Tails/Ears with physics inertia

Microlich · July 26, 2014

Good idea.

I never tried negative weights.

I don't have much news yet myself, but apparently motors are virtually essential;

it's just hard to figure out how they should be configured exactly; but they seem to be the most convenient way of having a constraint that returns to its default position.

I was working on a few other things because I needed a distraction, but I'll probably get back to the physics soon.

#Edit: After digigng through the HDT source code then some more source code and then more source code I found via Google I can quote

hkpPositionConstraintMotor.h

		/// The relative stiffness between 0 and 1.
	hkReal m_tau;

		/// The relative damping between 0 and 1.
	hkReal m_damping;

		/// A factor of the current error to calculate the recovery velocity.
	hkReal m_proportionalRecoveryVelocity;

		/// A constant velocity which is used to recover from errors.
	hkReal m_constantRecoveryVelocity;

hkpVelocityConstraintMotor

		/// The stiffness between 0 and 1.
	hkReal m_tau;

		/// Velocity target. 
	hkReal m_velocityTarget;
			
		/// Tells the motor to ignore the stored velocity target. 
		/// When set to true, the motor calculates the requested velocity from the target orientations
		/// supplied by the constraint owning the motor.
	hkBool m_useVelocityTargetFromConstraintTargets;

hkpSpringDamperConstraintMotor

		/// The spring constant in N/m.
	hkReal m_springConstant;

		/// The spring damping in Nsec/m.
	hkReal m_springDamping;

That gives some hints; but still no data on the actual functioning.

Maybe I have to read up how 'velocity' is defined instead.

b00marrows · July 26, 2014

I don't have much news yet myself, but apparently motors are virtually essential;

it's just hard to figure out how they should be configured exactly; but they seem to be the most convenient way of having a constraint that returns to its default position.

That hits me quite hard as i could never get them to take ANY effect, all of my work was done without them. no matter what numbers i used they never did anything useful.

How about you check some other mods, look at some things like capes or hair to see what sort of numbers they use and the effects of those numbers?

Maybe it will give some insight on linked constraints?

Microlich · July 26, 2014

I don't have much news yet myself, but apparently motors are virtually essential;

it's just hard to figure out how they should be configured exactly; but they seem to be the most convenient way of having a constraint that returns to its default position.

That hits me quite hard as i could never get them to take ANY effect, all of my work was done without them. no matter what numbers i used they never did anything useful.

How about you check some other mods, look at some things like capes or hair to see what sort of numbers they use and the effects of those numbers?

Maybe it will give some insight on linked constraints?

Really only bothering with ragdolls at the moment, but the other constraints are bound to be similar.

I understand fairly well how they work by now (like, 90%)... except for the motors; but with the info above I should figure that out as well within a few days.

jacques00 · July 26, 2014

Really only bothering with ragdolls at the moment, but the other constraints are bound to be similar.

I understand fairly well how they work by now (like, 90%)... except for the motors; but with the info above I should figure that out as well within a few days.

The constraint motors are a way to control the "drive" of a constraint (joint). I don't exactly know the math behind it, since I just play with the numbers and see what looks aesthetically right for the most part. It is not essential to have a motor since that is just another layer of movement control, but I usually have better results with them on than not, so I tend to use them religiously until I can sort out the actual science behind it and have a better understanding so I can use them more efficiently.

b00marrows · July 27, 2014

quick peek at what i have been...doing:

Deadly Kitten · July 27, 2014

quick peek at what i have been...doing:

tacky.png

.... Kitsune tails? Pretty ))

b00marrows · July 27, 2014

.... Kitsune tails? Pretty ))

Yeah i found it a while back, i think i posted about it in this thread... dont remember.

I literally just imported the .nif into 3dsmax2013 and started playing around, i dont know anything about the programs....

I just finished separating all the tails, they where combined into a single object. numbered them 1-9 and am now going to try rounding/inflating them.

As you can see they are kinda "flat":

Microlich · July 28, 2014

quick peek at what i have been...doing:

tacky.png

Heheh.

I'm gonna hope you don't want to rig them all individually and collide?

(Although that might just work with penetration depth for soft collisions)

I will have to do something like that soon to test the motors. :shy:

b00marrows · July 28, 2014

Heheh.

I'm gonna hope you don't want to rig them all individually and collide?

(Although that might just work with penetration depth for soft collisions)

I will have to do something like that soon to test the motors.

I was going to do that yes, but after seperating them they looked off. flattened and slightly deformed....

I attempted to round them out and straighten them up but ended up with more mess than before so i dropped it.

I'm not sure what i'm going to do next... maybe look into rigging the 16 and 20 boned tails...

Deadly Kitten · July 29, 2014

Yeah i found it a while back, i think i posted about it in this thread... dont remember.

I literally just imported the .nif into 3dsmax2013 and started playing around, i dont know anything about the programs....

I just finished separating all the tails, they where combined into a single object. numbered them 1-9 and am now going to try rounding/inflating them.

As you can see they are kinda "flat":Flat.png

Little flat, but still nice. Can't wait to see what you do with this!

Shade115 · July 29, 2014

Heheh.

I'm gonna hope you don't want to rig them all individually and collide?

(Although that might just work with penetration depth for soft collisions)

I will have to do something like that soon to test the motors.

I was going to do that yes, but after seperating them they looked off. flattened and slightly deformed....

I attempted to round them out and straighten them up but ended up with more mess than before so i dropped it.

I'm not sure what i'm going to do next... maybe look into rigging the 16 and 20 boned tails...

Yeah about a year ago I looked at the Kitsune as well and the only thing I personally disliked was the flatness of the tails.

b00marrows · July 29, 2014

If i go go back to trying to do a 9 tails i will not use that one.

ill probably find a nice fox tail and just duplicate it, shoulder be too hard.

The real question is, how would it work with HDT?

Could I have 1 "main" tail and link the others to it? would this allow for the use of the normal HDT tail XML??

I can dream right?

But before I do that im thinking of try making the 18 bone tail, see how that goes. than maybe an extended 20 bone one too.

b00marrows · July 29, 2014

Actually, i just had an idea.

I/we have been trying to link the tail bones together. 1 by 1 like a chain....

What about linking all bones to the HDTTail bone?

So instead of:

HDTtail to bone 1

bone 1 to bone 2

bone 2 to bone 3

bone 3 to bone 4

bone 4 to bone 5

tail to bone 1

tail to bone 2

tail to bone 3

tail to bone 4

tail to bone 5

With the correct numbers... i'm going to try it out.... mess around a bit with it.

*SirNibbles* · August 9, 2014

If ur still looking for a nice fox tail I could recommend u the tail from the inari race from oblivion.nexusmods.com

I've been trying to import it to skyrim but I couldn't get further after trying to edit it in nifskope >_>

Couldn't find any tutorial either about tails either for skyrim.

If this tail could be used for HDT it would be even more awesome

Well it's just a suggestion though.

Good luck further if ur still working on this :3

Yoo · August 9, 2014

mmm, That makes me think about a tail with an array of ~~hinge~~ limited hinge constraints to create a fluffy tail. All of them tied by a previous rigid body using a fixed constraint parented to the tail bones.

Something like this:

Of course I would use a taper value for the tail capsules to get the right angle on the tail.

NVM about the fixed constraints, it would be better with a couple of limited hinges. Then using a cylinder with a FFD (Cyl) to get a nice skinwrap helper to do the rigging in a couple minutes.

--- Just my two cents ---

27X · August 10, 2014

mmm, That makes me think about a tail with an array of ~~hinge~~ limited hinge constraints to create a fluffy tail. All of them tied by a previous rigid body using a fixed constraint parented to the tail bones.

Something like this:

Of course I would use a taper value for the tail capsules to get the right angle on the tail.

NVM about the fixed constraints, it would be better with a couple of limited hinges. Then using a cylinder with a FFD (Cyl) to get a nice skinwrap helper to do the rigging in a couple minutes.

--- Just my two cents ---

Works with source stuff, should work with Skyrim

xTrogdorx · December 30, 2014

When I installed v4 it caused my khajiit's tail to be an erect pole.

So I switched to http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/55848/? and it works, but it has some issues with the tail spazzing out and tearing time and space. Also, even when its behaving normally, the base of it seems shifted off to the left of where it should be on my khajiit's butt.

So is this better in either of those regards? If so, how do I get it to work? I'm using CBBE HDT bodyslide.

Deadly Kitten · December 31, 2014

When I installed v4 it caused my khajiit's tail to be an erect pole.

So I switched to http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/55848/? and it works, but it has some issues with the tail spazzing out and tearing time and space. Also, even when its behaving normally, the base of it seems shifted off to the left of where it should be on my khajiit's butt.

So is this better in either of those regards? If so, how do I get it to work? I'm using CBBE HDT bodyslide.

IMO, the nexus one works better. If the tail spazzes out, I usually can just save and reload to fix it. If that doesn't help, I don't know what to say.

xTrogdorx · December 31, 2014

When I installed v4 it caused my khajiit's tail to be an erect pole.

So I switched to http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/55848/? and it works, but it has some issues with the tail spazzing out and tearing time and space. Also, even when its behaving normally, the base of it seems shifted off to the left of where it should be on my khajiit's butt.

So is this better in either of those regards? If so, how do I get it to work? I'm using CBBE HDT bodyslide.

IMO, the nexus one works better. If the tail spazzes out, I usually can just save and reload to fix it. If that doesn't help, I don't know what to say.

The tail does settle down after a few seconds, but whenever I'm riding a horse or basically doing anything that involves a lot of movement, the tail goes ballistic. Once I stop moving, it goes back to normal.

Miarc007 · May 1, 2015

Any more progress on this?

I really like this thread as it's giving me ideas, I've been looking for a good kitsune mod. Hard to find one to my tastes. This thread might have one of the solutions I'm looking for.

Deadly Kitten · May 1, 2015

Any more progress on this?

I really like this thread as it's giving me ideas, I've been looking for a good kitsune mod. Hard to find one to my tastes. This thread might have one of the solutions I'm looking for.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58165/?

this has some good kitsune tails. I highly dislike the colors on them though. Too realistic I guess. And it all is HDT weighted.

unwashed biomass · June 16, 2015

Hi. Need some help. The tail is acting very weird, tip of it stays in place when i move and dissorts. I've followed all instuctions from guide thread (have extended skeleton, body, made changes in skyrim.ini). Don't know whats the problem.

neverend22 · September 13, 2020

Helle xD where we can downloud argonian htd talon ( last version?) ? xD

ELVAUL · December 29, 2023

Al final que paso con el projecto, descarge un archivo para Skyrim le y no he visto cambio alguno o es algo que me perdi

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Tails/Ears with physics inertia

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