Devious Bandit Overhaul

[thebombers]

I think this is a really good/fun idea for a mod. I think making it work for all the bandits and bandit camps in the game sounds like a nightmare, so... god bless you for even considering it. As it is right now, I have a few things to mention:

 

- I didn't encounter any bugs, aside from weird interactions with other mods. For instance, talking to the bandits in the dress marks me as bound/helpless according to some mods, so I was running the risk of getting fitted with more bondage or getting raped every time I started talking. The rape scene also triggered the "bandit ignored, attack!" message, although they didn't actually turn hostile and I was able to continue the interaction when he was done

 

- The bandits never removed the dress; I assume this was intended, but there's no dialogue mentioning whether it's supposed to stay on or if they'll take it back, so it might be good to add something like that in.

 

- On that note, having the dress on and talking to them again made some of the options not work. For example, I accepted the dress deal to mine, but then I couldn't get a discount on the loot deposit because I already had a dress on; the only options that showed up were "Nah I'm good" and "I can't afford that." Maybe there should be another dialogue along the lines of "but you guys already dressed me?" You could even use that as an excuse for the bandits to add more bindings. Maybe you could have a string of bondage, and if you let the bandit tie you up enough there could be optional mod integration (like SD+ or Simple Slavery, or even Ebonitium) where they enslave you or sell you off, since you were stupid enough to let them make you helpless?

 

- Finally, the only way to intitiate the DBO dialogue was to leave Halted Stream, and come back. If I resolved a deal and spoke to the bandit again, they didn't have anything to say to me (that wasn't added by another mod.) It'd be really convenient if you could change your deal/add a deal while you're inside, since at present there's no way to get both mining and looting permission at the same time.

[El_Duderino]

Thank you so much, everybody, for the continued great feedback and the wonderful ideas!

 

6 hours ago, thebombers said:

For instance, talking to the bandits in the dress marks me as bound/helpless according to some mods

Oh! I should have thought of that. Mods like Deviously Helpless will likely not work too well alongside this mod. At the moment, I can't think of any good way to make them compatible. Will ponder over this!

 

6 hours ago, thebombers said:

The bandits never removed the dress; I assume this was intended, but there's no dialogue mentioning whether it's supposed to stay on or if they'll take it back ... having the dress on and talking to them again made some of the options not work

A very helpful and important observation! The dialogue definitely could do with some fleshing out around the devices, and probably also a closer look at the dialogue conditions for the various options. The bandits should probably also acknowledge any restrictive devices the player might already have equipped and result in some different dialogue options.

 

6 hours ago, thebombers said:

It'd be really convenient if you could change your deal/add a deal while you're inside, since at present there's no way to get both mining and looting permission at the same time.

Great idea! I didn't even consider that one might want to arrange both deals at once.

 

6 hours ago, thebombers said:

I think making it work for all the bandits and bandit camps in the game sounds like a nightmare

It's really not so bad! All that's required is to add a trigger box to each location and fill in its script property that tells the quest which location we're dealing with. The scenes and dialogue all run on a repetable quest with dynamic aliases, which resets and refills at the start of each encounter (after entering a camp's trigger).

 

Edited March 12, 2025 by El_Duderino

[El_Duderino]

8 hours ago, cafziel said:

It would even, with a lil interference with radiant quests, give the option to "fake" missions like "Kill Bandit X". The PC could kind of become a dragonborn bad actor,

Really cool idea, though I don't know how it could be implemented. How can we hook into the radiant quest and trick it into a accepting "fake killing" of the quest target? That could become a compatibility nightmare with other mods that use the radiant system like Notice Board. Then again, the mod is likely going to be incompatible with a bunch of things, so perhaps adding one more incompatibility is the least of our worries.

[Storm37]

On 3/11/2025 at 4:47 PM, El_Duderino said:

there are no consequences to the player and overall gameplay in that case

 

Unless you use other mods like Love Sickness, SL Survival, any pregnancy mods and so on that penalize the player for having too much sex.

[espguy]

I dont know if its on the mod scope but It would be fun if a dded some quests or the option to trade with bandits for more criminal oriented characters.

[mrdoodle]

Sounds awesome. I think many of the compability issues can be remedied (or rather brute-forced) with using SPID to distribute scripts to all bandits. Like setting aggression level, distributing the trigger-box etc?

[El_Duderino]

So, here's an interesting new conundrum:

 

I've just fixed the loot item tracker (OnItemAdded on player alias) which now also catches harvested and mined items.

 

The trouble is that it also reacts to all script-added items while inside the camp and without looting license. Those script-added items could come from any number of different sources including vanilla Skyrim (mining or harvesting of course, things like that silly fugitive quest, or even getting hit by an arrow).

 

Anybody got an idea how I could work around that?

[Manjimon]

Great idea, love the idea of actually being able to choose between your money or your life

Incompatibility for different bandit types seems to be something you could SPID

The real question is whether the marker box you set will break if anything else touches those cells

[naaitsab]

4 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

So, here's an interesting new conundrum:

 

I've just fixed the loot item tracker (OnItemAdded on player alias) which now also catches harvested and mined items.

 

The trouble is that it also reacts to all script-added items while inside the camp and without looting license. Those script-added items could come from any number of different sources including vanilla Skyrim (mining or harvesting of course, things like that silly fugitive quest, or even getting hit by an arrow).

 

Anybody got an idea how I could work around that?

 

It kind of depends on how far you want to go. You could look into this function:

https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/AddInventoryEventFilter_-_ObjectReference

 

 

Alternatively you could use a trigger to allow/prevent actions on the OnItemAdded. The mining is detected in a "onsit" event as it's classed as furniture. If you add items to the PC yourself you can set the bool to false and afterwards set it to true again.

 

bool ProcessingEnabled = true

Event OnSit(ObjectReference akFurniture)
	String ObjectName = akFurniture.GetBaseObject().GetName()
	If StringUtil.Find(ObjectName, "This Should Not Be Visible", 0) != -1 ;this is what the mining thing is called ingame
		ProcessingEnabled = false
	EndIf
EndEvent

Event OnGetUp(ObjectReference akFurniture)
	String ObjectName = akFurniture.GetBaseObject().GetName()
	If StringUtil.Find(ObjectName, "This Should Not Be Visible", 0) != -1 ;this is what the mining thing is called ingame
		ProcessingEnabled = true
	EndIf
endEvent


Event OnItemAdded(Form akBaseItem, int aiItemCount, ObjectReference akItemReference, ObjectReference akSourceContainer)
	if (ProcessingEnabled)
		;do things here
	endif
endEvent

 

[El_Duderino]

3 hours ago, naaitsab said:

The mining is detected in a "onsit" event

Thanks much! I didn't know that mining was a desk job in Skyrim,

That OnSit will be very useful to split the mining-only license from the global looting license for the bandit camps and track then separately.

 

Alas, the InventoryEventFilter doesn't seem like the ideal solution to the looting problem, though it should reduce the likelihood of the OnItemAdded firing in undesired moments if it has a sufficiently restrictive whitelist of tracked items. (Too bad that we can't filter by keyword like in FO4.)

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize how many things can go wrong with using OnItemAdded to make the bandits hostile. Mods like Wet & Cold could equip a hood or cloak. A follower could decide that it's time to give the player a gift. A mod could add a dummy item to add a temporary buff/debuff, ...

[Talesien]

Interesting concept, I wonder though, what's devious about it?^^

I tend to use both OBIS and Populated Skyrim though, removing them from my LO would be a major undertaking, due to the compatibility patches and stuff. In the long run a patch to make those popular mods compatible (if you go forward with this concept) is likely something worthwhile looking into it. I might take a peek once I've a bit more free time and see if it can be done quickly (i.e. perhaps with a xEdit script).

[naaitsab]

7 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Thanks much! I didn't know that mining was a desk job in Skyrim,

That OnSit will be very useful to split the mining-only license from the global looting license for the bandit camps and track then separately.

 

Alas, the InventoryEventFilter doesn't seem like the ideal solution to the looting problem, though it should reduce the likelihood of the OnItemAdded firing in undesired moments if it has a sufficiently restrictive whitelist of tracked items. (Too bad that we can't filter by keyword like in FO4.)

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize how many things can go wrong with using OnItemAdded to make the bandits hostile. Mods like Wet & Cold could equip a hood or cloak. A follower could decide that it's time to give the player a gift. A mod could add a dummy item to add a temporary buff/debuff, ...

 

Not sure if it is possible but perhaps see if you can relate the faction the "akSourceContainer" belongs to? That way you can at least track stealing items from the bandits themselves. 

 

You could also look into perks. These can be used to remove the option to activate certain thing but they also allow scripts. Perhaps you can do a condition stack to add location filtering. DD has some perks that modify activation, you could look into those for ideas.

 

Third one that might be an option is the location tracker of the quest story manager. There is an event in there that fires when the PC changes location. That can be conditioned so it only does something when the location is a bandit thing (if that's even classed?). Like (de)activate a "tracker quest"

 

So there are a few options but I don't think there is a one size fits all for your usecase.

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, naaitsab said:

So there are a few options but I don't think there is a one size fits all for your usecase.

Thanks much! Great ideas all! I only used the story manager for random NPC scenes so far, didn't know it also tracked location. Perks are something that I have yet to get a firmer grip on.

 

7 hours ago, Talesien said:

In the long run a patch to make those popular mods compatible

Patching the Populated series should be fairly easy, at least at first glance. Unless I'm missing something in how that mod works, all we'd have to do is create an override plugin for Populated which reduces its bandits' aggression and potentially faction relationships (I don't remember if it uses custom factions or the vanilla bandit factions).

[gamer098]

Great concept. Small bug I found - if selecting an option that leads to a fight, I can simply sheath my weapon, and combat ends, no consequences. The quest resets and the bandits can no longer be spoken to.

[krzp]

On 3/12/2025 at 3:10 PM, El_Duderino said:

Oh! I should have thought of that. Mods like Deviously Helpless will likely not work too well alongside this mod. At the moment, I can't think of any good way to make them compatible. Will ponder over this!

You can just do a SendModEvent( "dhlp-Suspend" ) at the start, and you won't have to worry about Helpless (won't set a dependency on it, if the user doesn't have it installed - it just won't do anything) ☺️

 

And SendModEvent( "dhlp-Resume" ) when you are finished with the player.

 

This, btw, will also shut down DCL, Devious Interest and most of the other ecosystem mods that follow this guideline.

 

 

Edited March 14, 2025 by krzp

[El_Duderino]

12 hours ago, krzp said:

You can just do a SendModEvent( "dhlp-Suspend" ) at the start

Thank you! For some reason, I keep forgetting about that mod event. Even after I implemented in the Ebonitium mod.

 

12 hours ago, gamer098 said:

Small bug I found - if selecting an option that leads to a fight, I can simply sheath my weapon, and combat ends, no consequences.

Thanks for reporting this. I think that's unfortunately as designed. I bet this is a consequence of me messing with the NPC aggression, in effect making the bandits act like ordinary Skyrim NPCs. Not sure if we can have the one without the other?

[kurotatsu]

On 3/15/2025 at 10:43 AM, El_Duderino said:

Thanks for reporting this. I think that's unfortunately as designed. I bet this is a consequence of me messing with the NPC aggression, in effect making the bandits act like ordinary Skyrim NPCs. Not sure if we can have the one without the other?

 

You can adjust their aggression via script, make them aggressive when you want to trigger fight.

[El_Duderino]

7 hours ago, kurotatsu said:

You can adjust their aggression via script, make them aggressive when you want to trigger fight.

Thanks, I didn't know that. However, I have already made some changes to the mod's functions and can't replicate the issue where the bandits stop fighting. As soon as you've angered them, it's a fight to death as one would expect in Skyrim (or until a death alternative mod takes over). I'll publish that new version soon; just needs a bit more testing.

[El_Duderino]

MAJOR UPDATE Released!

 

Absolutely requires a new game to work and provide reliable testing results.

 

Version 0.0.2 is still a very early alpha and intended solely for testing. It is definitely not ready for use in any serious playthrough. Please completely remove 0.0.1 from your mod manager before installing 0.0.2 and starting a new game.

 

Changes in 0.0.2:

• The main quest no longer runs a constant update loop. License validity is now checked once right after entering the camp trigger.

• Removed separate mining license. The looting license also tracks mining, so you'll simply pay for every ore you collect.
• AddItem tracking now runs on a separate quest which is only actzive while the player is inside the trigger and doesn't have a looting license. AddItem tracking gets paused when the player is in combat.

• added dhlp suspend/resume

• Encounter on entering triggerbox will not start if player already engaged in combat.

This update focuses on the core system of the mod. There have been no added features or flavour.

 

Expected Bandit Behaviour as of 0.0.2:

• Bandits aggro when leaving the trigger before entering dialogue (also if you return with a still valid license).

• Bandits aggro when picking up items before entering dialogue.

• Bandits aggro when tabbing out of dialogue during the license negotiation.

• When attacking the player, bandits should now pursue the player for much longer (up to six minutes) before the quest resets. The player shouldn't be able to yield to them (vanilla yield by sheathing your weapons) before that reset.

• Bandits in a camp that the player did battle with in the past should forever stay hostile to the player and attack without warning the next time the player enters their trigger. Currently, this should even persist through a respawn of a previously cleared camp (I should probably change that in a future update).

[Douie]

Looks like a fun mod with a great concept ! 

Since DD NG supports ostim, do you ever plan on assuring compatibility with ostim SA in the future ?

[Guest]

this mod looks promising

[NicholasJMoore]

I'm always looking for alternative ways of progressing through the game without combat as the first option. This will be a great addition once it's ready.

I'd love to get to a MAXED charisma type of play-through lol.

 

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aujOb50T8Pc)

[DayTri]

I really like the idea of this mod, but I think that editing the bandit faction as well as every in-game bandit is going to really limit compatibility and prevent mass adoption.

 

I think you could achieve the same gameplay goal in a less intrusive way: Just fill a quest alias with the player, and add the alias to a faction bandits are friendly with, like CaptiveFaction or BanditFriendFaction. That should make all bandits non-hostile toward the player in the same way, and additionally make it easier for you to start combat (you can just clear the alias when you want bandits to go hostile).

[thebombers]

8 hours ago, DayTri said:

I really like the idea of this mod, but I think that editing the bandit faction as well as every in-game bandit is going to really limit compatibility and prevent mass adoption.

 

I think you could achieve the same gameplay goal in a less intrusive way: Just fill a quest alias with the player, and add the alias to a faction bandits are friendly with, like CaptiveFaction or BanditFriendFaction. That should make all bandits non-hostile toward the player in the same way, and additionally make it easier for you to start combat (you can just clear the alias when you want bandits to go hostile).

 

I'm not a modder and don't know much about Skyrim's programming, but... if they did it that way, wouldn't they need one quest alias for every bandit camp in the game? Like if antagonizing the bandits removes the alias would that not affect every bandit camp, instead of just the one you're antagonizing? Would it still be less work that way?

[El_Duderino]

9 hours ago, DayTri said:

I really like the idea of this mod, but I think that editing the bandit faction as well as every in-game bandit is going to really limit compatibility and prevent mass adoption.

 

I think you could achieve the same gameplay goal in a less intrusive way: Just fill a quest alias with the player, and add the alias to a faction bandits are friendly with, like CaptiveFaction or BanditFriendFaction. That should make all bandits non-hostile toward the player in the same way, and additionally make it easier for you to start combat (you can just clear the alias when you want bandits to go hostile).

Thank you, that's an intriguing idea! That really ought to improve compatibility with other mods.

 

The trade-off would be that it wouldn't change how the bandits react to other Skyrim factions, which I found to be a very welcome side-effect of my current approach. By default, the bandits are only friendly with few other factions, such as the Khajiit caravans. That means that roadside bandit camps usually get wiped out by traveling NPCs within the first weeks of a playthrough (especially when using mods that add travelling NPCs).

 

I'll have to think about this. Perhaps it might not even be that difficult to provide two versions of the mod in the end: an "invasive" one that overhauls NPCs and factions, and a light one that handles only bandit-player interaction for improved compatibility.