Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[GetTalon]

Not a modder but this would be big for the defeat mods when they're out- immediate sex initiation, like Fallout 3 sexus.
By far the worst part of Sexout, Sexlab and AAF was having to wait because the script had to do so many checks for extra actors, clothes, races, etc.. it was almost funny how long it took for the actors to beep boop and nonchalantly walk around 3 tables and 6 chairs to get to each other, only to freeze in place and idle like a senile American senator

Also press a button on a low health npc to do or be low on health and in melee distance to get done.

Forced stripping and restraining animations before sex would be good too but I don't think the modding community has ever been able to do them properly

Also keeping 1st person camera in anims. Personally I don't mind how shaky they are

Edited September 11, 2023 by GetTalon

[Anunya]

... another function it might be cool to have support for is to speed up / slow down animations during the sex scene.

[HoodedDream]

17 hours ago, Ashal said:

 

I'm a sci-fi nerd, so Starfield's setting and themes appeal to me a lot more. I'm also just enjoying the game more than I enjoyed Fallout 4.

 

I wanted to like Fallout 4 but found its gameplay boring and clunky, and I didn't like spending time in its world. Not to mention by the time modding tools came out and making something for Fallout 4 became more viable, I was very checked out of the game. Hopefully, the delay in modding tools being released for Starfield doesn't have the same result.

 

 

I also couldn't get into Fallout 4!

 

Starfield feels like a much more open sandbox to add varied content and it feels like a lot of their systems around crafting / planets & poi discovery / spaceships - that modding has a lot more seamless hooks into gameplay without cell & leveledlist fighting, I have a lot of high hopes!

 

Thanks for taking the time respond.

[aslab]

For me the obvious biggest flaw besides for script hang up is mispositioning. Somehow the important bits should be prioritized over the rest of the body. I’d be OK if the arms are going through a floor if the dick is properly penetrating the mouth.  

 

The next hope is an interactive system. In this system a demand or request may be given during a scene. The player can then control the action through a controller. For instance, the PC may be asked to lie down, or bend over. The PC may be asked to move their head or hips at a certain speed which can be accomplished by hitting a button at that speed.

 

Overall, an interactive system with proper alignment would be great. The characters should look so lifelike that one can almost forget it’s an animation. And creation kit should be so easy to use that any gamer who wants to tell a story can create one.

 

[TheCaptn]

On 9/10/2023 at 8:52 PM, SleepyNinja said:

Ok so I know like 99% of you guys don't want an Ostim framework me included. Sexlab was far superior in terms of functionality. However I found myself using Ostim alot more over the past couple months due to better animation rigging despite the lack of functionality. I found the vanilla sex in Ostim quite relaxing with included mods. I remembered back in 2018 when I got a pc and started to play Skyrim. I downloaded Sexlab and I remember how much of a chore to get animations to rig right. Increasing values, decreasing values. pausing and unpausing. Restarting animations over and over again just see my dick clip through the chicks stomach....

I think it's more like 75% : 25%, since there's been quite a bit of love of OSA in this thread... I think the question to focus on for now is; what are the features of SexLab/AAF/OSA that could come together well in a 1st Generation framework for Starfield... I don't think we can reasonably expect a framework that compares out-of-the-box to 5 or 10 years of development on previous ones, but I do think we have enough insight now to determine what worked, was fun enough for players to get started and modular enough for animators and mod-modders to get started.

I also mostly used OSA in the last couple of years and I can sum up why pretty easily: Once you had a handle on the controls, which really didn't take long, it was the most immersive way to initiate 2-actor sex interactions, mostly with followers for me, but occasionally NPCs like Haelga.

[WA1KER885]

I just hope that Starfield sex framework will not be so shitty as AAF.

AAF for F4 sucks compared to sexlab for Skyrim, there are not detailed options: scaling, stripping, sound, tags, positions, and so on, while sexlab has A LOT. And sexlab tools does even more.

Btw, does someone knows why there are so few animations in AAF for F4? I installed all that I could find, and there are still few. While my Skyrim even for rare dragon priest race partner (!) has various animations.

[912s4dd]

I would like to see an advanced animation framework without sex content.

Support a wide range of features to drive animation (custom animations, tags, repositioning or movement, interactions with various objectifications), which will eventually lead to the creation of a 
Animation.start(Tag, Player, Actor01, .... ); which can be driven by, 

It would be nice to have one framework that would be considered a required base for Starfield mods.
It would be much simpler and easier to maintain and evolve if the animation part was all handled by that framework and the sex content was built on top of it. 

[GetTalon]

2 hours ago, WA1KER885 said:

I just hope that Starfield sex framework will not be so shitty as AAF.

AAF for F4 sucks compared to sexlab for Skyrim, there are not detailed options: scaling, stripping, sound, tags, positions, and so on, while sexlab has A LOT. And sexlab tools does even more.

Btw, does someone knows why there are so few animations in AAF for F4? I installed all that I could find, and there are still few. While my Skyrim even for rare dragon priest race partner (!) has various animations.

Agreed, I'd happily wait a year or two longer for a better framework

[ebbluminous]

2 hours ago, WA1KER885 said:

I just hope that Starfield sex framework will not be so shitty as AAF.

AAF for F4 sucks compared to sexlab for Skyrim, there are not detailed options: scaling, stripping, sound, tags, positions, and so on, while sexlab has A LOT. And sexlab tools does even more.

Btw, does someone knows why there are so few animations in AAF for F4? I installed all that I could find, and there are still few. While my Skyrim even for rare dragon priest race partner (!) has various animations.

FO4 has a smaller modding scene, plus what you said about AAF doesn't help

[cavscoutmaddog]

I think you could start with a sex mod dialogue without animations like FO4 Violate (without AAF). Picture this...you have a normal gameplay mission, but when the persuade option appears instead of credits it a sex act listed in options. Then as soon as the sex option is selected the screen goes dark then the sound of a smack across the face is heard. A paragraph appears saying "Suddenly a sharp pain is felt on your face. before you can recover (the sound of a zipper is heard) you are grubbed by the hair and (description of sex act and blah, blah, sound of sex, struggle and swallow etc.). The paragraph/black screen fades and back to normal play. Have papyrus keep track of your submissiveness/whorish tendencies in future persuasion dialogues. No actual animations needed until that is remedied, if ever with an AAF or equivalent . Only dialogue and tracking sex history would be needed. On first play of the mod it could ask your sex preference and preference to customize the dialogue.

[Tempest_Art]

@Ashal It would be cool if you try to implement more advanced technologies in framework. Like procedural animation instead of actor scaling or so. I think this would be useful for people who do animations.

 

I also want to say on the topic of some functional that proposed in this topic, for example OSex UI. I think this is superfluous for the framework mod for other mods.

[hompie]

Thank you Ashal, for being here to get this all started.

This phase of building the framework is SUPER important, because this is what all the animators are going to base their animations of, and this is what enforces the limits of what additional modules can do.

So first of all, I want to make clear that I DO NOT want to return to a Skyrim Sexlab experience of a glorified animation gallery with a Skyrim background. This is a RPG, context, dialogue and branching choices are tantamount to player agency and thus the experience. I realize a lot of you think this is what side mods are for, but those only solve this problem AROUND the sex, not DURING the sex, which is equally as important.

Does Sexlab provide the experience of having sex with someone that might not want to go to the next step, of say, condomless sex? Nope, there is no barrier to this aside from animation tags, which are a very roundabout and underutilised way of sorting things. And the cycling through animations to go through one someone would absolutely not be okay with? Horrible.

 

Osex does allow for some agency within sex, though it does so without words or context. It solves many things, but not all: it plays out the same anywhere so it doesn't feel like it mattered, there's no indication of whether the npc liked something or not, no score to reflect that, nor any barriers to overcome (consent). Nor is there any communication with the npc, be it verbal or nonverbal.

 

A game like Koikatsu/HS2 does account for this, the characters even mention if a position is new or weird to them or not. 

We need to look at other games as well other than just the skyrim experience and try to emulate what works. Koikatsu/HS2 have functioning creampies for example. They also have a pre-penetration state and a pullout/afterglow state, which is more than just phase 1 and phase 5 of an animation sequence; it adds a lot of context and are mechanically different from the sex animation.

A game like Lilith's throne accounts for each participant's kinks and has npcs undress themselves or choose when to penetrate or what position if they are the dominant one.

 

 

So let's get to the meat of my proposals:
 

A list of things that I think should be in the framework and not in additional modules

- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue, with branching options and outcomes, including coming in or outside (or asking for either)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer" (for example, penetrative male during missionary, riding female during cowgirl)

- Logging of what happened, what kind of dialogue was selected, and which animations/sexual actions played during that scene (yes, this is why it is important that we don't just 'cycle through animations'), and who fucked who (esp during three+somes or npc sex). This data could then be used to create or enrich profiles of each npc and yourself.

- Interaction buttons to “pull hair”, spank, pull out etc, if animators provided the animation.
Or to signal you’re enjoying the current moment, which increases an enjoyment score, triggering effects like extra moaning, breathing, blushing or expressions like eye-rolling or ahegao or whatever, and can then result in an earlier orgasm.
Or to say some preset dirty talk lines. Or to undress. Etc etc.

- Time hooks for animators to use so they can signal when particular effects would be happening, such as ejaculations, whether outside or inside. If inside this could then prompt a visual effect for creampies (nonexistent in skyrim) (through another mod of course)

- Consent and skill checks. Some actions (during sex!) and positions would require explicit consent and/or skill checks to do. Choosing a position should therefore be done through dialogue or a special menu that reflects these contextual barriers.

 

 

 

Things to inspire others to make additional modules for with above things in mind

- Player and npcs having their own preferences during sex (some of which they might not know of at the start). For example, someone might consider their hair being pulled a turn on, and this would reflect in modules like Aroused, or in a hypothetical one where you get a Performance Score based on the things they liked. You could then also Score npcs based on how much you liked that particular encounter. And npcs could score you.
This ultimately leads to a personal page of favourite positions, favourite people to have sex with, favourite kinks and other juicy stats.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions as submissive, dominant, sadist, masochist or whatever kind of kink it implies. This data could be used for all kinds of BDSM mods.

- Npc Agency. If the 'Performer' is a npc, they can lead according to their own preferences. Choose particular positions and actions. If you haven’t given consent for a particular action they might try to convince you to, etc.

- Interesting character mods with each their own sexual preferences :). Hopefully those could be reflected by the suggested game mechanics rather than just headcanon.
- What I might try to work on myself: above mechanics integrated into the game's perk system. Fuck x amount of pussy to unlock certain types of positions, or to get proficient in a certain position in such a way that having sex in that position buffs you and/or the npc in particular ways. Give x amount of blowjobs to be able to heal from it, or vice versa. Have sex dominantly to unlock a power to dominate minds, and pass intimidation checks.  Have sex submissively to calm enemies, buff allies and receive discounts. Etc etc, lots of gameplay potential here
 

Thank you for reading, I planned to post this a week ago, but life >.> hope this doesn’t get buried.

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by hompie

[Halstrom]

A lot of things depend on how big the Starfield community eventually gets too, I suspect it might be larger than Fallout, but maybe not as big as Skyrim.

[AManNamedNorvile]

11 hours ago, hompie said:

Thank you Ashal, for being here to get this all started.

This phase of building the framework is SUPER important, because this is what all the animators are going to base their animations of, and this is what enforces the limits of what additional modules can do.

So first of all, I want to make clear that I DO NOT want to return to a Skyrim Sexlab experience of a glorified animation gallery with a Skyrim background. This is a RPG, context, dialogue and branching choices are tantamount to player agency and thus the experience. I realize a lot of you think this is what side mods are for, but those only solve this problem AROUND the sex, not DURING the sex, which is equally as important.

Does Sexlab provide the experience of having sex with someone that might not want to go to the next step, of say, condomless sex? Nope, there is no barrier to this aside from animation tags, which are a very roundabout and underutilised way of sorting things. And the cycling through animations to go through one someone would absolutely not be okay with? Horrible.

 

Osex does allow for some agency within sex, though it does so without words or context. It solves many things, but not all: it plays out the same anywhere so it doesn't feel like it mattered, there's no indication of whether the npc liked something or not, no score to reflect that, nor any barriers to overcome (consent). Nor is there any communication with the npc, be it verbal or nonverbal.

 

A game like Koikatsu/HS2 does account for this, the characters even mention if a position is new or weird to them or not. 

We need to look at other games as well other than just the skyrim experience and try to emulate what works. Koikatsu/HS2 have functioning creampies for example. They also have a pre-penetration state and a pullout/afterglow state, which is more than just phase 1 and phase 5 of an animation sequence; it adds a lot of context and are mechanically different from the sex animation.

A game like Lilith's throne accounts for each participant's kinks and has npcs undress themselves or choose when to penetrate or what position if they are the dominant one.

 

 

So let's get to the meat of my proposals:
 

A list of things that I think should be in the framework and not in additional modules

- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue, with branching options and outcomes, including coming in or outside (or asking for either)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer" (for example, penetrative male during missionary, riding female during cowgirl)

- Logging of what happened, what kind of dialogue was selected, and which animations/sexual actions played during that scene (yes, this is why it is important that we don't just 'cycle through animations'), and who fucked who (esp during three+somes or npc sex). This data could then be used to create or enrich profiles of each npc and yourself.

- Interaction buttons to “pull hair”, spank, pull out etc, if animators provided the animation.
Or to signal you’re enjoying the current moment, which increases an enjoyment score, triggering effects like extra moaning, breathing, blushing or expressions like eye-rolling or ahegao or whatever, and can then result in an earlier orgasm.
Or to say some preset dirty talk lines. Or to undress. Etc etc.

- Time hooks for animators to use so they can signal when particular effects would be happening, such as ejaculations, whether outside or inside. If inside this could then prompt a visual effect for creampies (nonexistent in skyrim) (through another mod of course)

- Consent and skill checks. Some actions (during sex!) and positions would require explicit consent and/or skill checks to do. Choosing a position should therefore be done through dialogue or a special menu that reflects these contextual barriers.

 

 

 

Things to inspire others to make additional modules for with above things in mind

- Player and npcs having their own preferences during sex (some of which they might not know of at the start). For example, someone might consider their hair being pulled a turn on, and this would reflect in modules like Aroused, or in a hypothetical one where you get a Performance Score based on the things they liked. You could then also Score npcs based on how much you liked that particular encounter. And npcs could score you.
This ultimately leads to a personal page of favourite positions, favourite people to have sex with, favourite kinks and other juicy stats.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions as submissive, dominant, sadist, masochist or whatever kind of kink it implies. This data could be used for all kinds of BDSM mods.

- Npc Agency. If the 'Performer' is a npc, they can lead according to their own preferences. Choose particular positions and actions. If you haven’t given consent for a particular action they might try to convince you to, etc.

- Interesting character mods with each their own sexual preferences :). Hopefully those could be reflected by the suggested game mechanics rather than just headcanon.
- What I might try to work on myself: above mechanics integrated into the game's perk system. Fuck x amount of pussy to unlock certain types of positions, or to get proficient in a certain position in such a way that having sex in that position buffs you and/or the npc in particular ways. Give x amount of blowjobs to be able to heal from it, or vice versa. Have sex dominantly to unlock a power to dominate minds, and pass intimidation checks.  Have sex submissively to calm enemies, buff allies and receive discounts. Etc etc, lots of gameplay potential here
 

Thank you for reading, I planned to post this a week ago, but life >.> hope this doesn’t get buried.

 

This sounds really good, and interesting. I'm no Modder, so forgive me if what im saying might be ridiculous, but you have remember everything has limitations, especially mods. and as far as I know, mods have to work with the game, so im just not sure how possible something like this can be.

Also games like Koikatsu and HS2 are built solely around Sex. Honey Select 2 for example, runs on Unity which is a pretty accessible and multi-purpose engine. however Games like Starfield, Fallout, Skyrim all run on Engines designed just for them. (Starfield uses Creation Engine 2 unlike Skyrim and FO4 which use Creation Engine). if you really want an in-depth sex simulator, then I would suggest playing the games you mentioned.


Like I stated previously, im not a modder so im not really educated on modding and how possible it would be to add a framework like the one you're mentioning, however I do know some of the things you're suggesting should be possible.

take everything I say with a grain of salt. the main purpose of this comment is just to remind ourselves to not get our hopes and expectations too high.

[LeahLust]

Well I am really looking forward to this type of content. I can already imagine Nuka Ride in space... Intergalactic porn star quest line. Going from planet to planet, even ships to film in special locations. 

I would do things myself if I knew how. Modeling and animations are my thing, but not much experience with these engines.

 

PS. These Mars marines are rooting for you all modders! Funny non-modded game glitch.. Walked past me in straight line saying "Its a tough job, but someone's gotta do it" 

(Also proof that there is a body under that NPC suit) 

[SleepyNinja]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:47 PM, TheCaptn said:

I think it's more like 75% : 25%, since there's been quite a bit of love of OSA in this thread... I think the question to focus on for now is; what are the features of SexLab/AAF/OSA that could come together well in a 1st Generation framework for Starfield... I don't think we can reasonably expect a framework that compares out-of-the-box to 5 or 10 years of development on previous ones, but I do think we have enough insight now to determine what worked, was fun enough for players to get started and modular enough for animators and mod-modders to get started.

I also mostly used OSA in the last couple of years and I can sum up why pretty easily: Once you had a handle on the controls, which really didn't take long, it was the most immersive way to initiate 2-actor sex interactions, mostly with followers for me, but occasionally NPCs like Haelga.

Yeah I only read the first 3 pages, many people agreed with that one guy who thought OSA was 1 dimensional and wanted something similar to SexLab. I comeback and read the next page over and a dev at Ostim was like "Yeah, we're bringing Ostim to Space" and he got alot of support sooo moral of the story is read before you type I guess? The American Educational System has failed me lol.

 

 

As far as first generational frameworks go, I believe an animator should work with @Ashal so it doesn't become AFF 2.0 and idk if SexLab had animations when it first launched. I got on Skyrim modding pretty late and SexLab already had animations with it. So idk if it's a case of the author adding those animations later or the modders working along side the author during the creation of SexLab.

 

And I agree, I had to think about what a framework does and what we can expect from StarField. Todd went on record the other day and mentions that the modding potential will be way bigger than Skyrim and Fallout and I'm thinking he is going to make Creation Engine 2 open-source? That can't be that's financial suicide, but maybe allow modders to have more tools than previous iterations? I have no idea but I do know that Todd and the whole of Bethesda want modders having access to Creation Engine 2. Because money obviously lmao.

 

I wonder if Disney will approve of Star Wars content if it means they get a cut. Microsoft won't care about the halo stuff being ripped from their games, in fact I call it now, they going sell it to you in the creation club, watch.

[Travestea]

5 minutes ago, SleepyNinja said:

Todd went on record the other day and mentions that the modding potential will be way bigger than Skyrim and Fallout

 

Todd has also been known to exaggerate his claims to the point it's a meme. "16 times the details." "It just works."

 

You know what the best "way bigger potential" feature would be? Native support for new/custom animations. A way inside the kit to add new animations and behaviors for them. Would remove the need for a program like Nemesis.

[RohZima]

I have been watching this thread since it was posted but didn't know really what to say, so I'll just make some general points.

 

It's a framework for content mods to hook into, so it should be as light as possible. It seems to me that games, software and mods are defeated by bloat & feature mess more than anything - too much choice splitting communities. And the criticism of Sexlab was almost totally to do with what it did that people wanted to remove, rather than what it didn't do that people wanted to add.

 

So:

 

Ability to quickly add/remove animations with small learning curve (for animators - no phd required).

 

Tracking stats for mods to be able to hook into but ability to hide that (sex diary - pain for ocd peole).

 

I can already see people wanting to force their play style and use on everyone (smh). LOTS of people never wanted to use Arounsed or DD, and dialogue lines poorly written or even well written will quickly become tedious so none of that PERSONAL stuff should be forced on everyone.

 

It should just be a framework that allows you to toggle features on or off as a rule, and I would hesitate to add anything subjective unless it can definitely be toggled off or hidden.

 

Hard filters on types of content that will play (same sex for instance).

 

Stability, performance, smooth transitions, etc. But obviously you are a developer, I'm just an animator so I have no idea what makes it run smooth or not.

 

Good luck to you!

 

I still love Sexlab to this day and I also love AAF. As an animator, if I do make anims for Starfield, I would definitely support both types of framework if they exist.

[SadSun]

Spoiler

I like the idea of a 'choose your own adventure' type system.  provide original conditions or options (depending on if you're going to have a say in the upcoming events) up front that drives the rest of the act. (Example: consensual, sub, dom / noncon, sub, dom,  etc..)  Then treat the event as a tree of ever expanding positions.  You choose the base position (doggy, missionary, cow whatever... etc), then expand from there.  If you would like to change from doggy to cow whatever, you would then choose the cow whatever base position and start branching out again.

 

The framework could start out with a single branch of positions, tagged to match the starting conditions. (consensual, sub, dom / noncon, sub, dom,  etc..)

 

Example:

 

     Position1, position2, position3

 

Then an animator at a later date would be able to interrupt this single branch with an animation of his own.  Designating through tags where his animation falls in this group.

 

(so I make an animation that falls between position1 and position 3,  I would just tag that animation as being a 'position2' (consensual, sub) animation and an option to choose either animation would show up in the selection menu when choosing the second position.  Some animations may fall into multiple 'positions' and could be chosen at any time during it's availability.)

 

So you could then have.

 

     Position1, altposition2, position3

 

After more animations are added.

 

     Position1, altposition2, altposition3

 

or,

 

     Position1, position2, altposition3

 

This way an animator could contribute to the animations even if he/she just made a single animation, and you could choose it if you wanted during its availability within the 'session'.

 

If you have a dominated session where the player isn't in control.  The framework would randomly choose between the animations that are available.  That way you wouldn't know where the session was going until it went.

 

jm2c

The above was my (Unused) thoughts for the fallout 4 mod that eventually turned into aaf. These Ideas would still be nice, but I got swatted when I posted it way back then. I guess rightfully so, as I still don't know exactly what is contained within the definition of a "framework".

 

Maybe this time focus more on alignment  of actors, playing animaitons and limiting destination animations.

 

An example: You've hit on a nurse and followed her back to her room. Framework finds that the nurse is fully clothed and presents animation options of all the animations that fit that situation :Undress, Kiss, Hold Hands, Hug, Push away, Tease, exit, etc. Through someone elses mod, you choose Hug. Framework aligns actors and plays animation, then spits out another list of possibilities.

[Atmol]

In principle, I agree with everything that was written above, we really should make a flexible framework basis on which it will be possible to add various modules that will be to the taste of this or that person, the main thing is that these modules can be added for the most part without increasing the limit of esp files if we have the same restriction on them quantity. Another good solution would be that the framework would be open source, then we could optimize it with joint efforts and adding modules to it would also be easier. I hope we can create a good framework together.

[WA1KER885]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:01 AM, hompie said:

Thank you Ashal, for being here to get this all started.

This phase of building the framework is SUPER important, because this is what all the animators are going to base their animations of, and this is what enforces the limits of what additional modules can do.

So first of all, I want to make clear that I DO NOT want to return to a Skyrim Sexlab experience of a glorified animation gallery with a Skyrim background. This is a RPG, context, dialogue and branching choices are tantamount to player agency and thus the experience. I realize a lot of you think this is what side mods are for, but those only solve this problem AROUND the sex, not DURING the sex, which is equally as important.

Does Sexlab provide the experience of having sex with someone that might not want to go to the next step, of say, condomless sex? Nope, there is no barrier to this aside from animation tags, which are a very roundabout and underutilised way of sorting things. And the cycling through animations to go through one someone would absolutely not be okay with? Horrible.

 

Osex does allow for some agency within sex, though it does so without words or context. It solves many things, but not all: it plays out the same anywhere so it doesn't feel like it mattered, there's no indication of whether the npc liked something or not, no score to reflect that, nor any barriers to overcome (consent). Nor is there any communication with the npc, be it verbal or nonverbal.

 

A game like Koikatsu/HS2 does account for this, the characters even mention if a position is new or weird to them or not. 

We need to look at other games as well other than just the skyrim experience and try to emulate what works. Koikatsu/HS2 have functioning creampies for example. They also have a pre-penetration state and a pullout/afterglow state, which is more than just phase 1 and phase 5 of an animation sequence; it adds a lot of context and are mechanically different from the sex animation.

A game like Lilith's throne accounts for each participant's kinks and has npcs undress themselves or choose when to penetrate or what position if they are the dominant one.

 

 

So let's get to the meat of my proposals:
 

A list of things that I think should be in the framework and not in additional modules

- Ability to choose and progress sex through dialogue, with branching options and outcomes, including coming in or outside (or asking for either)

- Discernment of who is the main "performer" (for example, penetrative male during missionary, riding female during cowgirl)

- Logging of what happened, what kind of dialogue was selected, and which animations/sexual actions played during that scene (yes, this is why it is important that we don't just 'cycle through animations'), and who fucked who (esp during three+somes or npc sex). This data could then be used to create or enrich profiles of each npc and yourself.

- Interaction buttons to “pull hair”, spank, pull out etc, if animators provided the animation.
Or to signal you’re enjoying the current moment, which increases an enjoyment score, triggering effects like extra moaning, breathing, blushing or expressions like eye-rolling or ahegao or whatever, and can then result in an earlier orgasm.
Or to say some preset dirty talk lines. Or to undress. Etc etc.

- Time hooks for animators to use so they can signal when particular effects would be happening, such as ejaculations, whether outside or inside. If inside this could then prompt a visual effect for creampies (nonexistent in skyrim) (through another mod of course)

- Consent and skill checks. Some actions (during sex!) and positions would require explicit consent and/or skill checks to do. Choosing a position should therefore be done through dialogue or a special menu that reflects these contextual barriers.

 

 

 

Things to inspire others to make additional modules for with above things in mind

- Player and npcs having their own preferences during sex (some of which they might not know of at the start). For example, someone might consider their hair being pulled a turn on, and this would reflect in modules like Aroused, or in a hypothetical one where you get a Performance Score based on the things they liked. You could then also Score npcs based on how much you liked that particular encounter. And npcs could score you.
This ultimately leads to a personal page of favourite positions, favourite people to have sex with, favourite kinks and other juicy stats.

- Tag certain sex actions or positions as submissive, dominant, sadist, masochist or whatever kind of kink it implies. This data could be used for all kinds of BDSM mods.

- Npc Agency. If the 'Performer' is a npc, they can lead according to their own preferences. Choose particular positions and actions. If you haven’t given consent for a particular action they might try to convince you to, etc.

- Interesting character mods with each their own sexual preferences :). Hopefully those could be reflected by the suggested game mechanics rather than just headcanon.
- What I might try to work on myself: above mechanics integrated into the game's perk system. Fuck x amount of pussy to unlock certain types of positions, or to get proficient in a certain position in such a way that having sex in that position buffs you and/or the npc in particular ways. Give x amount of blowjobs to be able to heal from it, or vice versa. Have sex dominantly to unlock a power to dominate minds, and pass intimidation checks.  Have sex submissively to calm enemies, buff allies and receive discounts. Etc etc, lots of gameplay potential here
 

Thank you for reading, I planned to post this a week ago, but life >.> hope this doesn’t get buried.

 

Man, what the f are you talking about? Sexlab is ONLY framework. It does nothing itself, it can only start animation with given parameters (time, place, stripping, camera, sound, position and so on). And so AAF does. But Sexlab has a lot more options compared with AAF.

Other mods make conditions for sex like dialogs etc. Other mods make your "WOW RPG content". You can make mods yourself. Sexlab is only animation framework.

Edited September 14, 2023 by WA1KER885

[hompie]

On 9/13/2023 at 11:14 AM, AManNamedNorvile said:

This sounds really good, and interesting. I'm no Modder, so forgive me if what im saying might be ridiculous, but you have remember everything has limitations, especially mods. and as far as I know, mods have to work with the game, so im just not sure how possible something like this can be.

Also games like Koikatsu and HS2 are built solely around Sex. Honey Select 2 for example, runs on Unity which is a pretty accessible and multi-purpose engine. however Games like Starfield, Fallout, Skyrim all run on Engines designed just for them. (Starfield uses Creation Engine 2 unlike Skyrim and FO4 which use Creation Engine). if you really want an in-depth sex simulator, then I would suggest playing the games you mentioned.


Like I stated previously, im not a modder so im not really educated on modding and how possible it would be to add a framework like the one you're mentioning, however I do know some of the things you're suggesting should be possible.

take everything I say with a grain of salt. the main purpose of this comment is just to remind ourselves to not get our hopes and expectations too high.

 

 

Well yes, you absolutely have to temper expectations and be realistic. However you also need to set the bar high enough for innovation to be possible.
I don't expect everything to be implemented ezpz, but if we keep just looking down on what's easily possible, we just keep at what works "well enough" and any grand idea after that has to come from a passionate individual with the necessary skills (which is a rarity), and experience tells me those attempts often fizzle out, because they have to design their whole idea basically from scratch.

The purpose of my post was to provide a vision to work towards

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, WA1KER885 said:

Man, what the f are you talking about? Sexlab is ONLY framework. It does nothing itself, it can only start animation with given parameters (time, place, stripping, camera, sound, position and so on). And so AAF does. But Sexlab has a lot more options compared with AAF.

Other mods make conditions for sex like dialogs etc. Other mods make your "WOW RPG content". You can make mods yourself. Sexlab is only animation framework.

 

See that's where you're don't see the larger picture. If we don't allow for options during sex, other mods will only be able to add sexual context before and after sex. This is what happened to SL Skyrim, and is why I don't really like Skyrim as a sexual escapism any more. The only mod that added some context to what happened inside a sex scene was Apropos, which was a very haphazard solution.

I don't ask for everything to be implemented the way I described, just for there to be good compatibility so that other mod authors can work with stuff happening DURING the sex scene.

In my post I proposed six things:

- Interactive menu, dialogue based or a visual menu like Osex

- Interaction buttons

- Checks, so certain options in the proposed Interactive Menu are greyed out when not unlocked or given permission for

- Performer and action identification, so the framework can signal to other mods who (which actor) is doing what exactly

- Logging, the more contextual data available for other mods, the better

- Time hooks in animation, so other mods, or animators themselves, can apply effects at a particular time in a particular animation

 

In my post I added a lot of fluff so people can see WHY I want these things in the framework. Of course most of the fluff would come from mods outside the framework, but they need these things in the framework. Catch me?

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by hompie

[WA1KER885]

6 hours ago, hompie said:

 

 

Well yes, you absolutely have to temper expectations and be realistic. However you also need to set the bar high enough for innovation to be possible.
I don't expect everything to be implemented ezpz, but if we keep just looking down on what's easily possible, we just keep at what works "well enough" and any grand idea after that has to come from a passionate individual with the necessary skills (which is a rarity), and experience tells me those attempts often fizzle out, because they have to design their whole idea basically from scratch.

The purpose of my post was to provide a vision to work towards

 

 

 

 

 

See that's where you're don't see the larger picture. If we don't allow for options during sex, other mods will only be able to add sexual context before and after sex. This is what happened to SL Skyrim, and is why I don't really like Skyrim as a sexual escapism any more. The only mod that added some context to what happened inside a sex scene was Apropos, which was a very haphazard solution.

I don't ask for everything to be implemented the way I described, just for there to be good compatibility so that other mod authors can work with stuff happening DURING the sex scene.

In my post I proposed six things:

- Interactive menu, dialogue based or a visual menu like Osex

- Interaction buttons

- Checks, so certain options in the proposed Interactive Menu are greyed out when not unlocked or given permission for

- Performer and action identification, so the framework can signal to other mods who (which actor) is doing what exactly

- Logging, the more contextual data available for other mods, the better

- Time hooks in animation, so other mods, or animators themselves, can apply effects at a particular time in a particular animation

 

In my post I added a lot of fluff so people can see WHY I want these things in the framework. Of course most of the fluff would come from mods outside the framework, but they need these things in the framework. Catch me?

 

Man, are you crazy?

You offer to make animation framework shit. You talking some crazy shit about dualogues etc. 

I repeat - sexlab is ONLY ANIMATION FRAMEWORK. It was never connected with sexual content mods another way then just starting fckn animation. And giving info of what is happening now. Doing shit framework leads to LESS FCKN SEX MODS like f4, including your favorite "dialogue mods". Good framework with LOT of options in API will make people create various mods. 

Edited September 14, 2023 by WA1KER885

[SleepyNinja]

20 hours ago, RohZima said:

I have been watching this thread since it was posted but didn't know really what to say, so I'll just make some general points.

 

It's a framework for content mods to hook into, so it should be as light as possible. It seems to me that games, software and mods are defeated by bloat & feature mess more than anything - too much choice splitting communities. And the criticism of Sexlab was almost totally to do with what it did that people wanted to remove, rather than what it didn't do that people wanted to add.

 

So:

 

Ability to quickly add/remove animations with small learning curve (for animators - no phd required).

 

Tracking stats for mods to be able to hook into but ability to hide that (sex diary - pain for ocd peole).

 

I can already see people wanting to force their play style and use on everyone (smh). LOTS of people never wanted to use Arounsed or DD, and dialogue lines poorly written or even well written will quickly become tedious so none of that PERSONAL stuff should be forced on everyone.

 

It should just be a framework that allows you to toggle features on or off as a rule, and I would hesitate to add anything subjective unless it can definitely be toggled off or hidden.

 

Hard filters on types of content that will play (same sex for instance).

 

Stability, performance, smooth transitions, etc. But obviously you are a developer, I'm just an animator so I have no idea what makes it run smooth or not.

 

Good luck to you!

 

I still love Sexlab to this day and I also love AAF. As an animator, if I do make anims for Starfield, I would definitely support both types of framework if they exist.

I said a whole lotta nothing in this thread but this right here is the undeniable truth, this right here is exactly how a framework should be. All these feature creeps, people keep adding should just be mods. Keep this baby light yo. I'm the end-user in all this, so the only foot I have in this thread is my experience from other mods, if it means for an easier install, I 1000% agree. All I really want is better default alignment and ezpz out the box install, surprise me with what this framework can do. Nevermind that furniture stuff I said earlier, that's a mod frfr. And even if it's not an ezpz install, I'll figure it out, just like OSA, AFF and SexLab before this.

 

I mean if we keep adding features to a framework, doesn't that defeat the purpose of a framework????? It's like having the frames for a house, and you can build in any design you want. But if you get a pre-built house with the designs already shaped, you have to build within that design.

[Anunya]

Yeah that makes sense.

 

I think the point of listing those PERSONAL things is hoping that the framework can be written in such a way that it's not too difficult to add them for later mod-authors. In my experience, the challenge with foundational tech is that you can make decisions that close off further venues of development (or require cumbersome hackery to implement) very easily.

 

I'd suggest that the all the "I'd like my Space Sex Framework to have all these features" suggestions be taken as avenues for possible future development on top of the framework, and that some thought is given to keep those possibilities open rather than closing them off via early decisions.

 

But yeah, the framework shouldn't have a massive list of gameplay features... but ideally it should make it easier rather than harder to implement those kind of features by future mod authors.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Anunya