Crashing while going near Falkreath hold (SOLVED)

[RedHeadAngel]

This thread was originally called "Is staying on SE (1.5.97) causing game breaking bugs?" However, I renamed it to be more appropriate to what the thread was about.

 

I've been dealing with a major issue with my game, where it will crash when going into Falkreath hold. I'd get to this point (the red dot to the north of Falkreath)

 

 

and the game would crash. I don't know why this is happening because I have installed every single mod I have ever used exactly as the creator instructed. I read every single description from top to bottom, every word, number, punctuation mark, etc. Yet, my game still suffers from these issues.

 

I've been working with a user on Nexus to solve these issues, but they said something interesting. They suggested that I update my game to AE because, and I quote,

Quote

Majority of mods these days rely on stuff introduced since then.    Chances are, that is what causing your crashes - using mods build for 1.6.* on a 1.5.97.    And indeed back in 2022, it was generally beneficial to stick with 1.5.97.   Now, it does a lot more harm than good.

 

I spoke with other modders back when I joined this community in August last year, and they told me the exact opposite: to stick with SE because it was better. Right now, I don't know what the hell I need to do. What I do know is that I'm on the verge of just deleting my game and all the modding stuff I've installed because I'm sick and fraggin' tired of dealing with this malarkey. I'd appreciate it if I could get some information on whether or not updating to AE is better than sticking with SE.

 

As a side note, here's my crash log from when I was trying to find out why the game was crashing. I showed it to them, but they didn't give me any real feedback on it.

 

2025-03-09-10-38-54.log

Edited March 10, 2025 by RedHeadAngel

[NymphoElf]

2 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

I've been working with a user on Nexus to solve these issues, but they said something interesting. They suggested that I update my game to AE because, and I quote,

Quote

Majority of mods these days rely on stuff introduced since then.    Chances are, that is what causing your crashes - using mods build for 1.6.* on a 1.5.97.    And indeed back in 2022, it was generally beneficial to stick with 1.5.97.   Now, it does a lot more harm than good.

 

 

Whoever made this quote doesn't know what they're talking about. 1.5 vs 1.6+ only matters if a mod is using a DLL because the base executable was recompiled for 1.6+. Otherwise, you can use B.E.E.S and not worry about it. If this was truly an issue with using a 1.6 mod, you likely wouldn't have made it in-game at all, crashed much sooner, and/or not in the same place.

 

The only hard stance I'll make as far as versions is that SE/AE is objectively better than LE. Nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

 

As far as SE vs AE, it ultimately comes down to preference.

 

------------

 

Anyways, to your real problem:

 

I've had this issue before. You very likely have an unhandled conflict in that World Cell near Falkreath. You need to find the mods which are trying to edit that cell at the same time and pick which one is the "winner" with a merged patch or something similar. It was a long time ago that I had this issue, so I can't remember which mod was editing that location for me, but I know it was some mod that added an extra house or something near that cell (not saying you're using the same mod, but you could be?).

 

TLDR: You have an unhandled, critical conflict.

 

EDIT: I forgot about bad meshes/textures being a possibility. It's been a while since I ran into that.

Edited March 9, 2025 by NymphoElf

[RedHeadAngel]

56 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

 

Whoever made this quote doesn't know what they're talking about. 1.5 vs 1.6+ only matters if a mod is using a DLL because the base executable was recompiled for 1.6+. Otherwise, you can use B.E.E.S and not worry about it. If this was truly an issue with using a 1.6 mod, you likely wouldn't have made it in-game at all, crashed much sooner, and/or not in the same place.

 

The only hard stance I'll make as far as versions is that SE/AE is objectively better than LE. Nobody will ever be able to convince me otherwise.

 

As far as SE vs AE, it ultimately comes down to preference.

 

------------

 

Anyways, to your real problem:

 

I've had this issue before. You very likely have an unhandled conflict in that World Cell near Falkreath. You need to find the mods which are trying to edit that cell at the same time and pick which one is the "winner" with a merged patch or something similar. It was a long time ago that I had this issue, so I can't remember which mod was editing that location for me, but I know it was some mod that added an extra house or something near that cell (not saying you're using the same mod, but you could be?).

 

TLDR: You have an unhandled, critical conflict.

If I provide screenshots of my load order, could you help me find the issue? I have no idea what could be causing a conflict.

[Grey Cloud]

1 hour ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Majority of mods these days rely on stuff introduced since then.    Chances are, that is what causing your crashes - using mods build for 1.6.* on a 1.5.97.

Whenever anybody makes a statement like that about any subject always ask for evidence.

 

I run 1.5.97 myself but I've never used 1.6 so I can't comment on which, if any, is bestest.

 

If your crash is happening at the, more or less, same spot then it could a bad mesh. The mesh might be road, grass, tree, critter, plant, etc. Have you tried coming at it from different directions to narrow down the area?

 

EDIT: Or bad texture has as just been pointed out.

Edited March 9, 2025 by Grey Cloud

[alex77r4]

1 hour ago, RedHeadAngel said:

crash when going into Falkreath hold. I'd get to this point (the red dot to the north of Falkreath)

This is a rule from the year 2012 and is valid today:

If the game always crash in the same zone you have 99.99% of probabilities to be caused by a bad mesh or a bad texture.

Disable mods until you find the problematic mod.

--------

The game version is indifferent, i have 1.5.97 and play all mods without any problem. Of course, LE and SE use different format in mesh and textures and for that we have different download for LE and for SE. But we NOT have different download for SE/AE because the format of the ESP's, meshes and textures are the same.

Not worry about the game version except when the mod have a DLL that must match your game version.

[belegost]

A crash logger will most likely provide an information

2 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Majority of mods these days rely on stuff introduced since then.    Chances are, that is what causing your crashes - using mods build for 1.6.* on a 1.5.97.    And indeed back in 2022, it was generally beneficial to stick with 1.5.97.   Now, it does a lot more harm than good.

This quote is about as hilarious as someone claiming that if you use SKSE, you should have no more than 50 saves in your save folder, otherwise bad things will happen.

 

I wonder, why not 42?

Edited March 9, 2025 by belegost

[RedHeadAngel]

I'm currently going through my mods to see if I can find the mod causing the problem. The problem is that I have 80 installed. And no, I didn't just install all of them at once. I'm not an idiot. I've already ruled out the core game, SKSE, ENB and the preset I use (NAT.ENB), ENB Helper, USSEP, NSFW Statues AIO, and Address Library. I'm currently going through the mods that I know affect the entire game's textures because that's the main thing everyone is talking about. I have no mods that just affect Falkreath hold.

 

Also, I forgot to mention that the crashing problem also happens in an area east of Solitude. Here it is on the map.

 

I can continue listing mods I have, but instead, here are some screenshots of my LO. I'd appreciate it if anyone could help me find the mod it could be.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, belegost said:

A crash logger will most likely provide an information

I put a crash log at the bottom of my 1st post.

[NymphoElf]

1 hour ago, RedHeadAngel said:

If I provide screenshots of my load order, could you help me find the issue? I have no idea what could be causing a conflict.

 

Unfortunately Load Orders only help if the person helping is familiar with every mod on the list, and the odds of that being the case are insanely low.

 

The only other time that helps is if the problem is from one specific mod and someone else happens to have had your same exact issue AND actively knows/remembers how to fix it (which in this case I do not).

 

This is the difficult part of modding. Every load order is unique, and every mod user needs to know/learn how to debug their own load order. The process is generally the same for everyone, but only YOU will know how your exact load order can/will behave, and therefore you are the only one that can consistently find a cure.

 

It's easy to get impatient when learning how to fix these issues. Just remember two things:

1) Yes, you CAN do this!

2) Yes, it WILL take time!

[NymphoElf]

31 minutes ago, RedHeadAngel said:

I put a crash log at the bottom of my 1st post.

 

Yeah but you specifically need Trainwreck and Crash Log Analyzer. The default crash logs aren't able to be analyzed by CLA (I tried. Blank report).

 

These mods will give you a better idea of what's going on, and could even tell you the exact problem. It's not a 100% guarantee the first time, but it cuts out a lot of the guess work.

 

TBH I should have recommended this sooner.

[RedHeadAngel]

26 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

 

Unfortunately Load Orders only help if the person helping is familiar with every mod on the list, and the odds of that being the case are insanely low.

 

The only other time that helps is if the problem is from one specific mod and someone else happens to have had your same exact issue AND actively knows/remembers how to fix it (which in this case I do not).

 

This is the difficult part of modding. Every load order is unique, and every mod user needs to know/learn how to debug their own load order. The process is generally the same for everyone, but only YOU will know how your exact load order can/will behave, and therefore you are the only one that can consistently find a cure.

 

It's easy to get impatient when learning how to fix these issues. Just remember two things:

1) Yes, you CAN do this!

2) Yes, it WILL take time!

Well, I just ruled out Skyland AIO. I visited the places where the crashing was happening, and the game didn't. I'm going to check SMIM next. That's really the only other mod I have that messes with game textures.

 

By the way, I love your profile pic. I love blondes and elves. I especially love blonde elves. 

[Grey Cloud]

It's late here and I'm ready for bed but . . .

You have files in your overwrite and three mods with red triangles happening. Probably nothing to do with the crashes but always get rid of any other issues before troubleshooting a major problem.

 

Your left pane could do with a bit of rearranging, if only for your own sanity once you get a full compliment of mods installed. I don't use categories myself but I do group related mods together. For example I have these between the DLC and USSEP upside down here obviously):

 

+Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch
+Vanilla Scripting Enhancements
+SKSE64_Elys_U Fog Remover_1_0_3_0
+Simple Offence Suppression
+Recursion Fix
+PrivateProfileRedirector SE 0.6.2 (Runtime 1.5.97)
+powerofthree's Tweaks
+powerofthree's Papyrus Extender
+(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.5.39 - 1.5.97
+Papyrus Tweaks 4.1.0
+PapyrusUtil SE - Scripting Utility Functions
+NetScriptFramework SkyrimSE
+Mfg Fix
+JContainers SE
+GameplayTweaks
+FileAccess Interface for Skyrim SE Scripts - FISSES
+Bug Fixes SSE (Special Edition)
+BEES-1_2
+Address Library AIO
+Actor Limit Fix (Special Edition)
+SKSE64 INI PRE DOWNLOAD
+SKSE Output
*DLC: Dawnguard
*DLC: Dragonborn

 

You may not need all these but worth checking.

 

E.g. 2 Keep all armour mods together so you can easily spot a particular mod or skip armours if you are looking for a non-armour mod. 

Alt Start should be way down at the bottom.

[RedHeadAngel]

51 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

It's late here and I'm ready for bed but . . .

You have files in your overwrite and three mods with red triangles happening. Probably nothing to do with the crashes but always get rid of any other issues before troubleshooting a major problem.

 

Your left pane could do with a bit of rearranging, if only for your own sanity once you get a full compliment of mods installed. I don't use categories myself but I do group related mods together. For example I have these between the DLC and USSEP upside down here obviously):

 

+Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch
+Vanilla Scripting Enhancements
+SKSE64_Elys_U Fog Remover_1_0_3_0
+Simple Offence Suppression
+Recursion Fix
+PrivateProfileRedirector SE 0.6.2 (Runtime 1.5.97)
+powerofthree's Tweaks
+powerofthree's Papyrus Extender
+(Part 1) SSE Engine Fixes for 1.5.39 - 1.5.97
+Papyrus Tweaks 4.1.0
+PapyrusUtil SE - Scripting Utility Functions
+NetScriptFramework SkyrimSE
+Mfg Fix
+JContainers SE
+GameplayTweaks
+FileAccess Interface for Skyrim SE Scripts - FISSES
+Bug Fixes SSE (Special Edition)
+BEES-1_2
+Address Library AIO
+Actor Limit Fix (Special Edition)
+SKSE64 INI PRE DOWNLOAD
+SKSE Output
*DLC: Dawnguard
*DLC: Dragonborn

 

You may not need all these but worth checking.

 

E.g. 2 Keep all armour mods together so you can easily spot a particular mod or skip armours if you are looking for a non-armour mod. 

Alt Start should be way down at the bottom.

I can’t find any guides that tell me what I’m supposed to do with the overwrite folder. Also, what am I supposed to do with the mods that have red triangles?

I usually keep certain mods together. When I had a bunch of outfit and armor mods, I kept them together unless the creator said otherwise.

[alex77r4]

1 hour ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Well, I just ruled out Skyland AIO. I visited the places where the crashing was happening, and the game didn't.

I'm going to check SMIM next. That's really the only other mod I have that messes with game textures.

I not think that two mods can have something bad. Can be, but i dude it a lot.

 

Skyland AIO is a gigantic mod, 6.5 GB, with a lot of updates and a lot of dependent mods. Look the download count... A file with 3 millons of downloads can be bad?

Same with SMIM... 13 millons from 2016 and a lot of dependant... not... look in other side.

 

Search small mods that overwrite the big mods.

[RedHeadAngel]

1 minute ago, alex77r4 said:

I not think that two mods can have something bad. Can be, but i dude it a lot.

 

Skyland AIO is a gigantic mod, 6.5 GB, with a lot of updates and a lot of dependent mods. Look the download count... A file with 3 millons of downloads can be bad?

Same with SMIM... 13 millons from 2016 and a lot of dependant... not... look in other side.

 

Search small mods that overwrite the big mods.

Just because a mod has a lot of downloads doesn't mean it can't cause issues. Also, I already tested it, and it's fine, so it doesn't matter.

[RedHeadAngel]

Before I go to bed, I wanted to give an update to anyone still reading. After many hours of testing and making my girlfriend laugh her ass off with my insanity-driven commentary of random events, I've ruled out the following files and mods from my load order (see my post 8 posts up between @belegost and @NymphoElf for pics of my LO).

 

The core files (the game itself and DLCs)

 

ENB, my ENB preset (NAT.ENB III), and SKSE

 

USSEP

 

Skyland AIO

 

Lux and Lux Via

 

SMIM and its affiliated mods

 

NSFW Statues AIO

 

EVLaS

 

ENB Helper

 

SkyUI, UI Extensions, and the flashing saves fix

 

Address Library for SKSE Plugins

 

Mist Flight

 

AddItem Menu

 

Alternate Start

 

FNIS

 

I have basically ruled out every mod I have that affects the game's textures, lighting, and other things of that nature, so I don't know what else it could be. I initially thought it was the Mist Flying mod because I would use that to get to areas quicker. When the crashing would happen, I thought it was because I was pushing the game too hard. However, when the game crashed from me just walking to Falkreath, I realized that wasn't it.

Right now, I'm left with 2 thoughts. The first is that disabling all my mods has somehow resolved the issue (which I highly doubt). Second, it wasn't broken or bad textures, and something else was causing the problem. Either way, I will continue going through my mods in hope that I can fix this.

[alex77r4]

2 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Second, it wasn't broken or bad textures, and something else was causing the problem.

Are you following the basic rule of make the test starting a New Game with Alternate Start or any similar mod?

If you are loading your saved game near Falkreath and you get CTD when walk, run or fly you can have something bad in your saved game.

Additionally, a lot of mods store a lot of thing inside the saved game and, sometimes, is not enough disable it and you must start a New Game.

[Grey Cloud]

10 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

I can’t find any guides that tell me what I’m supposed to do with the overwrite folder. Also, what am I supposed to do with the mods that have red triangles?

It depends on what is in there but but generally you make a mod out of the files, e.g. FNIS output, and have that installed like a regular mod. Hover over the triangle to see what the problem is.

 

9 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

Just because a mod has a lot of downloads doesn't mean it can't cause issues.

True but a mod with 3 million downloads that has been around for years is unlikely to have problems.

 

Overwrite Folder

[RedHeadAngel]

5 hours ago, alex77r4 said:

Are you following the basic rule of make the test starting a New Game with Alternate Start or any similar mod?

If you are loading your saved game near Falkreath and you get CTD when walk, run or fly you can have something bad in your saved game.

Additionally, a lot of mods store a lot of thing inside the saved game and, sometimes, is not enough disable it and you must start a New Game.

Yes, I have been doing that this whole time. Also, if you’re just going to be rude about it, then you can leave. If you continue coming in here with your bad attitude, then I will report you.

Edited March 10, 2025 by RedHeadAngel

[RedHeadAngel]

2 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

It depends on what is in there but but generally you make a mod out of the files, e.g. FNIS output, and have that installed like a regular mod. Hover over the triangle to see what the problem is.

 

True but a mod with 3 million downloads that has been around for years is unlikely to have problems.

 

Overwrite Folder

So, I just make a new mod for everything that ends up in the overwrite folder?

 

The red triangles say I have an older version of those mods installed. That can't be right because I installed the latest versions available.

Edited March 10, 2025 by RedHeadAngel

[Grey Cloud]

57 minutes ago, RedHeadAngel said:

So, I just make a new mod for everything that ends up in the overwrite folder?

Watch the 4 minute video I linked to.

 

58 minutes ago, RedHeadAngel said:

The red triangles say I have an older version of those mods installed. That can't be right because I installed the latest versions available.

I'm guessing that this just because you have MO2 to check for new versions.

[RedHeadAngel]

3 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Watch the 4 minute video I linked to.

 

I'm guessing that this just because you have MO2 to check for new versions.

I watched the video. The problem is he doesn’t explain when you’re supposed to make a mod out of files in the overwrite folder. He used those 3 mods as examples, but that doesn’t explain exactly what mods I’m supposed to do that with. For example, when I use Bodyslide, what do I do with the files that are generated from that? Do I make a separate mod for that or do I drop the files into one of the mods I used BS for?
Also, I found the mod that was causing the problem. However, this creates a whole new series of problems for me because it’s a mod that I highly rely on. It’s RaceMenu. I activated the mod, went into the game, went to the areas where the game was crashing, and the game crashed. Just to make sure, I went back deactivated the mod, went back into the game, went to the crashing area, and the game did not crash. Because I’m a believer in the saying “If it’s not repeatable, it’s not science.” I did it one more time and the results were repeated.

I don’t know what I’m supposed to do now. I don’t know how RM could be causing this issue, but it is.

[NymphoElf]

40 minutes ago, RedHeadAngel said:

It’s RaceMenu. I activated the mod, went into the game, went to the areas where the game was crashing, and the game crashed. Just to make sure, I went back deactivated the mod, went back into the game, went to the crashing area, and the game did not crash.

 

Try completely reinstalling RaceMenu and re-running FNIS/NEMESIS.

 

I still heavily recommend Crash Log Analyzer.

[Grey Cloud]

32 minutes ago, RedHeadAngel said:

The problem is he doesn’t explain when you’re supposed to make a mod out of files in the overwrite folder. He used those 3 mods as examples, but that doesn’t explain exactly what mods I’m supposed to do that with. For example, when I use Bodyslide, what do I do with the files that are generated from that? Do I make a separate mod for that or do I drop the files into one of the mods I used BS for?

Just create a new mod for each one. For instance I have a SKSE Output folder rather than having the output go directly into the parent mod. My SKSE Output folder contains files from umpteen mods.

If you go to Modify Executables you can tell MO2 to "Create files in mod rather than overwrite" then choose the mod or output folder where you want the files to go. After that it is done automatically and you wont see anything from that mod in your overwrite again.

 

Bodyslide needs an extra step with MO2.

 

Create a new mod in MO2 "Bodyslide Output" (or whatever).

Go to BS - settings - advanced - Output path - enter \Mods\MO2\Bodyslide Output.

Go to Bodyslide x64 in Modify Executables and point at your output folder.

 

The version of RaceMenu I'm using with 1.5.97 is v0.4.16. It's way down the list of 'Old files' on the Nexus.

[travelmedic]

2 hours ago, RedHeadAngel said:

The red triangles say I have an older version of those mods installed. That can't be right because I installed the latest versions available.

 

That can be caused if a mod author uploads a new version of a mod (let's just say v 2.0) and forgets to update the version number on the main Description page of the mod (which might still say v 1.1).  MO2 sees the discrepancy between the version you downloaded and the version number showing on Nexus and gets confused.

 

It's a false error, but it takes the mod author updating their page to make it go away.

Edited March 10, 2025 by travelmedic
clarification

[RedHeadAngel]

15 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

Just create a new mod for each one. For instance I have a SKSE Output folder rather than having the output go directly into the parent mod. My SKSE Output folder contains files from umpteen mods.

If you go to Modify Executables you can tell MO2 to "Create files in mod rather than overwrite" then choose the mod or output folder where you want the files to go. After that it is done automatically and you wont see anything from that mod in your overwrite again.

 

Bodyslide needs an extra step with MO2.

 

Create a new mod in MO2 "Bodyslide Output" (or whatever).

Go to BS - settings - advanced - Output path - enter \Mods\MO2\Bodyslide Output.

Go to Bodyslide x64 in Modify Executables and point at your output folder.

 

The version of RaceMenu I'm using with 1.5.97 is v0.4.16. It's way down the list of 'Old files' on the Nexus.

Ok. I’ll try that.

34 minutes ago, NymphoElf said:

 

Try completely reinstalling RaceMenu and re-running FNIS/NEMESIS.

 

I still heavily recommend Crash Log Analyzer.

I have version 0.4.15 of RM. I can try installing another version of it and hopefully that will resolve my problem.