SMP Head HPH or UBE

[StickyTicky]

Has anyone managed already to have a full replacer for vanilla NPCs with this mod 'baked in'? I would be grateful if one would share/upload it.

 

What's the procedure of making an NPC replacement with HPH together with this mod from scratch, btw? I know there is 'transfer video', but what if I want to make an NPC with more or less vanilla look, but with this mod supported?

Edited 17 hours ago by StickyTicky

[dafaq1]

5 hours ago, Predator-RJ said:

Hi, no idea why thats a new one, probably anothe mod adding some teeth or so is breaking ube.

Hmmm, I'm using HPH there, and also it only happen when I picked the SMP Head Facepart

[ggboy3]

7 hours ago, Predator-RJ said:

遗憾的是，即使有视频，在你那边也可能有所不同，你需要了解权重系统，或者知道如何查看和编辑从SMP头部复制到不同形状时出现的问题  ：（ ，我建议你尝试搜索一些关于SMP物品的服装转换视频，这些物品“相同”，但由于嘴部形状和孔洞的不同，仍然存在差异。

I have experience adding SMP physics to regular outfits. I can rig physics bones for clothes in 3ds Max with corresponding plugins, and create physical effects for SMP garments using XML physics templates. I’ve got basic modeling skills, just not super proficient yet. If you could make a full step-by-step tutorial, I’m confident I can fix this issue on my own.

[dafaq1]

4 hours ago, dafaq1 said:

Hmmm, I'm using HPH there, and also it only happen when I picked the SMP Head Facepart

Sorry false alarm, it's caused by a mod called https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/169581?tab=description true 3d mouth

 

[RenaSan]

11 hours ago, Predator-RJ said:

...but the sliders are the "MAIN" now, if you install that using the fomod option, so you probably didnt pick it in the fomod i believe? 

Looking good! but that jiggle looks too much, maybe you have Variable FPS (too much or too low)? try seetting FSMP mcm menu to the "quality" preset...

 

Man and here I was wondering left and right about those sliders, didn't even remember your mod had a FOMOD. Thanks for pointing that out I will try. First I thought it was a PPA thing, but that didn't have a FOMOD.

Also, honestly, I've been having issues with SMP since - forever. It always seems too strong no matter what I do. Actually decided that I'll take everything I learned about modding the last two months and start over from scratch. New install, less bloated modlist. Doing intensive testing for core systems I require in the game before doing anything else. 

Also probably going to switch back to SOS from TNG, only reason I switched was because I had an issue with SPID not assigning schlongs to NPCs and their underwear would clip through their armor.

 

As for anything related to the head, I've been having issues with the lips looking quite jarring when I run, like they're too jiggly. As you correctly pointed out, something is definitely happening. However I have quality set up and FPS is limited to 60, so it has to be something else.

New install will maybe shed some light on it. 

Edited 10 hours ago by RenaSan

[RenaSan]

9 hours ago, StickyTicky said:

Has anyone managed already to have a full replacer for vanilla NPCs with this mod 'baked in'? I would be grateful if one would share/upload it.

 

What's the procedure of making an NPC replacement with HPH together with this mod from scratch, btw? I know there is 'transfer video', but what if I want to make an NPC with more or less vanilla look, but with this mod supported?

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think you can do that without going through that process for every NPC, because of the way FaceGen and Head Nifs work in the game. 

 

Don't quote me on this but I believe that all head meshes in the game are PreGenerated. While the name 'FaceGen' might suggest that the meshes are generated on the fly based on a base mesh and sliders - that is not the case. All the NPC have a hardwired NIF 3D file that makes up their head. This mesh comes with its own 'weight painting' (I will explain this term later) to interact with other bones attached to actors. A bone is basically an invisible node that a vertex (part on a 3d mesh where the lines making up a polygon meet) can be 'attached to'. If the 'weight' of the attachment is 100, then if the bone moves the vertex will move along with it as if attached.

 

Usually games will attach all the face with 100% weight to the head bone, because duh, if you move your head 100% of your face moves along with it. Only once it gets down to the neck you'll want to attach to more bones, in this case the neck and clavicle bones. Basically anywhere where you have skin stretching when a joint or bone is moved, thats where you want to weight distribute to the bones in an appropriate way.

 

Now faces are a different thing, because in most games facial expressions are handled by morphs, not bones. Basically they will create copies of the head mesh, one copy for every expression morph target. Lets say you want the mouth to open. You have two choices: either you make a bone for the jaw and animate that bone for the movement - or you create a copy of the head and change the actual mesh to an open mouth mesh. Now because the meshes have the exact same number of vertexes you can morph between them. Meaning you can adjust the strength of how much you want to transform the default head to the open mouth head. And if you make a great number of those morphs then you can adjust how the face looks with sliders.

 

So if you want fearful expression you need to morph somewhat wider eyes, brows being drawn together, etc. You get the gist of it, it doesn't use bones.

 

But if you want physics, you need bones. Because the bones are what is being moved by the physics engine. One bone gets close to another bone and rather than ignore each other - with a physics engine they will react to one another. Displace one another basically. So when you see an object in game deform another object then its not actually the mesh interacting with each other, but its the bones interacting with each other.

 

SO - HERE'S WHERE MOST PEOPLE WANT TO START READING:

 

This mod adds SMP based bones that are specifically told to interact with the high poly head mesh, I think. So it doesn't actually really replace the high poly head mesh, it just adds smp bones and changes the weight painting for the head mesh that is used for character creation. FYI all those sliders are also morphs. So somewhere there's a mesh for each slider cranked all the way up and another mesh for the slider cranked all the way down. 

 

A high poly head mesh on an NPC using HPH wont know these bones exist. They know the neck bones and the head bone that come with the skeleton, that's it. So it's not a matter of replacing the head mesh, its a matter of connecting the head mesh vertexes to the bones added by this mod. Because the bones are there. I think as soon as you add this mod even the npc will have those bones - as long as they're using a HPH. 

 

What you need isn't the head, you need the weight painting. That's what you call the process of attaching vertexes to bones. It's called painting, because 100% attachment is red and it goes yellow, green, blue and then transparent the lower the weight is. So you end up with a very colorful process. 

 

And since this weight painting was performed on the high poly head, you cannot copy it to a standard head. Additionally the SMP bones are added for the HPH mesh only. Therefore the NPC needs to be using the high poly head. Then and only then can you copy the weight painting from this head onto the other head.

 

I repeat: You are not actually replacing the target head with this head. The head stays the same, you just replace the weight painting. 

 

There is, I think, a mod out there that replaces every NPCs head in the game with a High Poly Head version that is based on the vanilla head mesh. IF and only IF this author gives permission to make patches to their heads, then someone could work on patching all those heads to use this mods weight painting and make them SMP enabled.

 

Without permission by the mod authors that made the head mesh that you want to patch, you cannot officially upload it for licensing purposes. So even though I made about 5 or so patches for high poly head standalone followers, I cannot actually upload these patches for anyone else. Now of course someone could just do this, distribute the files anyway and then wash their hands clean. But most people wouldn't do that. Without respect, what would the modding community be?

 

And without permission the only way to do this is... sculpt and export your own high poly smp heads to replace the vanilla heads.

 

Hopefully this answer will suffice. 

Edited 10 hours ago by RenaSan

[Predator-RJ]

1 hour ago, RenaSan said:

 

Man and here I was wondering left and right about those sliders, didn't even remember your mod had a FOMOD. Thanks for pointing that out I will try. First I thought it was a PPA thing, but that didn't have a FOMOD.

Also, honestly, I've been having issues with SMP since - forever. It always seems too strong no matter what I do. Actually decided that I'll take everything I learned about modding the last two months and start over from scratch. New install, less bloated modlist. Doing intensive testing for core systems I require in the game before doing anything else. 

Also probably going to switch back to SOS from TNG, only reason I switched was because I had an issue with SPID not assigning schlongs to NPCs and their underwear would clip through their armor.

 

As for anything related to the head, I've been having issues with the lips looking quite jarring when I run, like they're too jiggly. As you correctly pointed out, something is definitely happening. However I have quality set up and FPS is limited to 60, so it has to be something else.

New install will maybe shed some light on it. 

XD, yeah the 3 TH sliders are for PPA, they have diferent configs to "activate" based on the size and how much is in ( TH 1 and 2 is the in and out effect TH 3 is used for size scaling), SOS as far i can tell works fine if you use the Baka patch ( at least worked fine when i tested), but TNG is better since the XML i made uses the actual mesh and not a virtual collision... but you can make my TNG xml work for SOS ; ) (rename to the SOS one and fix the name for mesh = done).... 
About the SMP yeah, there is something going on then, since the mouth is having too much jiggle, for me at least look like you still using the OLD FSMP somehow.... since the new one has the constraints fixed and that should not happen that much, but if you going to start again will probably resolve i hope. 

[Predator-RJ]

4 hours ago, ggboy3 said:

I have experience adding SMP physics to regular outfits. I can rig physics bones for clothes in 3ds Max with corresponding plugins, and create physical effects for SMP garments using XML physics templates. I’ve got basic modeling skills, just not super proficient yet. If you could make a full step-by-step tutorial, I’m confident I can fix this issue on my own.

Hi, if you have experince with SMP painting and rigging you should be abble to just open the head nif you made the transfer and see that some weights probably got corrupted in the trasnfer, look for weight colors out of place in the lip bones, or just have a second outfit studio opened and compare to the normal smp hph head.

[RenaSan]

1 hour ago, Predator-RJ said:

XD, yeah the 3 TH sliders are for PPA, they have diferent configs to "activate" based on the size and how much is in ( TH 1 and 2 is the in and out effect TH 3 is used for size scaling), SOS as far i can tell works fine if you use the Baka patch ( at least worked fine when i tested), but TNG is better since the XML i made uses the actual mesh and not a virtual collision... but you can make my TNG xml work for SOS ; ) (rename to the SOS one and fix the name for mesh = done).... 
About the SMP yeah, there is something going on then, since the mouth is having too much jiggle, for me at least look like you still using the OLD FSMP somehow.... since the new one has the constraints fixed and that should not happen that much, but if you going to start again will probably resolve i hope. 

 

Right, but I am using the latest FSMP, or I was. Doing a full reset. Maybe something was overriding the FSMP, but I am 100% sure I had the 3.0.2 version which was the absolute latest one. Not sure what happened, but fresh modlist will show. I'm going to take care of adding this head pretty early in the process to be able to test it without much else going on. 

 

Also thanks for letting me know what the different sliders do, I was going to either ask of try to find out myself. Since I plan to make my own presets. One thing I wish PPA had is assign specific animations to specific scenes. Or at least do a keyword + type selective application. That way I could make a different facial animation for normal mouth animations compared to scenes with the aggressive keyword. Though it may have it and I just don't know. I'd test it, but I don't have a working version of skyrim right now. 

[jeebah]

Is it ok to make and upload patches for this on nexus?

Bom trabalho

[Unknowing-e]

17 hours ago, StickyTicky said:

Has anyone managed already to have a full replacer for vanilla NPCs with this mod 'baked in'? I would be grateful if one would share/upload it.

 

What's the procedure of making an NPC replacement with HPH together with this mod from scratch, btw? I know there is 'transfer video', but what if I want to make an NPC with more or less vanilla look, but with this mod supported?

 

 

Currently working on something to automate HPH with SMP on NPCs. I am using synthesis mutagen to do all the heavy lifting. My pipeline is going thru Skylady and is tailor built for it. If manage to get it fully working, I'll share. Trying to iron out the kinks for this one mod. Full Random NPC pack. Its literally the last population mod out of 7. That I need to figure out why SMP lips just blow up. After that Ill clean it up and ship it here. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Unknowing-e

[Predator-RJ]

6 hours ago, jeebah said:

Is it ok to make and upload patches for this on nexus?

Bom trabalho

Hi, i posted the mod ONLY in  Lovers Lab so anything from it = only in Lovers Lab, thanks!