Tails/Ears with physics inertia

[esmm40]

Will this have any effect on the tail provided in the Succubus race mod? As far as i can tell there are no specific skeletons used for that race other then the default files and file locations. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/22903/?

[b00marrows]

Will this have any effect on the tail provided in the Succubus race mod? As far as i can tell there are no specific skeletons used for that race other then the default files and file locations. http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/22903/?

 

No. it would require some work...

 

Depending on how the tail is... it could be easy, it could be impossible.... ill take a look into it sooner or later as I am a fan of the mod.

[Yanazake]

Lemme get this right: You removed animations from the tails and added just the physics? Now they're supposedly limp instead of actually moving? This reminds me of the Elin.

 

Unless it's a horse-like tail [just long fur] or some kind of accessory, the tails should really move. HDT still uses body animations to improve the physics, but it doesn't work for the tail animations?

I'd love to try this for the ears, but if it comes at the cost of removing tail animation, i'd rather not. Removing the tail animation from horseriding and making it collide with the horse would be perfect, tho - the characters would be using it way less for balancing if riding a horse, as compared to walking by themselves.

[b00marrows]

Lemme get this right: You removed animations from the tails and added just the physics? Now they're supposedly limp instead of actually moving? This reminds me of the Elin.

 

Unless it's a horse-like tail [just long fur] or some kind of accessory, the tails should really move. HDT still uses body animations to improve the physics, but it doesn't work for the tail animations?

I'd love to try this for the ears, but if it comes at the cost of removing tail animation, i'd rather not. Removing the tail animation from horseriding and making it collide with the horse would be perfect, tho - the characters would be using it way less for balancing if riding a horse, as compared to walking by themselves.

 

if you could call the pathetic attempt on the tails by bathesda an "animation" than don't bother with my mod, you clearly like what you have.

 

the main reason for adding physics is for the tail to react to your movements,  running turning twisting around it would always look like a stick stuck up your butt.

 

with it having physics it can curl around you if you turn too fast

if you run and stop the movement will continue a little and it will hit you in the back

if you jump it would be delayed a little and have a wave like motion

it would collide with other people you are standing near

it would lay on the ground when you crouch

and if some people get ahead with some of the ideas on this forum you will be able to grab and move the tail ...

 

but for now this is all a dream, something I want but clearly do not have the skills or resources to do.

 

But i will try.

[Yanazake]

if you could call the pathetic attempt on the tails by bathesda an "animation" than don't bother with my mod, you clearly like what you have.

 

the main reason for adding physics is for the tail to react to your movements,  running turning twisting around it would always look like a stick stuck up your butt.

 

with it having physics it can curl around you if you turn too fast

if you run and stop the movement will continue a little and it will hit you in the back

if you jump it would be delayed a little and have a wave like motion

it would collide with other people you are standing near

it would lay on the ground when you crouch

and if some people get ahead with some of the ideas on this forum you will be able to grab and move the tail ...

 

but for now this is all a dream, something I want but clearly do not have the skills or resources to do.

 

But i will try.

 

That is exactly what i'm talking about - it moves like an accessory, not like part of something alive. When khajiits crouch or sit on the floor, the tail curls around them because they can control it. I'm sure bethesda animations are bad, but removing them for a full limp tail isn't a fix for the issue. Some people like the result, i think using the vanilla animations [or new animations if anyone ever made those] with HDT, just like T/BBP animations work with HDT would be the best option. But from what i've read in the topic, some issue arose from that.

 

Again, i'm not saying it's a bad mod, it just really isn't what i was expecting. Seeing Antho art everywhere and looking at real animals as reference just tells me that without animations, it'd be just a rope [unless it's a horse tail]. Still tracking for ear floppyness, tho.

[b00marrows]

That is exactly what i'm talking about - it moves like an accessory, not like part of something alive. When khajiits crouch or sit on the floor, the tail curls around them because they can control it. I'm sure bethesda animations are bad, but removing them for a full limp tail isn't a fix for the issue. Some people like the result, i think using the vanilla animations [or new animations if anyone ever made those] with HDT, just like T/BBP animations work with HDT would be the best option. But from what i've read in the topic, some issue arose from that.

 

 

 

Again, i'm not saying it's a bad mod, it just really isn't what i was expecting. Seeing Antho art everywhere and looking at real animals as reference just tells me that without animations, it'd be just a rope [unless it's a horse tail]. Still tracking for ear floppyness, tho.

 

 

Oh,  nonono.

 

This is NOWHERE NEAR FINISHED, at the moment its just a mock up to test the movement and physics. I will probably go back and test with Bethesda's animations but probably not (there kinda bad...) 

 

i wanted to see what it would be like for the tail to actually react with movement and this is what i got, for me it was one huge:

"HEY LOOK IT WORKS"

Followed with a:

"NOW ACTUALLY DO THE WORK NEEDED" ... which is where i got stuck....

 

First I want to add collision so it collides with floor bodies/people and well everything if i can...

Than i plan to change the gravity of the object for it to "float" a bit as not to drop like a rope...

Than I plan to change how much/far it can move and twist....

Than add some elasticity to the joints for movement and it should look good...

 

but all of this requires knowledge i don't have and with no good way to test collision and joints it's not looking good.

 

 

 

I'm aiming for a "object" or an actually piece of a body, rather than some ghostly stick sticking out of your butt.

[astor]

 

That is exactly what i'm talking about - it moves like an accessory, not like part of something alive. When khajiits crouch or sit on the floor, the tail curls around them because they can control it. I'm sure bethesda animations are bad, but removing them for a full limp tail isn't a fix for the issue. Some people like the result, i think using the vanilla animations [or new animations if anyone ever made those] with HDT, just like T/BBP animations work with HDT would be the best option. But from what i've read in the topic, some issue arose from that.

 

 

 

Again, i'm not saying it's a bad mod, it just really isn't what i was expecting. Seeing Antho art everywhere and looking at real animals as reference just tells me that without animations, it'd be just a rope [unless it's a horse tail]. Still tracking for ear floppyness, tho.

 

 

Oh,  nonono.

 

This is NOWHERE NEAR FINISHED, at the moment its just a mock up to test the movement and physics. I will probably go back and test with Bethesda's animations but probably not (there kinda bad...) 

 

i wanted to see what it would be like for the tail to actually react with movement and this is what i got, for me it was one huge:

"HEY LOOK IT WORKS"

Followed with a:

"NOW ACTUALLY DO THE WORK NEEDED" ... which is where i got stuck....

 

First I want to add collision so it collides with floor bodies/people and well everything if i can...

Than i plan to change the gravity of the object for it to "float" a bit as not to drop like a rope...

Than I plan to change how much/far it can move and twist....

Than add some elasticity to the joints for movement and it should look good...

 

but all of this requires knowledge i don't have and with no good way to test collision and joints it's not looking good.

 

 

 

I'm aiming for a "object" or an actually piece of a body, rather than some ghostly stick sticking out of your butt.

 

i don't know about animations and skeletons, but does the commonly used xp32 extended skeleton http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25971-xp32-maximum-skeleton-extended/ have tail bones that can be used and/or pointed at with your mod?

[b00marrows]

i don't know about animations and skeletons, but does the commonly used xp32 extended skeleton http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25971-xp32-maximum-skeleton-extended/ have tail bones that can be used and/or pointed at with your mod?

 

i looked back at your last post andnoticed you edited it after i replied to it...

 

yes my mod uses bones, and yes it uses bones form that skeleton.

I did warn you about custom races.... i guess you ignored that....

 

Custom races are built so they have a seperate folder for everything (rather the intelligently using the correct path of base sksletons... too simple i guess...)

 

so simply you need to put the skeleton and tail in with the custom race's folder.

[astor]

 

i don't know about animations and skeletons, but does the commonly used xp32 extended skeleton http://www.loverslab.com/topic/25971-xp32-maximum-skeleton-extended/ have tail bones that can be used and/or pointed at with your mod?

 

i looked back at your last post andnoticed you edited it after i replied to it...

 

yes my mod uses bones, and yes it uses bones form that skeleton.

I did warn you about custom races.... i guess you ignored that....

 

Custom races are built so they have a seperate folder for everything (rather the intelligently using the correct path of base sksletons... too simple i guess...)

 

so simply you need to put the skeleton and tail in with the custom race's folder.

 

since downloading Eiries Ohmes-Raht race, i've replaced the textures with those from the Mature textures mod (i couldn't change the fur color and the default was too dark for my tastes) and pointed the CK to the default khajiit to keep the tail from looking weird with the Mature textures stretched across it.  The result is a human looking female with permanent khajiit ears and tail.  I took Groovetama's extended skeleton and dropped it into the custom race folder and have been enjoying the benefits of that for a while now.

 

I then discovered your mod.  I dropped your femaletailkhajiit.nif into the custom race folder where the default .nif files were already installed to no effect.  I understand what you said about custom races.  What i was trying to say was that on the vanilla races, it's either a dangling noodle effect, or a stretching ribbon several feet long when the npc moves around (when i use the wrong HDT version like an idiot).

 

I was trying to suggest that perhaps you might adjust your file to make use of the bones in the above mentioned skeleton (if they were available), since it appears that your current version of the tail has no bones at all.  I'm not a modder, i have no idea about how this mod works, i was merely trying to provide feedback and perhaps give you another way to look at the issue.

[b00marrows]

since downloading Eiries Ohmes-Raht race, i've replaced the textures with those from the Mature textures mod (i couldn't change the fur color and the default was too dark for my tastes) and pointed the CK to the default khajiit to keep the tail from looking weird with the Mature textures stretched across it.  The result is a human looking female with permanent khajiit ears and tail.  I took Groovetama's extended skeleton and dropped it into the custom race folder and have been enjoying the benefits of that for a while now.

 

 

 

 

 

I then discovered your mod.  I dropped your femaletailkhajiit.nif into the custom race folder where the default .nif files were already installed to no effect.  I understand what you said about custom races.  What i was trying to say was that on the vanilla races, it's either a dangling noodle effect, or a stretching ribbon several feet long when the npc moves around (when i use the wrong HDT version like an idiot).

 

I was trying to suggest that perhaps you might adjust your file to make use of the bones in the above mentioned skeleton (if they were available), since it appears that your current version of the tail has no bones at all.  I'm not a modder, i have no idea about how this mod works, i was merely trying to provide feedback and perhaps give you another way to look at the issue.

 

 

see, a lengthy post is a much better one!

 

Yes i now understand what your new problem is, the "noddle" or rope effect is cause due to this mod being unfinished... well not even started. this at its current stats is more of a proof of concept, I added physics so something and now look at it move when i do!

 

i have plans but with my current understanding and limit on tools its not really possible, I think I'm going to wait for the plugin (HDTPE) and JFF to update some more to continue.

[astor]

 

since downloading Eiries Ohmes-Raht race, i've replaced the textures with those from the Mature textures mod (i couldn't change the fur color and the default was too dark for my tastes) and pointed the CK to the default khajiit to keep the tail from looking weird with the Mature textures stretched across it.  The result is a human looking female with permanent khajiit ears and tail.  I took Groovetama's extended skeleton and dropped it into the custom race folder and have been enjoying the benefits of that for a while now.

 

 

 

 

 

I then discovered your mod.  I dropped your femaletailkhajiit.nif into the custom race folder where the default .nif files were already installed to no effect.  I understand what you said about custom races.  What i was trying to say was that on the vanilla races, it's either a dangling noodle effect, or a stretching ribbon several feet long when the npc moves around (when i use the wrong HDT version like an idiot).

 

I was trying to suggest that perhaps you might adjust your file to make use of the bones in the above mentioned skeleton (if they were available), since it appears that your current version of the tail has no bones at all.  I'm not a modder, i have no idea about how this mod works, i was merely trying to provide feedback and perhaps give you another way to look at the issue.

 

 

see, a lengthy post is a much better one!

 

Yes i now understand what your new problem is, the "noddle" or rope effect is cause due to this mod being unfinished... well not even started. this at its current stats is more of a proof of concept, I added physics so something and now look at it move when i do!

 

i have plans but with my current understanding and limit on tools its not really possible, I think I'm going to wait for the plugin (HDTPE) and JFF to update some more to continue.

 

 

While i'm happy to hear that you're going to continue to work on this, i'm yet saddened to hear that i'll have to wait.    

 

This is one of those mods that i didn't realize was missing from the game until i found it. 

[blabba]

 

Than i plan to change the gravity of the object for it to "float" a bit as not to drop like a rope...

 

Not to be a buzzkill, but HDT won't allow you to set gravity changes, unless you recompile the DLL with your own desired gravity value.

 

But other than that, everything you ask for is pretty much doab;e with enough greasework in 3dsMax

 

[b00marrows]

 

 

 

Not to be a buzzkill, but HDT won't allow you to set gravity changes, unless you recompile the DLL with your own desired gravity value.

 

But other than that, everything you ask for is pretty much doab;e with enough greasework in 3dsMax

 

 

 

i fucking knew something else would come up and kick me in the nuts... BUT i had a backup plan, hopefullt constraint motors/elasticity will be able to give it some of the "movement" i hope for.

 

But maybe this will chage in the future.. i can only hope.

[Yanazake]

Hm, i see now you are trying to do things one step at a time - i probably didn't realize this, which is why it got me partially angry.

 

On the other hand, i'm not sure how much this might be interesting for anyone here... But what about this? The tails currently, like i kept spaming before, have no animation, just physics which is being worked on, yes? Well, BEFORE any animation is added [eventually] and they just flap around behind you, here's what'd be an interesting implementation:

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ctmdJ2Nk1qkle06o5_1280.jpg

http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/48287/1366647151m_SPLASH.jpg

 

Yes, the Lost Boys from Peter Pan with the animal costumes. Why, seriously, WHY wouldn't a parent with enough skill to hunt and not enough money to buy new clothes wouldn't make some cold-resistant gear for their kids with pelts, AND keeping them fun? I think those are called "onesies" or something like that, even with adult sizes nowadays. Why not some hoods or onesies made with rabbit, fox, wolf, bear pelts and maybe even more from resources, and obviously, the ears and tails with the floppy physics.

 

Right, i prefer to think on the implementations new modding tools can have OTHER than make boobs and butts and schlongs sway. Crucify me. :c [same goes for the High Heels system, but it's always "just for females". Why can't i have, say, male pirates from high rock with heel boots, coats and long hairs with physics?]

 

Anyway, this is obviously just an idea and i'm not asking anyone to do it. I'm already busy myself working my eyes off [yeah, bad eyesight] to get my own custom mods working and eventually released or at least playable. I'd love to give this a try myself, but first i'd have to be able to make armors, and then first comes implementing heels to skyrim footwear with that system, if possible at all.

[b00marrows]

Hm, i see now you are trying to do things one step at a time - i probably didn't realize this, which is why it got me partially angry.

 

On the other hand, i'm not sure how much this might be interesting for anyone here... But what about this? The tails currently, like i kept spaming before, have no animation, just physics which is being worked on, yes? Well, BEFORE any animation is added [eventually] and they just flap around behind you, here's what'd be an interesting implementation:

 

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2ctmdJ2Nk1qkle06o5_1280.jpg

http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/48287/1366647151m_SPLASH.jpg

 

Yes, the Lost Boys from Peter Pan with the animal costumes. Why, seriously, WHY wouldn't a parent with enough skill to hunt and not enough money to buy new clothes wouldn't make some cold-resistant gear for their kids with pelts, AND keeping them fun? I think those are called "onesies" or something like that, even with adult sizes nowadays. Why not some hoods or onesies made with rabbit, fox, wolf, bear pelts and maybe even more from resources, and obviously, the ears and tails with the floppy physics.

 

Right, i prefer to think on the implementations new modding tools can have OTHER than make boobs and butts and schlongs sway. Crucify me. :c [same goes for the High Heels system, but it's always "just for females". Why can't i have, say, male pirates from high rock with heel boots, coats and long hairs with physics?]

 

Anyway, this is obviously just an idea and i'm not asking anyone to do it. I'm already busy myself working my eyes off [yeah, bad eyesight] to get my own custom mods working and eventually released or at least playable. I'd love to give this a try myself, but first i'd have to be able to make armors, and then first comes implementing heels to skyrim footwear with that system, if possible at all.

 

You have gone too far off the tracks. next time check where the thread is before you blast like you did. (its not in the release section for a DAMN GOOD reason, im not even sure if i ever will finish it.)

 

On the otherhand i just found this mod I ... er ... "squeed" a little, and instantly restarted installing skyrim. i gota see this thing in action and mayeb play around with it (the tail) and have a look at the ears... later...

[b00marrows]

Hmm....

(peple who understand the picture will understand why im posting it)

 

I'm not sure whether to be depressed that it's not 9 separate tails    OR happy that i still want to add hdt to see how it moves about...

[blabba]

He probably grouped the branches together in Blender/3dsMax before export.

 

You could easily separate them in a 3d modelling software if you want.

[b00marrows]

He probably grouped the branches together in Blender/3dsMax before export.

 

You could easily separate them in a 3d modelling software if you want.

 

Erm... nah , i dont know how that would function with bones... i er... could you? if you could throw one together (model and skeleton) ... no that's asking too much.

 

ill just check it out in game, add my current tail info to it and see how it goes... it could look nice.

[b00marrows]

Ok its official im hooked again, i ust spend over an houre attempting to fix my tails xml file... what did they do to HDT as of version 14? did they change the math of everynthing?

 

1.0 time scale is behind but EVERY number over 1 causes EXTREAM SPAZMZ, im talking wall to wall tail flicking.

 

Im not 100% sure if it is the time scale....

 

 

 

 

EDIT: ok i did my useual "well if that one is working ill take a look at how/why it is" and was surprised... it didn't help...

This is a comparrision of the xml that comes with the 14 release and the hdk skeleton.

 

As you can see the breast bone setting do not match, why is that?

[Trystanwolf]

I still use 10-24 and I noticed that some offset is needed to get the breast to line up in the right place. My settings are y: 0.7 Z: 1.6. If you look at the pic closely, you can see a little clipping on the left tassle. The right tassle is at .7, 1.6 and the left is at 0 0. In max, its lined up perfectly with the nipples. It lines up perfect without HDT as well. It drove me crazy because I thought I screwed something up, then thought it was a problem with 3ds max exporting it. 

 

  I looked at the tails in 3ds max. It looks like it was a single model that was cloned multiple times then grouped together. They all use the tail bone and weighted all together. Separating them may be possible but it will be tedious. There's meshes that aren't completely attached to the tail so you can't just move them and be done. Someone will have to figure out which mesh belongs to what.

 

 Edit: To be clearer, all 9 tails are weighted to the 5 tail bones together. To make them individual, they would each need their own bones to weight to. With the way the meshes are set up, each tail has several smaller meshes mixed in with it. Some of the smaller ones are connectedby 1 vertex or not at all so just clicking and moving a tail isn't possible. 

[Yanazake]

 

 

You have gone too far off the tracks. next time check where the thread is before you blast like you did. (its not in the release section for a DAMN GOOD reason, im not even sure if i ever will finish it.)

 

On the otherhand i just found this mod I ... er ... "squeed" a little, and instantly restarted installing skyrim. i gota see this thing in action and mayeb play around with it (the tail) and have a look at the ears... later...

 

Did i say i'm slow to get info sometimes? Sorry, i'm slow to get info sometimes. :c

Anyway, i'm tracking and waiting for progress.

[b00marrows]

 

 

Ok, it seems everything has hit a wall.

 

No matter what i do HDT 14 will not work for me.

 

I have removed all possible movement from my xml and the tail still manages to built up movement on its own until it beguines to spaz infinitly. ill probably give it a few more tries but im all out of hope, NOTHING IS WORKING.

 

Figured out the issue. for some reason a bone i was using was removed in an update of the skeleton. FIXED.

[b00marrows]

 

 

DAMNIT, i think i found out the problem.

Turns out it was the constraints.

I had the whole tail set as ragdoll constraints and update 14 doesn't like that.... how i was ment to know this iw ill never know

The first constraint (keyframe -> 1st bone) was fine so i left it as a "hkpragdollconstraint", ad chaged all the others to "hkpgenericconstraints".

This has led to the tail now being solid, this is intentional as i removed all movement.

I played skyrim for a whole houre waiting for it to spaz about trying to kill me and never saw it move!

Thanks god... now i can get back to trying to make it move in a believable fashion... I still doubt that will be possible tho.

 

WRONG.

 

anyone know anything about these "motors"? i have never got one to work... what are they even meant to do???

[Amiiboae]

How come I crash when using 10.24 up to v14? Just crashes as soon as i see or choose female khajiit.

[b00marrows]

How come I crash when using 10.24 up to v14? Just crashes as soon as i see or choose female khajiit.

 

This is not usable on v14 yet. I can imagine it causing some issues on some computers as the tail spazzes around and collides with things.

 

thought I figured out the issue but i dident, so I'm re-building it from nothing.

 

 

Note:

 

I noticed TWIST and CONE are swapped.