. The extra morph system that racemenu has now does not work anymore with ece.

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I have tried both, I use Racemenu as I felt overall it was the better of the two. With that said I still think ECE has a slight edge when it comes to face morphing over Racemenu but Racemenu is as good or better in all the other area's.

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I've been having some serious laggy issues with the sliders since RM's last update, I'm seriously considering downgrading for now. 

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Yeah I've been playing with RaceMenu as of late while I was making a child replacer for SkyKids. It has gotten a lot better since the last time I tried it (back when it first came out). I still do love ECE and it's vertex editor, but now that I am more familiar with RaceMenu after using it for the last week, I think I'm going to give it a shot this time around.

 

Plus it has all those overlays that peak my interest the most. No more having to make custom skin textures with tattoos in Photoshop, when I can just use the overlay system now.

 

So here's hoping it can live up to my expectations, and I won't have to uninstall it and go back to ECE and the old ways. Was kind of disheartened that ECE has basically been abandoned now.

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Wow, didn't expect so many useful responses so quickly. The general consensus seems to be that ECE is still slightly superior for face customization.

 

Iv used ECE since it came out and racmenu on and off. Right now i believe that ece still provides way more customization in facial feature then racemenu. Racemenu is getting on par with ece when it comes to that respect but its still not there yet. When racemenu *COMPLETELY* merges ECE face morphs then ill switch over or makes better ones.  Now on the other hand racmenu is leaps and bounds ahead of ece when it comes to overall customization to the body.

 

So id still wait untill racemenu improves or merges the facial morphs or adds a system to be able to replace racemenu morphs with custome ones. The extra morph system that racemenu has now does not work anymore with ece.

 

Can you elaborate on what is still missing from RaceMenu?

 

 

On a separate topic, does RaceMenu have some alternative to CMEs? I saw some save/load from clipboard feature. My understanding is this is how people "undo" changes, but is it possible to use that feature to save presets (e.g. paste into text file to reuse in the future)?

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Wow, didn't expect so many useful responses so quickly. The general consensus seems to be that ECE is still slightly superior for face customization.

 

Iv used ECE since it came out and racmenu on and off. Right now i believe that ece still provides way more customization in facial feature then racemenu. Racemenu is getting on par with ece when it comes to that respect but its still not there yet. When racemenu *COMPLETELY* merges ECE face morphs then ill switch over or makes better ones.  Now on the other hand racmenu is leaps and bounds ahead of ece when it comes to overall customization to the body.

 

So id still wait untill racemenu improves or merges the facial morphs or adds a system to be able to replace racemenu morphs with custome ones. The extra morph system that racemenu has now does not work anymore with ece.

 

Can you elaborate on what is still missing from RaceMenu?

 

 

On a separate topic, does RaceMenu have some alternative to CMEs? I saw some save/load from clipboard feature. My understanding is this is how people "undo" changes, but is it possible to use that feature to save presets (e.g. paste into text file to reuse in the future)?

 

Really just some of the face morphing options is about the only thing ECE has that Racemenu doesn't and Racemenu has them just not as many or IMHO as good, but for me good enough.

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

 

 

 

 

 

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

 

RaceMenu 3.0 will have pretty much everything ECE has plus a way better thingy than the vertex editor. I've been pretty much bugging Expired daily to hurry up and finish it as RM's method will work with a a lot more than the just face. It'll work with beast races, have this thingy that adjusts hairs and more.

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

Sounded like it's more than just the vertex editor. Someone above mentioned RaceMenu doesn't have all of ECE's sliders yet.

 

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

Sounded like it's more than just the vertex editor. Someone above mentioned RaceMenu doesn't have all of ECE's sliders yet.

 

 

 

As well, people were mentioning the FaceMorphs that ECE has, along with the Vertex Editor of course. And then you have the slot loads that ECE uses (CME) which are better than the ones CGE uses (everything saves to slot0, while ECE let's you choose what slot to save to). Plus RaceMenu has a tendency to reset your sliders back to default when you open it up again, while ECE saves your settings. And ECE also has the undo feature, so if you totally botch something, you can just press page up to undo all the changes. Plus ECE has it's own built in vampire sunken cheek fix, so no extra mods required for that. And it comes with it's own optional custom Ygnord race that you can put any meshes/textures in to create your own custom race on the fly without any need for the creation kit. And then of course, increase the sliders by 2x, 4x, 8x, etc and then you have the Expression sliders to fine tune your expression.

 

RaceMenu is missing a lot of that stuff. Only thing I think RaceMenu has that ECE doesn't, is the overlays. Which are actually pretty neat.

 

But trust me, if you've ever used the Vertex Editor in ECE, you will see it really is a big deal. Being able to fine tune every single vertex in your character's face is just awesome. No more being stuck with a blocky jagged chin, or weird spikes sticking out of your dimples/cheeks. Fine tune those brow lines and nostril creases. It makes a huge difference.

 

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

I have never tried ECE myself but i think you may be right in this : ECE will be disapearing soon when the next major of Racemenu will come out. For the moement, the absence of a vertex editor and some morphs (not many). We'll see soon ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

Sounded like it's more than just the vertex editor. Someone above mentioned RaceMenu doesn't have all of ECE's sliders yet.

 

 

 

 

 

RaceMenu is missing a lot of that stuff. Only thing I think RaceMenu has that ECE doesn't, is the overlays. Which are actually pretty neat.

 

But trust me, if you've ever used the Vertex Editor in ECE, you will see it really is a big deal. Being able to fine tune every single vertex in your character's face is just awesome. No more being stuck with a blocky jagged chin, or weird spikes sticking out of your dimples/cheeks. Fine tune those brow lines and nostril creases. It makes a huge difference.

 

 

As well, people were mentioning the FaceMorphs that ECE has, along with the Vertex Editor of course. And then you have the slot loads that ECE uses (CME) which are better than the ones CGE uses (everything saves to slot0, while ECE let's you choose what slot to save to). Plus RaceMenu has a tendency to reset your sliders back to default when you open it up again, while ECE saves your settings. And ECE also has the undo feature, so if you totally botch something, you can just press page up to undo all the changes. Plus ECE has it's own built in vampire sunken cheek fix, so no extra mods required for that. And it comes with it's own optional custom Ygnord race that you can put any meshes/textures in to create your own custom race on the fly without any need for the creation kit. And then of course, increase the sliders by 2x, 4x, 8x, etc and then you have the Expression sliders to fine tune your expression.

 

 

Ah ? But everyone can use any slot she/he want to use. The only thing is : you must reselect each time you open the race menu. No big deal in fact (you have a total of 56 slots available, from 0 to 55).

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

Sounded like it's more than just the vertex editor. Someone above mentioned RaceMenu doesn't have all of ECE's sliders yet.

 

 

ECE morphs were adapted to CharGen back in September, the latest version of RM is now fully integrated with the CharGen package. 

 

ECE hasn't had an update since October last year. Race Menu has been consistently improved with lots of goodies in that time, both by Expired and modders making full use of the plugins feature for stuff like the skeleton morphs or the texture overlays.  ECE's only significant advantage as of now is vertex editing and being able to revert changes in steps. Judging by RM's progress I wouldn't bet on that lasting long. 

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After trying the new RM i still don't like it. The face morphs are just better in ece and the vertex editor is a must for me. Also ece has the undo and redo option which is great when you screw up the face without knowing what you did.

 

expired6978 should just take over ece if it's abandoned and completly incorporate it into racemenu or make a version that uses ece morphs completely.

I don't see why expired would want to bother with an old and badly neglected mod that uses quite a radically different method under the hood. Besides, RM can already do any morph ECE can, and it has a lot more other things going for it besides. The only thing missing is a vertex editor and expired is working on that.

 

If ECE's only advantage is it's vertex editor, I don't see a bright future for it and it's probably better off left for dead in the long run. 

 

 

Sounded like it's more than just the vertex editor. Someone above mentioned RaceMenu doesn't have all of ECE's sliders yet.

 

 

ECE morphs were adapted to CharGen back in September, the latest version of RM is now fully integrated with the CharGen package. 

 

ECE hasn't had an update since October last year. Race Menu has been consistently improved with lots of goodies in that time, both by Expired and modders making full use of the plugins feature for stuff like the skeleton morphs or the texture overlays.  ECE's only significant advantage as of now is vertex editing and being able to revert changes in steps. Judging by RM's progress I wouldn't bet on that lasting long. 

 

 

Thats pretty much thats what im waiting on RM to catch up on. I need vertex editor, i can't make a character without it. I need those things for me to even think about using RM and also the revert changes botton would be nice to.

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I just spent over an hour using the newest version of Race Menu. I wanted to give it a fair shake. I am NOT impressed. It morphs the same dated vanilla Skyrim head mesh and THAT is why it's inferior. Faces end up with more jagged edges, spikey cheeks near the eyes, brows can clip into the forehead, the multiple sliders are nearly a nightmare. This is a cool tool for all that it does, but it really, really needs some more refinement. As it stands right now I don't think it compares to ECE when basing it on the final product.....a face. And it really, really needs the skeleton sliders, too. ECE also has built in racial compatibility so it frees up another slot in your load order.

 

But I did try it on profiles/characters that were already made with ECE. I did, however, start with a fresh preset. And now I just made a whole new profile (Mod Organizer kicks freakin' ass!) to try a fresh one that only uses RM right from the start. I figure I should if I want to be totally fair.

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I just spent over an hour using the newest version of Race Menu. I wanted to give it a fair shake. I am NOT impressed. It morphs the same dated vanilla Skyrim head mesh and THAT is why it's inferior [...]

 

Doesn't RaceMenu have an ECE head morph?

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I just spent over an hour using the newest version of Race Menu. I wanted to give it a fair shake. I am NOT impressed. It morphs the same dated vanilla Skyrim head mesh and THAT is why it's inferior. Faces end up with more jagged edges, spikey cheeks near the eyes, brows can clip into the forehead, the multiple sliders are nearly a nightmare. This is a cool tool for all that it does, but it really, really needs some more refinement. As it stands right now I don't think it compares to ECE when basing it on the final product.....a face. And it really, really needs the skeleton sliders, too. ECE also has built in racial compatibility so it frees up another slot in your load order.

 

But I did try it on profiles/characters that were already made with ECE. I did, however, start with a fresh preset. And now I just made a whole new profile (Mod Organizer kicks freakin' ass!) to try a fresh one that only uses RM right from the start. I figure I should if I want to be totally fair.

This.

 

I tried going back to the new RaceMenu with a fresh install awhile back. The chin, cheek, near eye along with corner of mouth jagged edges gave me a huge problem. The way the sliders morph the face seem to behave differently than ECE, not necessarily bad, but it seems to change more things at once than I would like. The multiple sliders doing the same thing needs some serious interface rearrangement. I vaguely remember ECE having an eye slider than can adjust height or each corner of the eye independently, could be the expression slider, that was pretty useful.

 

I have compare the files of both and there are differences between them, although I can't say what it is exactly besides the headmesh which can easily be switch.

 

I can honestly say I have spent more time with RaceMenu at this point than ECE and am still at a lost on creating a decent face.

There are also more presets for ECE out there than that of RaceMenu.

 

The potential is definitely there, however at this point in time with the abundance of presets available for ECE and RaceMenu probably still have some work to do it'll probably be a while before it takes over, we are probably approaching or already at the difficult time in between the peak of both.

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Just to toss my two cents into the conversation.  I started with RaceMenu/Chargen and later tried ECE, went back and forth a bit but I find ECE to be superior.  I can get good results with RaceMenu but as others have pointed out the slider menus are a mess and a bit confusing.  The other feature I really like with ECE is the skeleton manipulation, I love being able to make narrow shoulders or a thicker waist, maybe shorter legs.  It's all very neat and tidy.  I saw the link that someone had posted about the skeleton sliders earlier in this thread, that may be very promising but on the other hand it just adds another mod to the list.  The only feature that I find superior on RaceMenu is the overlay system, that is pretty slick.  If RaceMenu were to tidy up it's interface I would probably switch over but for now the process of making a decent looking character is more enjoyable, quicker and easier with ECE.  For me that is!

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