Skyrim to FO4 Animation Converter: It Works. Now What?

[Allnarta]

4 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Though, I suspect it's at least based on mo-cap.

 

I give 99% it's totally mocup conversion, just like Frozen's glorious walking mod (which he openly states, actually; and mind you, he is actual professional animator whose work is animating games).

But yeah, no offtop anymore.

Edited March 5 by Allnarta

[dagobaking]

Mocap gear, costwise, isn't completely out of reach any more: https://www.rokoko.com/products/smartsuit-pro

 

Even costs less than many GPU!

[guliguliradish]

3 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Mocap gear, costwise, isn't completely out of reach any more: https://www.rokoko.com/products/smartsuit-pro

 

Even costs less than many GPU!

However, action actors are expensive. Moreover, if it's an adult animation, you may need to pay the salaries of two or three people (but congratulations, you have become a director and producer).

[Allnarta]

AI develops rapidly though, and at some poine it will likely be enough to upload any pornhub video to get decent generated "mocap" sequence.  

[NCK30]

11 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

Huh. The Maligni animations you reference do look good. Though, I suspect it's at least based on mo-cap.

 

I would argue that CE0 has been the best over-all in Skyrim. But, its subjective.

 

In any case, it's true that its a deep learning curve to do well and deserves respect. But, it's also true that anyone can do it. You can do free tools set up and make your first animations in a day. And they might even be good on day one.

 

I both agree with You and disagree.

 

Malignis is so perfect that perhaps he is using some kind of tool that us others do not have access to.

 

CEO was the pioneer and a great OSEX aka Ostim author. I learned from his and Nibbles guides.

 

 

But claming that You can make a decent looking animation in one day with no experience is just plain Science Fiction.

 

At least I have not seen it ever. Even this Maligni says he spent 60 hours making the bath animation.

 

Downloading the tools needed is an even greater challenge.

 

 

I spent literally months making a massage animation that lasted 50 seconds. 

[leking]

Hello everyone, 

 

Not an animator here just an everyday user of this forum and maybe one day a mod maker.

 

So i asked multiple time to animators if it was possible for them to convert their animation to fallout 4 because we all know it severly lacks animations.

 

The answer that made the more sense for me was this one:

 

"The 1st problem is i do not master fallout 4 because i don't play it.  So i could agree if anyone else was doing the job since my animations are free BUT it means i will have to handover all my work to him which i can not agree...."

 

So basically i suppose giving the authors the tool to make the conversion themselves would be the best solution. Unless they specifically in their name give that right to another one.

 

Of course if authors do not like fallout 4 they might never get motivated to do it.

 

I suppose it also depends how long the process will take ? Can you provide at least a simple estimation of the time required for 1 animation ?

 

In my opinion fallout 4 desperately need those convertions because it would finally encourage mod authors to go to this game and bring something else than just guns and blades.

 

On my personal side i am thinking of making a sex mod for both fallout 4 and skyrim but because of the horrible lack of animation on fallout 4 i was thinking of only making it for skyrim....

 

another thing that could help would be to solve the problem between aaf and 3ba cause you have to choose between the 2....

 

that s off topic yes but it still count to help fallout 4 especially for collision etc...

Edited March 5 by leking

[JB.]

I've been a Skyrim animator for years and my unbiased vote is yes, release that tool.

[dagobaking]

18 hours ago, NCK30 said:

But claming that You can make a decent looking animation in one day with no experience is just plain Science Fiction.

 

I think this depends quite a bit on prior experience and probably just innate artistic ability.

 

If you've worked with any keyframing apps in the past (there are many) then the concept of animating technically will not be new. And understanding what movements look good to people is something that comes more or less naturally, depending on the person.

 

Yes. One person might start out at level 10 and take 20 years to get to level 100. But, others might start at level 50 and get to 100 in 3 hours.

 

I'm not trying to minimize the work that animators put in. There is a lot of depth to it and it can take a lot of time. But, that should not be intimidating to the potential new animator. It really is something you can just dive right into and try out.

 

18 hours ago, NCK30 said:

Downloading the tools needed is an even greater challenge.

 

Yes. On some platforms and for certain windows of time. But, for Fallout 4, users can now usually get all of that installed and running in 30 minutes. I made a kit that automates the publishing process from Blender, removing several steps that you used to need.

 

18 hours ago, NCK30 said:

I spent literally months making a massage animation that lasted 50 seconds. 

 

Yes. There is always room to spend tons of time refining and perfecting an animation. But, that doesn't mean that people can't pick it up quickly and produce great results in a short time.

 

10 hours ago, leking said:

I suppose it also depends how long the process will take ? Can you provide at least a simple estimation of the time required for 1 animation ?

 

The file conversion part goes very fast. You can convert an entire folder of animations in under a minute. I even added stages that create the esp and basic AAF XML for you. So, you can convert and load the files in game within a very short time (1-2 minutes?).

 

That said, there is some nuance here. The skeletons between games are different. Especially the arms. In Skyrim, the arms are roughly 1-2 hand lengths longer. The fingers are also longer. So, when the motion data is converted, there can be some alignment issues with where the hands end up, etc.

So, the quick conversion by itself is close. But, depending on the animation can be out of alignment.

 

I made another script in the pack that will allow you to import the converted animations into blender. From there, you can adjust/fix the alignment issues and republish. How long that takes? It depends on how perfect you want to get it. But, you could probably rush through one in 15 minutes or so once you have the tools and workflow down.

[SRBOT]

You can use FABRIK / IK solvers for retargeting arms.

[NCK30]

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

That said, there is some nuance here. The skeletons between games are different. Especially the arms. In Skyrim, the arms are roughly 1-2 hand lengths longer. The fingers are also longer. So, when the motion data is converted, there can be some alignment issues with where the hands end up, etc.

So, the quick conversion by itself is close. But, depending on the animation can be out of alignment.

 

I made another script in the pack that will allow you to import the converted animations into blender. From there, you can adjust/fix the alignment issues and republish. How long that takes? It depends on how perfect you want to get it. But, you could probably rush through one in 15 minutes or so once you have the tools and workflow down.

 

Alternatively.

 

Use SAM aka Screen Archer Menu. It exists for both Skyrim and Fallout.

You can adjust hands, feet and a whole lot more.

[leking]

8 hours ago, NCK30 said:

 

Alternatively.

 

Use SAM aka Screen Archer Menu. It exists for both Skyrim and Fallout.

You can adjust hands, feet and a whole lot more.

sure but you mean it will force the user to have screen archer menu in his game ? Fallout is rappidely over moded because you usually put a lot of new weapons etc. 

Edited March 6 by leking

[NCK30]

18 minutes ago, leking said:

sure but you mean it will force the user to have screen archer menu in his game ? Fallout is rappidely over moded because you usually put a lot of new weapons etc. 

 

Just a suggestion. I will keep to Skyrim and continue animating for that game. Do as You will...

[dagobaking]

23 hours ago, SRBOT said:

You can use FABRIK / IK solvers for retargeting arms.

 

Thank you. I'll look into FABRIK. I did try applying IK to the conversion math. It did help a little. But, it resulted in some odd results sometimes too. So, I stopped going down that path in favor of a manual option.

 

I think the issue is the arms. The Skyrim arms are so much longer that in some cases the FO4 cant possibly reach to the same places. So, decisions have to be made about the whole movement to get it "right".

 

20 hours ago, NCK30 said:

 

Alternatively.

 

Use SAM aka Screen Archer Menu. It exists for both Skyrim and Fallout.

You can adjust hands, feet and a whole lot more.

 

Yes. This is a great option. And probably faster. IIRC, you could even scale the arms in FO4 a bit so that they better align with the Skyrim animation.

[dagobaking]

Ok. Releasing this. If people can be cool I will refine it over time.

 

In particular, I need feedback on the FO4-to-Skyrim version as I couldn't test it in-game.

 

If it gets abused, I will take it down and just share revisions privately.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11 by dagobaking

[Pfiffy]

I'm comming from the other side of the tool. When I did all this conversions from Skyrim LE to Skyrim SE it was just running tools and converting was much easier that converting clothing mod or other stuff. The converter itself came with the game and someone just wrote a little batch for automatization. There was no magic behind this. The active animators didn't want to deal with the SE specific problems at that time. As things settled down in SE they took back the contol over their packs. The animators, who were out of buisness usually gave me the permission to port them. There was only one that refused.  When I look at dagobaking's work, conversions from Skyrim to FO4 might be possible now, but you have much more requirements and from the first reports the outcome needs some fixing that the usual gamer is not able to do. So the usage is limited to expirienced modders that have some knowledge about animations. 

The whole situation for SE at that time was different from the situation for FO4 right now. For SE we had nothing at that time. The packs for FO4 might be old and out of development for some years now, but there are at least some. And the mods that make use of them are out of development for years,too, but some of them require specific old animpacks.

This make me think, that the abuse of this tool will be much easier to control. On the other hand new anims might bring ppl back to modding FO4, because there is new stuff to work with. In the end it is up to the authors of Skyrim anims, who have to decide if they want to see their anims in FO4. For the FO4 Anims in Skyrim I see no need, because there are more anim packs already out there than the game could handle. There will be only a few ppl out there, who really want them (this my opinion, I might be wrong there). 

[leking]

Since Anub gave his permission apparently; is anybody already working on a conversion of his work yet ?

[Count Chocula]

The topic of game mods and copyright has been bashed around ad nauseum. Because game mods themselves violate copyright by creating derivative works of a copyrighted item (speaking just about U.S. law, here) it's hard to argue that the game mods themselves can be copyrighted. I'm not an IP lawyer, though. The "rights" mod authors have are those enforced by social convention on sites like this and Nexusmods. 

Edited April 12 by Count Chocula

[dagobaking]

20 hours ago, Count Chocula said:

The topic of game mods and copyright has been bashed around ad nauseum. Because game mods themselves violate copyright by creating derivative works of a copyrighted item (speaking just about U.S. law, here) it's hard to argue that the game mods themselves can be copyrighted. I'm not an IP lawyer, though. The "rights" mod authors have are those enforced by social convention on sites like this and Nexusmods. 

 

This simply is not true.

 

Game mods are not derivatives of works from games (unless they are edits of existing assets which are few and far between) and can absolutely be copyrighted.

Edited April 12 by dagobaking

[Count Chocula]

On 4/12/2026 at 2:25 PM, dagobaking said:

 

This simply is not true.

 

Game mods are not derivatives of works from games (unless they are edits of existing assets which are few and far between) and can absolutely be copyrighted.

From 17 U.S. Code section 101:

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. 

 

Hard to argue that mods which change the way characters look, move, act or sound are not adapting Skyrim. But you no doubt think it's an easy argument to make, since that's what your position is based on. A derivative work does not have to "edit  existing assets." If I make a Skyrim movie, I don't have to "edit existing assets," but it's definitely a derivative work.

 

In any event, you and I are at the "agree to disagree" stage on this. And you still have your "rights" that are based on social convention. But go ahead and do a search for "are game mods copyrighted" and let me know if you find any sources that say they are. That's not snarky, I'm genuinely curious that says more forceful than just "mod copyright is a gray area."

 

Here's a sample from a search I did. "Copyright in video games extends far beyond just the code. It encompasses visual assets, soundtracks, character designs, dialogue, and even the narrative structure." https://patentpc.com/blog/dmca-and-video-game-mods-navigating-copyright-laws Not offering it up as the be-all-end-all, just as a sample. And here's someone's opinion from Quora (which is hardly authoritative, but there we are). "From a legal perspective there really isn’t anything wrong with using another models [sic] since they likely do not own the IP for said models. Even if the models are original designs, they are likely too tied to the source material to claim any kind of legal protection for them." https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-sue-over-a-mod-from-a-video-game-that-someone-published-without-permission

Edited April 14 by Count Chocula

[OldTimer91]

13 hours ago, Count Chocula said:

 

I thought this thread is about animation mod authors expectations of ownership, giving their blessing to have their mods converted - nothing more...

 

Would love to see the debate about IP perhaps moved to a more general forum for discussions.

Edited April 14 by OldTimer91

[dagobaking]

On 4/13/2026 at 5:36 PM, Count Chocula said:

From 17 U.S. Code section 101:

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. 

 

Hard to argue that mods which change the way characters look, move, act or sound are not adapting Skyrim. But you no doubt think it's an easy argument to make, since that's what your position is based on. A derivative work does not have to "edit  existing assets." If I make a Skyrim movie, I don't have to "edit existing assets," but it's definitely a derivative work.

 

In any event, you and I are at the "agree to disagree" stage on this. And you still have your "rights" that are based on social convention. But go ahead and do a search for "are game mods copyrighted" and let me know if you find any sources that say they are. That's not snarky, I'm genuinely curious that says more forceful than just "mod copyright is a gray area."

 

Here's a sample from a search I did. "Copyright in video games extends far beyond just the code. It encompasses visual assets, soundtracks, character designs, dialogue, and even the narrative structure." https://patentpc.com/blog/dmca-and-video-game-mods-navigating-copyright-laws Not offering it up as the be-all-end-all, just as a sample. And here's someone's opinion from Quora (which is hardly authoritative, but there we are). "From a legal perspective there really isn’t anything wrong with using another models [sic] since they likely do not own the IP for said models. Even if the models are original designs, they are likely too tied to the source material to claim any kind of legal protection for them." https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-sue-over-a-mod-from-a-video-game-that-someone-published-without-permission

 

You're misreading legal terms and accepting random takes on the internet as authorative on this. This doesn't come from "agree to disagree" or bias toward what I want to be true. It comes from working closely with these issues in software, professionally, for over 20 years.

 

Bethesda’s own terms cut directly against the claim that mod authors have no rights. ZeniMax’s Terms of Service expressly say: “Each Game Mod is owned by the developer of the Game Mod,” with the qualification that ownership is subject to the licenses granted to ZeniMax in the Editor EULA. So even under Bethesda’s own language, the position is not “mod authors own nothing.” The more accurate reading is that mod authors own their mods, while also granting Bethesda/Zenimax broad license rights tied to use of the editor and the game ecosystem.

 

https://documents.bethesda.net/en/terms-of-service

 

There is a lot more I could say. But, I think this should be the smoking gun that settles this issue.

Edited April 15 by dagobaking

[dagobaking]

12 hours ago, OldTimer91 said:

I thought this thread is about animation mod authors expectations of ownership, giving their blessing to have their mods converted - nothing more...

 

Would love to see the debate about IP perhaps moved to a more general forum for discussions.

 

You have a fair point. But, I think this idea that mods are not copyrightable is super harmful to the community. It must be addressed and put to bed clearly.

 

When you make unique artwork, code, etc. INCLUDING GAME MODS, that automatically is owned by the author. And there are many mods that are not derivative of anything that was ever expressed or written in any Bethesda game. ADDING something to a game is not legally the same thing as BASING something off of a game.

 

If users run around thinking that its fair game to steal that work without permission, it substantially breaks the modding community and authors incentives to do the work in the first place.

[OldTimer91]

9 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

You have a fair point. But, I think this idea that mods are not copyrightable is super harmful to the community. It must be addressed and put to bed clearly.

 

When you make unique artwork, code, etc. INCLUDING GAME MODS, that automatically is owned by the author. And there are many mods that are not derivative of anything that was ever expressed or written in any Bethesda game. ADDING something to a game is not legally the same thing as BASING something off of a game.

 

If users run around thinking that its fair game to steal that work without permission, it substantially breaks the modding community and authors incentives to do the work in the first place.

 

Just hoping that this thread doesn't devolve into rage baiting for the sake of rage baiting on the topic.

 

[dagobaking]

On 4/15/2026 at 4:35 AM, OldTimer91 said:

 

Just hoping that this thread doesn't devolve into rage baiting for the sake of rage baiting on the topic.

 

 

Yeah. I agree with that. Thank you.

 

imo need to have some balance against that and also not letting bad information spread when there are people chomping at the bit for any excuse to take peoples work.

[Count Chocula]

On 4/14/2026 at 6:18 PM, dagobaking said:

 

You're misreading legal terms and accepting random takes on the internet as authorative on this. This doesn't come from "agree to disagree" or bias toward what I want to be true. It comes from working closely with these issues in software, professionally, for over 20 years.

 

Bethesda’s own terms cut directly against the claim that mod authors have no rights. ZeniMax’s Terms of Service expressly say: “Each Game Mod is owned by the developer of the Game Mod,” with the qualification that ownership is subject to the licenses granted to ZeniMax in the Editor EULA. So even under Bethesda’s own language, the position is not “mod authors own nothing.” The more accurate reading is that mod authors own their mods, while also granting Bethesda/Zenimax broad license rights tied to use of the editor and the game ecosystem.

 

https://documents.bethesda.net/en/terms-of-service

 

There is a lot more I could say. But, I think this should be the smoking gun that settles this issue.

I am not misreading legal terms. You're simply saying that I am. On the topic of authoritativeness, re-read my post and this time read all the words. Or don't. Whatever you want.

 

You mention ZeniMax's Editor EULA. I don't know what the Editor EULA says because it's an entirely different document. Do you know what it says? "The more accurate reading" would require looking at the Editor EULA, too.

 

ZeniMax saying mods are owned by mod authors is probably done to limit liability in case a mod does something legally actionable like depicting illegal activities. ZeniMax would want to be able to say "That mod depicting explicit underage activity has nothing to do with us, go after the mod author." That's not directly related to what I am talking about, though.

 

In any event, my assertion is that game mods are likely derivative works.  If we assumed that ZeniMax's ToS authorized mod makers to make derivatives works of their games, that would mean that they are not infringing, not that mods are not derivative works. But, you can argue that mods are not derivative works,

 

If you write an original piece of music, you own its copyright. If you use that piece of music in a Skyrim mod to replace the combat music that plays when you fight a dragon, my argument is that you are infringing on Microsoft's (or whoever's) copyright by making a derivative work. But you still have the copyright on your music.  Similarly, if these animations can somehow stand on their own, independent of the game they modify (which seems unlikely), I suppose they are copyrighted the same as a piece of music. But if they are, as the Quora user I quoted said,  "too tied to the source material," which I suspect they are, then they are both infringing derivative works (my assertion) and not amenable to their own legal protection (the Quora user's assertion).

 

Let's also consider the example of someone using their own voice to record all of Brynjolf's lines and then make a mod that replaces all the game's Brynjolf dialog with the new recordings. It's hard to argue that's not an infringing derivative work. This is not perfectly analogous to a mod that changes the way avatars move, but it's similar. In each case the contents of the mod aren't really of any use outside of the context of the game, unlike the music in the previous paragraph.

Edited April 27 by Count Chocula