LMAO - Tolls and Crimes

[thor3222]

3 hours ago, DarthCheney said:

I just started a new playthrough and I'm trying out your lovely little mod here. I was trying to enter Markarth, but couldn't actually pay the toll. The door was locked and explicitly telling me to talk to the gate guard, but there was no pay toll option in his dialogue. I do have the can't pay tolls with bounty option enabled and had just paid off a bounty like a minute earlier, so I wonder if that may have been why I couldn't get through the gate?

Hmmmm... yes, im guessing that is why. My guess is if you ran away from the gate a bit (changed cells) it would fix itself and let you in when you came back. Since I don't poll for those calls it really only happens on cell change. I'll look how to hook into paying bounties and see how I can fix that for next release.

[heilhobo]

I've had a few issues with the Whiterun main gate (leaving) and Windhelm main gate in either direction not accepting alternate payments.

 

I can pay that way but then the door won't let me open it. I thought the Whiterun one I broke initially by paying then going to Dragonsreach but even after leaving via console and coming back in I'm allowed to pay again but door won't open if I select anything but gold. Windhelm just never worked. I use the side gate by the docks if I fuck up and select the alternate payment on the main gate

[DarthCheney]

23 hours ago, thor3222 said:

Hmmmm... yes, im guessing that is why. My guess is if you ran away from the gate a bit (changed cells) it would fix itself and let you in when you came back. Since I don't poll for those calls it really only happens on cell change. I'll look how to hook into paying bounties and see how I can fix that for next release.

 

I tried running down the road a ways, then fast traveled to Karthwasten and back to the Markarth stables but unfortunately the guard still didn't have any dialog about tolls. Turning on the option to just pay directly at the gate worked fine and I was able to get through that way.

[thor3222]

14 hours ago, heilhobo said:

I've had a few issues with the Whiterun main gate (leaving) and Windhelm main gate in either direction not accepting alternate payments.

 

I can pay that way but then the door won't let me open it. I thought the Whiterun one I broke initially by paying then going to Dragonsreach but even after leaving via console and coming back in I'm allowed to pay again but door won't open if I select anything but gold. Windhelm just never worked. I use the side gate by the docks if I fuck up and select the alternate payment on the main gate

Very odd. 95% of my testing has been on whiterun, I've never seen that before.  So on that, the alternate payments are firing, but when they are complete the door isn't unlocking? if you talk to the guards again do they have payment options still, or are those gone?

I have heard a couple oddities with windhelm in general that tells me i need to do more testing. I wonder if its a similar situation to solitude where the game swaps the gates...but then again, if it did you would be able to just go through the gate all the time. 

Another user reported something similar on the discord, but the odd thing is if the dialogue isn't showing up it means the toll is marked as "paid" but the activation clearing is done before the toll is marked as paid. My assumption would be script lag but I don't see how a later part of the script would fire but an earlier part would not. 

edit: my own testing doesn't show that either. not entirely sure what could be happening. are you far along in the windhelm main story by any chance?

Does it give you any message box?

 

 

12 hours ago, DarthCheney said:

 

I tried running down the road a ways, then fast traveled to Karthwasten and back to the Markarth stables but unfortunately the guard still didn't have any dialog about tolls. Turning on the option to just pay directly at the gate worked fine and I was able to get through that way.

I know with markarth there is some initial blocking text before your first entry - have you talked through those first with the guard? after that it should show up.

Edited June 25, 2025 by thor3222

[thor3222]

On 6/23/2025 at 6:13 AM, ashleytaylor said:

Voice Pack for 0.1.5.0 Beta.

LMAO - Tolls and Crimes 0.1.5.0 voice pack.7z 165.71 MB · 5 downloads

I keep forgetting to link these on the main page, thank you so much for providing them! I really appreciate it, and will try to be better about linking to them as you make them! 

[Vollkornstulle]

I´m on 1.6.640 if that helps with the following problems. No city overwriting mod, no sort of AI overhaul.

 

1st problem: I still have the same issue I had since the start: I NEVER once got approached by the guards and I have no mod that overwrites them.

Not much of a problem tho, as I mainly use this mod as a mandatory gold dump to make sure I don´t have too much money, so I can have monetary consequences from other mods actually be impactful.

 

2nd Problem I have: Follower tolls don´t work for me. I have Toccata who uses default follower system as far as I know, but I never have differences in Tolls.

 

3rd Problem I had just now, which is the bad one: Windhelm main gate is malfunctioning for me again. Half the town is gathered at the gate and the gate says it is locked and I have to talk to the guards, even after talking to the gate guard and paying the toll.

 

4th Problem: I´m getting female gate guards and they have the male dialogue with cocks and stuff. Might be related to me having the wenches mod-series which overwrite female combat oriented NPCs to a part.

 

5th Problem: Sometimes the gate guards just leaves. Had that happen at the Solitude gate. That is also the one where I commonly have a female gate guard.

[thor3222]

17 hours ago, Vollkornstulle said:

I´m on 1.6.640 if that helps with the following problems. No city overwriting mod, no sort of AI overhaul.

 

1st problem: I still have the same issue I had since the start: I NEVER once got approached by the guards and I have no mod that overwrites them.

Not much of a problem tho, as I mainly use this mod as a mandatory gold dump to make sure I don´t have too much money, so I can have monetary consequences from other mods actually be impactful.

 

2nd Problem I have: Follower tolls don´t work for me. I have Toccata who uses default follower system as far as I know, but I never have differences in Tolls.

 

3rd Problem I had just now, which is the bad one: Windhelm main gate is malfunctioning for me again. Half the town is gathered at the gate and the gate says it is locked and I have to talk to the guards, even after talking to the gate guard and paying the toll.

 

4th Problem: I´m getting female gate guards and they have the male dialogue with cocks and stuff. Might be related to me having the wenches mod-series which overwrite female combat oriented NPCs to a part.

 

5th Problem: Sometimes the gate guards just leaves. Had that happen at the Solitude gate. That is also the one where I commonly have a female gate guard.

1. Approached by guards for crimes? Have you turned on the mod in the mcm? and the approaches happen only for a few reasons: picking locks in front of them, wielding weapons/magic in front of them, being nude in front of them. They may also randomly approach you for searches, but its much slower, and you will need to sort of hang around an area for that to happen. even then, its random and infrequent.

2. Follower behavior is a little finicky right now. not properly implemented. i need to rework it. 

3. Are you on the latest version? A version or 2 ago I found there was something blocking the gates in appropriately, which could explain the npc's. 

4. I always forget the base game has female guards. Eventually i'll write new dialogue for it, but it would be a long time down the road. doesn't fit the theme. realistically i would recommend just something like this: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/39506-misogynistic-guards/

 

5. This is another are you on the latest? A while ago I made special gate guards That just hang out by the gate. There is no way they should ever be female unless another mod is overwriting a base list

[Vollkornstulle]

3 hours ago, thor3222 said:

1. Approached by guards for crimes? Have you turned on the mod in the mcm? and the approaches happen only for a few reasons: picking locks in front of them, wielding weapons/magic in front of them, being nude in front of them. They may also randomly approach you for searches, but its much slower, and you will need to sort of hang around an area for that to happen. even then, its random and infrequent.

2. Follower behavior is a little finicky right now. not properly implemented. i need to rework it. 

3. Are you on the latest version? A version or 2 ago I found there was something blocking the gates in appropriately, which could explain the npc's. 

4. I always forget the base game has female guards. Eventually i'll write new dialogue for it, but it would be a long time down the road. doesn't fit the theme. realistically i would recommend just something like this: https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/39506-misogynistic-guards/

 

5. This is another are you on the latest? A while ago I made special gate guards That just hang out by the gate. There is no way they should ever be female unless another mod is overwriting a base list

I am on latest and I activated everything in MCM. The tolls are working and I can see on world changes that some values change.

I´ve been using this mod since it came out (You may notice I´m the second reply in this thread.) and I have never been approached by a guard. The few times I have dialogue happen was in earlyer versions when I talked to the guard directly, but since the repeated approach was fixed even that does not work anymore.

I tried out all the crimes to check if really nothing is happening and nothing ever happened. I tried it actively in earlyer versions, but even in the latest one that I´ve been using since release I have never been approached, and I am constantly using healing magic in the city thanks to UD using up a lot of my recources.

[thor3222]

2 hours ago, Vollkornstulle said:

I am on latest and I activated everything in MCM. The tolls are working and I can see on world changes that some values change.

I´ve been using this mod since it came out (You may notice I´m the second reply in this thread.) and I have never been approached by a guard. The few times I have dialogue happen was in earlyer versions when I talked to the guard directly, but since the repeated approach was fixed even that does not work anymore.

I tried out all the crimes to check if really nothing is happening and nothing ever happened. I tried it actively in earlyer versions, but even in the latest one that I´ve been using since release I have never been approached, and I am constantly using healing magic in the city thanks to UD using up a lot of my recources.

Do you happen to have scrabs papyrus extender installed? If you don't that would 100% explain the lack of confrontations. 

For all the detections I use the "GetDetectedBy" and sometimes "GetDetectedActors" functions in scrabs papyrus extender - if you don't have it, no guards will be detected, and thus no confrontation would ever happen.

edit: that would also explain your follower issues, cause while fussy, they do generally work - also uses getdetected by. a few integrations also need the getglobalvariable call. 

Edited June 26, 2025 by thor3222

[Vollkornstulle]

18 minutes ago, thor3222 said:

Do you happen to have scrabs papyrus extender installed? If you don't that would 100% explain the lack of confrontations. 

For all the detections I use the "GetDetectedBy" and sometimes "GetDetectedActors" functions in scrabs papyrus extender - if you don't have it, no guards will be detected, and thus no confrontation would ever happen.

edit: that would also explain your follower issues, cause while fussy, they do generally work - also uses getdetected by. a few integrations also need the getglobalvariable call. 

Yes, I have it. I am always thorough with requirements. All the requirements without anything overwriting them.

I have the 2.0 version as it was I believe the last version that supports 1.6.640. Are the functions native in a newer version?

[thor3222]

25 minutes ago, Vollkornstulle said:

Yes, I have it. I am always thorough with requirements. All the requirements without anything overwriting them.

I have the 2.0 version as it was I believe the last version that supports 1.6.640. Are the functions native in a newer version?

Yes, from what I can tell GetDetectedBy() is something from pyramidutils that got merged in 2.0 - however, in 2.1.0 it got moved into SPE_Actors, which is where I am calling it from. 
GetDetectedActors() wasn't introduced until 2.1.0 (though that is less important and tends to be a backup function i call) 

So that would certainly explain those issues. 

Let me spin my wheels on how to potentially resolve that issue. I am not generally on the side of working to keep older versions compatible (I'll never fully support LE for example, even though from what some people have reported it generally works - its mostly just i have no way to test these things without having multiple installs, and it makes building an enormous slog. testing already takes too long on one version.) but it might be a minor code thing I can do to make a major piece of functionality work. 

What I am thinking is potentially adding a simple config file i can upload and have the game read, where if it exists it flags an older version of papyrus extender, using the pyramid utils path instead of the SPE path. 

However, for my sanity, so I can make sure I am not just trying to build something for no reason, can you send me a link to the SPE that is supposed to work for 1.6.640? That will allow me to verify the function so I can map it correctly. If GetDetectedBy() is there, I can at least provide an update for that detection functionality in the next update (though that update is frankly slow going, im working on polishing the body search stuff as well as building the whiterun kennel, so it will be a big update)

the reason i ask is cause in the archives im seeing a 1.0.0 version that works with 6.640, but that would be so early it wouldn't be resolvable. But if you can point me to a pyramid utils or SPE that does have that function I should be able to do that.

[Vollkornstulle]

33 minutes ago, thor3222 said:

Yes, from what I can tell GetDetectedBy() is something from pyramidutils that got merged in 2.0 - however, in 2.1.0 it got moved into SPE_Actors, which is where I am calling it from. 
GetDetectedActors() wasn't introduced until 2.1.0 (though that is less important and tends to be a backup function i call) 

So that would certainly explain those issues. 

Let me spin my wheels on how to potentially resolve that issue. I am not generally on the side of working to keep older versions compatible (I'll never fully support LE for example, even though from what some people have reported it generally works - its mostly just i have no way to test these things without having multiple installs, and it makes building an enormous slog. testing already takes too long on one version.) but it might be a minor code thing I can do to make a major piece of functionality work. 

What I am thinking is potentially adding a simple config file i can upload and have the game read, where if it exists it flags an older version of papyrus extender, using the pyramid utils path instead of the SPE path. 

However, for my sanity, so I can make sure I am not just trying to build something for no reason, can you send me a link to the SPE that is supposed to work for 1.6.640? That will allow me to verify the function so I can map it correctly. If GetDetectedBy() is there, I can at least provide an update for that detection functionality in the next update (though that update is frankly slow going, im working on polishing the body search stuff as well as building the whiterun kennel, so it will be a big update)

the reason i ask is cause in the archives im seeing a 1.0.0 version that works with 6.640, but that would be so early it wouldn't be resolvable. But if you can point me to a pyramid utils or SPE that does have that function I should be able to do that.

I read on the nexus side that the newer versions work fine with 1.6.640. After upgrading it works for me. No ingame issues from using newer version.

[thor3222]

4 minutes ago, Vollkornstulle said:

I read on the nexus side that the newer versions work fine with 1.6.640. After upgrading it works for me. No ingame issues from using newer version.

LOVE IT! perfect solution! let me know if you find anything else that throws a fit! 

[DarthCheney]

On 6/25/2025 at 11:35 AM, thor3222 said:

I know with markarth there is some initial blocking text before your first entry - have you talked through those first with the guard? after that it should show up.

 

Cool, I'll check that out next time I boot it up.

[heilhobo]

On 6/25/2025 at 11:35 AM, thor3222 said:

Very odd. 95% of my testing has been on whiterun, I've never seen that before.  So on that, the alternate payments are firing, but when they are complete the door isn't unlocking? if you talk to the guards again do they have payment options still, or are those gone?

I have heard a couple oddities with windhelm in general that tells me i need to do more testing. I wonder if its a similar situation to solitude where the game swaps the gates...but then again, if it did you would be able to just go through the gate all the time. 

Another user reported something similar on the discord, but the odd thing is if the dialogue isn't showing up it means the toll is marked as "paid" but the activation clearing is done before the toll is marked as paid. My assumption would be script lag but I don't see how a later part of the script would fire but an earlier part would not. 

edit: my own testing doesn't show that either. not entirely sure what could be happening. are you far along in the windhelm main story by any chance?

Does it give you any message box?

 

 

I know with markarth there is some initial blocking text before your first entry - have you talked through those first with the guard? after that it should show up.

It is marked as paid and I cannot pay. I usually have to fast travel to the stable or console out of the city. They don't hit me with a punishment for skipping the toll but the door remains locked.

[slonez1]

this mod rules, I can't wait to see more

thanks for your work!

[thor3222]

7 hours ago, heilhobo said:

It is marked as paid and I cannot pay. I usually have to fast travel to the stable or console out of the city. They don't hit me with a punishment for skipping the toll but the door remains locked.

Try overwriting your scripts folder in LMAO with this - it has a small update I am planning to push out with the next update for the gate alias. This should allow you to pass if the toll has been paid.

LMAO_GateAlias.zip

[heilhobo]

20 hours ago, thor3222 said:

Try overwriting your scripts folder in LMAO with this - it has a small update I am planning to push out with the next update for the gate alias. This should allow you to pass if the toll has been paid.

LMAO_GateAlias.zip 3.31 kB · 3 downloads

I'll give this a try. I'll started a new game as well to see if the issue is with updating it mid save

[heilhobo]

This fixed it. It was not caused by upgrading mid save. 

[thor3222]

On 6/29/2025 at 6:27 AM, heilhobo said:

This fixed it. It was not caused by upgrading mid save. 

woop woop! will be up with the next release in the next few weeks when the initial release of the whiterun kennel comes!

[DS6677]

is this mod already set up to work with AND, or is there something else that needs to be done to get it to work with AND?

 

[thor3222]

1 hour ago, DS6677 said:

is this mod already set up to work with AND, or is there something else that needs to be done to get it to work with AND?

 

Already works with AND. all AND does with this is handle the nudity crime logic. 

[Vollkornstulle]

Funny little bug that happened to me just now:

I have hostility to require alternate payment set to 80 and my hostility in Solitude is 100.

Gate guard demanded to have sex, I clicked the option to not do it.

After that I got the option to pay the toll with money.

 

Another thing: I am thane in Whiterun and now my reputation is 100 and my hostility went to a negative number.

I have exemption from crimes as thane fully disabled.

No matter which crime I do, a guard never approaches me. Probably because the hostility number is negative.

Edited July 3, 2025 by Vollkornstulle

[Vollkornstulle]

To add to the last comment: The dialog when you are forced to do alternate stuff to enter/leave might need a bit of a rework.

Just got called 'too broke to pay for the toll' by the guard when I am forced to do alternate stuff.

[DonQuiWho]

I'm a bit lost on this one

 

Using STEAM AE 1.6.1170

 

In Whiterun, I get approached by a guard, who says nothing to the PC, but has text 'What's the Problem' and something like (IIRC)  'What's the matter'.  Per the console, the Guard has the LMAO Confrontation Package active.  If activating those text lines, the guard removes the PC's armour, leaving her nude, recorde a 'caught nude' event' and dishes out a bounty fine.  At this point the guard seems to have the LMAO Punishment Package active in the console

 

The armour is set to remove to inventory, rather than drop it, and that seems to work OK.  The PC puts the armour back on and all carries on, but the guard still has the confrontation package and related text, and stands in front of the NPC like a lost puppy.  I have also once seen an event that looked like adding a tattoo. 

 

I have tried to 'disable' and then 'enable' the guard but the packages don't seem to go away

 

I had only 3 crimes enabled, lockpicking, smithing after curfew (curfew handled by licences), nudity,, with the hostility levels for those ramped up a little, but the PC now has a huge hostility score,  Only nudity has registered as a crime and that after the guuard removeds the armour.  (Licenses are all up to date etc so that should not cause the removal)

 

If a guard approaches, they seem to have no intiating dialogue of their own.  eg, I just loaded up the game in the Whiterun Guardhouse.  A guard there has the Protection package.  You get what seems to be the PC saying 'I'm Sorry' followed by the guard saying 'till next time, followed by the PC saying 'come on let me go', 'Let Me go', and it's followed by 'What does that mean'   It's like seeing one side of the conversation only, ie the PC's

 

Any idea what might cause that? 

 

TIA for any insight you can give me

 

DQW