XP32 Maximum Skeleton (Special) Extended - XPMS(S)E

[Groovtama]

with the style sliders

[Mez558]

with the style sliders

 

Then I have done something wrong with the install, I have no Style Sliders for weapons, only Magic and Shouts :/

[Groovtama]

You have something overwriting the skeleton files, or a custom race with an old skeleton?

[Mez558]

You have something overwriting the skeleton files, or a custom race with an old skeleton?

 

You would think, seeing as every time I make a body adjustment I copy the body mesh files from Character Assets to the equivalent Ningheim race dir. I would have realised I would need to do the same thing with with the skeleton ones but alas, that little piece of logic eluded me.

 

Thank you for answering a dumb question

[Septfox]

Simple one extra parent node (CME Body) to Pelvis and Spine, and NiOverride. CME Thigh gets a Z position Transform CME Body gets the same, because they both rotated 180° to each other CME Body gets a increase in length by +Z, CME Thigh gets one by -Z. Same for CME Calf, CME Foot doesn't work because of the skining. Because multiple NiOverride transforms can be on the same bone the solution is pretty easy.

 

The same nodes are in the 1st person skeleton so it also gets updated with NiOverride Transforms, too.

 

What ECE does is pretty simple it scales the thighs with scaling the transflations and resacling them over the pelvis and root. Looks pretty fancy but is horrible math and slow. (The slider is also in RM as leg to body ratio, because it also makes the upper body smaller)

 

 

Yea, the slider that came with ECE is...a bit on the silly-complex side, on top of the noted problems of using scales only. On the bright side, it IS pretty much universally compatible, which was probably the intention.

 

Does ECE use the same method (when using "type 3" sliders/+'d nodes inline) for moving nodes as NiOverride, or does the latter do something special in comparison? I've heard ECE's code referred to as "spaghetti", so I would guess NiO is more efficient...anything else?

 

Unless you've found some way around it, beware: doing this too much (moving the bones too far from their original positions) can make animations look...odd. There're also stretching issues when moving the thighs downward due to how some meshes are skinned (Layer Bikini is a good way to see this).

 

 

Other fun places to mess with bone placements: torso bones are great because you can customize the body shape quite a bit, but it comes with the issue of a bit of a "shelf" forming just above the butt if Spine 1 and/or 2 are moved down. Arms are also a nice option, but they are *very* touchy in some cases.

 

I'd imagine most users are asking for a proper leg length slider, though, so...*shrugs*

[Groovtama]

 

Yea, the slider that came with ECE is...a bit on the silly-complex side, on top of the noted problems of using scales only. On the bright side, it IS pretty much universally compatible, which was probably the intention.

 

Does ECE use the same method (when using "type 3" sliders/+'d nodes inline) for moving nodes as NiOverride, or does the latter do something special in comparison? I've heard ECE's code referred to as "spaghetti", so I would guess NiO is more efficient...anything else?

 

Unless you've found some way around it, beware: doing this too much (moving the bones too far from their original positions) can make animations look...odd. There're also stretching issues when moving the thighs downward due to how some meshes are skinned (Layer Bikini is a good way to see this).

 

 

Other fun places to mess with bone placements: torso bones are great because you can customize the body shape quite a bit, but it comes with the issue of a bit of a "shelf" forming just above the butt if Spine 1 and/or 2 are moved down. Arms are also a nice option, but they are *very* touchy in some cases.

 

I'd imagine most users are asking for a proper leg length slider, though, so...*shrugs*

 

 

Nah universally compatible, use ECE and the "Leg Length" slider with XPMS without ECE fixes by me. That slider will make you float or move in the ground. The same happens with all skeleton that don't use default vanilla leg layout. If you would add the 3 bones to XPMS und use the "real" leg length slider in 2.2 it would still work. The other thing that disturbs me is the name of the slider, it says leg length but just scales the ratio between upperbody and lowerbody. Leg size slider would be more accurate than length.

 

ECE method are similar to NetImmerse, it is probably just hacky version of the later added NetImmerse.SetPosition function, I assume that because it has the same bugs as it. Because both operating on "world space" position data, because the game doesn't have any "local space" position data, these values can be dirtied by animations and gamelag and so on. NetImmerse suffers heavier than ECE because NetImmerse runs in papyrus while ECE scaling runs mostly in skse native.The code for scaling in CME is also wirtten in a really really bad manner. I doesn't read anything beforehand it just runs shit totally blindly.

 

NiOverride Transforms are working completely different to NetImmerse\ECE's way.

You add Transforms on a skeleton to a bone. That Transform will behave like a new bone, it can have a scale, a translation and a rotation. You can add multiple Transform to a single bone as long as they have a different indentifier/key. It is technically a stack where you have the original bone's scale, translation and rotation, and then your Transforms on it. When you use the UpdateTransform function that stack will be collapsed and the result will be the new translation, rotation and scale for that bone, you have added the Transforms.

All data, original node data, and all Transforms are still avaiable, meaning you can modify one Transform again and update and get just get the difference, or you can remove all Transform from that bone and have the original again. Meaning you don't have to save data to get the original you can just remove all modifications and you are done. Commited Transforms are also permanent to the savegame so you don't waste computing time on reapplying them all the time.

Because these Transforms work like a normal bone, they are operating in "local space" meaning they can't be dirtied by animations or lag and could be read from the stack without changes in their values.

 

NiOverride offsets animations correctly to my knowledge because of the local vs world space offsetting. Skinning problems is something I don't have to fix because it's not an issue I can predict.

 

Arms are something I only scale without changing the translation of children, mainly to don't get into problems with hand seams.

 

When ECE had positioning and scaling, it was really nice now with NetImmerse for scaling, positioning and rotating and NiOverride transforms, ECE just feels broken when you do anything for it. Maybe Transforms and stuff are costing more time to implement but they don't  are so hardly to debug as ECE sliders.

[Septfox]

Wow. Hell of an explanation, thank you for writing it up.

 

 

The code for scaling in CME is also wirtten in a really really bad manner. I doesn't read anything beforehand it just runs shit totally blindly.

Explains an odd problem I was having a while back...

 

I will say this: ECE itself has never felt particularly "broken" to me, working with it. It is, however, a monumental pain in the ass sometimes, mainly down to how sliders have to be configured. But then, I haven't worked with NiO as you have, so I really have no basis for comparison.

 

With NiOverride matured to this point, it seems the only thing we really need to put ECE to bed is the same vertex-editing interface that ECE has; which as I understand is currently being worked on and soon to be released. This has been the single feature that has kept me and many others from switching over.

 

Weird to think my next update will be based on XPMSE 2.20, and then that'll be it; RM will completely supercede ECE. I guess I expected it to go a bit longer, but then, ECE is over two years old and was "hacky" to begin with...

 

 

Guess I'd better start learning to use RM and NiO.

[Groovtama]

You bury both ECE and NetImmerse because both are conflictive to a high degree and for compatibility making NiOverride is far more easier.

 

Best to learn it for scaling is looking at expired or my script sources. Since NiOverride they have become quite small.

[PsychoMachina]

Can Head, Hands, and Feet scaling be added?  The hand and feet scaling that RM provides only makes them slender or fat as oppose to actual shrinking or enlarging.

[Groovtama]

The rm ones are made so translations don't change of child bones to prevent animation, first person and clipping problems with the ground or held weapons. in the next update maybe but it will probably require adjustment sliders where people have to fix the issues themselves.

 

Head size slider should not counter scale in rm because it is an endbone

[Spyder Arachnid]

So doing a full update and stuff, and want to be safe than sorry. So forgive my obliviously dumb question lol.

 

Will the newest version work with Dual Sheath Redux? Or is Dual Sheath Redux not needed anymore with the new weapon placement sliders?

[Groovtama]

So doing a full update and stuff, and want to be safe than sorry. So forgive my obliviously dumb question lol.

 

Will the newest version work with Dual Sheath Redux? Or is Dual Sheath Redux not needed anymore with the new weapon placement sliders?

Still supported. DSR still shows left hand weapons, I'm just moving the nodes around as I please^^. I'm not doing a second equipping overhaul.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Sounds great, thanks.

[akyryz]

2.14: how to place only the swords on my back?

[Groovtama]

2.14: how to place only the swords on my back?

...

RaceMenu 2.9.6 for the XPMSE RaceMenu Plugin which includes sliders for changing weapon positions aka "Styles".

...

XPMSE RaceMenu Plugin Features:

...

- Ingame Weapon positions aka Style switching, you do not choose it at Installation time anymore.

...

Weapon variants (Avaiable positions in RaceMenuPlugin, if a weapon category is not listed here the Style slider in RaceMenu only has only the default (0)):

...

Sword:

1: one-Handed Swords on Back (Dual Draw Animations: Immersive Animations by Bergzore)

...

[daedrasp]

There is no plugins for ECE user? 

[Groovtama]

There is no plugins for ECE user? 

The ini files with bufixes and extra features I provide since a whole year?

[xVentrusx]

In the menu of the mod it says if my character will be female or male. i'm gonna switch between female and male regularly so which option should i choose? i mostly use male character so if i choose male then would it effect my companions or other npcs? I'm trying to use this mainly for companions and npcs in skyrim so should i choose female in the option?

[Groovtama]

In the menu of the mod it says if my character will be female or male. i'm gonna switch between female and male regularly so which option should i choose? i mostly use male character so if i choose male then would it effect my companions or other npcs? I'm trying to use this mainly for companions and npcs in skyrim so should i choose female in the option?

Female supports both genders, the choice will be removed for default first person in the next update.

[xVentrusx]

 

In the menu of the mod it says if my character will be female or male. i'm gonna switch between female and male regularly so which option should i choose? i mostly use male character so if i choose male then would it effect my companions or other npcs? I'm trying to use this mainly for companions and npcs in skyrim so should i choose female in the option?

Female supports both genders, the choice will be removed for default first person in the next update.

 

Thank you so much for the mod and this .

[Jacksidious]

I have that inward belly issue when crouching only when i have on armor. Its fine if my character is naked. I have tried the JFF fix but when i try my hdt plugin doesnt have a belly option.

 

 

Pretty much when i crouch its like my characters belly button stays as if she were standing. Any help would be awesome. thanks

[requiem31]

Ok, I got a problem with Dual Sheath Redux:

 

The styles slider work fine for my character (male character so I chose the male option when installing) but not on the other npcs, except for shields.

Also, I installed through MO (like everyone should), and ran Dual Sheath Patcher via SUM.

 

I haven't found anything in this topic, so if it was already answered, my bad.

[Groovtama]

Ok, I got a problem with Dual Sheath Redux:

 

The styles slider work fine for my character (male character so I chose the male option when installing) but not on the other npcs, except for shields.

Also, I installed through MO (like everyone should), and ran Dual Sheath Patcher via SUM.

 

I haven't found anything in this topic, so if it was already answered, my bad.

NPC support is a feature RaceMenu adds to itself, not my construction site.

[Jacksidious]

Ok been trying to fix it. I fixed some other issues i had but now when my character crouches or jumps the breasts and stomach dont look right.

 

I'm not expecting you to fix it just looking for some ideas as to what might cause this. Idk if it is the skeleton or maybe my bodyslide needs to be some other thing like hdt. Thanks if not il figure it out

 

edit: nevermind! I fixed it. anyone else having this problem its a body and skeleton issue. i guess it thought they were attached to something else.

[Guest]

Mod Organizer says the sosracemenu.esp is a dummy file. is it ok to disable it?