Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[Teddar]

3 hours ago, Trykz said:

 

The tools CDPR did release were a joke. Nothing substantive can be done with them.

No worldbuilding tools. No quest building tools. Without those, CP2077's modding

scene is severely limited. Unless another Alt, Judy, or PanAm outfit retexture is enough

for you.

 

CDPR could have saved themselves a LOT of heartache with the disastrous launch of

the game had they released a set of REAL modding tools so modders could squash bugs

and build new content for the game.

 

Releasing a set of Bethesda level tools was suggested more than once to CDPR. And not just by

modders, but a whole slew of highly respected games reviewers as well.

 

They simply didn't want to listen.

 

For me their biggest sin was not offering the option to play in third person as well as first as Bethedsa does. I read all the BS about it being more immersive in FP but i think this was a smoke screen. Easier to push the game out the door faster if you dont have to render and animate the PC in third person.

[SleepyNinja]

8 hours ago, TheCaptn said:

Two good replies above mine, but just to give a little historical context here, 3-6 months is basically the standard gap between a Bethesda game release and their mod tools releasing... The single exception was New Vegas, which released with its GECK because it was basically unchanged from the Fallout 3 GECK. But in comparison the upper end of that scale is Oblivion, which didn't get its Construction Set until a year after release.

This gap that we're waiting through is pretty standard so far. We also know that this has been a major engine revision, with Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 all being built in variants of CK1, but Starfield is the first game of the CK2 era, and that might delay the tools... So even if we're sitting here till February or March waiting on them, that's reeeally gonna suck for us, but it's still within the normal timeframe.

It's a build-it-and-they-will-come situation though. I've seen commenters on YouTube videos suggesting that all these modders will simply leave if there are no tools soon, and that's just not how it works. It's never been that way... Once the tools come out people will start using them to tune the game more to their own preferences. They reinvigorate the game, so more people come back to play again, and some of them take up modding too, etc. It's still going to become a platform for people to project their own ideas onto, even if the tools take a year...

The only possible threat would be an alternative game with an equally powerful set of modding tools releasing ahead of Bethesda and poaching all that enthusiasm and creative potential... But unless CDPR are secretly about to drop some god-tier world building tools for RedEngine, I can't even imagine who'd be in a position to do something like that.

Funny you mentioned CDPR and the RedEngine, was kinda late to the party but followed the CyberPunk 2077 mod creation thread on here and lots of people including me had great ideas of what could of been. As everybody knows CDPR did nothing with the RedEngine as far as letting their customers abuse the game like Bethesda allows with their games.  In all honesty that thread needs to be marked as archived because its as dead as dead gets. Without tools, nobody bothers unless you want another retexture or reshade mod.

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by SleepyNinja

[TheCaptn]

2 hours ago, SleepyNinja said:

Funny you mentioned CDPR and the RedEngine, was kinda late to the party but followed the CyberPunk 2077 mod creation thread on here and lots of people including me had great ideas of what could of been. As everybody knows CDPR did nothing with the RedEngine as far as letting their customers abuse the game like Bethesda allows with their games.

I was right there with you friend... I didn't mention CDPR by accident, they're in the unique position of being the only ones in the right place at the right time to steal Starfield's thunder: They have an end-of-life engine that they won't be using anymore, they hired on the WolvenKit devs nearly two years ago so they know exactly what's needed, and they just released their big mic-drop DLC to close out internal development and recover their legacy. They literally couldn't be in a better position right now to turn CP2077 into a forever game along the lines of Skyrim... But they won't do it. Because like it or not that's never been a part of their development philosophy and it's just not industry practice for any studios other than Bethesda or Valve.

Then there's Larian, who have made 2023's Game of the Year in my opinion, but I also can't see them launching any kind of comprehensive mod tools into the space.... Maybe, just maybe we'll get a campaign editor at some point, but a toolset for the Divinity Engine that would allow Total Conversion modding just doesn't seem to be on anyone's mind. And I'm not sure that it would even compete with Starfield. As a bird's-eye party RPG it's different enough to coexist in the way that Skyrim and Sims 4 can coexist.

But I've played 600 hours of Starfield now, leveled three characters, pushed one of them to NG+6 ... I think I've seen maybe 75% of the hand-crafted content, and I want to leave some surprises for when I can do a hardcore survival, slow travel, sex-as-a-passtime playthrough. So it's back on the shelf while I dive back into BG3 for a while, and then maybe Phantom Liberty if I can get over the bubble issue.

Edited November 8, 2023 by TheCaptn

[Pfiffy]

I'm waiting for transparet Spacesuits... Brothels on every planet...Sex in zero-gravitiy....

NifSkope and Bodyslide are in the works, but are there any news about a Skeleton? 

[Vader666]

On 11/8/2023 at 11:59 AM, Pfiffy said:

are there any news about a Skeleton? 

 

Which animation system is used by the game ?

 

[ebbluminous]

Seems like Starfield is not the amazing place for modding like Toddy said it would be. Think we'll be waiting a looooooong time before decent sex mods land

[DocClox]

On 11/8/2023 at 10:59 AM, Pfiffy said:

I'm waiting for transparet Spacesuits

 

Working on it

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Vader666 said:

Which animation system is used by the game ?

 

I believe it's the one from The Forge, but quite how they've mashed that up with the previous system remains to be seen.

 

3 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

Think we'll be waiting a looooooong time before decent sex mods land

 

It's been two and a half months.

 

We don't have a CK yet.

 

It took more than a year for Fallout 4.

 

It's a bit early to start shouting "The Sky Is Falling!"

 

[travelmedic]

7 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

Working on it 

 

Seeing as how "Raider Reform School" is already taken, how about:

 

Spacer Sex Academy

 

Ecliptic E-girl University

 

 

[Artix0]

On 11/14/2023 at 10:11 AM, ebbluminous said:

Seems like Starfield is not the amazing place for modding like Toddy said it would be. Think we'll be waiting a looooooong time before decent sex mods land

 

My brother in porn, the CK isn't even out yet. They're releasing it some time in early 2024 afaik.

 

How can you catastrophise about SF's modding scene before it has even started?

 

  

14 hours ago, travelmedic said:

 

Seeing as how "Raider Reform School" is already taken, how about:

 

Spacer Sex Academy

 

Ecliptic E-girl University

 

 

 

Crimson Catgirl College? ?

Edited November 15, 2023 by Artix0
Combining 2 comments into 1

[ebbluminous]

13 minutes ago, Artix0 said:

 

My brother in porn, the CK isn't even out yet. They're releasing it some time in early 2024 afaik.

 

How can you catastrophise about SF's modding scene before it has even started?

 

  

 

Crimson Catgirl College? ?

It seems Toddy needs to do more than release the CK tools.

https://starfieldportal.com/article/video-reveals-major-starfield-modding-issues

[Miauzi]

Vor 12 Minuten sagte Ebbluminous:

Es scheint, dass Toddy mehr tun muss, als nur die CK-Tools freizugeben.

https://starfieldportal.com/article/video-reveals-major-starfield-modding-issues

 

This has already been reported in this forum section.

That alone is a high additional hurdle... plus there are a lot more unfinished things like a 2D ocean - which you have to "enter" in order to even be able to realize part of the gameplay (planetary exploration).

But mod authors CANNOT repair or complete this - because a CK is far from enough for that... considerable "reverse engineering" would be necessary here (e.g. with the functions of the space suit and their implementation into the gameplay)

[DocClox]

21 hours ago, travelmedic said:

Seeing as how "Raider Reform School" is already taken, how about:

 

Spacer Sex Academy

 

Ecliptic E-girl University

 

7 hours ago, Artix0 said:

Crimson Catgirl College? ?

 

Probably going to have to wait until I have a CK. This is just a naked spacesuit.

 

Speaking of which, if I may be allowed a moment of self-promotion:

 

 

7 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

It seems Toddy needs to do more than release the CK tools.

 

We seem to be doing OK without them.

[RohZima]

18 hours ago, ebbluminous said:

It seems Toddy needs to do more than release the CK tools.

https://starfieldportal.com/article/video-reveals-major-starfield-modding-issues

 

He does need to fix planetside exploration and enhance space exploration. That definitely needs to happen to prevent the game from failing in the long term.

 

The core point of that video is pretty meaningless, though, because there will some unifying system either from us or from Bethesda then that issue will disappear. It might be something like a bashed patch.

 

It'll be a bit more technical but that's normal - every game was harder to mod than the last. Reacting to that would be like pre-FNIS reaction...

[joethebeast]

On 9/10/2023 at 11:16 PM, SadSun said:

Better alignment solution... Possibly the creator of the new skeleton that will eventually exist can create placement positions in areas of the bodies to use as reference for hand placement and such. I guess that would need to scale with the mesh in some instances though, so it might be too much to ask.

 

Anyway, offset xyz by crotch bone positions instead of by trying to align with base character position. That way character height or high heels would be a non factor in aligning the business end. Or, something like that.

 

A way to play in and out animations to make things look smoother.

 

Chain based animations so the mod creator can dictate how many stages there should be in their animation.

 

Better furniture animations. Either make the prop furnature placement seamless, or find a way to not remove the characters from the furniture altogether. (Goes hand in hand with in and out animations.)

 

Code break points that advanced users can use to stop the normal function of the framework in order to implement their own action if they want to, then resume the normal framework actions afterwards.

 

(Going with your 'dumb as possible' theme)Possibly a second program that would allow the creator to use drop down boxes to create the code that they need to make their mod work. then they could copy paste it into their mod script file.

 

Moonshot... The option of Procedural Animations so alignment can be adjusted on the fly. With code.

 

If I can think of anything else... I'll annoy you again.?

Inverse kinematics. I don't know if this can be implemented, but it would be nice

[Trykz]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:35 AM, RohZima said:

 

He does need to fix planetside exploration and enhance space exploration. That definitely needs to happen to prevent the game from failing in the long term.

 

The core point of that video is pretty meaningless, though, because there will some unifying system either from us or from Bethesda then that issue will disappear. It might be something like a bashed patch.

 

It'll be a bit more technical but that's normal - every game was harder to mod than the last. Reacting to that would be like pre-FNIS reaction...

 

 The following is what made me take that article as the novice reporter BS that it is:

 

Quote

As a result, whatever mods have already been published on Nexus are a lot simpler than what was created for older Bethesda games at this same point after release.

 

Really? Not as far as I can tell. It's following the typical "texture swap->mesh replacer->companion appearance" order of things that nearly every other Beth game has gone through this soon after release.

 

Quote

 

Another issue that makes modding difficult is that it is easier to break the game’s loading order as compared to its predecessors. Messing up the load order alters the way multiple mods interact with each other, which significantly breaks a heavily modded game.

Making matters worse is that this load order is automatically changed whenever a new mod is added or when Bethesda releases updates. This forces the modder to do more work to update a mod just to keep up with the switched form IDs.

 

 

Did someone report some sort of LOOT for Starfield as a technical impossibility or something? ?

 

Quote

All this might change when the official Creation Kit is finally released, but Juicehead estimates that this might take place late next year given the pace at which Bethesda is releasing updates.

 

And that may be the case. However, Bethesda did JUST release a beta client version of the game. Which to me says they're taking things seriously. It also tells me they don't care as much about GOTY status as they do about the longevity

and viability of the game over the long haul. Does anyone really think that they'll still be playing BG3 TEN YEARS FROM NOW? Not likely. But I'll bet my last buck they WILL still be playing Skyrim, Oblivion, FO4, and more likely than not, Starfield.

 

So "later in the year" for a CK? Fuck it. I have little doubt that it'll be worth the wait in the end if at least that part is accurate. But I prefer to get my information concerning modding capability from actual modders who know what they're talking about.

Not clickbait hungry YouTubers.

[Miauzi]

Vor 14 Minuten sagte Trykz:

 

Das Folgende hat mich dazu gebracht, diesen Artikel als den unerfahrenen Reporter-BS zu betrachten, der er ist:

 

 

Wirklich? Soweit ich das beurteilen kann, nicht. Es folgt der typischen Reihenfolge „Texturtausch -> Mesh-Ersatz -> Companion-Erscheinungsbild“, die fast jedes andere Beth-Spiel kurz nach der Veröffentlichung durchlaufen hat.

 

 

Hat jemand irgendeine Art von LOOT für Starfield als technische Unmöglichkeit oder so gemeldet? ?

 

 

Und das kann der Fall sein. Allerdings hat Bethesda NUR eine Beta-Client-Version des Spiels veröffentlicht. Was für mich bedeutet, dass sie die Dinge ernst nehmen. Es zeigt mir auch, dass ihnen der GOTY-Status nicht so wichtig ist wie die Langlebigkeit

und Lebensfähigkeit des Spiels auf lange Sicht. Glaubt irgendjemand wirklich, dass er BG3 auch in ZEHN JAHREN noch spielen wird? Unwahrscheinlich. Aber ich wette mein letztes Geld, dass sie immer noch Skyrim, Oblivion, FO4 und höchstwahrscheinlich auch Starfield spielen werden.

 

Also „später im Jahr“ für einen CK? Scheiß drauf. Ich habe wenig Zweifel daran, dass sich das Warten am Ende lohnen wird, wenn zumindest dieser Teil korrekt ist. Aber ich bevorzuge es, meine Informationen über die Modding-Fähigkeiten von echten Moddern zu erhalten, die wissen, wovon sie reden.

Keine Clickbait-hungrigen YouTuber.

 

Sorry - I'll definitely be dead in 10 years - I won't be playing any games anymore!

And that's a bug. Maybe I'll play "Oblivion" again before I die after 15 years - once the conversion to the Skyrim engine is finished... the same applies to "Morrowind".

Please don't draw conclusions from yourself about other people... You are certainly a very talented mod author - but definitely not "the fog of the world"!

?

My own wife also still plays BG1 and BG2... and if she's still alive in 10 years - she'll definitely still be playing BG3 too!

?

[Trykz]

8 minutes ago, Miauzi said:

 

Sorry - I'll definitely be dead in 10 years - I won't be playing any games anymore!

And that's a bug. Maybe I'll play "Oblivion" again before I die after 15 years - once the conversion to the Skyrim engine is finished... the same applies to "Morrowind".

Please don't draw conclusions from yourself about other people... You are certainly a very talented mod author - but definitely not "the fog of the world"!

?

My own wife also still plays BG1 and BG2... and if she's still alive in 10 years - she'll definitely still be playing BG3 too!

?

 

I might be there right along with you ?

 

But seriously, I know I'm no god of modding. But it wasn't a drawn conclusion. JuiceHead is a YouTube "content creator". He's not a modder. That's just a fact.

People FAR deeper into the scene, and far more "in the know" can be found right here on this site. Or even Nexus. If an in-depth and far less "speculative"

state of the Starfield modding scene were truly sought by the interviewer, they would have spoken to an actual modder. Preferably more than one.

 

It's like asking a WalMart door greeter who regularly watches home improvement shows to tell you why your home's lights are flickering or your

toilet keeps clogging up ?

[DocClox]

4 hours ago, Trykz said:

Really? Not as far as I can tell. It's following the typical "texture swap->mesh replacer->companion appearance" order of things that nearly every other Beth game has gone through this soon after release.

 

Honestly, we're way ahead of where I remember Skyrim being, 12 weeks after release. I'm amazed by the number and variety of mods we already have. To hear some folks talk, you'd think Hunterborn and Sim Settlements dropped five minutes after their games were released.

[Pfiffy]

44 minutes ago, DocClox said:

 

Honestly, we're way ahead of where I remember Skyrim being, 12 weeks after release. I'm amazed by the number and variety of mods we already have. To hear some folks talk, you'd think Hunterborn and Sim Settlements dropped five minutes after their games were released.

Well, I can't remember where Skyrim was, but I remember where Skyrim SE was 12 weeks after release and porting mods is much easier than writing new ones.  I guess, that someone at Beth is reading all the comments about what we are missing and there is already a list of things that will be offered as add-on for a price... 

 

Nifskope and Bodyslide/Outfit Studio are in the works, a beta of xedit is already out... I think we are on a good way and will see a lot of progress even before the CK is out.  

[Talamaeus]

How much do we want to bet that when the Creation Kit for Starfield drops and people open it up, it's going to make everything absurdly easier, like in a way that dumbfounds modders for a minute. From what I have seen in the game, I have a feeling that the Creation Kit this time around is going to be far less obtuse and a lot simpler than previous versions. Maybe even with actually effective tutorials this time. The whole game feels like it is a framework, and the Creation Kit will make all the "behind the scenes" stuff up front and easy to look at. So, if I had to guess, Starfield is being constructed FOR modding, rather than having modding be an afterthought that gets tacked on at the end.

Either that, or the inverse is true, and it will dumbfound us for months. Considering some of the mods we already have (gameplay and NG+ adjustments, manual ship door placement and such) I find this unlikely, but possible.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Talamaeus
Better writing and revising.

[DocClox]

Probably a bit of both. I expect there will utilities to make some things possible that we can't do right now. Creating new rooms or reposition items is a stone pain without cell viewer, so that'll be better. On the other hand, there will probably be things that opaque as hell and which take a while to figure out.

 

Same as always, really.

[Sneaksmile]

Space Pegging!  Yay! 

[Sneaksmile]

On 11/21/2023 at 2:37 AM, Talamaeus said:

How much do we want to bet that when the Creation Kit for Starfield drops and people open it up, it's going to make everything absurdly easier, like in a way that dumbfounds modders for a minute. From what I have seen in the game, I have a feeling that the Creation Kit this time around is going to be far less obtuse and a lot simpler than previous versions. Maybe even with actually effective tutorials this time. The whole game feels like it is a framework, and the Creation Kit will make all the "behind the scenes" stuff up front and easy to look at. So, if I had to guess, Starfield is being constructed FOR modding, rather than having modding be an afterthought that gets tacked on at the end.

Either that, or the inverse is true, and it will dumbfound us for months. Considering some of the mods we already have (gameplay and NG+ adjustments, manual ship door placement and such) I find this unlikely, but possible.

So .. almost the traveling and wonderful ultra-paradise of modding then .. but it seems to be taking too long ..  

[Sneaksmile]

''Defeated'' in Starfield! Yeah!   

[DocClox]

55 minutes ago, Sneaksmile said:

but it seems to be taking too long

 

Considering we don't have a CK yet, it's amazing we're as far forward as we are.