Devious Bandit Overhaul

[nopermissio]

Great mod. Tried with Lawless Bandit Overhaul and Snozz's bandit camp location overhaul and works just fine. I did have to forward the aggression edit though. I also noticed that appearance overhaul may overwrite your aggression edit as well. May I suggest using Skypatcher to ensure your edit is not overwritten? I did not test myself but something like this should work: filterByFactions=Skyrim.esm|0001BCC0:setAggression=aggressive

 

The mod also has a small conflict with Unofficial Skyrim Modder's Patch on the bandit faction record. I combined them and they worked fine. 

[Vyru]

I've generated voicefiles in case someone wants them:

 

[Unyx1]

10 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

To be honest, I don't know. I used exactly one function from Scrab's extender for writing this mod: GetItemsByKeyword (such a wonderful thing!) That function usually from Pyramid Utils if I'm not mistaken (which is now included in Scrab's PapExtender). I don't konw if the same (identical) function is also part of powerofthree's extender.

 

In any case, does anything speak against installing Scrab's extender in your mod manager? As far as I know, these are all separate things and can be installed alongside each other without problems.

For me the only downside about Scrab's extender is that it only works for 1170 (at least I think it does because it contains a .dll and depends on address library which is also game version dependent). And since I'm still running 640 currently, anything that uses Scrab's extender is off the table.

 

Do you think this mod would work with pyramid utils because I have that installed and would love to try your mod, just not ready yet to switch over to the latest game version.

[El_Duderino]

39 minutes ago, Vyru said:

I've generated voicefiles in case someone wants them:

Thank you very much! I've taken the liberty of adding a link to the mod page.

 

5 hours ago, nopermissio said:

Great mod. Tried with Lawless Bandit Overhaul and Snozz's bandit camp location overhaul and works just fine. I did have to forward the aggression edit though. I also noticed that appearance overhaul may overwrite your aggression edit as well. May I suggest using Skypatcher to ensure your edit is not overwritten? I did not test myself but something like this should work: filterByFactions=Skyrim.esm|0001BCC0:setAggression=aggressive

 

The mod also has a small conflict with Unofficial Skyrim Modder's Patch on the bandit faction record. I combined them and they worked fine. 

Wow, that list of incompatible mods is growing fast! I don't think I heard of any of the mods you mentioned before. Thanks much for reporting these and the suggestion to create a patch. I'll have to look into that! For the time being, I have added them to the mod page's list of incompatibilities.

 

31 minutes ago, Unyx1 said:

Do you think this mod would work with pyramid utils because I have that installed and would love to try your mod, just not ready yet to switch over to the latest game version.

I don't have the original pyramid utils any more, but from what I can gather in Scrab's version, that function should already have been in the pyramid extender. In any case, I don't think the mod will break fundamentally if that extender function does not exist in your setup. The item removal/confiscation in this mod won't work and there'll be some log spam when it can't find the function, but (in theory) nothing game-breaking should happen.

[Unyx1]

18 minutes ago, El_Duderino said:

I don't have the original pyramid utils any more, but from what I can gather in Scrab's version, that function should already have been in the pyramid extender. In any case, I don't think the mod will break fundamentally if that extender function does not exist in your setup. The item removal/confiscation in this mod won't work and there'll be some log spam when it can't find the function, but (in theory) nothing game-breaking should happen.

Just checked the PyramidUtils.psc and the GetItemsByKeyword function you mentioned earlier seems to be in there

Spoiler

 

[Vyru]

8 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Thank you very much! I've taken the liberty of adding a link to the mod page

Of course! Also i didn't check what voicetypes are used in the mod and probably added too much in the export script. If you can give me a list i'll clean out the unused ones to reduce the file size. 

[VenomousOuroboros]

Has anyone actually tested this on Special Edition, v1.5.97?  I know you said:

Quote

Requirements

 

• Skyrim AE. No idea if older versions than 1130 work or not. My game is version 1170 though my CK is still 1130.

 

but I draw special attention to that "No idea if..."

[Miss Sophia]

On 3/21/2025 at 9:45 AM, El_Duderino said:

Thanks much for the feedback! Incompatibility with another bandits-related mod is a likely cause, though I've also detected a fairly major bug in how the bandit approach quest resets in the current version: The bandits aggro without (intentional) cause if the player leaves and/or re-enters the quest trigger in too rapid succession. I have already changed that in my dev version and am now testing the changes.

Just to be clear, I haven't tried this mod yet and I wish to ask, when you say incompatible, do you mean the functionality could break for some bandits who are overwritten, or are we talking corrupted saves and CTD? Because if it is the former, then that could just make for more variety, if it's the latter well, you know.

[El_Duderino]

On 4/21/2025 at 11:35 AM, Unyx1 said:

Just checked the PyramidUtils.psc and the GetItemsByKeyword function you mentioned earlier seems to be in there

Thank you very much for checking this! Good to know that the old version should work, too. I'll update the mod description accordingly.

 

On 4/22/2025 at 9:13 AM, VenomousOuroboros said:

Has anyone actually tested this on Special Edition, v1.5.97?  I know you said:

I'm not aware of any feedback concerning older versions. In theory, the mod should work just fine in them because I don't think I used any AE-specific things in it; it's all built in Papyrus and CK (no .dlls or other external things). So if PyramidUtils or Scrab's Extender work in 1.5.97, then the mod should do, too.

 

3 hours ago, Miss Sophia said:

I haven't tried this mod yet and I wish to ask, when you say incompatible, do you mean the functionality could break for some bandits who are overwritten, or are we talking corrupted saves and CTD?

It's the former. This mod shouldn't be able to corrupt saves or crash the game (and if it does, it would likely mean I made a fundamental mistake somewhere in its setup that I'd have to address).

 

Take the "Populated" mod for example. Without the patch that is on the download page, the bandits added from the Populated mod would still attack the player on sight, even if the player enters one of the camps this mod attempts to make neutral. This would in turn draw the bandits from my mod into the battle and it would end up just like a vanilla Sykrim bandit encounter. That would render this mod obsolete for that playthrough, but it wouldn't break the savegame.

[Miss Sophia]

3 hours ago, El_Duderino said:

Thank you very much for checking this! Good to know that the old version should work, too. I'll update the mod description accordingly.

 

I'm not aware of any feedback concerning older versions. In theory, the mod should work just fine in them because I don't think I used any AE-specific things in it; it's all built in Papyrus and CK (no .dlls or other external things). So if PyramidUtils or Scrab's Extender work in 1.5.97, then the mod should do, too.

 

It's the former. This mod shouldn't be able to corrupt saves or crash the game (and if it does, it would likely mean I made a fundamental mistake somewhere in its setup that I'd have to address).

 

Take the "Populated" mod for example. Without the patch that is on the download page, the bandits added from the Populated mod would still attack the player on sight, even if the player enters one of the camps this mod attempts to make neutral. This would in turn draw the bandits from my mod into the battle and it would end up just like a vanilla Sykrim bandit encounter. That would render this mod obsolete for that playthrough, but it wouldn't break the savegame.

I'm using MinAI, and I think you might consider having a look a Min's bridge for mods as an additional option for this mod, Min made the first iteration of Devious devices. I sent him this mod earlier and he thought it looked good to work alongside MinAI. As npc's have LLM dialogue and awareness, it really fits well with what you are doing here. I am doing a new character build so, i'll see what can happen without you integrating. Might even be able to work around some of the restrictions of issues mentioned by other users in this thread, by talking around them haha.

Thanks for the reply.

Edited April 23, 2025 by Miss Sophia

[shanyu]

Just discovered this.  Sounds incredibly promising.  I'm reorganizing my mod-list to get this one in now.  

It sounds like you made direct edits to the specific camps, so I'd assume that mods like More Bandit Camps (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/1994) or  Simple Bandit Camps (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/106632?tab=files&file_id=540785&nmm=1) would work but just retain the original behavior?  it's not using something like SPID to "find all of x and change to y" dynamically?  (I'm not much of a modder, but see SPID used in mods like Bandits Not Psychos (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/147809) and assume that's their means of dynamically applying such things)

Also was the splitting of "neutral" vs "hostile" (for the more distant bandit camps) primarily a style decision, or was it to avoid breaking gameplay in some of those areas?  I could certainly see a "this is our claim- go away" attack-on-sight attitude for these folk... and see the risk of it breaking big-time, but I'm curious on how this played out.


The game never gave me much chance to support it (until now), but I liked imagining the bandit people as far more approachable- sure, they could still be inclined to rob/rape/enslave someone, but imagine them as a people displaced by war, poverty, or the whims of a jarl's men, now trying to survive, whether by squatting mines without a claim license, occupying abandoned structures that are nevertheless the property of the jarl, camping at the entrances of ruins that may hold treasure, or charging protection for travel along "their" roads. 

 

I know you said you're feature-complete, so forgive my musings, but options I'd imagine:

On the non-devious side, I could imagine expanding trade with them.   Outlaws aren't able to go into town to buy essentials and they can't entirely rely on what they can steal from passers-by.   They may have critical needs (healing potions for their wounded, replacement weapons or armor, etc) that they'd pay better-than-market value.   They might also have some really nice stolen goods to unload. 

 The risk to the player? 
-A chance your "aid to an outlaw" is discovered and you gain a bounty that doesn't just wipe away the profit, but risks your freedom.   
-those stolen goods are marked stolen.

I'd also suggest betrayal chances.   Once they get you in a device, will someone try to renegotiate the deal?   Maybe a tie-in to Simple Slavery or follower slavery mod without needing to go hostile and get defeated first...

- A non-lethal fight option that they can agree to if they don't see you as too threatening. "How about this- we fight- no weapons, no magic 1 on 1.   If you win, I pay you triple what you ask.  If I win, I get free passage."  (and if you lose, you might have  a chance to equip something devious during your compromised state, or take a trophy of sorts.


Sorry, getting carried away.  Again, very promising mod- will report back once I've played with it.


 

[nmagod]

I should have thought when I saw the name "yeah this requires DD" but I didn't, and that's on me.

[El_Duderino]

On 4/23/2025 at 11:50 PM, Miss Sophia said:

I'm using MinAI, and I think you might consider having a look a Min's bridge for mods as an additional option for this mod

Thanks! I'm aware of the MinAI and very intrigued by it but I don't think my PC is up to the task. So for the time being I can only watch from a distance.

 

On 4/25/2025 at 11:33 PM, shanyu said:

It sounds like you made direct edits to the specific camps, so I'd assume that mods like More Bandit Camps ... or  Simple Bandit Camps ... Bandits not Psychos

Thanks much for pointing out these three mods (none of which I was aware of).

 

The two mods that add camps might be compatible in general, but they won't work as intended. My mod turns ALL members of the base game's Bandit faction neutral by default, so any "vanilla" bandits added anywhere on the map by a mod will also be neutral. You can just wander into their camps and do whatever. They probably won't even notice if you rob them blind while they're standing right beside you. That's really a design limitation in my mod, which makes things happen (bandit negotiations, hostile bandits) for hand-placed, specific locations only. Not only SPID can get me out of that, I think (though I do wish I'd have been more aware of SPID when I started writing this mod).

 

The Bandits not Psychos mod more or less does the same thing underneath which my mod does (though mine does it in a much more clumsy and "old-fashioned" way). I can't even guess if or how well the two might interact.

 

On 4/25/2025 at 11:33 PM, shanyu said:

On the non-devious side, I could imagine expanding trade with them. ... I'd also suggest betrayal chances.

Good ideas! I tried to do something for trading with them, but couldn't figure out how to do it so that it won't be an annoying back-and-forth trek or unreliable like the infamously unstable smith's fetch quest in Ebonitium. It didn't help that I could never sort out the fundamental shortcomings of this mod, which took away my motivation for doing more with it in general.

[Miss Sophia]

On 5/1/2025 at 11:26 AM, El_Duderino said:

Thanks! I'm aware of the MinAI and very intrigued by it but I don't think my PC is up to the task. So for the time being I can only watch from a distance.

 

Thanks much for pointing out these three mods (none of which I was aware of).

 

The two mods that add camps might be compatible in general, but they won't work as intended. My mod turns ALL members of the base game's Bandit faction neutral by default, so any "vanilla" bandits added anywhere on the map by a mod will also be neutral. You can just wander into their camps and do whatever. They probably won't even notice if you rob them blind while they're standing right beside you. That's really a design limitation in my mod, which makes things happen (bandit negotiations, hostile bandits) for hand-placed, specific locations only. Not only SPID can get me out of that, I think (though I do wish I'd have been more aware of SPID when I started writing this mod).

 

The Bandits not Psychos mod more or less does the same thing underneath which my mod does (though mine does it in a much more clumsy and "old-fashioned" way). I can't even guess if or how well the two might interact.

 

Good ideas! I tried to do something for trading with them, but couldn't figure out how to do it so that it won't be an annoying back-and-forth trek or unreliable like the infamously unstable smith's fetch quest in Ebonitium. It didn't help that I could never sort out the fundamental shortcomings of this mod, which took away my motivation for doing more with it in general.

well he just forked the forked the whole project haha, I'm running the mod on a 5 yr old PC, you can do the xtts in the cloud

[hungvipbcsok]

Anyone know if this mod is compatible with Devious Striker?

[El_Duderino]

5 hours ago, hungvipbcsok said:

Anyone know if this mod is compatible with Devious Striker?

Ooh, thanks much for pointing out that mod!

 

I've checked the .esp in xEdit and I don't think it's compatible out of the box. The strikers' faction has the player set as enemy by default, which makes them attack on sight.

 

Creating a patch might be as simple as removing the "player = enemy" entry in the striker faction. The strikers are allied with all the factions in which they can spawn, meaning they'll still attack the player as soon as an allied faction member (like a bandit) attacks the player.

 

Come to think of it, removing the player as enemy for the strikers might even improve compatibility with other mods or quest that set the player permanently or temporarily neutral to enemy factions.

 

EDIT: Created a "quick'n'dirty" patch for the striker faction. I don't have time to test this myself at the moment, but if anybody is feeling adventurous, please give it a try. Important: back up your load order before you attempt installing this and keep a savegame from before adding the patch.

Devious Striker Bandit Overhaul Patch.esp

Edited May 16, 2025 by El_Duderino

[Batty333]

Is it possible to get a patch for Bakafactories version of Populated Skyrim?

 

https://subscribestar.adult/posts/990128

[El_Duderino]

On 6/12/2025 at 10:37 PM, Batty333 said:

Is it possible to get a patch for Bakafactories version of Populated Skyrim?

Didn't even know that another version of Populated existed. In any case, a compat patch shouldn't be too hard to build in xEdit (basically, just change factions and/or NPC aggression).

[XDbored]

i am able to get aggression, working by checking load order, smashing and checking in SSEedit, thats the easy part, but for me the bandit dialogue never works so the NPCs are just fully passiveloadorder.txt

[El_Duderino]

3 hours ago, XDbored said:

i am able to get aggression, working by checking load order, smashing and checking in SSEedit, thats the easy part, but for me the bandit dialogue never works so the NPCs are just fully passive

That may be working as designed. With the mod, the bandits only interact with you in certain camps (mainly the occupied forts and hideouts near the main roads). Have you been to the Valtheim towers or one of the other camps near Whiterun? The bandits should approach you there and have the custom dialogue (there's no forcegreet though).

 

The majority of other bandit encounters, including random roadside ones, should have the bandits fully neutral unless to you and most other NPCs. Some hand-picked locations far away from the roads (like Bleak Falls Barrow) will turn the bandits hostile as soon as you get too close.

 

At least that's how it's supposed to work...  

[XDbored]

i checked a couple of camps/ruins, but idk if they were the right ones

[El_Duderino]

1 hour ago, XDbored said:

i checked a couple of camps/ruins, but idk if they were the right ones

 

These are the "friendly" camps (caution: actual mod spoiler inside)

Spoiler

; 01 = Cracked Tusk Keep
; 02 = Cragslane Cavern
; 03 = Embershard Mine
; 04 = Faldar's Tooth
; 05 = Fort Fellhammer
; 06 = Knifepoint Ridge
; 07 = Treva's Watch
; 08 = White River Watch
; 09 = Bilegulch Mine
; 10 = Fort Greymoor
; 11 = Fort Dunstad
; 12 = Halted Stream Camp
; 13 = Fort Greenwall
; 14 = Fort Hraggstad
; 20 = Robber's Gorge
; 22 = Silent Moons Camp
; 29 = Valtheim Towers

 

And these are the always-hostile locations (probably even worse spoilers):

Spoiler

; Broken Helm Hollow
; Broken Oar Grotto
; Four Skull Lookout
; Frostmere Crypt
; Gallows Rock (Silver Hand)
; Lost Knife Hideout
; Orotheim
; Redoran's Retreat
; Rift Watchtower
; Ruins of Bthalft
; Snowpoint Beacon
; Stony Creek Cave
; Swindler's Den
; Ustengrav
; Uttering Hills Cave
; Wreck of the Winter War
; Pinewatch
; Traitor's Post
; Brinewater Grotto
; Duskglow Crevice
; Liar's Retreat
; Wolfskull Cave
; Irkngthand
; Skybound Watch Pass
; Bleak Falls Barrow
; Volkskygge
; Journeyman's Nook
; Bannermist Towers
; Skybound Underhang

 

[everflame]

I actually think that the partial incompatibility with other rogue mods makes this mod even richer. Rogues who used to be neutral and wouldn't attack me suddenly turn hostile because of rogues added by other mods, or hideouts I used to safely pass through become extremely aggressive. These unpredictable and random elements deepen my immersion in the world.

[Its_LB]

On 6/12/2025 at 4:37 PM, Batty333 said:

Is it possible to get a patch for Bakafactories version of Populated Skyrim?

 

https://subscribestar.adult/posts/990128

+1, can't play without Baka populated skyrim anymore.

[qwrsafca]

Some bandits are not hostile to me, and the event dialogue doesn't start.