What is a wench?

[Bastak21]

I'm actually asking this because I'm not a native english speaker. I searched it on many websites but couldn't find the exact answer as all sites saying it has different meanings. So I would be appreciated if native english speakers or the ones that  know the meaning answer this question. Is it mean prostitute(sex worker)? Or just drink and food serving girl in inns, restaurants? Or is it both?

Edited February 9, 2024 by Bastak21

[davisev5225]

A wench is generally in reference to a woman who will engage in pickup sex.  It doesn't mean "prostitute", it just means "easy lay".

[FauxFurry]

It was one of the terms for 'young adult female human' which became associated with the lines of work that they engaged in (synonym of Maid). 

[Miauzi]

Vor einer Stunde sagte Bastak21:

Ich frage das tatsächlich, weil ich kein englischer Muttersprachler bin. Ich habe auf vielen Websites danach gesucht, konnte aber keine genaue Antwort finden, da alle Websites sagen, dass es unterschiedliche Bedeutungen hat. Daher würde ich mich freuen, wenn englische Muttersprachler oder solche, die die Bedeutung kennen, diese Frage beantworten würden. Ist es eine gemeine Prostituierte (Sexarbeiterin)? Oder einfach nur Getränke- und Essensdienerin in Gasthäusern und Restaurants? Oder ist es beides?

 

My translator into “German” does it -> "Dirne"

 

Zitat

In Old High German (the language of the Middle Ages) it was still a general name for girls and is still regional today, especially in the form Dirn or Deern ("Deern" is mainly used on the German North and Baltic Sea coasts)

 

The term "Dirndl" is also derived from "Dirne" - a piece of clothing invented at the beginning of the 20th century by city women for their summer holidays in the country - the original clothing of the rural population or even their traditional costume has little to do with it!

So what you see at "October" festivals as the clothing of female waitresses has absolutely nothing to do with the original work clothing as a bar lady (waitress)... that's pure fake - but you can make good money with it.

A waitress also wore clothing in a Bavarian "beer parlor" in the 19th century -> long black skirt + white HIGH-necked blouse + floor-length apron

Today, "whore" primarily means a serious insult to a woman - ultimately calling her a "prostitute."

[Miauzi]

6 minutes ago, FauxFurry said:

Es war einer der Begriffe für „junger erwachsener weiblicher Mensch“, der mit den von ihnen ausgeübten Berufen in Verbindung gebracht wurde (Synonym für „Dienstmädchen“). 

 

But I can't find anything about this in my German home language - the term "maid" (which probably also exists in English) would probably be more appropriate

(So of course the term "Dienstmädchen" does exist - but it is derived from "maid" and not from "wench" aka "whore")

 

In rural areas the term "Magd" still exists - the female counterpart to the male "servant" as an assistant on a farm

[Bastak21]

1 minute ago, Miauzi said:

 

But I can't find anything about this in my German home language - the term "maid" (which probably also exists in English) would probably be more appropriate

(So of course the term "Dienstmädchen" does exist - but it is derived from "maid" and not from "wench" aka "whore")

 

In rural areas the term "Magd" still exists - the female counterpart to the male "servant" as an assistant on a farm

I think the term "Dirne" and wench is completly different things. It also doesn't exist in my home language too so it' hard to understand.

Everyone is giving me a different answer. I'm still confused.

[Bastak21]

So if we think like real synonym is how FauxFurry mentioned Young adult womens that are engaged in maid work like in inns, restraunts or similar works are called wenches. It has nothing to do with sexual work or prostitution right?

[Miauzi]

Vor 4 Minuten sagte Bastak21:

Wenn wir also denken, dass es sich bei FauxFurry   um ein echtes Synonym handelt, werden junge erwachsene Frauen, die als Dienstmädchen arbeiten, beispielsweise in Gasthäusern, Restaurants oder ähnlichen Arbeiten, als Frauen bezeichnet. Es hat nichts mit Sexarbeit oder Prostitution zu tun, oder?

 

In der deutschen Sprache steht dieser Begriff NICHT dafür - dazu habe ich einige Ausführungen gemacht!

(ich bleibe jetzt mal bewusst bei meiner Muttersprache - offensichtlich verzerren diese automatischen Übersetzer massiv bestimmte Begriffe)

[DoctaSax]

For a long time young women engaged as waitresses in inns often earned some extra cash from prostitution, and in the same way young chambermaids and the like were often persuaded to let their employer or his sons have sex with them. From that concurrence grew the assumption that young and pretty lowerclass women in those type of jobs were indeed 'easy'.

[Bastak21]

2 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

For a long time young women engaged as waitresses in inns often earned some extra cash from prostitution, and in the same way young chambermaids and the like were often persuaded to let their employer or his sons have sex with them. From that concurrence grew the assumption that young and pretty lowerclass women in those type of jobs were indeed 'easy'.

So it means both then, both prostitute and maid

[DoctaSax]

Well, yes. Mind you, it was a different type of prostitution usually than it was for whores in the city, working the streets and docks. It all depends on the specific situation ofc, but a maid/serving girl in a roadside inn would be more available to men she found attractive herself, and paying her afterwards was more of a gentlemanly thank you, in the same way as tipping her for bringing you drinks.

I am basing this mostly on literature set in the late 18th, early 19th century though.

[Bastak21]

Okay I figured it out. So the term wench was only used for young adult maids and workers like maids. But they were Sometimes persuaded to have sex with customer or their bosses employers for extra money? These kind of things led the assumption among people that wenches are actually like prostitutes?

Edited February 9, 2024 by Bastak21

[Bastak21]

I think we can shortly say "maid prostitute" to wenches in inns, bars etc. But probably not all were prostitute ofc.

[Bastak21]

I also think that todays usage of this word and back in the time is kind of different. Today this word seems to lost a bit of its meaning and its used like a insult word to women similar to bitch or slut. Even though they are not maid.

[DoctaSax]

The assumption for girls working at an inn would be that they'd at least be sluts, sometimes available for the asking, sometimes for the right price. People would more easily assume it depending on her behavior when doing her normal tasks - banter, flirting, what she wore, the way she moved - and that assumption could still be wrong. They might just be flirting for regular tips, and nothing else.

Girls working as servants in a house would not exhibit such behavior toward the employer & sons or they'd be kicked out by the woman of the house, but secret dalliances with the men in the house would still contribute to the overal image of young women in serving jobs being easy.

 

[Grey Cloud]

Or everyone could try using a dictionary instead of pulling stuff out of their arse.

 

wench (n.)

late 13c., wenche "girl, young woman," especially if unmarried, also "female infant," shortened from wenchel "child," also in Middle English "girl, maiden," from Old English wencel, probably related to wancol "unsteady, fickle, weak," from Proto-Germanic *wankila- (source also of Old Norse vakr "child, weak person," Old High German wanchal "fickle"), from PIE *weng- "to bend, curve" (see wink (v.)).

The wenche is nat dead, but slepith. [Wycliffe, Matthew ix.24, c. 1380]

In Middle English occasionally with disparaging suggestion, and secondary sense of "concubine, strumpet" is attested by mid-14c. Also "serving-maid, bondwoman, young woman of a humble class" (late 14c.), a sense retained in the 19c. U.S. South in reference to slave women of any age. In Shakespeare's day a female flax-worker could be a flax-wench, flax-wife, or flax-woman.

also from late 13c.

https://www.etymonline.com/word/wench

 

35 minutes ago, Bastak21 said:

Okay I figured it out. So the term wench was only used for young adult maids and workers like maids. But they were Sometimes persuaded to have sex with customer or their bosses employers for extra money? These kind of things led the assumption among people that wenches are actually like prostitutes?

More or less.

 

 

15 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

The assumption for girls working at an inn would be that they'd at least be sluts, sometimes available for the asking, sometimes for the right price. People would more easily assume it depending on her behavior when doing her normal tasks - banter, flirting, what she wore, the way she moved - and that assumption could still be wrong. They might just be flirting for regular tips, and nothing else.

Girls working as servants in a house would not exhibit such behavior toward the employer & sons or they'd be kicked out by the woman of the house, but secret dalliances with the men in the house would still contribute to the overal image of young women in serving jobs being easy.

 

I'll not bother asking if you have a source for any of that but I will ask whether you mean inns or taverns as they are or were two different things.

[woodsman30]

41 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

instead of pulling stuff out of their arse.

Ah yes the vast library of arse it is used more often than not.

[DoctaSax]

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

I'll not bother asking if you have a source for any of that but I will ask whether you mean inns or taverns as they are or were two different things.

 

And I wouldn't bother responding if you did ask, considering that tone of yours.

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, DoctaSax said:

 

And I wouldn't bother responding if you did ask, considering that tone of yours.

You've been having that problem, too, eh?

[Guest]

4 hours ago, woodsman30 said:

Ah yes the vast library of arse it is used more often than not.

I've heard it's crappy.

 

I'll see myself out.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, DoctaSax said:

The assumption for girls working at an inn would be that they'd at least be sluts, sometimes available for the asking, sometimes for the right price. People would more easily assume it depending on her behavior when doing her normal tasks - banter, flirting, what she wore, the way she moved - and that assumption could still be wrong. They might just be flirting for regular tips, and nothing else.

Girls working as servants in a house would not exhibit such behavior toward the employer & sons or they'd be kicked out by the woman of the house, but secret dalliances with the men in the house would still contribute to the overal image of young women in serving jobs being easy.

 

If I'm not mistaken, "wench" is pirate/sailor slang for a woman. For example, "See that beautiful wench?"

Edited February 10, 2024 by Guest

[Kelvryn]

 

Just means woman i think.

[Grey Cloud]

6 hours ago, CrowOfItachi said:

If I'm not mistaken, "wench" is pirate/sailor slang for a woman.

"If I'm not mistaken" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

"If I'm not mistaken" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

Dude, if you think I'm going to let some random schmuck who acts like their opinions somehow makes them better than everyone else get the better of me, then you're sadly mistaken. I don't give two shits about your existence, let alone about what you have to say or think. The whole point of what I was saying in the other thread was that your opinion doesn't make you right, but of course, you're too arrogant to see that.

Here's some advice for you: GROW UP.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, davisev5225 said:

A wench is generally in reference to a woman who will engage in pickup sex.  It doesn't mean "prostitute", it just means "easy lay".

It was a term for "woman" that became associated with words like "whore" or "slut." It's not unlike how the "q" word became a homophobic slur when it was initially a synonym for "odd."