Female Feet - WIP

[loverslab987]

I assume, the race, mesh and texture handling of Skyrim is similar, if not identical to that of F3 and FONV. With the CK you will be able to specify new mesh and texture paths for new races, which you will be able to create, of course.

 

But judging from Phygit's and Thor's experience I also think that there will be the same limitations to the nifs as in F3/FONV. As soon as you set the SkinShaderProperty in the nifs in F3/FONV so that the game applies the correct lighting and whatnot for the skin, the texture paths specified in the nifs for the skin part are simply ignored and the game defaults to the texture paths specified for that race.

 

I didn't test this in every aspect, but at least these were my observations with some Fallout meshes, when altering the shader properties and texture paths in the nif.

 

 

BTW just a side note: I don't understand, why so many people (not in this thread) are assuming that the CK will have any impact on creating new meshes (or textures) for the game. Manipulating the existing 3D models or creating new ones and getting them to work in the game, is - as far as I understand it - only dependent on the possibility to import them into Blender / 3DS / Maya / C4D and exporting them correctly afterwards plus adjusting them with nifskope.

 

Of course, the CK will allow manipulating all the gameplay related functions in great detail and ease. But I seriously doubt that the CK will contain any detailed specification / documentation for the 3D meshes (or textures), which indeed would help the nifskope team and 3D modelling programs a lot.

[watshisface]

little preview,

 

still WIP but dont have alot of free time right now as its christmas. will be finishing them when i get a little more time.

[Phygit]

Nothing from aknot... His textures were god.

 

Yeah' date=' I sent him a PM a few days ago and never heard anything back from that either.

[/quote']

May be XunAmarox will do something. I hope.

 

It was a nightmare that I spent with the norms the first time around... to not only move the UV but also resize things... that's a texturing nightmare. Well, I'll just say that I'm not exactly too eager to go through that all over again so soon right now.

 

I'll wait until Caliente does a final modified version of the foot with the body so I don't have to end up redoing it yet again.

 

I have a lot of other things on the texture I need to change and if I spend all my time redoing the feet for new revisions repeatedly... I'm not going to get done what I really want to get done.

 

So for the time being, I'm still using the older version (I'll never use beast races anyways lol).

 

Someone else will probably do the hard stuff, and if they do maybe I can fix the seams or something since that's easy for me. The hard thing is the colors on the norm... god, that's a nightmare...

 

Maybe it won't be as hard as I'm imagining, I dunno. I haven't even looked at it yet.

 

...I just took a look. Oh my god.. the entire shape changed! That would be pure and utter hell! >_<

 

Hi Xun...

 

I see the problem with the leg-connection (relative to normal/texture seams)... I should be able to fix that perfectly... it'll make the outside edges of the foot (shin part) mapping move in towards the center a bit (to make it exactly the same size/scale as the leg opening).

 

The other seams are going to be a bit more troubling, but I'll look at those too. I kinda hate changing the uv-mapping (yet) again, but a) the leg-opening fix shouldn't really cause any problems (and should make it possible to easily completely eliminate any seam there) and noone's currently spitting out v2.0 textures (yet).

 

[XunAmarox]

The problem isn't the leg connecting. The problem is that when you bake norms for the foot, they will not match the same colors as the body. So then you have to try to bake both the foot and the body and blend, but when you do that, it looks completely horrible because that completely screws a normal map completely. So what you are resorted to is coloring it manually. The reason for this is because the original norm was baked from a high poly mesh and has a great deal of detail that baking the low poly mesh would not. The only way around it would be to take a super high poly mesh and conforming it to the same UV pattern then baking a norm from that, but that... that's a hell of a lot of work for a foot texture.

 

What would have been ideal is just taking the original UV that you used for the one that wasn't compatible with beast races, then just moving it to the top most corners of the UV and shrinking the size of it as much as needed. That way, it would simply be resizing the the previous texture work to match the new size and position, rather than having to completely scrap it and start over because the entire shape has changed.

 

...but, that just makes the lives of texture artists easier and less frustrating.

 

If you're going to make the UV better or something, then I'm sure someone will do it at some point.

 

As for me, like I say, I'm waiting until there's a final version for whatever body I'm going to use, because I'm not going to retexture it over and over with changing UV's every time. That's just insane.

[DorkDiva]

I know it sounds kind of silly, but have you tried to model the lines of the joints of the toes/knuckles of them, have them raised, and same for the bottoms of the feet, have some curves and maybe some wrinkles or rough spots, to add more depth and detail. The norm colors may change more to your liking then. I did that on a couple meshes I made for Oblivion, it kind of made a difference. IDK, just throwing an idea out there.

[XSWZAQ]

But judging from Phygit's and Thor's experience I also think that there will be the same limitations to the nifs as in F3/FONV. As soon as you set the SkinShaderProperty in the nifs in F3/FONV so that the game applies the correct lighting and whatnot for the skin' date=' the texture paths specified in the nifs for the skin part are simply ignored and the game defaults to the texture paths specified for that race.

BTW just a side note: I don't understand, why so many people (not in this thread) are assuming that the CK will have any impact on creating new meshes (or textures) for the game. Manipulating the existing 3D models or creating new ones and getting them to work in the game, is - as far as I understand it - only dependent on the possibility to import them into Blender / 3DS / Maya / C4D and exporting them correctly afterwards plus adjusting them with nifskope.

 

Of course, the CK will allow manipulating all the gameplay related functions in great detail and ease. But I seriously doubt that the CK will contain any detailed specification / documentation for the 3D meshes (or textures), which indeed would help the nifskope team and 3D modelling programs a lot.

[/quote']

I never thought that was a bad thing though, saves on having multiple copies of the same exact mesh.

 

lol yea, I get a mental facepalm everytime I see someone say something to that effect about texture mods and stuff on the BSF and nexus.

 

 

[Phygit]

The problem isn't the leg connecting. The problem is that when you bake norms for the foot' date=' they will not match the same colors as the body. So then you have to try to bake both the foot and the body and blend, but when you do that, it looks completely horrible because that completely screws a normal map completely. So what you are resorted to is coloring it manually. The reason for this is because the original norm was baked from a high poly mesh and has a great deal of detail that baking the low poly mesh would not. The only way around it would be to take a super high poly mesh and conforming it to the same UV pattern then baking a norm from that, but that... that's a hell of a lot of work for a foot texture.

[/quote']

 

I understand all of the above, but a _very_ large part of the colors not matching up had to do with the leg-opening at the bottom of the leg mesh and leg-opening at the top of the foot mesh not being lined up (or scaled the same).

 

Once those uv-vertices are lined up, you get the same (base) colors. As for differences due to details added to the body mesh/norms (ie. from Zbrush or whatever is used when generating that)... there shouldn't really be any detail at that connection (noone's doing skin-pores in normal maps ). So, you (not you, in particular) should be able to use a newly rendered normal map of the body (or at least a portion of it from the end of the leg) as a base to hide the seam there.

 

 

...As for me' date=' like I say, I'm waiting until there's a final version for whatever body I'm going to use, because I'm not going to retexture it over and over with changing UV's every time. That's just insane.

[/quote']

 

I get the feeling that I somehow got you riled up... that was not my intention. Just for the record, the UVs have changed once so far - due to an oversight on my part. They are now going to change a second time - to help eliminate the foot/leg seam. The fact that they ever changed at all is unfortunate (and certainly not my intention) - I just don't want others thinking that the UV's are changing "every time" - that would be insane.

 

Cheers.

[watshisface]

let me know when you re-release the feet mesh with the new uv please, ive just about finished the textures but if its going to change i wont release anything yet so i can do fix them first i dont mind them changing, its all part of texturing and mesh making so its to be expected. plus some of us texturers enjoy the work we do.

[XunAmarox]

Ah, I'm not riled up or anything. I'm just lazy when it comes to redoing things, and I don't have a lot of time. That's why I sorta opt-out of redoing things I already did. Since, well... I probably won't play Skyrim much longer anyways and I don't even play beast races myself. xD

 

So' date=' you (not you, in particular) should be able to use a newly rendered normal map of the body (or at least a portion of it from the end of the leg) as a base to hide the seam there.[/quote']

 

I dunno what you're rendering in, but the norms I render are a completely different (craptastic) color.

 

Here, let me show you the problem...

 

Here is the baked norm from Blender:

 

 

 

Here's the original (ignore feet):

 

 

 

As far as blending goes, it's impossible because what is pink changes to green, what is orange changes to blue, green to pink, yellow to blue, pink to yellow, pink to green, blue to orange, green to purple.... you get the idea.

[Phygit]

Ah' date=' I'm not riled up or anything. I'm just lazy when it comes to redoing things, and I don't have a lot of time. That's why I sorta opt-out of redoing things I already did. Since, well... I probably won't play Skyrim much longer anyways and I don't even play beast races myself. xD

 

So, you (not you, in particular) should be able to use a newly rendered normal map of the body (or at least a portion of it from the end of the leg) as a base to hide the seam there.

 

I dunno what you're rendering in, but the norms I render are a completely different (craptastic) color.

 

Here, let me show you the problem...

 

Here is the baked norm from Blender:

 

 

 

Here's the original (ignore feet):

 

 

 

As far as blending goes, it's impossible because what is pink changes to green, what is orange changes to blue, green to pink, yellow to blue, pink to yellow, pink to green, blue to orange, green to purple.... you get the idea.

 

Ahh - I see your problem... I use Cinema 4D to model and render normal maps. I have never tried rendering them in Blender, but... your channels are swapped around. See if there's any options to "Flip X" or similar (you may need to swap more than one axis). In Cinema 4D, I have to flip the X axis.

 

[Phygit]

Here's the options in Cinema 4D (I have the mesh split in half, currently).

[XunAmarox]

Oh...... I just realized you distribute some norms with your feet. That makes things 99% easier.

 

Well, lemme know when you put up the last UV change and I'll texture it real quick. The norm is the only real hard part, and if it's already that decent then just smudging it into submission in 3d shouldn't be a problem.

[Phygit]

Oh...... I just realized you distribute some norms with your feet. That makes things 99% easier.

 

Well' date=' lemme know when you put up the last UV change and I'll texture it real quick. The norm is the only real hard part, and if it's already that decent then just smudging it into submission in 3d shouldn't be a problem.

[/quote']

 

Ahh... I was confused why you were having such extreme issues (presumably with the norms I included..) - it's all clear now - I can't imagine trying to do the manual paint-by-hand thing that you ended up doing... what a nightmare, indeed.

 

Having said that - the norms I include (with both v1.0 and v2.0) are still not as good as they can be (because of scaling issues combined with over/sub-sampling)... the next (final) uv-mapping should remedy that.

[Phygit]

Just for visual aid... below is a preview of normals rendered with the (upcoming) v3.0 uv-mapping. The top part is the lower portion of the leg, the bottom is the foot... where it says "Seam" is where the seam between the two is (or will no longer be! ).

 

EDIT: and just for completeness, the second image shows the older (but most recent) v2.0+ mapping. Note that the scaling is different along the seam, which is normally taken care of by the nature of how UVs work in general, but due to sub-pixel sampling, you can still get differences (ie. a visible seam). Not shown here, but the uv-vertices are also not well aligned (even if they were scaled the same).

[Phygit]

I'm going to try to fix the seam that goes down the inside of the ankle (left/right edges of the mapping) similarly, but the split between the top/bottom of the foot (and all the toes) will be near impossible to get perfect.

[watshisface]

I'm going to try to fix the seam that goes down the inside of the ankle (left/right edges of the mapping) similarly' date=' but the split between the top/bottom of the foot (and all the toes) will be near impossible to get perfect.

[/quote']

 

i know your pain. lol

 

it will easy to adjust the textures from the looks of that wip v.3

 

[Phygit]

I'm going to try to fix the seam that goes down the inside of the ankle (left/right edges of the mapping) similarly' date=' but the split between the top/bottom of the foot (and all the toes) will be near impossible to get perfect.

[/quote']

 

i know your pain. lol

 

it will easy to adjust the textures from the looks of that wip v.3

 

 

Yeah (so far, at least), I've only adjusted that top edge. The upper sides may also change a bit, but only to get the better aligned as well.

 

With the new mapping (assuming you're not using a 3D-paint), you'd actually be able to 2D 'paint the foot texture' map, down at (as a continuation of) the bottom of the leg (similar to how I show them in those images) and then just clip the foot texture (plus several pixels border of the leg) and move it up to where it needs to be on the template (you should also leave a several pixel border of the foot map down at the bottom of the leg-opening).

[Phygit]

Update:

 

Since I'm changing the UV-mapping, I went ahead and made another change that I'd been wanting to do - might as well get it all done at one time.

 

That change is... I moved a row of polys from the 'sole' area, to the upper-foot area of the uv-mapping. This effectively moves the sole/foot seam down, more towards the sole of the foot (and about 3/4 down on the toes, instead of half-way). This should help make any seams left there less visible/obvious.

 

So, in total:

 

• the foot/leg connection should now be seamless (the normal map will be)
  
• I did a similar fix for the seam the goes down the inside of the ankle.
  
• the toes had to be spread apart some to make room for another row of polys
  
• I didn't change the layout/uvs of the toenails, but I did slide them over a bit.
  

 

...now that I have all that sorted out, I still need to go back and rework all the mesh/nif stuff. I'm going to be busy most of the day tomorrow (erm, today), but I might work on it more afterwards.

[watshisface]

Update:

I moved a row of polys from the 'sole' area' date=' to the upper-foot area of the uv-mapping. This effectively moves the sole/foot seam down, more towards the sole of the foot (and about 3/4 down on the toes, instead of half-way). This should help make any seams left there less visible/obvious.

 

[/quote']

 

that will be greatly appreciated, its going to be nice for the sole of the foot to be a little less overbearing on the appearance of the feet

 

[aknot]

Last feet version is a lot easier to adjust for CBBE, but still some border lines a bit visible.

And looks like it's not only texture problem (even paint it all without shadows -just fill with one color - brings some visible border)

its not omg but anyway. I'm not very flexible with ZBRUSH

so i paint normals in ZBRUSH and photoshop. and about 3 px blur on borders.

wondering about hands. They use extra normals for older skin. Hope that feets not.

Oh! And hi everybody! i'm new here. Thanks to Phygit

And Awesome work by the way!

[Murandus]

Forgive me if this has already been asked, but are there plans to, or is there, a version compatible with Xenius's Character Expansion?

[Phygit]

Forgive me if this has already been asked' date=' but are there plans to, or is there, a version compatible with Xenius's Character Expansion?

[/quote']

 

I'm not aware of one... you'd need to ask the creator of that expansion (or someone else may do one).

[Phygit]

FemFeet v3.0 Update

 

This update includes the final UV-mapping changes (promise)... with that in mind...

 

The uv-mapping has changed with this version (for the last time)...textures designed for the v2.0+ feet will need to be adjusted.

 

...with that out of the way, I decided that since the UVs were changing anyway, I'd go ahead and make a few other adjustments...

 

• UV-mapping seam between the feet -> shins can now be easily hidden.
  
• UV-mapping seam that runs down the inside of the foot/ankle can also now be easily hidden.
  
• Adjusted the UV-mapping seam between the sole and upper foot (the one that splits every toe) so that it's lower on the foot/toes... it's still difficult to hide that seam without a 3D Paint program, but it's less obvious now.
  
• Moved a polygon-row of the toenail underside UV-mapping to the top-side.
  
• Split the underside toenail mapping from the top-side and enlarged and straightened the nail mapping.
  
• The 'heavy' (_1) foot shape was tweeked somewhat.
  
• Wedding Dress sandals were added to this release (NOTE: there is a known issue when your character is set to something between Light and Heavy weight settings (the bottom of the sandals get scrambled). I will try to fix this in a future (mesh/.nif only) update).
  

 

Cheers.

[watshisface]

FemFeet v3.0 Update

 

This update includes the final UV-mapping changes (promise)... with that in mind...

 

The uv-mapping has changed with this version (for the last time)...textures designed for the v2.0+ feet will need to be adjusted.

 

...with that out of the way' date=' I decided that since the UVs were changing anyway, I'd go ahead and make a few other adjustments...

 

[list']

[*]UV-mapping seam between the feet -> shins can now be easily hidden.

[*]UV-mapping seam that runs down the inside of the foot/ankle can also now be easily hidden.

[*]Adjusted the UV-mapping seam between the sole and upper foot (the one that splits every toe) so that it's lower on the foot/toes... it's still difficult to hide that seam without a 3D Paint program, but it's less obvious now.

[*]Moved a polygon-row of the toenail underside UV-mapping to the top-side.

[*]Split the underside toenail mapping from the top-side and enlarged and straightened the nail mapping.

[*]The 'heavy' (_1) foot shape was tweeked somewhat.

[*]Wedding Dress sandals were added to this release (NOTE: there is a known issue when your character is set to something between Light and Heavy weight settings (the bottom of the sandals get scrambled). I will try to fix this in a future (mesh/.nif only) update).

 

Cheers.

 

cheers phygit

thank you very much for finalising the uv mesh. can start completing textures now

[baimh2009]

looking great btw!