Tails/Ears with physics inertia

[Yoo]

Just a quick tip

If you want to limit the speed of your ragdoll, use the "Max angular velocity" at the advanced properties of the "Rigid Body" modifier. But dont mess with "Linear velocity", the ragdoll wont be able to keep with the speed of the character (mostly while you sprint) because Linear velocity limits the speed of translation movements. While angular velocity just deals with the forces caused by rotations.

Also, you could use "linear damping" and "angular damping" that will tell the rigid body how fast it should set into resting position in the lapse of a second ranging from 0 to 1.

1 will be too much and your ragdoll will be quite static so try lower values.

 

One last thing, if you use multiple bones for the tail (I mean, more than 1 debris) remember that the limitations that I mentioned above will affect the rest of the chain, so the bigger values should go at the end (only if you want a slow and smooth motion).

[b00marrows]

as to continue with the trend of "I don't know what the fuck I am doing"

fuck the "lag bones" i'm diving straight into HDT:

 

progress!

1. edited tails to have mesh weight (loaded into Caliente's outfit studio and drew all over them with the paintbrush like a 5 year old and a permanent marker all over the walls)

2. added custom HDT perimeters to said tails (set to a custom file called HDTTails.xml)

3. started fidiling with "Just for fun" editing the .xml (insert meme post of dog in lab coat saying " i have no idea what i am doing")

 

4? disable tail animation???????

 

now, if any of this is correctly done please tell me, if not.... SCOLD ME AND POKE ME WITH A PITCHFORK I DESERVE IT!

 

any help would be accepted with deepest thanks!

 

 

[b00marrows]

I don't know how I forgot about the bones...

 

well I attempted to learn about bone's and everything but my brain exploded and now i have a headache... Im probably going to have to download 3dsmax. Im not looking forward to this...

 

on that note could someone explain a few things to me:

1. I would need to make my own skeleton, correct?

2. why do I have to make new bones when there are already 2 (i repeat 2 tails!) there?

3. when there are bones in both the skeleton AND the tail itself, what do i need to edit?

4. can i have an extra .xml file just for the tail? (for compatibility with other peoples files)

5. am i able to disable the tail animations? (im guessing it would make things easier/better)

 

why is this so hard...... i expect to just be able to put a "flag" on some bones and be done with it...

 

Im actually feeling a little depressed right now...

[blabba]

I don't know how I forgot about the bones...

 

well I attempted to learn about bone's and everything but my brain exploded and now i have a headache... Im probably going to have to download 3dsmax. Im not looking forward to this...

 

on that note could someone explain a few things to me:

1. I would need to make my own skeleton, correct?

2. why do I have to make new bones when there are already 2 (i repeat 2 tails!) there?

3. when there are bones in both the skeleton AND the tail itself, what do i need to edit?

4. can i have an extra .xml file just for the tail? (for compatibility with other peoples files)

5. am i able to disable the tail animations? (im guessing it would make things easier/better)

 

why is this so hard...... i expect to just be able to put a "flag" on some bones and be done with it...

 

Im actually feeling a little depressed right now...

 

I've tried going the .xml only way, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that you will not get what your looking for.

 

Canderes has posted very good videos on how to truly achieve the effect you desire (using 3dsmax and havok kit)

He's even given you some guidelines and a pre-fabbed mesh (albeit for ears).

 

To get the effect you want for the tail WILL require editing in 3dsmax to get the tail to correctly 'flow' and yes, if you want the tails 'flow' to be smooth it will require an edit to the HKX files.

 

As for making your own skeleton, don't over think it. Try testing with existing tail bones and see if you can get it to work at least roughly (make a proof of Concept)

 

As for the extra .xml, yes you can have an extra .xml (I just tested and it seems alrite) although you can probably just merge it into the existing .xmls as they do not touch tails currently (save that for after you get everything else working though).

 

Here's a method for success in modding.

1. Do your research as much as you can, and if you get stuck at any point ask/make a post about it. Modders hate having to point out to people that they answered the questions in their FAQ/readme's/ tutorial vids. You'll just lose respect that way.

2. Break things down into parts, for example you need an HDT rigged mesh, you then need a skeleton that supports it (after testing with current skeleton), after that you may need to work on the .xml.

3. Take your time on each part, and show what you've accomplished so far, Modders like seeing creative projects in the work and will be eager to help out on such projects.

4. Don't try to do it alone, while pro modders can do it all, beginners like you and me just can't or don't have enough skills/money/time to do it all. But if we make a good amount of headway other more experienced modders will always be willing to lend a hand whether in this forum or the plethora of others.

5. Don't be a leecher, If you learn some knowledge, share it and help others while your at it.

 

Sorry if this response is long and may not be exactly what your looking for. It's just that when I see your posts, I see myself around 1 month ago when I just started entering the modding scene by just simply 'writing guides about Outfit Studio' and then it evolved into me making a 'clean HDT weighted body with belly jiggle'. I can't say that I would have gotten to the amount of success/knowledge I have currently without major help from canderes, Groovtama and Vioxsis who all still continue to help me. But I didn't approach them with a simple request, I did my own tests and experiments and asked their help for each specific part of something that I myself couldn't do and thankfully they helped me.

 

TL;DR:

Don't be frustrated these things take time, try to gain as much knowledge and work on the project slowly but steadily. Ask for help when you have a specific question or need help with a specific part.

[Groovtama]

I've tried going the .xml only way, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that you will not get what your looking for.

 

 

Canderes has posted very good videos on how to truly achieve the effect you desire (using 3dsmax and havok kit)

He's even given you some guidelines and a pre-fabbed mesh (albeit for ears).

 

To get the effect you want for the tail WILL require editing in 3dsmax to get the tail to correctly 'flow' and yes, if you want the tails 'flow' to be smooth it will require an edit to the HKX files.

 

As for making your own skeleton, don't over think it. Try testing with existing tail bones and see if you can get it to work at least roughly (make a proof of Concept)

 

As for the extra .xml, yes you can have an extra .xml (I just tested and it seems alrite) although you can probably just merge it into the existing .xmls as they do not touch tails currently (save that for after you get everything else working though).

 

Here's a method for success in modding.

1. Do your research as much as you can, and if you get stuck at any point ask/make a post about it. Modders hate having to point out to people that they answered the questions in their FAQ/readme's/ tutorial vids. You'll just lose respect that way.

2. Break things down into parts, for example you need an HDT rigged mesh, you then need a skeleton that supports it (after testing with current skeleton), after that you may need to work on the .xml.

3. Take your time on each part, and show what you've accomplished so far, Modders like seeing creative projects in the work and will be eager to help out on such projects.

4. Don't try to do it alone, while pro modders can do it all, beginners like you and me just can't or don't have enough skills/money/time to do it all. But if we make a good amount of headway other more experienced modders will always be willing to lend a hand whether in this forum or the plethora of others.

5. Don't be a leecher, If you learn some knowledge, share it and help others while your at it.

 

Sorry if this response is long and may not be exactly what your looking for. It's just that when I see your posts, I see myself around 1 month ago when I just started entering the modding scene by just simply 'writing guides about Outfit Studio' and then it evolved into me making a 'clean HDT weighted body with belly jiggle'. I can't say that I would have gotten to the amount of success/knowledge I have currently without major help from canderes, Groovtama and Vioxsis who all still continue to help me. But I didn't approach them with a simple request, I did my own tests and experiments and asked their help for each specific part of something that I myself couldn't do and thankfully they helped me.

 

TL;DR:

Don't be frustrated these things take time, try to gain as much knowledge and work on the project slowly but steadily. Ask for help when you have a specific question or need help with a specific part.

 

 

Just some additions from me: (I'm not a HDT content creator, I have no knowlegde how stuff is don't just how what works with what)

- For HDT stuff you will probably not need a new/edited skeleton.hkx if that is what blabla means with, HDT goes on the bones directly.

- For skeleton bones,

Default TailBones are Havok controlled stuff, and believe me havok is a bitch if you want to edit/take something from her. And when I say bitch that is far far to nice.^^

The second tailbones with a C at the end (I think they have a C, if it is A or B athe end the following applies also) are bones from a mod called Deadly Mutilation which needs a second skeleton in the skeleton (you can't use them for meshes effective, keyed animation movement will only be given over the normal skeleton bones the DM bones are static, which may cause oddities).

I included a copy of the Tailbones named HDT Tailbones thus they have a different name and not controlled by Havok. Because of Havok doesn't care about them and will not be a bitch if you use them (added them for this problem).

Technically it should be enough if you rename the bone reference in a Tailmesh from TailboneXX to HDT TailboneXX, delete the Havok behaviour information from the file, and attach an xml with the HDT data for the tail only to the tail and profit. (That way the file will need the new tailbones from the skeleton to function, HDT meshes can also have parts of the skeleton included in their nif files, making them skeleton independent HDT will load the bones on the fly, how the stuff is done is not known to me, I just know of the possibility to do it )

[b00marrows]

 

I've tried going the .xml only way, but I can tell you from firsthand experience that you will not get what your looking for.

 

Canderes has posted very good videos on how to truly achieve the effect you desire (using 3dsmax and havok kit)

He's even given you some guidelines and a pre-fabbed mesh (albeit for ears).

 

To get the effect you want for the tail WILL require editing in 3dsmax to get the tail to correctly 'flow' and yes, if you want the tails 'flow' to be smooth it will require an edit to the HKX files.

 

As for making your own skeleton, don't over think it. Try testing with existing tail bones and see if you can get it to work at least roughly (make a proof of Concept)

 

As for the extra .xml, yes you can have an extra .xml (I just tested and it seems alrite) although you can probably just merge it into the existing .xmls as they do not touch tails currently (save that for after you get everything else working though).

 

Here's a method for success in modding.

1. Do your research as much as you can, and if you get stuck at any point ask/make a post about it. Modders hate having to point out to people that they answered the questions in their FAQ/readme's/ tutorial vids. You'll just lose respect that way.

2. Break things down into parts, for example you need an HDT rigged mesh, you then need a skeleton that supports it (after testing with current skeleton), after that you may need to work on the .xml.

3. Take your time on each part, and show what you've accomplished so far, Modders like seeing creative projects in the work and will be eager to help out on such projects.

4. Don't try to do it alone, while pro modders can do it all, beginners like you and me just can't or don't have enough skills/money/time to do it all. But if we make a good amount of headway other more experienced modders will always be willing to lend a hand whether in this forum or the plethora of others.

5. Don't be a leecher, If you learn some knowledge, share it and help others while your at it.

 

Sorry if this response is long and may not be exactly what your looking for. It's just that when I see your posts, I see myself around 1 month ago when I just started entering the modding scene by just simply 'writing guides about Outfit Studio' and then it evolved into me making a 'clean HDT weighted body with belly jiggle'. I can't say that I would have gotten to the amount of success/knowledge I have currently without major help from canderes, Groovtama and Vioxsis who all still continue to help me. But I didn't approach them with a simple request, I did my own tests and experiments and asked their help for each specific part of something that I myself couldn't do and thankfully they helped me.

 

TL;DR:

Don't be frustrated these things take time, try to gain as much knowledge and work on the project slowly but steadily. Ask for help when you have a specific question or need help with a specific part.

 

 

thanks for the er... pep talk? haha.

I have never done this sort of things before. When i started this thread it was an idea i was hoping someone would pick up, but no-one did so i did.

 

People have attempted to help me but i lack even the SIMPLEST of knowlage on this stuff. i had never seen a skeleton until last week when i was having issues with SOS and i decided to investigate.

 

 

 

 

Just some additions from me: (I'm not a HDT content creator, I have no knowlegde how stuff is don't just how what works with what)

- For HDT stuff you will probably not need a new/edited skeleton.hkx if that is what blabla means with, HDT goes on the bones directly.

- For skeleton bones,

Default TailBones are Havok controlled stuff, and believe me havok is a bitch if you want to edit/take something from her. And when I say bitch that is far far to nice.^^

The second tailbones with a C at the end (I think they have a C, if it is A or B athe end the following applies also) are bones from a mod called Deadly Mutilation which needs a second skeleton in the skeleton (you can't use them for meshes effective, keyed animation movement will only be given over the normal skeleton bones the DM bones are static, which may cause oddities).

I included a copy of the Tailbones named HDT Tailbones thus they have a different name and not controlled by Havok. Because of Havok doesn't care about them and will not be a bitch if you use them (added them for this problem).

Technically it should be enough if you rename the bone reference in a Tailmesh from TailboneXX to HDT TailboneXX, delete the Havok behaviour information from the file, and attach an xml with the HDT data for the tail only to the tail and profit. (That way the file will need the new tailbones from the skeleton to function, HDT meshes can also have parts of the skeleton included in their nif files, making them skeleton independent HDT will load the bones on the fly, how the stuff is done is not known to me, I just know of the possibility to do it )

I lost it a few times and had to start reading it again, too much information for my tiny brain!

 

I think i got the jist of it:

on tail : edit normal bones, point to new HDT bones that you created. remove basic havoc from tail and add custom .xml

 

Please tell me i got that right atleast?

(should I check your thread for new skeleton?)

[Groovtama]

Yeah that's the essence of the theory^^

Yeah I think the r40+ has the bones.

[b00marrows]

wow great! CRAP ITS 4:17AM!

 

ill get started in the morning, thanks for everything so far everyone!

[Vioxsis]

wow great! CRAP ITS 4:17AM!

Its nice to now that i'm not the only one up at this time.

[b00marrows]

Yeah that's the essence of the theory^^

Yeah I think the r40+ has the bones.

 

OK, I have bone's the bones you spoke of.

i have noticed some vectors diffirences, i hope it is no problem...

Also I'm not sure but I think the vanilla Havoc stuff is called "BGED", it points to a tail\tailproject.hks file. so i will remove it and hope for the best.

 

 

wow great! CRAP ITS 4:17AM!

Its nice to now that i'm not the only one up at this time.

 

sitting up all night watching videos about 3ds max, bone's , mesh weight and reading guides was NOT INTENTIONAL.

[b00marrows]

Uh oh, I broke it.

I was unsure, so I added "children" and this happened

[Uriel]

Well, that's approximately 74 bends less then i've got. And your's are all in one plane.

[b00marrows]

Well, that's approximately 74 bends less then i've got. And your's are all in one plane.

completely intentional I swear...

 

remember kids, Always keep backups!

 

good news!

animations are gone, yay!

 

bad news is there's nothing else happening... investigating!

 

EDIT:

should the HDT file path be:

Data/SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml

OR

SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml

 

or am I completely wrong?

[HydrogensaysHDT]

Just a quick tip

If you want to limit the speed of your ragdoll, use the "Max angular velocity" at the advanced properties of the "Rigid Body" modifier. But dont mess with "Linear velocity", the ragdoll wont be able to keep with the speed of the character (mostly while you sprint) because Linear velocity limits the speed of translation movements. While angular velocity just deals with the forces caused by rotations.

Also, you could use "linear damping" and "angular damping" that will tell the rigid body how fast it should set into resting position in the lapse of a second ranging from 0 to 1.

1 will be too much and your ragdoll will be quite static so try lower values.

 

One last thing, if you use multiple bones for the tail (I mean, more than 1 debris) remember that the limitations that I mentioned above will affect the rest of the chain, so the bigger values should go at the end (only if you want a slow and smooth motion).

 

Max angular velocity doesn't deal with forces. Inertia tensor does(Higher->angular velocity change slower).

For cloth, I suggest you simply multiply them by a value over 10. You can do this at Rigid body modifier->C.O.M. & Inertia Tensor->Scale Inertia Tensor.

[Uriel]

should the HDT file path be:

Data/SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml

OR

SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml

 

or am I completely wrong?

Path starts from "Data\" and forward.

 

Wrong character in your "Data/SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml", should be "\" everywhere.

[b00marrows]

 

Path starts from "Data\" and forward.

 

Wrong character in your "Data/SKSE\Plugins\HDTTail.xml", should be "\" everywhere.

 

I was all hopeful and went to check the directory only to find it was a mis-type on here but is fine on the tail... thanks for the help!

 

 

 

I'm not sure what the problem is, but I think its the xml file (as it is custom and i have no clue what im doing.)

 

I'm trying to find information on how to make the xml files but nothing i have found so far is deep enough in detail to explain what/how i need to do this.

 

All of the .xml stuff is guess work so far (i used just for fun)

from other .xml files i think i need to set a "motion_feyframed" first than the tail after?

is the information linked by a rigidbody name to a bone name?

would a motion_thin_box_inertia work for the tail?

could someone explain "constraints" to me?

[blabba]

For some .xml stuff here's what I discovered when messing around and trying to add belly jiggle.

 

1. The motion keyframed object will refer to a bone/rigid body that keeps it's position throughout animation, I'll explain why in the constraints

2. I've tried other motion objects, but for my own tests I never found them to be useful (most parts of the body are related to spheres) so maybe a more knowledgeable person can answer that.

3. Most important, the 'constraints' this is where the magic happens. Basically for your constraints you'll need to tie your motion object to a keyframe object to keep it 'anchored' so that the tail does not stretch to infinity and other related bugs. The keyframe objects keep the motion objects 'anchored' via constraints that tell the motion object how far it can move away from the anchor.

 

Just for lolz to see a pseudo swinging tail with many bugs, you can try tying your tail to the butt bones and you should see a 'jiggle' tail xD

[b00marrows]

 

For some .xml stuff here's what I discovered when messing around and trying to add belly jiggle.

 

1. The motion keyframed object will refer to a bone/rigid body that keeps it's position throughout animation, I'll explain why in the constraints

2. I've tried other motion objects, but for my own tests I never found them to be useful (most parts of the body are related to spheres) so maybe a more knowledgeable person can answer that.

3. Most important, the 'constraints' this is where the magic happens. Basically for your constraints you'll need to tie your motion object to a keyframe object to keep it 'anchored' so that the tail does not stretch to infinity and other related bugs. The keyframe objects keep the motion objects 'anchored' via constraints that tell the motion object how far it can move away from the anchor.

 

Just for lolz to see a pseudo swinging tail with many bugs, you can try tying your tail to the butt bones and you should see a 'jiggle' tail xD

thanks, that might be fun to do if i ever get it working...

 

OK, i have still had no success.

 

I stuck a keyframe onto the spine and constrained it to the tailbone. I'm not sure if I needed to put all tail bones into HDT so I did anyway. the tail is still solid as it was when I removed animations. but I'm not sure if its the tail or .xml.

 

dose anyone know a way to tell?

[Uriel]

hdtPE log should say if your .xml is being used at all.

[b00marrows]

where would I find this file? i had a look around but found nothing

 

EDIT: ah wait is it hdtPhysicsExtensions.log? in the skse plugin folder?

 

EDIT2:

OK if this is the file than im even more confused.

 

 

hdtPhysicsExtensions

[02/02/14 16:22:19]INFO: Queue OK

[02/02/14 16:22:19]INFO: System run with 8 threads

[02/02/14 16:22:19]INFO: Havok simulated world created.

[02/02/14 16:22:19]INFO: SKSEPlugin_Load

[02/02/14 16:22:24]INFO: Suspending ... Mist Menu

[02/02/14 16:22:35]INFO: Resuming... Fader Menu

[02/02/14 16:22:35]INFO: Suspending ... Loading Menu

[02/02/14 16:22:41]INFO: Resuming... Fader Menu

[02/02/14 16:22:41]INFO: Cell changed...

[02/02/14 16:22:41]INFO: Add character 00000014

[02/02/14 16:22:51]INFO: Suspending ... TweenMenu

[02/02/14 16:22:56]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:22:56]INFO: Cell changed...

[02/02/14 16:22:56]INFO: Add character 00000014

[02/02/14 16:22:57]INFO: Suspending ... Console

[02/02/14 16:24:31]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:31]INFO: Suspending ... TweenMenu

[02/02/14 16:24:35]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:35]INFO: Cell changed...

[02/02/14 16:24:35]INFO: Add character 00000014

[02/02/14 16:24:36]INFO: Suspending ... TweenMenu

[02/02/14 16:24:37]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:37]INFO: Cell changed...

[02/02/14 16:24:37]INFO: Add character 00000014

[02/02/14 16:24:39]INFO: Suspending ... Console

[02/02/14 16:24:40]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:40]INFO: Suspending ... Journal Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:45]INFO: Resuming... Cursor Menu

[02/02/14 16:24:46]INFO: Suspending ... Journal Menu

no loading of EITHER xml AND no errors.

[Uriel]

.... Maybe make tail equippable? So you will be able to equip it ingame. Then xml loading should register in logs, and it should allow for multiple tests without leaving skyrim.

Can you share your tests? Maybe i'll have more luck with it.

[b00marrows]

the tail is equipable, im using a mod called mystic tails. ill post links later as im off to work.

 

im not trusting this log as my body's hdt is working but the log says nothing about it.

[Uriel]

The "regular" usage of hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml is not being logged, but when i equip an item with .xml attached, i get this:

[02/03/14 14:25:43]INFO: Add character 00000014
[02/03/14 14:26:04]INFO: Physics system loaded : DATA\MESHES\export.xml

That's from the test skirt.

[b00marrows]

OK, I'm back from work and raring to go!

 

The "regular" usage of hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml is not being logged, but when i equip an item with .xml attached, i get this:

[02/03/14 14:25:43]INFO: Add character 00000014
[02/03/14 14:26:04]INFO: Physics system loaded : DATA\MESHES\export.xml

That's from the test skirt.

 

So regular body .xml is not shown in the log? so that means my tail is not loading the .XML (or still that im a complete idiot and have missed something)

 

Here is my current files, packaged as a folder setup in a .7zip.

 

 

 

femaletailkhajiit.nif

and

HDTTail.xml included.

 

(you will need mystic tails installed MANUALLY, without the skeleton)

 

EDIT: i had a look at SOS and found a things called "consistency flags"the tail is set to "CT_STATIC" while SOS is set to "CT_MUTABLE", woudl this change anything?

[Uriel]

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

 

Ok, first of all, the NiStringExtraData must be named "HDT Havok Path", not the "HDT Havoc Path".

Secondly, mystic tail's .esp is badly made, so tails show up only for khajiits. At least for the tail i used - Khajiit Tail Grey. So i remade an esp a little.

Third - xml loads now, but the tail stands straight up, like a prolonged and visualised spine(probably) bone.

All the things i've dealed with were flagged as CS_STATIC, and test skirt mesh is static too. So i doubt it's a problem.