NV GECK crash

[Guest]

I have sometimes some random crashes, but I can work very very well with them. But now I tried to open a mod to see if I could figure how to do some "compatibility patch", I still don't know what it really means and I wanted to give a try.

But while ingame I can play that mod, in GECK it always crashes. It doesn't crash when I load that ESM, but it crashes when I open the cell, when it is rendering the cell modified from that mod: I see some elements appearing, after a while "GECK stopped to work". Checking for Errors with FNVEdit, it is completely clean (I had no doubts, it's a wonderful mod). I'm not playing with 4Gb patch, that mod is a bit laggy in my game so probably there are many things inside that cell, but still, it works perfectly in game. But maybe GECK works differently, could this happen for a lack of resources of the GECK? If it's so, is there some 64 bit patch for GECK or something else I could do with it?

I'm running GECK + NVSE and I enabled the multiple masters to load.

 

Thank you very much!

[Odessa]

Which mod, and which cell? I can try to see if it is the same.. which might help

 

I assume you don't click the mouse etc while the GECK is loading, because that often upsets her.. but you probably found that out already pretty quick

[Halstrom]

I've found through extensive research (mental pain) that having GECK open while launching the game is a bad idea, 99.9% of the time it's ok, but then if you get a CTD, I've found the chance the whole NV/NVSE/Extender/GECK install can get screwed completely and I have to reinstall things to get everything functional again.

[Guest]

Thank you for your answers. The mod is Freeside Open (the uncut, if you search by endorsements it's the most endorsed one). Someone asked me a patch for my mod because it doesn't work with it, I wanted to understand how to do that. I took a look and I saw they concentrated all the freeside worldspaces (like North for example) inside Freeside Central. When I open this cell, it crashes while it is rendering. No Odessa I never click while loading: since I have Windows 7, I've learnt it really loves crashing if I do something like that, with almost any programs

Another detail is this: it starts rendering, I see objects appearing, it crashes while it is doing this. The only idea I have is that one specific object crashes it, or it simply reaches some sort of top and can't render more (ingame everything works but I can see it's more laggy than normal, there are many npc for example). But in both cases I really wouldn't know what to do, a single object creating issues when if I take a look in FNVEdit I find a completely error clean mod?

PS that mod has a esm and a esp. And only FalloutNV as dependency. I can load multiple esm, I tried with and without the esp loaded, in both cases it crashes so I suppose it's something in the esm.

 

I wish everyone a nice End and a wonderful Start!

[Guest]

Mmmmh... noone really has a problem like that? crashing while opening a cell in the render window? awww I'm lost...

[ChancellorKremlin]

I used to have a problem like that with another mod, but I can't remember which nor how I fixed it, it was a long time ago. I'm away from my main PC at the moment so I can't check, but I'll get back to you when I have the chance to investigate. 

 

That being said, Freeside Open can be a little buggy at times. There is a part near the Kings School which tends to both CTD and slow the game to a crawl quite often when you pass near it ingame, so that could be the culprit. While I like the idea of Freeside Open, I think the engine itself doesn't support spaces that large which is probably why the devs cut it into little bits to begin with. Even on high end PC's, with NPC population mods, it is somewhat problematic.

 

I think it's more trouble than its worth.

[Odessa]

Sorry for being slow...

I just downloaded the mod and the GECK crashes after about 1 second when I try to open FreesideCentral cell of FreesideWorld, did the same with extender/PU and vanilla GECK.

 

You could try emailing the creator, since it may be something they have done and I'm sure they'd help you out in adding compatability for their mod.

[prideslayer]

try fnvedit, check for errors.

[Guest]

Prideslayer, I already checked it, it's completely error free! It's such a famous mod and modder, I was expecting it was error free

 

Well Odessa thank you very much for trying it, at least I know it's not a problem of mine. I'm wondering how the modder himself could have worked in that Freeside Central... I'll see if he answers me on the Nexus.

 

UPDATE: the modder seems unreachable. I dug around and I found that yes other people have the similar issue. But I found a couple of lines which now I can't understand, I'll try to learn better what they mean, maybe it's what I need.

 

"As for editing it, what you need to do is change the cell information in FNVEdit to this:

[CELL:0010D903] (in FreesideWorld "Freeside" [WRLD:0010BEEA] at 0,0)

Make a new plugin first, and copy the entries you want to change into the plugin, then change them to the above so they override them in the master file. This will move them to the right worldspace (luckily all the Freesides are the same map, so just dumping an object into them will still put them in the correct place)."

[Guest]

I would change the title, adding Freeside Open on it, since I found I'm not the only one having this issue, maybe one day I'll found clearly what it was crashing GECK but for now I'll stop here, I have too little informations.

But... as last update, to answer my first post...

I found a little red jalapeno pepper software, it changes GECK to 4 Gb, I remember this jalapeno pepper software since the times of FO3 but I didn't know people were using it on GECK too. I used it and I think my GECK is running at 4 Gb now, I noticed it crashes less when I'm working on worldspaces. But on the other side, it crashes exactly in the same way when I open that mod, so to answer my first post I suppose it's not because GECK can't handle the big contents there.

[Guest carywinton]

Gleaming from the "As for editing" in #9 post, I would say it is a Cell reference error you are getting dealing with the Havoc Geometry, this is why those values must be changed in order to load that cell. If the actual cells references had to be changed for X, Y, Z, etc. then it is no wonder they are hard to run when playing in it. It's never a good idea to mess with the "terrain" of the base game, that causes all kinds of wonky things to happen.

[Guest]

I... spent a long time in FNVEdit, reading uncomprehensible names and values, digging through them all... I found that CELL, I compared with vanilla... trying to figure the meaning, if there was a change that was popping something in my mind, but... didn't get it. It's bigger than me, I give up, unfortunately. Thank you everyone for the answers, I hope next time I'll have to figure how to make a patch it will be... how can I say... more linear

[Odessa]

What are you trying to achieve with the patch?

 

Someone might know a workaround

[Guest]

People use that Freeside mod because it's definetely nice. While it could be heavy for low computers (it lags a little on mine too), it's sooo charming having an entire Freeside in a single cell. But this of course breaks mods that changes worlds like Freeside North (i.e. some AWOP and NV Interiors doors to new cells etc.), and on top of that, my own lil quest mod. So people asked me to make a patch for it, I suppose I should simply move my NPCs and doors from a worldspace to another, in a separate optional ESP, to load after the two ESMs. But if I can't open it on GECK I suppose I'll have to give up...

 

While I don't know how to do it, I still "feel" it could be done on FNVEdit. I figure I could change the worldspace name in some ways, but I can't "align" things like a door if I don't see it in a render window, I doubt they would mantain the same coordinates since the worldspaces have different dimensions too. If this makes sense.

 

But... the modder isn't reachable and I don't know if this all deserves more investigation at this point. If there was Alice's Gryphon here, probably now he was telling you something like "' It's all her fancy, that: she's got no sorrow, you know". If this makes sense.

[Odessa]

You could reposition your NPCs/objects based on persistent references found in Freeside.

 

Doors are more awkward, alternatively for both: within the game find the position you want your object to be in the FreesideOpen. Type GetPos X (then Y... Z). Now do a Player.PlaceAtMe for your object, then keep trying SetPos on it until you get the exact coordinates you want it to be at, and write them down.

 

Now all you need is an IsModLoaded and the same SetPos commands in your mod. No need for a seperate .esp, since you found the coords with FreesideOpen loaded they will surely match up.

 

If it is impossible to make the doors look at all believably, you could use something else: a trap door, an activatable hole in a wall, talking to an NPC and then a FadeToBlack, using an exterior tent rather than interior.

[Guest]

If I understood correctly, to avoid a compatibilty patch on a new ESP you would do a IsModLoaded check that will MoveTo the NPCs in their current worldspace, if Freeside mod is loaded.

 

I can tell you I had issues with something like that, I arrived at the conclusion that packages of a moved NPC aren't good. The NPC in the new locations weren't doing what their packages were telling them, no matter if they had conditions like GetInCell, and it wasn't a matter of evp or what. Even evp in game or ResetAI, they were simply stick, like if they weren't belonging to the new place where I moved them. This concerns a moveto a new cell, not a moveto inside the same cell. It is something interesting, packages are still a mistery for me sometimes.

To explain with a simple example: NPC inside Cell A, has 2 sandbox packages. Sandbox A has GetinCell A as condition >>> the effect is sandboxing in Cell A. Sandbox B has Get In Cell B as condition, effect is sandboxing in Cell B. When you'll move it from A to B, he will get stuck, I don't know why, but as I said it's not a matter of re-evaluating package. If you disable/enable ingame, you should see that his current package is running, so I think he just get stuck for whatever reason. Anyway as I said it's a very interesting topic, but I think this is the reason why in many places in vanilla they make NPC licterally running from a place to another (I remember that in FO3) even if it was at the opposite of the map (while they could simply MoveTo them), my thoughts is that it was creating issues like the one I described.

 

But still this is a lovely solution I really didn't think about, I'll think more about it. There's only a thing that won't work with doors: if I move it, the yellow prism will remain in the old cell. I don't know if the yellow prism is movable too. I could replace a door with a scripted onactivate -> moveto, but in this case a new ID door on a separate esp would seem (in my opinion) a little more "clean".

[Odessa]

Packages are pretty frustrating. An alternative is to instead of doing a MoveTo on the NPCs, do it on an XMarker, then make them travel to it as in the vanilla game.

 

The problem with creating an additional compatability .esp is that whilst easier, however many times you specify it in however large print, and even if you detect it and show a message box in game, lots of people will either not download both (choosing one or the other), download both without OpenFreeside, or load them in the wrong order, then give up or complain when it doesn't work properly. As well as IsModLoaded, you can use GetModIndex with BuildRef to reference material in a mod without needing to have it as a requirement (or NX, but only if both mods require the NVSE extender and are so designed, so no help here), which I would personally recommend trying first.