Binding

[Lazy Palm]

56 minutes ago, Tetras66 said:

Sounds good! You could choose to develop that option that remembers them in the future, but the first version wouldn't require it, so should be nice and simple?

Seems like that would be the case!  I would assume the vast majority of people will just  choose the leave alone / default flag anyway.

[834159672]

Just a few issues I noticed, may have already been mentioned / exclusive to me, idk:

 

-After a while (not sure what causes it), the action key gets stuck with furniture selection, even when that debug option is disabled. This happens on controller, although the keybind has the same result

-When Dom-managed, the player can't spend points to modify rules. I don't think that should be the case as there are already mcm options handling points

-Sometimes the Dom gets lost / stuck far away, maybe in an idle pose, perhaps forcegreet or talking to them is always preferred to avoid that

-Punishments are added when selecting things like the word-wall in the mcm. Not too big of a deal because it can just be removed in debug

 

An idea:

 

-The problem with furniture is that 99% of the time I'm not near it. During an event the dom could select a piece of DD or ZAP furniture at random for you to place if a piece of furniture isn't already nearby. Then all you have to do is Press the action key to confirm the furniture position and rotation. This makes placing furniture much easier and can happen anywhere. If in a crowded area, perhaps there is a condition that you have to be seen by X number of people (or some large amount of time that gets reduced by being seen) to incentivize not hiding it in some random corner.

[DonQuiWho]

2 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

 

Don't even worry about it.  I love a wall of text.  You bring up a lot of good points, but I did not provide enough detail to start with.

 

So my plan (and it is actually already working in a dev build) is to basically do what @Anunya suggested a few posts back.  Which I guess DF and SLTR already do, which is good to hear.

 

1) binding turns on a rule, say Always Gagged

2) it looks for a gag, and equips one if not found.  If one is there, by default, it leaves it be and considers this mission accomplished.

3) it will at some interval look at rules and how stuff is equipped, if it finds Always Gagged and the slot is empty at that point, it will add one.  This should cover escapes, other mods removing, etc.

4) when the rule ends, it will pull it off ONLY if binding equipped it, otherwise it leaves it be.

 

Binding will never get grumpy from another mod removing something though, it will just move on.  I might figure out some kind of player escape feedback.

 

My question was more at that leave it alone point, I figured some people might like the flexibly choosing if the mod respects those other mods equips or wants to override it.

 

Sorry I should have lead with this 🤣

 

 

OK...ish 

 

Not meaning to be difficult.  More just curious really, as I'm not clear about the, let's call it 'reverse', handling

 

I get removing only what you/your mod added.  I get your not adding something over what is already there. 

 

But how do you then deal with the situation where the Binding Rule has already legitimately added a gag, or further restraints, into empty slots, that rule is still in force, the restraints still extant, and another mod then wants to add those in the same slot?   

 

Like, say, one of Cursed Loot's 'thoroughly bind up the PC and dump her in the wilderness in every sort of restraint imaginable' extreme experiences.  Some of those mini quests have staged removal sequences. 

 

How do you see those getting handled by Binding has already filled the slot(s) involved?  Can you change the restraint in that slot, if different', for the one that the other mod would add, and also its 'ownership', so that what is then equipped, even if the same form of restraint. is at simplest, 'Not a 'Binding' one'?

 

DQW

 

 

 

[Raine_Hyd]

As I mentioned before with hoods and headslide, the leather one "explodes" the screen and just warps and makes you unable to see. it's a known issue that hasn't been fixed.
Getting to the point, is there an option to choose what kind of hood you want to equip because all I see is enable/disable hood?

[Lazy Palm]

4 hours ago, 834159672 said:

After a while (not sure what causes it), the action key gets stuck with furniture selection, even when that debug option is disabled. This happens on controller, although the keybind has the same result

 

I will take a look at this!  You using a xbox controller or generic controller with a steam map, or other?

 

4 hours ago, 834159672 said:

-When Dom-managed, the player can't spend points to modify rules. I don't think that should be the case as there are already mcm options handling points

 

Right when it is dom managed you can use points to like/dislike/extend rules, but I didn't set anything up to manage them directly.  I figured adding/removing them probably was not really in the spirit of the dom controlling them.  Is that part not working?  Or just pointing out that is too restrictive?

 

4 hours ago, 834159672 said:

Sometimes the Dom gets lost / stuck far away, maybe in an idle pose, perhaps forcegreet or talking to them is always preferred to avoid that

Remember the event that was running when they seemed to wander off by chance?

 

4 hours ago, 834159672 said:

Punishments are added when selecting things like the word-wall in the mcm. Not too big of a deal because it can just be removed in debug

 

From turning on the checkbox in the MCM??

 

4 hours ago, 834159672 said:

-The problem with furniture is that 99% of the time I'm not near it. During an event the dom could select a piece of DD or ZAP furniture at random for you to place if a piece of furniture isn't already nearby. Then all you have to do is Press the action key to confirm the furniture position and rotation. This makes placing furniture much easier and can happen anywhere. If in a crowded area, perhaps there is a condition that you have to be seen by X number of people (or some large amount of time that gets reduced by being seen) to incentivize not hiding it in some random corner.

 

I can for sure add this.  I spawn furniture for the camping event, so not that much of a stretch logically for other events to do it too.  I would for sure have an MCM option this, but doable.

[Lazy Palm]

4 hours ago, DonQuiWho said:

 

OK...ish 

 

Not meaning to be difficult.  More just curious really, as I'm not clear about the, let's call it 'reverse', handling

 

I get removing only what you/your mod added.  I get your not adding something over what is already there. 

 

But how do you then deal with the situation where the Binding Rule has already legitimately added a gag, or further restraints, into empty slots, that rule is still in force, the restraints still extant, and another mod then wants to add those in the same slot?   

 

Like, say, one of Cursed Loot's 'thoroughly bind up the PC and dump her in the wilderness in every sort of restraint imaginable' extreme experiences.  Some of those mini quests have staged removal sequences. 

 

How do you see those getting handled by Binding has already filled the slot(s) involved?  Can you change the restraint in that slot, if different', for the one that the other mod would add, and also its 'ownership', so that what is then equipped, even if the same form of restraint. is at simplest, 'Not a 'Binding' one'?

 

DQW

 

 

 

 

This one kind of makes my brain hurt 🤣

 

I guess I don't have a great answer other than it just making sense to let a mod that is actively equipping for some quest/event to have the steering wheel and let it unequip gear put on by this mod (which the DD item equip method it uses will happily do since I don't protect items).  Again, hoping that it would un-equip after it is completed and then have the cycling fix process here put back on the original items (stored in memory even if unequipped and destroyed) after.  And even better if that mod would send a DHLP suspend event to halt this mod until it was finished.

 

Honestly, I will have to ponder this one some more.  Good hypotheticals today btw.  I feel like I have been trying to defend a weak dissertation 🙂

 

Edited November 4, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Lazy Palm]

2 hours ago, Raine_Hyd said:

As I mentioned before with hoods and headslide, the leather one "explodes" the screen and just warps and makes you unable to see. it's a known issue that hasn't been fixed.
Getting to the point, is there an option to choose what kind of hood you want to equip because all I see is enable/disable hood?

 

Crap.  My bad.  I will get blindfolds and hood drop-downs added to the bondage custom screen before my next release.  Adding blindfolds and hoods to the rules pool so I bumped into this this yesterday also.  The DD leather one would not equip on top of a gag or blindfold and wanted to try other options, and could not change the default either...

[Cieris]

18 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

I do most of my testing without other higher level bondage type mods (other than the basic frameworks DD, ZAP, SexLab, SLA).  I feel like I see problems I am creating more clearly that way.  The downside is the interactions with other mods.  I seem to be missing quite a few. I need to do more extensive testing on my other computer, but it always cuts into my building time 😀

 

I agree that a clean testing environment is the most important. You'll never know what combination of mods other users have installed, so just leave the bug reporting and compatibility suggestions to your mod users.

 

18 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

Sure!  This should actually be no problem at all. Binding stores all the items in variables in a script and can happily re-equip.  There is already a function for rule changes that does most of this task.  I will get something working!

 

Awesome! For a bit more context, since Binding uses generic DD items without quest item or block generic tags, other DD mods can strip them at any time. I think this is fine if the restraints are equipped afterwards. It makes sense thematically too - "Oh you finally got those quest restraints off? Here, I'll put these back on per your rules".

[Cieris]

10 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

1) binding turns on a rule, say Always Gagged

2) it looks for a gag, and equips one if not found.  If one is there, by default, it leaves it be and considers this mission accomplished.

3) it will at some interval look at rules and how stuff is equipped, if it finds Always Gagged and the slot is empty at that point, it will add one.  This should cover escapes, other mods removing, etc.

4) when the rule ends, it will pull it off ONLY if binding equipped it, otherwise it leaves it be.

 

I just caught up with the discussion, there are many good comments. I agree that this is the best way to handle already equipped devices. For events, Binding will unequip things like gags or chastity belts so I guess eventually, most of the generic devices will be replaced with those preferred by the mod. Currently, Binding doesn't try to unequip devices with quest item or block generic tags, though I think block generic might be fine to remove.

 

4 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

I guess I don't have a great answer other than it just making sense to let a mod that is actively equipping for some quest/event to have the steering wheel and let it unequip gear put on by this mod (which the DD item equip method it uses will happily do since I don't protect items).  Again, hoping that it would un-equip after it is completed and then have the cycling fix process here put back on the original items (stored in memory even if unequipped and destroyed) after.  And even better if that mod would send a DHLP suspend event to halt this mod until it was finished.

 

This is similar to the situation I mentioned before. Other DD mods will readily remove generic restraints including those equipped by Binding. It shouldn't be a problem as long the restraints are re-equipped when the other mod's devices are removed. I guess the question remains - when does Binding trigger a check of devices and how often? Some mods might un-equip all generic devices and only equip a few of their own, Binding could then run a check and re-equip any of the saved slots that are not taken.

[DonQuiWho]

9 hours ago, Lazy Palm said:

 

This one kind of makes my brain hurt 🤣

 

I guess I don't have a great answer other than it just making sense to let a mod that is actively equipping for some quest/event to have the steering wheel and let it unequip gear put on by this mod (which the DD item equip method it uses will happily do since I don't protect items).  Again, hoping that it would un-equip after it is completed and then have the cycling fix process here put back on the original items (stored in memory even if unequipped and destroyed) after.  And even better if that mod would send a DHLP suspend event to halt this mod until it was finished.

 

Honestly, I will have to ponder this one some more.  Good hypotheticals today btw.  I feel like I have been trying to defend a weak dissertation 🙂

 

 

That sounds even more OK..ish ☺️

 

And if only DHLP Suspend events, as I understand them, were universal in their application, a lot of time and angst would probably be avoided by everyone

 

BTW, you're too kind, though.  I'm no techie.  If I were I'd try to help on that sort of solution, but I'm definitely limited to just seeing potential issues/logical conundrums, questioning those, and then hopefully contributing something constructive about them.   Or, when using a mod that's doing something squiff, if the author has included the .psc files, tracking down where the issue is and drawing it to their attention. 

 

Both of those are probably really more of an irritating annoyance than anything else 🙄😆

 

Keep going tho.  I'm sure that, with the added help of those here who do know what they're doing, you'll get there 🙂

 

DQW

 

 

[Lazy Palm]

6 hours ago, Cieris said:

Currently, Binding doesn't try to unequip devices with quest item or block generic tags, though I think block generic might be fine to remove.

 

Yeah, this is the one I was bumping into.  It was reported that SLUTS was having issues with binding removing stuff.  So either:

• SLUTS is not marking items to not be removed and is giving demerits when they are removed, or
• Because I wanted binding to work with ZAP and DD (either/or) the ZAP libraries are ripping off quest items when a user has a ZAP item as favorite.  I like some of the collars in ZAP myself.  And this is may be because I have some keyword checks gated behind some soft dependency check if/then logic for DD, since it would require the mod to tell ZAP to leave DD quest/blocking items alone.  Also, I might need to use SKSE HasKeywordString in case the user does not have DD installed (I am pretty sure that works like I am thinking).

Neither is ideal, I can fix the 2nd by deprecating ZAP, fixing some of my soft dependency logic, or having binding just leaving anything equipped alone.  And just leaving everything alone would fix the potential first issue also, or at least guard against it.  I would have to look at the SLUTS code to see for sure, but I am guessing it is probably more the 2nd.

 

6 hours ago, Cieris said:

This is similar to the situation I mentioned before. Other DD mods will readily remove generic restraints including those equipped by Binding. It shouldn't be a problem as long the restraints are re-equipped when the other mod's devices are removed. I guess the question remains - when does Binding trigger a check of devices and how often? Some mods might un-equip all generic devices and only equip a few of their own, Binding could then run a check and re-equip any of the saved slots that are not taken.

 

I will have to figure out exactly the frequency to run that check, but I am guessing 1, 2, or 4 times a game hour would not be that big of a script load (just slot checks for each of the active rules).  And probably a dialogue option like you suggested also.  I might also be able to be able to catch changes at the equip/unequip events for the player, and have it just run the checks when it knows changes have taken place and to look at this specific slot.

 

Thanks for all the feedback!  Glad to know this should be a relatively safe path to follow.  Even if there are a few ledges I need to watch for 🙂

Edited November 4, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Lazy Palm]

1 hour ago, DonQuiWho said:

That sounds even more OK..ish ☺️

 

And if only DHLP Suspend events, as I understand them, were universal in their application, a lot of time and angst would probably be avoided by everyone

 

BTW, you're too kind, though.  I'm no techie.  If I were I'd try to help on that sort of solution, but I'm definitely limited to just seeing potential issues/logical conundrums, questioning those, and then hopefully contributing something constructive about them.   Or, when using a mod that's doing something squiff, if the author has included the .psc files, tracking down where the issue is and drawing it to their attention. 

 

Both of those are probably really more of an irritating annoyance than anything else 🙄😆

 

Keep going tho.  I'm sure that, with the added help of those here who do know what they're doing, you'll get there 🙂

 

DQW

 

This has been great feedback and I appreciate the time you put into thinking it through and writing it down.  Gave me a lot of new stuff to think about. 

 

Hopefully I can get this mod into some state where it plays well enough with others that users are not trying to figure where it is OK to run it.  This kind of information, no matter how challenging it might be, is the best way to make it happen!

 

Looking forward to my next logical puzzle test!!

[Lenore]

I also do not mod, so I don't know the inner workings 'but' .. couldn't it be set up, for SLUTS, that if the PC was going to do a sluts run they could tell the master/mistress and the items they have on could be temp removed until the run was over? Which, then of course, the PC would go back to the master/mistress and tell them they finished and therefore ready for things to be equipped? I mean perhaps, for SLUTS it could even be set up as a task the PC might do? As for DCL .. I honestly wouldn't use that myself, on top of Binding.  But I do usually have SLUTS in my mod list since Lola usually works with that mod.

[Lazy Palm]

14 minutes ago, Lenore said:

I also do not mod, so I don't know the inner workings 'but' .. couldn't it be set up, for SLUTS, that if the PC was going to do a sluts run they could tell the master/mistress and the items they have on could be temp removed until the run was over? Which, then of course, the PC would go back to the master/mistress and tell them they finished and therefore ready for things to be equipped? I mean perhaps, for SLUTS it could even be set up as a task the PC might do? As for DCL .. I honestly wouldn't use that myself, on top of Binding.  But I do usually have SLUTS in my mod list since Lola usually works with that mod.

 

Even if I can do all of the fixes, something like this might be fun just to have for some of the more common mods.  Especially if SLUTS has any metrics type variables to track number of runs.  So you ask, and when you come back, the mod checks to see if you did the run, and punishes accordingly if you failed to 🙂

[Lenore]

lol, yes that would be great!

[Raine_Hyd]

On 11/3/2024 at 9:24 PM, Lazy Palm said:

 

Crap.  My bad.  I will get blindfolds and hood drop-downs added to the bondage custom screen before my next release.  Adding blindfolds and hoods to the rules pool so I bumped into this this yesterday also.  The DD leather one would not equip on top of a gag or blindfold and wanted to try other options, and could not change the default either...

Yeah it's completely on the end of headslide (or devious headslide) not your end. So I'm not really expecting you to try and fix it. just figured I'd raise awareness since it gets annoying and one of the punishments. Idk which one, uses that hood. Which afaik can't be disabled.

As someone mentioned, just use the basic mods you use to test. Let others report and go from there. Everyone's mod list is different so you can't expect to test it all, just go off feedback you are given.

Edited November 5, 2024 by Raine_Hyd

[834159672]

On 11/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lazy Palm said:

You using a xbox controller or generic controller with a steam map

xbox. This is most debilitating since the normal action key becomes inaccessible. Keyboard binding doesn't circumvent it.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lazy Palm said:

Is that part not working?  Or just pointing out that is too restrictive?

Sorry,  just pointing out it might be too restrictive, specifically hands always bound. Dom-managed is enjoyable otherwise because the rule is unknown. Perhaps similar to the gag, you can have the option to have hands temporarily freed. I'm think that option is already there, but they always refuse regardless of points.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lazy Palm said:

the event that was running

I think it happens when they point at the ground. Sometimes it happens at the same time a new location is entered / fast travel. Might not be a bug? I just remember sometimes the follower isn't there and I have to go find them, maybe I'm just dumb and don't play close enough attention to commands lol.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lazy Palm said:

From turning on the checkbox

Yes.

 

On 11/3/2024 at 7:14 PM, Lazy Palm said:

I can for sure add this

Sweet! The alternatives I can think of are manually placing furniture throughout skyrim at the start of a game or using mods that add furniture which might have cell conflicts (Open Cities is usually a problem). Placing furniture on the spot that persists the rest of a playthrough might alleviate both.

[Raine_Hyd]

Another thing I noticed with hoods was 1 of the punishments (I guess heavy bondage Idk) where you're cuffed and bound and have to stay there until you're unbound automatically puts on the hood even if you have it turned off in the heavy bondage settings. Idk if that's affected by something or not.

[Lazy Palm]

On 11/5/2024 at 8:34 PM, 834159672 said:

xbox. This is most debilitating since the normal action key becomes inaccessible. Keyboard binding doesn't circumvent it.

 

Sorry,  just pointing out it might be too restrictive, specifically hands always bound. Dom-managed is enjoyable otherwise because the rule is unknown. Perhaps similar to the gag, you can have the option to have hands temporarily freed. I'm think that option is already there, but they always refuse regardless of points.

 

I think it happens when they point at the ground. Sometimes it happens at the same time a new location is entered / fast travel. Might not be a bug? I just remember sometimes the follower isn't there and I have to go find them, maybe I'm just dumb and don't play close enough attention to commands lol.

 

Yes.

 

Sweet! The alternatives I can think of are manually placing furniture throughout skyrim at the start of a game or using mods that add furniture which might have cell conflicts (Open Cities is usually a problem). Placing furniture on the spot that persists the rest of a playthrough might alleviate both.

 

I will check this stuff out.  Thanks for the info!  I think the checkbox problem is because I am tracking the data all the and turning it on causes it to act on it, but I will see if I can fix that.

[Lazy Palm]

7 hours ago, Raine_Hyd said:

Another thing I noticed with hoods was 1 of the punishments (I guess heavy bondage Idk) where you're cuffed and bound and have to stay there until you're unbound automatically puts on the hood even if you have it turned off in the heavy bondage settings. Idk if that's affected by something or not.

Yeah, I am re-working the mcm and grouping stuff a bit more to get the events in their own section.  I will try to get a checkbox to disable the hood in there for this one.  Also, added hood and blindfold selectors in the customize bondage.

[Lazy Palm]

It has been a bit of time since the last dev update, but I do have some stuff in progress.  Re-working the menus and the MCM for clarity.  Revamping the bondage management yet again, to try to better accommodate other mod interactions.  Better NPC dialogue during events.  Lots of refactoring of code.  Some bug fixes.  Hopefully I will have something new dropping this weekend.

 

I had some screen shots to upload, but it is not working today.  Anybody else have issues with that??

[DonQuiWho]

Just a quick report

 

Another mod, think it was Harvesting Adventures, or poss DEC or DCL, started an Estrus Dwemer Machine event after raiding an egg from a bird's nest out in the countryside

 

There was NO current DOM set in 'Binding', but up popped a message box saying something like (not exact words and was too slow to get a screenshot) 'DHLP Suspend terminated Binding event, Dismissed Dom, Go and find another Dom.'   Hope that's a good enough summary

 

The Sexlab animation then stopped animating midstream, the first parts of the Dwemer Machine (table type thing) remained on the PC, who was frozen stationary in place (in what I think was one of the first sections of that animation), and the Estrus Animation then played to the end in sound only.  It terminated OK and the PC restarted as normal for the end of a Sexlab animation

 

EDIT:  Looked at diagnostics after all finished and screenshots attached

 

I guess that this isn't quite what's supposed to happen ... 😏

 

Hope that's clear enough, and I'm sure you'll suss out the cause, and the fix for the next iteration

 

Press on .... 💪

 

DQW

Edited November 8, 2024 by DonQuiWho
add screenshots

[Lazy Palm]

On 11/7/2024 at 8:09 PM, DonQuiWho said:

There was NO current DOM set in 'Binding', but up popped a message box saying something like (not exact words and was too slow to get a screenshot) 'DHLP Suspend terminated Binding event, Dismissed Dom, Go and find another Dom.'   Hope that's a good enough summary

 

Yeah, I need to work on that.  None of that should be firing if no dom.  Thanks for the report and the screen shots!

[Lazy Palm]

Hey, to everybody that is waiting on  bug fixes or the updates I promised, sorry for the delay!  I am a bit lost in code refactoring land and ended up rebuilding giant chunks of the mod's code.  I trying to make some of the scripts a bit more lean and solid, and hopefully it will pay dividends down the road!

 

Keep fixing/improving things as I test also. 

• Fixed the word wall event so it works in outdoor areas.
• Temporarily disabling the gag effect in DD when dom is starting conversations when player is gagged (was removing and reapplying gag before).
• Have the rules update running regularly to fix missing items.  This is conditioned by the OnObjectUnequipped event and keyword checks so it should keep a low load on the scripts.

Edited November 11, 2024 by Lazy Palm

[Lazy Palm]

Forgot to mention on my post yesterday.  I am moving bondage item / furniture lists out of the internal code into JSON files, so you can add items and tweak the names if you would like.

 

Sample:

 

    "elbows" :

    {

        "Armbinder Rope" : [ "0x060486E3", "0x060486E4", "Devious Devices - Expansion.esm", "zadx_Armbinder_Rope_Inventory" ],

        "Elbowbinder Ebonite" : [ "0x060415A3", "0x060415A4", "Devious Devices - Expansion.esm", "zadx_ElbowbinderEboniteInventory" ],

        "Elbowbinder Ebonite Red" : [ "0x060415A5", "0x060415A6", "Devious Devices - Expansion.esm", "zadx_ElbowbinderEboniteRedInventory" ],

        "Elbowbinder Ebonite White" : [ "0x060415A7", "0x060415A8", "Devious Devices - Expansion.esm", "zadx_ElbowbinderEboniteWhiteInventory" ],

        "Elbowbinder Leather" : [ "0x06031019", "0x06031018", "Devious Devices - Expansion.esm", "zadx_ElbowbinderInventory" ]

    },

 

Also, I am probably going to add powerofthree's Papyrus Extender as a requirement.  Hope this does not cause anybody issues!

Edited November 11, 2024 by Lazy Palm