[WIP] Skykids - Child races & other technical goodies - No more armor patcher! New CotS R2 Race!(6/22/15)

[en_hawk]

I'm trying to create a teen character and I'm wondering, is there any way to alter the skykids body to give them breasts?  I noticed in your file "girl body assets" (that seems unavailable here on LL) that there is a teen skeleton and textures.  I attempted replacing the normal skykids female skeleton and textures with what was in that file, and while the texture seemed to work, the breast size stayed flat (I did read that those files are modders resources, I just don't know how to go about using them.)  There are sliders for the breasts in the character creation screen that don't seem to work, I'm not sure if those are from skykids or from one of its required mods, but it would be nice to be able to use those.

Breast size sliders are for BBP enabled bodies and the like, and will have no effect on any of the SK content. The teen body does have variable breast size, though it is tied to the vanilla weight slider. The teen content consists of textures, a skeleton, and meshes which you need to install in order to get it working; after that you should be able to use the weight slider as with any other body.

[DjangoMango]

I'm seeing hands and feet meshes in there (I'm assuming those are meshes), and I'm also seeing the files "hawk b4 teen unp 1.nif" "hawk b4 teen unp 0.nif" and so on. Are those the body meshes and I would just need to rename them and replace the standard meshes?

 

Secondary unrelated question - Will armor not work at all on the SK models unless it's got a resized variant that's been added into the armor swapper mod? The reason I ask is I'm attempting to add this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13995/? to a skykids character. I swapped out the skykids skeletons with renamed copies of the skykids beast skeletons so they have tail slots, as well as edited the tail mod to allow any custom race to use the item, but I can't get them to show up on the skykids models - but they work on other custom races. So I'm thinking maybe it's because they're not listed in the armor swapper list of compatible armors. Might this be the case?

[en_hawk]

I'm seeing hands and feet meshes in there (I'm assuming those are meshes), and I'm also seeing the files "hawk b4 teen unp 1.nif" "hawk b4 teen unp 0.nif" and so on. Are those the body meshes and I would just need to rename them and replace the standard meshes?

Yes, that is correct. The hands and feet are provided simply for completeness sake due to the fact that it is intended as a modders resource. Consult the readme for all other information.

 

Secondary unrelated question - Will armor not work at all on the SK models unless it's got a resized variant that's been added into the armor swapper mod? The reason I ask is I'm attempting to add this: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/13995/? to a skykids character. I swapped out the skykids skeletons with renamed copies of the skykids beast skeletons so they have tail slots, as well as edited the tail mod to allow any custom race to use the item, but I can't get them to show up on the skykids models - but they work on other custom races. So I'm thinking maybe it's because they're not listed in the armor swapper list of compatible armors. Might this be the case?

No, any custom armor will work out of the box on the SK races; though it obviously wont be fitted for the custom bodies it will still show up. As for the mod in question, I looked at the plugin and you shouldn't need to alter it in any way for function on the SK races(though that may not be the case for other custom races, as it is lacking the default race entry(SK does not use this)). I tested it and it worked correctly in my game, make sure your load order is correct and it is being sorted above the armor patcher by BOSS. Lastly, you don't need to change the skeletons out for the SK races, the regular skeletons already have the necessary tail bones to support these, and the beast skeletons have smaller heads which is probably undesirable on the normal races.

[DjangoMango]

Thanks a lot for the reply. I got the teen body mesh working and it's turned out nice. I also got the tail from that mod working after realizing all I needed to do was run the skykids patcher again. Won't be forgetting that part again with future armor/clothing additions.

[shadowfox]

I just did a clean install of skyrim, and I am now using mod organizer for my mods. My version of MO comes with integrated LOOT (the new version of BOSS). My question is this: does the armor patcher work with LOOT?

[en_hawk]

I just did a clean install of skyrim, and I am now using mod organizer for my mods. My version of MO comes with integrated LOOT (the new version of BOSS). My question is this: does the armor patcher work with LOOT?

It depends on if the skyproc library has been updated to support it(I would then have to update the pacther to take advantage of that), however in its present state no it does not.

[color]

> 1. Multiple age ranges are going to be a thing, yes, though the present age group is not supposed to be the teens. If you want a younger look, at least for the females, try grabbing the female skeleton out of the monli addon and replacing the normal skykids one with it, it adjusts the proportions in an attempt to get a younger look.
= It not will change their faces i think.

> 2. I'm not sure I understand you entirely, do you mean adding extra child NPCs to the game in random locations/families? If so, probably not officially, though I welcome anyone who wishes to do so of their own accord.
= Check.

> 3. Not a chance, I can't stand the nexus. If someone else wants to volunteer to wade through the filth that is required to run something over there, then maybe, but I'm personally not going anywhere near that place.
= This mod definitely should be more popular. I want to implement it in some global mod.

[en_hawk]

> 1. Multiple age ranges are going to be a thing, yes, though the present age group is not supposed to be the teens. If you want a younger look, at least for the females, try grabbing the female skeleton out of the monli addon and replacing the normal skykids one with it, it adjusts the proportions in an attempt to get a younger look.

= It not will change their faces i think.

Ah, you were referring to the facegen assets. That's something that I'm not too great at; if you've got any suggestions for alternate superior resources, I'd love to hear them(as ours kinda suck).

[Spyder Arachnid]

So I am trying my hand at a more "fantasy based" child replacer, just to see what I could come up with.

 

Note: This is just a quick dirty edit or the original child replacer. Didn't do too much except tweak a few sliders and change the hair, just to see if I could do it.

 

 

 

 

 

The only problem I am seeming to have is that the head seems too big and the skin color is mismatched (as per the seam at the neck). As well, was trying to figure out a way to make this standalone (have everything included in the patch), cause as of right now, it has a bunch of masters. I'm using the Eyes of Beauty, with the Oblivion Hair Pack, and the Apachii Hairs compatibility packs to try and get the look I'm going for. As well, when I finally get the looks down, I'd like to use some custom armors for them all, but that would just add more requirements to the file on top of all the ones it has already.

 

But for now, I just want to figure out how to fix the big head issue and the mismatch skin color. I'll start worrying about everything else later lol.

[en_hawk]

So I am trying my hand at a more "fantasy based" child replacer, just to see what I could come up with.

 

Note: This is just a quick dirty edit or the original child replacer. Didn't do too much except tweak a few sliders and change the hair, just to see if I could do it.

 

 

 

 

 

The only problem I am seeming to have is that the head seems too big and the skin color is mismatched (as per the seam at the neck). As well, was trying to figure out a way to make this standalone (have everything included in the patch), cause as of right now, it has a bunch of masters. I'm using the Eyes of Beauty, with the Oblivion Hair Pack, and the Apachii Hairs compatibility packs to try and get the look I'm going for. As well, when I finally get the looks down, I'd like to use some custom armors for them all, but that would just add more requirements to the file on top of all the ones it has already.

 

But for now, I just want to figure out how to fix the big head issue and the mismatch skin color. I'll start worrying about everything else later lol.

That looks really solid, I'll gladly support you in your endeavor to make better faces(as I'm clearly awful at it it). Personally the problems look like an export issue, how are you making+exporting your faces? There's a specific process you have to use to make them work properly with CGE, which I can go over if need be. Head size is controlled by the skeleton, and is global to the entire race, so if you change it it will effect everything. If you have any ideas for better base facegen assets that would be cool too.

 

As for the dependencies, I'm not too keen on the idea of bundling other authors content like that(even if proper credit is attributed). Don't misunderstand, I'm perfectly ok with using other mods content, I just don't like the idea of bundling someones entire mod content to avoid a dependency. If you do it right, you can actually dodge the need for any compatibility patches for the relevant cosmetic mods and still use them on your exported NPCs, so that you simply need to have the original mod installed(technically you just need their textures loaded, not the esm).

 

I'm definitely interested in this, I'll help however I can.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Well, as for the dependencies, I was thinking the same thing as well. Was just in an excited mood at the moment, so got a bit carried away with the whole "standalone" idea lol.

 

But the only dependencies I would probably use are the Oblivion Hair Pack, since you offer a compatibility patch for it. But yeah, if I'm lucky, might not even need to use it if I can get it to work without it. And sticking with vanilla hair won't hurt either, I can always make two versions.

 

But as for how I made that....... *ducks for cover* I used ECE lol. Then opened the console and did "spf <name>" to save my face data to a .npc file. Then just opened up your child replacer mod and replaced the face of Sissel by importing my .npc file over it. Then picked a hair from the Oblivion hair Pack, and saved it. Then what you see there, is the version of doing that.

 

I used the SkyKids race (basic Nord Child Race) for my own race, and just edited it in ECE. I'm running on a fresh install of Skyrim at the moment with just SkyKids, the dependencies for the compatibility patches, and that's it right now. Didn't want any of my other stuff getting in the way. So if you want me to try a different method, I can try that instead. Like I said, I barely have anything installed right now, so trying new stuff is not a problem.

[Spyder Arachnid]

So here's another. This time, Dorthe.

 

Removed ECE, and just used the vanilla character creation to do this one. Then same thing as before. Made myself a nord child race character, then did "spf <name>" and imported the .npc file over the Dorthe in your child replacer. Changed her hair, blah blah blah, and saved it. For some reason, Apachii hair won't load in the CK, no idea why. So just sticking with Oblivion for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Head doesn't seem too big this time around (though still seems big either way), but still got that nasty seam again. Might finally break down and give RaceMenu a try again and see what I can do with that.

 

 

EDIT: Well I was able to fix the weird discoloration of the face.... had a derp moment. Forgot to press CRTL+F4 to export the data....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tried to use RaceMenu, and do the whole CGE thing, had to read a few guides and download some stuff (Nif Merge being one of them). So I tried it that way with Hroar, and couldn't get it to work at all. He still had the same face, hair, everything. Except his face turned grey. And the spf command doesn't work with RaceMenu (it imports nothing). So no idea on how to use RaceMenu to do this. But have been successful with ECE and the vanilla creator, so might just stick with those since they seem to work.

 

The only issue I have now, is still the head size (no idea how to adjust it) and now she has these weird red lines over her eyes....

[en_hawk]

I'm pretty tired right now, but I'll get back to you in the morning and go into the exact details of how to get everything setup properly.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Sounds good. I just woke up myself just now (yeah I don't get much sleep at all).

 

I gotta make a list any ways of all the kids, and then write down all their information like race, location, etc etc to get an idea of how they should look.

 

Sleep well!

[ChipyChops]

I use nif merge, I think its the easiest way. Basically in the CK all I do is setup the body, take note of the weight and skin tone (skin tone in one is a zero based index while the other starts at one), then CTRL+F4 so you get the file name. Thats all you need in the CK, forget custom hairs and all that stuff.

 

Then in RaceMenu create the head, with the weight and skin tone, and any custom hair and eyes, be-careful of some scars, I had issues with some. When you're happy export the head with CGE.

 

Then you can use nif merge, just make sure you've ticked everything that you want replaced. Ignore any errors when you check / create. In your facegen folder you should have 2 files, one with .bak on it, thats the old head.Then you need to save the texture as an uncompressed dds.

[Spyder Arachnid]

See, I tried all that. Followed this guide here (basically the same as your description): http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Using_a_face_made_with_Chargen_Extension_on_an_NPC_for_Skyrim

 

But got nadda, zip, zilch, nothing. It didn't change the face at all, and instead, left him looking like he already did, just with a grey face instead. No idea what I did wrong, but I followed that guide to a tee, and still got nothing out of it.

 

Might stick with it though, and just make all the faces and save the CGE data, then just upload it here for someone to do it instead. Cause I don't know what I did wrong, but whatever it is, I can't get it to work for the life of me.

 

 

On a side note though, seems several of the sliders in RaceMenu don't even work on SkyKids. And I have the plugin from here for the Chargen Extension, but a lot of the sliders don't even work. As well, none of the colors change either. I can't select custom colors. Can only use preset colors.

 

And on another note, as a suggestion for SkyKids and the males, was thinking of maybe if you could make the skin color a bit more "healthy" looking? It's rather grey and dull colored compared to the females who have pink healthy looking skin. Just a suggestion is all.

 

I'll keep at it with this RaceMenu business and just make some faces for now and store them in separate folders, till I can figure out how to work this whole CGE/Nif Merge thing.

[ChipyChops]

Did you drag and drop the faces in the correct places, the new face should be on the left and the old on the right. I also find it odd that the sliders / colors don't work, I've heard that its been updated, my version is from a good few months ago.

 

EDIT: just in case, the changes will only show up in game not in the CK. Open the nif file in nifscope to see if things have copied over.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Yeah I have the latest version of RaceMenu. Just downloaded it yesterday. And I did drag and drop the files in the proper boxes in Nif Merge.

 

And yeah, I was checking in game not the CK. I only used the CK to set the hair and stuff before I copied over the data with Nif Merge.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Well here is another I did. Sond, the Wilder kid. Tried to give him a traveler/wilder look since he is a wanderer who delves into ruins and such.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, that is just the version I made. I haven't put him on an NPC yet. BUT, below are the files to do just that! Just as a test for anyone that wants to try it, since I seem to fail at it. I included the screenshot there as well, so you could see the hairstyle I used for him and apply it to get his full look.

 

I'll give it another try myself to see if I can get it to work this time as well. But there's the CGE files for anyone else that wants to try it as well.

 

EDIT: And here is the... umm... finished product?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems the face didn't transfer over at all. But the hair, warpaint, and the outfit changed. Just all the work I did on the face didn't go through for some reason.

 

Ugh, this is becoming tedious. lol

Sond.rar

[en_hawk]

Well its been a while since I've done this, but I'll start with the quick explanation and we can work from there. First, the only things you need/want to set in the CK are the skin tone and weight, everything else is utterly unimportant, once those two things are set you want to export the facegen assets. These assets are placeholders for the filenames only, as they're likely going to be completely and utterly broken, plus you will be unable to select any custom hair due to the RC scripts not having been executed(which is what enables the hair).

 

You want to enable SKSE's tint mask size override, as this should let you export the face textures properly without the over sized tintmasks corrupting the output file. In skse.ini:

[Display]
iTintTextureResolution=1024

I did all the existing faces using an older racemenu with the standalone CGE, but the new integrated version should function exactly the same(all the sliders should work as well, at least they did in my limited testing). I set the npc as a racial preset in the CK and then load it up in chargen so my weight and skin tone are loaded in, then build the face from there. I save the final product to one of the save slots provided in racemenu, then export the files with the export feature. Then you use nifmerge to copy the freshly exported data over the files you made with the CK initially. You need to make sure that every node matches up properly or the game will refuse to load the file and gray face(which looks to be what you're experiencing), you will likely have to manually match the node names up when merging if you've changed any of the parts(brows, hair, eyes, etc.) as the names will be different, but it should be obvious as to what goes where.

 

At that point, the exported faces should hopefully work in game, at least they did for me. If there's any inconsistency between the part names in the exported nif files and the names of the parts specified in the plugin, the game will refuse to load the file and gray face on you. The weird color blotches and patterns you were observing were the result of the tintmask texture corruption that happens when you try to export head textures with oversized tintmasks either in the CK(in any context) or via racemenu without the SKSE setting set properly.

 

I've also attached a slot file I was using as a 'template' of sorts(I think this is the right file, I didn't actually test it just now, but it should be the file used for dorthe) if you want to see what CGE values I was generally using. If you want to play around and change the base facegen morphs I'm alright with that too. Anyway I really hope this helps, let me know if you're still having difficulty with anything and I'll see what I can do.

6.rar

[Spyder Arachnid]

Ah see, my SKSE is set to 4096, not 1024. Might be the reason why my textures are so big in file size as well.

 

But I made some progress. Seems wearing clothes when I export the data causes issues. So I have to make sure I have nothing on when I export the face. But tried again this time with Adara, the Silversmith's daughter in Markarth, and it came out pretty well this time.

 

Only issue I have is the complexion didn't transfer over, and the hair color didn't change. But the hair color is a simple change in the CK, no big deal there. Can probably do that with complexion as well. And then that seam showed up again on the neck.

 

 

The one I made is on the right. The NPC is on the left.

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that, it seems like stuff is finally starting to work right. Just need to make sure I am naked before exporting and then to change the complexion and hair color in the CK. Still gotta figure out the neck seam issue though.

 

But no idea why the sliders are not working for me then. Like I said, I'm using the newest version of RaceMenu, and several of the sliders don't even work. I can still work with what does work, but it just seems weird that some of the sliders don't work. As well, I can't do any custom colors cause none of that works either. Maybe I'm missing something, no idea what, but it doesn't have any requirements or anything that I am missing, so no idea.

 

Only reason the eyes are different, are cause I forgot to use Eyes of Beauty stuff on the NPC. Might do without it though, as that is just another dependency that I don't want to tack onto the others already.

 

But thanks for the heads up. I'll try changing my resolution in SKSE and see if that helps, and then try some others and see if I can fix those minor issues. Thanks again.

[en_hawk]

Well as long as your resolution is set larger than the tintmasks you're using it should be fine, 1024 is just what I run personally(and happens to match the size on the SK tintmasks).

 

Would you mind posting the esp+slot file for one of your problem NPCs so I can mess around with it? Also can you list which sliders specifically aren't working in racemenu so I can investigate further.

[Spyder Arachnid]

Actually, I finally got it working! (though, the sliders still don't work, but I'll get to that in a minute)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trial and error basically. Had to change the skin color to match the one I was using, that fixed the mismatched skin. Obviously, change the hair color and eye color in the CK to the ones I picked so they match up as well (of course, I picked the wrong color but that's an easy fix). I went ahead and switched to 1024, and now my file sizes are much smaller which is nice. Forgot to change her complexion, but that's no biggy.

 

But before I was working off your child replacer mod, and this time, I decided to just make one from scratch instead of working off of one. Seemed to be much easier, as now I can tell what textures and meshes I am editing instead of having to scroll through them all.

 

I've attached it below so if you want to give it a try, go for it. It just replaces Adara for right now.

 

 

As for sliders, here's the list of what doesn't work.

 

 

 

Nose Selion Width no.2

Nose Tilt

Cheek Shape

Jaw Shape

Nose Bridge

Nose Width

 

Eyelid Open

Eye Angle

Eye Size no.2

 

Brow Angle

 

Lips Open

Mouth Smile

Mouth Width no.1

Lip Thickness

Chin Jut Depth

 

 

 

And then of course the custom colors. Can't use any of the Hue, Saturation, Brightness, Alpha stuff. They do nothing. Can only use the preset colors that come by default.

Adara.rar

[en_hawk]

Thanks for the info on the sliders, I'll look into it and see what I can do on my end. As for the colors not working, the only thing I know of that requires a color to be specifically defined as a preset is the hair; everything else gets baked into the texture and you should be able to use whatever you want, so that's really odd that you're having that issue. I believe you can force the color form value for hair to something not listed in the race record(ie not 'valid') using tes5edit, so if you want to go with custom hair colors you can just create custom color forms in your replacer esp and assign them to the NPC in question without having to alter the race records in the master. As for the skin tone, once again that's why I set whatever NPC I'm working on as a racial preset, so that the skin tone is already matched up out of the box when I load it up in game.

 

It's been a while, I guess I'm getting a bit rusty on this, as you're totally right about a bunch of the stuff needing to be set in the CK. Stuff like complexion needs to be set in there before exporting, basically I'd get everything except the actual geometry work(and any custom tint colors) ready in the CK(try using the 'spf' command and importing that, should work for most of the values) before moving on to the final edits in chargen. Obviously hair and eye settings aren't going to carry over(RC scripts not having executed yet), but that stuff all gets fixed via nifmerge so you should be alright in that department. If all else fails, I can always break this stuff all back out myself and pound out the finer details of the process once again. So far what you've got going looks great.

 

Slightly unrelated, but I think it was you who mentioned adjusting the base skin color on the male textures earlier? I tried doing that a few months back and never really made any headway; they just came out looking like oranges. I'd love to get something a little more 'human' looking going on, as they're just the base SoS textures, but my own efforts in that department haven't exactly panned out. If you've got anything better as an alternative in mind I'd love to hear it. Same story with any possible alternate base facegen morphs(I know I kind of keep repeating that one...), but I think the low quality of the plain vanilla morphs out of the box without any help from CGE is a bit of a turn off for some folk...

[Spyder Arachnid]

Yeah as for all the skin colors and all that stuff, I'm trying to make them all look as unique as I can get them. I don't want any cookie cutters, so I'm taking my time getting them all to kind of match up to their personality, race, what they do, etc type stuff.

 

I'm not too worried about the color stuff, as I don't think I'll be using any custom colors. The basic ones are fine for what I need, as I'm not going to go overboard (no pink hair or bright green makeup or anything lol). So the basics work fine. The sliders are okay as well, as I can work with the ones that do work. I always find a work around lol.

 

 

As for the skin texture, I'll see if I can do anything for it via photoshop or something. I've worked with the SoS textures plenty of times doing tattoos and such and defining them, so I'll see if I can come up with anything that might help. As for facegen morphs, to be honest, I have no idea what that is lol. I'm assuming you just mean the default face, model and textures or something? I just click buttons and move sliders, so unsure on all the finer details lol. Have you tried using the old Children of the Sky mod that was abandoned? It had some pretty nice heads for the kids if that is what you are looking for. Heck, even the skin color/texture would work there too if you wanted to try that. I think I still have an old custom copy of just the child replacer only that I made, that I could mess with and see what I can do with it.