Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[Beef Cheeks]

Adding support for buttplug.io would be absolutely stellar~

 

The API is openly documented and the developers at their Discord are more than welcome to answer any questions and provide assistance.

 

Toys ended up implementing support for it by triggering controller vibration events. There's a tool called Intiface Game Haptics Router that can detect controller vibration through XInput and forward it through to buttplug.io framework.

 

This is a very rudimentary implementation though... Ideally it would be neat for the animations to somehow link penetration or maybe even caressing with buttplug.io intensity.

 

I see this being practical in mainly two ways, though there may be more:

 

1. The easy-to-implement way, but more work on the animation authors (maybe, depending on if animation design philosophy doesn't allow this already). Have optional (preferably included) intensity percentages along with the animation frames.... allowing animations to have defined penetration or touch points. So, say someone is caressing your breasts, you could send a intensity of say 15% while it is ongoing, or for the more astute, they could wave it up and down every 15 frames or so...

 

To add onto that, there could be a separate json file for listing these buttplug.io intensities, so that authors that do not wish to invest the time can allow others of the community to add the buttplug.io json files without having to modify the animation lists.

 

Ideally, it would be nice if this was directly integrated into Nemesis or FNIS itself, but I doubt we'll see that happening.

 

2. The hard-to-implement, or maybe impossible method, but lax on the mod authors. Find a way to link physics with buttplug.io. This could lead to very unexpected results. But essentially there could be a way to make it so that when specific bones touch other bones (hand touch labia, etc), then a buttplug.io intensity is fired dynamically depending on the intensity of the physics. Obviously this is asking a lot, and the 1st method will always produce better results... but it also takes more manual effort.

 

Either way, ideally it would be nice if these intensities were separated by body slot or specific bones... This is because a number of people run multiple toys with buttplug.io and the API supports connecting to more than one. Yes... even breast toys exist that work with it

 

I know this is a hard ask but it adds so much more enjoyment to the game... especially when you start getting into mods that have various in-game toys and bondage of their own~

[aslab]

Sometime In the future, maybe 20 years or so down the road sex mods won’t need cut scene. Sex scenes will be seamlessly integrated into the game. There are different animations for armed vs unarmed, there can be different animations for sex interactions and nonsexual interactions. The point is if we stick with a system that was great in 2015, we will miss the golden opportunities of today.

 

Having hooks in the framework that let the sex scene become interactive is far from bloat. In fact, it is in the contrary, hooks will be the first steps in overcoming some of the major limitation of Skyrim. Mod authors and players will love the hooks. These hooks will allow possibilities to open up far beyond Skyrim’s modding dreams (OK maybe I’m exaggerating a bit as people dreamed pretty big).

 

The point is open-source passion will always create the better product over capitalism. And if one once the passion to stay we have to stay in the now, which includes pushing this game to new heights.

[allahere]

56 minutes ago, Beef Cheeks said:

Adding support for buttplug.io would be absolutely stellar~

 

The API is openly documented and the developers at their Discord are more than welcome to answer any questions and provide assistance.

 

Toys ended up implementing support for it by triggering controller vibration events. There's a tool called Intiface Game Haptics Router that can detect controller vibration through XInput and forward it through to buttplug.io framework.

 

This is a very rudimentary implementation though... Ideally it would be neat for the animations to somehow link penetration or maybe even caressing with buttplug.io intensity.

 

I see this being practical in mainly two ways, though there may be more:

 

1. The easy-to-implement way, but more work on the animation authors (maybe, depending on if animation design philosophy doesn't allow this already). Have optional (preferably included) intensity percentages along with the animation frames.... allowing animations to have defined penetration or touch points. So, say someone is caressing your breasts, you could send a intensity of say 15% while it is ongoing, or for the more astute, they could wave it up and down every 15 frames or so...

 

To add onto that, there could be a separate json file for listing these buttplug.io intensities, so that authors that do not wish to invest the time can allow others of the community to add the buttplug.io json files without having to modify the animation lists.

 

Ideally, it would be nice if this was directly integrated into Nemesis or FNIS itself, but I doubt we'll see that happening.

 

2. The hard-to-implement, or maybe impossible method, but lax on the mod authors. Find a way to link physics with buttplug.io. This could lead to very unexpected results. But essentially there could be a way to make it so that when specific bones touch other bones (hand touch labia, etc), then a buttplug.io intensity is fired dynamically depending on the intensity of the physics. Obviously this is asking a lot, and the 1st method will always produce better results... but it also takes more manual effort.

 

Either way, ideally it would be nice if these intensities were separated by body slot or specific bones... This is because a number of people run multiple toys with buttplug.io and the API supports connecting to more than one. Yes... even breast toys exist that work with it

 

I know this is a hard ask but it adds so much more enjoyment to the game... especially when you start getting into mods that have various in-game toys and bondage of their own~

An even more difficult suggestion: bidirectional bpio support. Some toys can give feedback to the game, such as dildo/onahole insertion depth, or even orgasm detection. It would be nice to trigger animation events from this. But these toys are pretty obscure so maybe not worth the effort to implement.

[Beef Cheeks]

26 minutes ago, allahere said:

An even more difficult suggestion: bidirectional bpio support. Some toys can give feedback to the game, such as dildo/onahole insertion depth, or even orgasm detection. It would be nice to trigger animation events from this. But these toys are pretty obscure so maybe not worth the effort to implement.

Thankfully most toys are as simple as syncing the toy list from the API, selecting a toy (either by providing a way for the user to choose one or adding a configuration for setting different toys for different things) and sending a number to the API between 0 and 100. The buttplug.io framework handles all the advanced stuff like connecting to the toy, etc. You can also send rotary-related stuff through the API for rotation-based toys. They are kept separate for safety's sake. But the basic 0-100 motor is a standard for almost everything, so at the very least having that would satisfy most people.

 

EDIT: Just realized that request I made was my 800th post here. Come on Ashal... A little love? :3

Edited September 15, 2023 by Beef Cheeks

[vietthai96]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:01 AM, hompie said:

Thank you Ashal, for being here to get this all started.

This phase of building the framework is SUPER important, because this is what all the animators are going to base their animations of, and this is what enforces the limits of what additional modules can do.

So first of all, I want to make clear that I DO NOT want to return to a Skyrim Sexlab experience of a glorified animation gallery with a Skyrim background. This is a RPG, context, dialogue and branching choices are tantamount to player agency and thus the experience. I realize a lot of you think this is what side mods are for, but those only solve this problem AROUND the sex, not DURING the sex, which is equally as important.

Does Sexlab provide the experience of having sex with someone that might not want to go to the next step, of say, condomless sex? Nope, there is no barrier to this aside from animation tags, which are a very roundabout and underutilised way of sorting things. And the cycling through animations to go through one someone would absolutely not be okay with? Horrible.

 

Osex does allow for some agency within sex, though it does so without words or context. It solves many things, but not all: it plays out the same anywhere so it doesn't feel like it mattered, there's no indication of whether the npc liked something or not, no score to reflect that, nor any barriers to overcome (consent). Nor is there any communication with the npc, be it verbal or nonverbal.

 

A game like Koikatsu/HS2 does account for this, the characters even mention if a position is new or weird to them or not. 

We need to look at other games as well other than just the skyrim experience and try to emulate what works. Koikatsu/HS2 have functioning creampies for example. They also have a pre-penetration state and a pullout/afterglow state, which is more than just phase 1 and phase 5 of an animation sequence; it adds a lot of context and are mechanically different from the sex animation.

A game like Lilith's throne accounts for each participant's kinks and has npcs undress themselves or choose when to penetrate or what position if they are the dominant one.

 

 

So let's get to the meat of my proposals:
 

A list of things that I think should be in the framework and not in additional modules

- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue, with branching options and outcomes, including coming in or outside (or asking for either)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer" (for example, penetrative male during missionary, riding female during cowgirl)

- Logging of what happened, what kind of dialogue was selected, and which animations/sexual actions played during that scene (yes, this is why it is important that we don't just 'cycle through animations'), and who fucked who (esp during three+somes or npc sex). This data could then be used to create or enrich profiles of each npc and yourself.

- Interaction buttons to “pull hair”, spank, pull out etc, if animators provided the animation.
Or to signal you’re enjoying the current moment, which increases an enjoyment score, triggering effects like extra moaning, breathing, blushing or expressions like eye-rolling or ahegao or whatever, and can then result in an earlier orgasm.
Or to say some preset dirty talk lines. Or to undress. Etc etc.

- Time hooks for animators to use so they can signal when particular effects would be happening, such as ejaculations, whether outside or inside. If inside this could then prompt a visual effect for creampies (nonexistent in skyrim) (through another mod of course)

- Consent and skill checks. Some actions (during sex!) and positions would require explicit consent and/or skill checks to do. Choosing a position should therefore be done through dialogue or a special menu that reflects these contextual barriers.

 

 

 

Things to inspire others to make additional modules for with above things in mind

- Player and npcs having their own preferences during sex (some of which they might not know of at the start). For example, someone might consider their hair being pulled a turn on, and this would reflect in modules like Aroused, or in a hypothetical one where you get a Performance Score based on the things they liked. You could then also Score npcs based on how much you liked that particular encounter. And npcs could score you.
This ultimately leads to a personal page of favourite positions, favourite people to have sex with, favourite kinks and other juicy stats.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions as submissive, dominant, sadist, masochist or whatever kind of kink it implies. This data could be used for all kinds of BDSM mods.

- Npc Agency. If the 'Performer' is a npc, they can lead according to their own preferences. Choose particular positions and actions. If you haven’t given consent for a particular action they might try to convince you to, etc.

- Interesting character mods with each their own sexual preferences :). Hopefully those could be reflected by the suggested game mechanics rather than just headcanon.
- What I might try to work on myself: above mechanics integrated into the game's perk system. Fuck x amount of pussy to unlock certain types of positions, or to get proficient in a certain position in such a way that having sex in that position buffs you and/or the npc in particular ways. Give x amount of blowjobs to be able to heal from it, or vice versa. Have sex dominantly to unlock a power to dominate minds, and pass intimidation checks.  Have sex submissively to calm enemies, buff allies and receive discounts. Etc etc, lots of gameplay potential here
 

Thank you for reading, I planned to post this a week ago, but life >.> hope this doesn’t get buried.

 

Wtf bro??, this is we talking about a sex framework, which is the ground for any other feature later down the line, a framework should suppose to do its purpose, a basic framework, a ground for thing to grow up from, what you trying to ask isn't meaning for a framework, but rather add-on mods. Even though i'm not a modder, i understand these basic thing lol

 

Also what you ask is very impractical, game such as Illusion games or others have the entire engine coded solely for sex gameplay, Starfield, Skyrim or any other Bethesda game isn't, Gamebryo back then and now Creation Engine to Creation Engine 2, they isn't developed toward solely sex simulation. Look at Illusion with some of their title, they try to implement actual gameplay along with sex but failed horribly, look at other "promising patreon sex game" and what they turned into???, even with mods, did you every see Honey Select have mods that add gameplay or RPG element???, no because the engine isn't build for that. You asked too many without actual consideration, in order to sastify you, modders essentially need to rebuid the engine, which, to be fair, they don't have time for that shit

 

Sometime, you need to learn to appreciate of what you have, or if you don't you can try to make these feature real though, rather than just asking

Edited September 15, 2023 by vietthai96

[hompie]

On 9/15/2023 at 4:15 PM, vietthai96 said:

Wtf bro??, this is we talking about a sex framework, which is the ground for any other feature later down the line, a framework should suppose to do its purpose, a basic framework, a ground for thing to grow up from, what you trying to ask isn't meaning for a framework, but rather add-on mods. Even though i'm not a modder, i understand these basic thing lol

 

Also what you ask is very impractical, game such as Illusion games or others have the entire engine coded solely for sex gameplay, Starfield, Skyrim or any other Bethesda game isn't, Gamebryo back then and now Creation Engine to Creation Engine 2, they isn't developed toward solely sex simulation. Look at Illusion with some of their title, they try to implement actual gameplay along with sex but failed horribly, look at other "promising patreon sex game" and what they turned into???, even with mods, did you every see Honey Select have mods that add gameplay or RPG element???, no because the engine isn't build for that. You asked too many without actual consideration, in order to sastify you, modders essentially need to rebuid the engine, which, to be fair, they don't have time for that shit

 

Sometime, you need to learn to appreciate of what you have, or if you don't you can try to make these feature real though, rather than just asking

 

I'm not asking for the complete HS2 experience, I just mentioned it so people don't stay in the loverslab bubble, to see what's out there and look at some features we might want to make a mod for down the road. And therefore construct the framework in such a way that it is easier to make those kinds of mods for it.

 

I already said this in a reaction to someone else but I envisioned six features to get all the other fluff started:

1 Interactive menu

2 Interactive buttons

3 Checks, so certain options in the proposed Interactive Menu are greyed out when not unlocked or given permission for

4 Performer and action identification

5 Logging

6 Time hooks in animation

 

These things are absolutely suitable to fit in a framework. The engine does not need to be rebuilt for this. 

 

All the stuff I said about "Perfomance Score", "character profiles" and "kinks" are meant to be different mods that would be possible through this framework if it had above 6 features.

 

And this is not feature bloat, if you look at it, it is actually simple stuff.

Osex already had 1

SLSO had 2, to a certain degree

3 should be relatively easy to code, 

SL had 4, but it was underdeveloped, and not accurate enough

SL had 5, but it was underdeveloped, and invisible, therefore underutilised

6 is new, but I think it should be possible

Edited September 16, 2023 by hompie

[CEO 0S]

@Ashal Your ideas sound awesome. As a user, to me, your vision is flexible and ideal. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I'm looking forward to seeing the next iteration of your incredible work. Best to you, I can't wait to see what you accomplish.

Edited September 15, 2023 by CEO 0S

[TheCaptn]

8 hours ago, hompie said:

4 Performer and action identification

 

If this is in reference to the Male/Female, Penetrator/Penetratee, Dom/Sub actor roles, I agree that it's more important than ever to have those at a framework level now, because of the ingame Enhance! capabilities... In previous games you could get away with setting the player's gender and role in a menu, or letting modules from other modders handle it. But, now that it's entirely in-canon fluid, the framework needs some way to check it before building the animation array. Because it might be entirely different from just 10 minutes earlier in the game, and players shouldn't have to go through changing settings in a menu each time they visit Enhance!.

Edited September 16, 2023 by TheCaptn

[RohZima]

On 9/15/2023 at 12:49 PM, aslab said:

Sometime In the future, maybe 20 years or so down the road sex mods won’t need cut scene. Sex scenes will be seamlessly integrated into the game. There are different animations for armed vs unarmed, there can be different animations for sex interactions and nonsexual interactions. The point is if we stick with a system that was great in 2015, we will miss the golden opportunities of today.

 

 

Having hooks in the framework that let the sex scene become interactive is far from bloat. In fact, it is in the contrary, hooks will be the first steps in overcoming some of the major limitation of Skyrim. Mod authors and players will love the hooks. These hooks will allow possibilities to open up far beyond Skyrim’s modding dreams (OK maybe I’m exaggerating a bit as people dreamed pretty big).

 

 

The point is open-source passion will always create the better product over capitalism. And if one once the passion to stay we have to stay in the now, which includes pushing this game to new heights.

 

 

How do you know we will be making sex mods in 20 years?? ? That's super optimistic. I expect to live in a real life Fallout shelter in 20 years.

 

But jokes aside, I think that is already possible using the tech that exists now but someone would have to put the work in to make the hundreds of animations for each possible 'event' - such as every angle of interaction, plus more for randomness. Then you add in a bit of limited ragdoll physics.

 

Basically just what a game engine does but specifically with lewd content in mind. You would need to have full control of the animation system, which we won't have unless we made it from scratch in Unreal.

 

You could do a haphazard version of that right now in Skyrim with DAR if you could be bothered to make several hundred animations. Just assign the new animation set to conditions, like participants wearing certain rings, and the will interact based on the new animation sets.

[aslab]

10 hours ago, RohZima said:

 

How do you know we will be making sex mods in 20 years?? ? That's super optimistic. I expect to live in a real life Fallout shelter in 20 years.

 

That fallout shelter of your future is AR looking so real. Please try to discern reality from fantasy, if one losses the ability to distinguish dimensions of reality they run the risk of going schizoid. At that time, one may not only have to ask them self if their dreaming they have to also ask if their playing a video game. ?

?

 

So maybe now it’s possible to do a hybrid system. Just like pressing “E” can give an option to open a door, aiming at the breast can give an option to fondle, in which case the farmwork can detect the scenario and choose an appropriate animation. In a fully controlled system one would be able to control the hand movements but in the hybrid system we may get limited control such as the speed of the fondle, and dialogue options that advance animations to another stage.

 

Full control will probably need some kind of simulated glove movements in combination with keyboard control, most likely combined with AR. Today it may be possible to create a system where one aims at a body part, presses “E” which raises an interact menu that states A) Slap Butt B) Fondle Butt ECT... . From there we can get the NPC’s reaction  

 

For this to work there has to be a hit detection system such as precision, where not all slaps will land their mark. Furthermore, if a fondle misses, or the NPC runs away, or slaps the hand away the animation should not continue to play. This will need a lot of work on a farmwork and animation end but a basic interactive system that doesn’t use cut-scenes may be possible today

[Dassu]

First of all, I would like to thank Ashal for taking the initiative. I am sure that through his talent and dedication great things will come to us.

 

Theme among Bethesda games seems to be forward compatibility. Pretty much everything that works in Skyrim seems to also work in Fallout 4 at least when it comes to Papyrus scripting. This begs the question, what can be copied from existing Sexlab and what cannot? If it turns out that most the code can be reused then I believe that is what should be done. The first step should be the identification of the Skyrim specific functionality such as FNIS and then encapsulation of those parts within the Skyrim SexLab framework so that the components can be replaced in the Starfield version. If porting instead of re-creation is the way to go then perhaps the name should not even be changed. From here on out I’m going to refer to the upcoming framework as “StarSex” for the sake of clarity.

 

Whatever is contained within SexLabFramework.psc seems good. However, I believe it could be even more modular to decrease the API size. The way I see it, StarSex should follow GNU design principle: "Do one thing well". In regards to StarSex framework that would be the handling of the animations, nothing more nothing less. Even sounds should be excluded. Instead of thinking “how do I add this great feature” framework creator should think “How can I make it so that somebody else can make this great feature with a plugin”.

 

Possible plugins for StarSex:

 

Core Plugins:

• StarSexSounds

• StarSexExpressions

• StarSexUndress

• StarSexStats

• StarSexSimpleSex

Additional Plugins

• StarSexRape

• StarSexPregnancy

• StarSexSlavery

• StarSexNecrophilia

• StarSexBots

• StarSexHarrassment

…

In terms of the API changes, perhaps it could rely more on generic tags. Atm, it looks like there are a lot tag categories like “race tag”. Why not call all of these just tags?

Examples of animation tags:

• AlienHuman

• Normal

• Rape

• FemaleDominant

• MaleDominant

• DoggyStyle

• Pronebone

• Cowgirl

• Scissors

• Anal

• Lesbian

• Gay

• Straight

• PussyLicking

• Blowjob

• FemaleCum

• MaleCum

Additionally the framework should generate events/hooks which plugins could listen. Example events:

• SexStarted
• SexStopped
• SexPaused
• AnimationStart
• AnimationEnding
• AnimationEnd
• AnimationSpeedChanged
• LeadInStart
• LeadInEnd
• StageStart
• StageEnd
• PositionChange
• ActorsRelocated
• ActorChangeStart
• ActorChangeEnd
• AnimationRegistered

Please note that these are abstractions and the actual implementation could rely on callbacks which return a value if the animation etc can change.

For example StarSexSounds would listen for SexStarted, SexStopped, SexPaused, AnimationStart, AnimationEnd, AnimationSpeedChanged and ActorChangeEnd.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by Dassu

[Dassu]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:01 AM, hompie said:

Thank you Ashal, for being here to get this all started.

This phase of building the framework is SUPER important, because this is what all the animators are going to base their animations of, and this is what enforces the limits of what additional modules can do.

So first of all, I want to make clear that I DO NOT want to return to a Skyrim Sexlab experience of a glorified animation gallery with a Skyrim background. This is a RPG, context, dialogue and branching choices are tantamount to player agency and thus the experience. I realize a lot of you think this is what side mods are for, but those only solve this problem AROUND the sex, not DURING the sex, which is equally as important.

Does Sexlab provide the experience of having sex with someone that might not want to go to the next step, of say, condomless sex? Nope, there is no barrier to this aside from animation tags, which are a very roundabout and underutilised way of sorting things. And the cycling through animations to go through one someone would absolutely not be okay with? Horrible.

 

Osex does allow for some agency within sex, though it does so without words or context. It solves many things, but not all: it plays out the same anywhere so it doesn't feel like it mattered, there's no indication of whether the npc liked something or not, no score to reflect that, nor any barriers to overcome (consent). Nor is there any communication with the npc, be it verbal or nonverbal.

 

A game like Koikatsu/HS2 does account for this, the characters even mention if a position is new or weird to them or not. 

We need to look at other games as well other than just the skyrim experience and try to emulate what works. Koikatsu/HS2 have functioning creampies for example. They also have a pre-penetration state and a pullout/afterglow state, which is more than just phase 1 and phase 5 of an animation sequence; it adds a lot of context and are mechanically different from the sex animation.

A game like Lilith's throne accounts for each participant's kinks and has npcs undress themselves or choose when to penetrate or what position if they are the dominant one.

 

 

So let's get to the meat of my proposals:
 

A list of things that I think should be in the framework and not in additional modules

- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue, with branching options and outcomes, including coming in or outside (or asking for either)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer" (for example, penetrative male during missionary, riding female during cowgirl)

- Logging of what happened, what kind of dialogue was selected, and which animations/sexual actions played during that scene (yes, this is why it is important that we don't just 'cycle through animations'), and who fucked who (esp during three+somes or npc sex). This data could then be used to create or enrich profiles of each npc and yourself.

- Interaction buttons to “pull hair”, spank, pull out etc, if animators provided the animation.
Or to signal you’re enjoying the current moment, which increases an enjoyment score, triggering effects like extra moaning, breathing, blushing or expressions like eye-rolling or ahegao or whatever, and can then result in an earlier orgasm.
Or to say some preset dirty talk lines. Or to undress. Etc etc.

- Time hooks for animators to use so they can signal when particular effects would be happening, such as ejaculations, whether outside or inside. If inside this could then prompt a visual effect for creampies (nonexistent in skyrim) (through another mod of course)

- Consent and skill checks. Some actions (during sex!) and positions would require explicit consent and/or skill checks to do. Choosing a position should therefore be done through dialogue or a special menu that reflects these contextual barriers.

 

 

 

Things to inspire others to make additional modules for with above things in mind

- Player and npcs having their own preferences during sex (some of which they might not know of at the start). For example, someone might consider their hair being pulled a turn on, and this would reflect in modules like Aroused, or in a hypothetical one where you get a Performance Score based on the things they liked. You could then also Score npcs based on how much you liked that particular encounter. And npcs could score you.
This ultimately leads to a personal page of favourite positions, favourite people to have sex with, favourite kinks and other juicy stats.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions as submissive, dominant, sadist, masochist or whatever kind of kink it implies. This data could be used for all kinds of BDSM mods.

- Npc Agency. If the 'Performer' is a npc, they can lead according to their own preferences. Choose particular positions and actions. If you haven’t given consent for a particular action they might try to convince you to, etc.

- Interesting character mods with each their own sexual preferences :). Hopefully those could be reflected by the suggested game mechanics rather than just headcanon.
- What I might try to work on myself: above mechanics integrated into the game's perk system. Fuck x amount of pussy to unlock certain types of positions, or to get proficient in a certain position in such a way that having sex in that position buffs you and/or the npc in particular ways. Give x amount of blowjobs to be able to heal from it, or vice versa. Have sex dominantly to unlock a power to dominate minds, and pass intimidation checks.  Have sex submissively to calm enemies, buff allies and receive discounts. Etc etc, lots of gameplay potential here
 

Thank you for reading, I planned to post this a week ago, but life >.> hope this doesn’t get buried.

 

I like everything you said.

I think these should be included in the framework.

- Time Hooks: Hooks are already a thing within SexLab. I think StarSex hooks should be able to stop the progression, continue the progression and revert. Maybe there is even a way to make them call a fallback function so that one could create really advanced things.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions: SexLab supports this through animation tags

- Disable player controls: Ability to call a function within StarSex to disable player controls so that player can no longer end, start nor change animations.

 

These can be included within plugins
- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue: This can be implemented with a hook that would block the transition, play a transitional animation, start a dialog (vanilla dialog might not be a way to go here) and finally unblock/revert the transition based on what happened during the dialog. (StarSexChoices)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer": This could be implemented with animation tags "MaleDominant" and "FemaleDominant". In SexLab animation tags are strings and it looks like one can create these arbitrarily. 

- Logging of what happened: This can be bundled within the same plugin that handles the dialog sex scenes (StarSexChoices)

- Interaction buttons: This can be implemented with a plugin that calls StarSex functions to play certain animation when certain button is pressed. (StarSexActions)

- Consent and skill checks: Levels feature can be implemented within a plugin that monitors StarSex events/hooks. Dialog sex plugin could utilize information for StarSexLevels to decide if certain dialog path is allowed.

- Player and npcs having their own preferences: I'm a little lost here. How would this affect anything? If it is just a stats page then I guess this could be done in a plugin. The plugin would first generate random preferences for a NPC and then listen to StarSex events/hooks to decide whether the player pleased her.

- Npc Agency: This can be done with a plugin. The plugin should first disable player controls and then call different functions within StarSex framework to control the act. The plugin could even contain advanced UI's (swf) that would present dialogs etc.

- Interesting character mods

Edited September 17, 2023 by Dassu

[robert_d_negro]

so currently there are 3 ongoing projects active that are required for a framework in starfield

 

1. ck2, projected release 2024

2. new nifscope tools (as porting from skyrim is a nogo - this is a setback) i guess the prjojected release here is a few weeks to a few months 

3. bodyslide (not really required but its depended on nifscope)

 

Quote

- Player and npcs having their own preferences: I'm a little lost here. How would this affect anything? If it is just a stats page then I guess this could be done in a plugin. The plugin would first generate random preferences for a NPC and then listen to StarSex events/hooks to decide whether the player pleased her.

 

i think a solution here would be to focus on the npc, create behavior plugins that are attached to every non generic npc (example: lesbian/gay/hetro/dom/sub/rapist bandit or even more uniqe ones like andreja, barett etc...) so every npc comes with his own set of animations (ideally with ai generated sounds that are also part of the plugin).

Edited September 16, 2023 by robert_d_negro

[Trykz]

Again, I want to suggest managing expectations.

 

I see a great many suggestions for what to include/exclude from a framework.

Many of which seem sensible, and some others that may be better handled by

other plugins made for the framework.

 

I've a feeling that @Ashal will already have his hands full just figuring out how

to code in the volume of features that SexLab has. IF that's even possible. So until

we know more, I still believe that the focus should be "intuitive and effective".

 

As I recall, SexLab had multiple iterations before Ashal decided enough was enough.

I suspect pretty much the same for Starfield. Simple and effective out of the gate, with

feature updates here and there until he decides the rest is up to plugin authors.

 

Do we know for certain what the animation system is? Havok? Something else?

Has anyone extracted and had a look at the vanilla animations/behaviors yet?

[mikey7979]

Has Bethesda even given an ETA as to when they will release the Creation Kit 2?

[ebbluminous]

19 minutes ago, mikey7979 said:

Has Bethesda even given an ETA as to when they will release the Creation Kit 2?

2024. At some point in 2024. If it doesn't get delayed.

[Trykz]

16 minutes ago, ebbluminous said:

2024. At some point in 2024. If it doesn't get delayed.

 

That's what I heard as well. Sometime in Q1-2.

 

But honestly, the CK isn't as important as many of the other tools. Like NifSkope.

And whatever tools animators need, of course. Any of the "base" tools, really.

Without those, nothing else happens except whatever simple stuff the CK will

let you do. Cell editing, quest creation, texture editing, etc..

 

At this point, I'm getting the feeling that I might have to devise some new method

to get custom humanoid races into this game, because I'm not sure if the terminals

can be scripted like FO4's to perform a race swap. Chargen isn't going to be an option

in this game, like it wasn't in FO4. Both games stick strictly to "human" for playable

race. So it isn't like Skyrim where you have multiple "sub-races" to choose from.

 

If anyone can confirm even a simple thing like a quest advancing a stage while using

a terminal, please let me know.

 

TIA

[josephreading771@gmail.com]

On 8/26/2023 at 8:28 AM, xXDeliteXx said:

What's wrong with going for a more of an Ostim kind of UI and functionality?
Isn't it open source already?
Not that I hate Sexlab, I really appreciate it's existence.
But it seems like it may be "two steps back" in terms of next-gen.

Yeah OStim seemed more "next-gen" maybe sexlab needs a new UI update and such.

[xXDeliteXx]

1 hour ago, josephreading771@gmail.com said:

Yeah OStim seemed more "next-gen" maybe sexlab needs a new UI update and such.

Very true. However I'm extremely fixated on the seamless animation transitions.
The UI together is amazing.

[draeneis]

if i can make an animation in blender and then it goes into starfield when i push a button, thats like a million lines of code probably and fifty smart people for a month or something. the animation i have in mind... anyway thanks a lot again wow!!!!!

[mickwopper]

Earlier there were concerns that the suits were part of the body, but I don't think that's the case.

When you do a 'showInventory' on an NPC it shows 2 of the NPC's equipped suits.

I'm pretty sure there are duplicates in the NPC's inventory and one set is locked and hidden to the NPC so that you can't make them nude.

 

[SleepyNinja]

On 9/18/2023 at 11:53 AM, mickwopper said:

Earlier there were concerns that the suits were part of the body, but I don't think that's the case.

When you do a 'showInventory' on an NPC it shows 2 of the NPC's equipped suits.

I'm pretty sure there are duplicates in the NPC's inventory and one set is locked and hidden to the NPC so that you can't make them nude.

 

So essentially it's the Skyrim follower rule, where you can't access their equipped gear through normal gameplay but this time applied to everyone in the game. Oh Todd, thought you could play 4D chess against us. This should be easy to tackle. Plus, I think there's a mod already that unequips gear

[Pornstache Pete]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:53 AM, mickwopper said:

Earlier there were concerns that the suits were part of the body, but I don't think that's the case.

When you do a 'showInventory' on an NPC it shows 2 of the NPC's equipped suits.

I'm pretty sure there are duplicates in the NPC's inventory and one set is locked and hidden to the NPC so that you can't make them nude.

 

Running "removeallitems" will also indeed (as in any TES/Fallout game) remove what the NPCs have equipped, leaving 'em naked (or at least as naked as characters can be in unmodded Bethesda games).

 

If it's possible to unlock follower/companion inventories to unhide normally-hidden inventory items (and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't), then it should be just as possible to do the same for any other NPC.

 

Non-spacesuit example:

 

EDIT: spacesuit example before/after.  Looks like forcibly unequipping an NPC's spacesuit like this leaves the body invisible.

 

EDIT 2: unequipping the helmet/spacesuit/pack with "unequipitem $base_id" (in that order) didn't fix the invisible body issue, nor did equipping clothing... but I was able to confirm that unequipping a worn item makes it available for looting, so that's nice.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Pornstache Pete

[ezrken]

Just want to say, i hated fallout's sex framework personally it felt very constrained, Skyrim had more of everything for everyone, from creatures to slavery to romance to toys and the mods had/have a quality to them which makes me feel that game was shipped with them, meanwhile aaf felt like it was added to fallout, i don't mind waiting a few years but i hope we get same feel that Skyrim gives us, like we can do anything we want. 

[vallixas]

Yeah, they went back to the Skyrim way of hiding their default gear, while also keeping the Fallout 4 ability to equip whatever we want on them, again most likely they needed to, because companions auto-equip their spacesuits so that they aren't constantly dying in toxic areas and they needed to auto-equip the jetpacks because they're constantly using them in combat, or to get to areas you boost on. So being able to remove their packs would probably screw up their AI a bit in fights. But unequipall reveals they all have undies models. I'm also surprised at how detailed the legs/knees are, Beth did better than Cyberpunk's goofy ass looking knees thats for sure lol.

 

Edited September 20, 2023 by vallixas