Sex Mod Framework - Development Discussion

[Allnarta]

Quote

I don't want to be too enthusiastic, but a simple 'press the 'fuck-key' and have some fun' mod to make playing more spicy might be possible in a few days.

 

Not really, NAF is very limited in sense of API-called animations yet because of SFSE limitations. Considering everyone keep abandoning a game we can never get essential functions for SFSE to make it possible.

For now maximum we can do is make an animations (very limited ones too, there is no way to make advanced rig yet as imported native bones positions will not allow you to set it up properly) and call them with console. Nothing more.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Allnarta

[Pfiffy]

58 minutes ago, Allnarta said:

 

Not really, NAF is very limited in sense of API-called animations yet because of SFSE limitations. Considering everyone keep abandoning a game we can never get essential functions for SFSE to make it possible.

For now maximum we can do is make an animations (very limited ones too, there is no way to make advanced rig yet as imported native bones positions will not allow you to set it up properly) and call them with console. Nothing more.

Rome wasn't build in a day... I'm just hoping that Modding Starfield will get to the point where FO4 is... 

[Allnarta]

Not in this case, sadly. People aren't really interested in realistic space aesthtetics (bouncing dongs are much more fun than booring deep universe exploration ?) , so most of "major" modmakers who are capable on breaking stuff, just abandoned it. We'll see what CK provides, but most likely they will stick to other games that provide much more down to earth i nteresting things.
 

[Miauzi]

Vor 29 Minuten sagte Allnarta:

In diesem Fall leider nicht. Die Leute sind nicht wirklich an realistischer Weltraumästhetik interessiert (hüpfende Dongs machen viel mehr Spaß, als langweilige Erkundungen des tiefen Universums ? ) , also haben die meisten „großen“ Mod-Hersteller, die in der Lage sind, Dinge kaputt zu machen, es einfach aufgegeben. Wir werden sehen, was CK bietet, aber höchstwahrscheinlich werden sie bei anderen Spielen bleiben, die viel bodenständigere , interessantere Dinge bieten.
 

 

REALISTIC space aesthetics??? What are you actually writing about?

So "StarField" may be many things - but this game has absolutely ZERO to do with REALISM!!

To describe 100 systems alone as a "gigantic gaming experience" (original sound of the advertising campaign) ... what a bold presumption - our home galaxy alone already has 400,000,000,000 star systems.

Exploration?? What kind of exploration... of animal beings in the 2-D ocean??

The game is boring and completely broken... and obviously many mod authors simply have no motivation to work in this environment... other games seem to offer much more satisfaction for them.

 

[Allnarta]

What's all this negativity about? There's not much point to write it here, in inner Starfield forum (i.e. place where people who aren't hate game gather to discuss thing) anyway.  

[Miauzi]

Vor 12 Minuten sagte Allnarta:

Worum geht es bei all dieser Negativität? Es macht sowieso keinen Sinn, es hier zu schreiben, im inneren Starfield-Forum (also an einem Ort, an dem Leute, die kein Hassspiel sind, zusammenkommen, um etwas zu diskutieren).  

 

I spent the first 28 years of my long life in "socialism" and with the "reunification" in Germany I would never have believed that such sayings from my "FDJ seminar" or the "party apprenticeship year" or the "Polit -Lessons" at the NVA can be read.

But obviously such approaches are completely free of political ideology... and ultimately just a building block of an opinion bubble... aka "just don't hear, see or read anything that would make me wake up from my illusion"

But the saying "... then go over if you don't like it here" no longer works for me

 

 

 

 

[Allnarta]

It wasn't me who became rude and literally exploded over an opinion on a game they didn't like. ?

 

Anyway, it has nothing to do with current thread topic.

[DocClox]

3 hours ago, Allnarta said:

Not really, NAF is very limited in sense of API-called animations yet because of SFSE limitations

 

Ah, we can probably do something of the order of

 

• Position actor A
• Position actor B
• start animation for A
• start animation for B

Won't be hugely sophisticated, but should do the basics. The big problem would be telling when the animation was over, but I'm guessing there's an animation event we can listen for.  Quite possibly we can add one in since the .af/.afx format seems to be fairly well understood.

 

Anything much more complex will need to wait on proper mod support, but that much should be achievable.

[Pfiffy]

5 hours ago, DocClox said:

 

Ah, we can probably do something of the order of

 

• Position actor A
• Position actor B
• start animation for A
• start animation for B

Won't be hugely sophisticated, but should do the basics. The big problem would be telling when the animation was over, but I'm guessing there's an animation event we can listen for.  Quite possibly we can add one in since the .af/.afx format seems to be fairly well understood.

 

Anything much more complex will need to wait on proper mod support, but that much should be achievable.

Well, there is a mod to make people dance.... Everybody Dance Now - Player and Companions Can Dance at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

 

If they can dance, they can do other things, too.... If we have an animation for it... Stripping and redressing will be the bigger problem, I guess... and the gender settings... A simple kneeling blowjob animation is gender neutral, so it would be a good start... 

 

edit: Even if the options are limited, there are some options. And for me it seems like they are growing day by day... We should not talk about the things that we can't do now, but do the things that we can do. (ok, my abilities are limited so there is nothing I can do for now) Maybe this will be the inspiration for others and they will join in. 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Pfiffy

[Allnarta]

I wait for Snapdragon to set up things to make proper IK rig possible, then I can do few animations for sure.

[Pfiffy]

And now for some something completely different: Since we have the first body mods for both genders, are there any news about jiggleling? I haven't seen anything about a Skeleton so far. I only read 'waiting for this' or  'waiting for that' If all people are waiting nothing will happen. At least ppl like snapdragon did something. 

 

If Ashal or anybody else will do a Sexlab for Starfield he/she/it will need some basic anims to start with. So everything that is done by that time will speed up things. 

[DocClox]

6 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

Since we have the first body mods for both genders, are there any news about jiggleling?

 

Apparently the next Starfield Geometry Bridge release will handle physics. So jiggles should be doable after that. I think the system in Starfield uses morphs rather than bones, so we may not need so many special skeletons this time around.

[Allnarta]

Srsrly?

I tried to make proper IK rig for a half a day today, with advices from Snapdragon himself. It just doesn't work because of amount of reasons.

 

He works on making work on Temperance-positioned bones rig possible right now. he updates tool to be possible - I could make some stuff.

 

But if I'm being blamed for waiting for updated framework to do a thing - then I don't even know.

About skeleton and new bones - I made it in blender. Maxie tried to export it, but we didn't manage to make weighted to new bones body mesh work. Yet.

 

And yesm you need new bones, as before. Physics is still new bones. Bouncing is still new bones. Also possible penetration physics is still bones.

[Pfiffy]

10 minutes ago, Allnarta said:

Srsrly?

I tried to make proper IK rig for a half a day today, with advices from Snapdragon himself. It just doesn't work because of amount of reasons.

 

He works on making work on Temperance-positioned bones rig possible right now. he updates tool to be possible - I could make some stuff.

 

But if I'm being blamed for waiting for updated framework to do a thing - then I don't even know.

About skeleton and new bones - I made it in blender. Maxie tried to export it, but we didn't manage to make weighted to new bones body mesh work. Yet.

 

And yesm you need new bones, as before. Physics is still new bones. Bouncing is still new bones. Also possible penetration physics is still bones.

I don't blame you. You are trying to do something with the things that we have. You might not be successful now, but at least you try. This much more than just saying' We don't have a CK, so we can't do anything.....'  

[robert_d_negro]

2 minutes ago, Pfiffy said:

I don't blame you. You are trying to do something with the things that we have. You might not be successful now, but at least you try. This much more than just saying' We don't have a CK, so we can't do anything.....'  

any news on ck ? do we have a release date ?

[Allnarta]

Ah, I though it was a remark for me waiting Snapdragon to update NAF capability to work with properly rotated bones. Sorry.

I'm sure we will get animations made with normal rigs to work ingame (you already can import animations and they will work; but without rig quality limit is very low).

[ebbluminous]

15 minutes ago, robert_d_negro said:

any news on ck ? do we have a release date ?

Next year

[Pfiffy]

9 hours ago, Allnarta said:

Ah, I though it was a remark for me waiting Snapdragon to update NAF capability to work with properly rotated bones. Sorry.

I'm sure we will get animations made with normal rigs to work ingame (you already can import animations and they will work; but without rig quality limit is very low).

 

 

From the more practical point of view: 

 

What do we need for a simple Sex scene?

 

1. Select the actors (We might take the actual follower for a start and use the Dancing mod as base Everybody Dance Now - Player and Companions Can Dance at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)) 

 

2. Strip them (There is already a mod for that Stripping Armor - NPCs drop all loot after death and Replicate the Perfect Touch skill from Skyrim - at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)) Instead of stripping them they could equip the nacked body. There is a erected version of Robert S on Nexus  Robert S Male Body Replacer at Starfield Nexus - Mods and Community (nexusmods.com)

 

3. Animate them (for a start low quality will do, we just need a proove of concept)

 

4. Re-dress them again (This is where we get in trouble???)

 

 

[Allnarta]

I can provide animations (I hope), everything else is out of my scope.

[DocClox]

1 hour ago, Pfiffy said:

4. Re-dress them again (This is where we get in trouble???)

 

Simplest thing is to store a duration along with each animation. So if you have a BJ anim that runs for 20 seconds, you can set a timer for 21 seconds and then do the cleanup. Not perfect, but it'd do for current purposes.

 

We also want to set and unset Restrained status so participants don't wander off or get pushed out of alignment, and some sort of check to stop kiddies being pulled into the scene.

 

1 hour ago, Allnarta said:

I can provide animations (I hope), everything else is out of my scope.

 

Give me a pair of animations I can use to test, I'll have a crack at the code. I'll see how much of Four-Play I can repurpose.

[Pfiffy]

1 hour ago, Allnarta said:

I can provide animations (I hope), everything else is out of my scope.

For a start we need a kneeling Blowjob... Go for it... 
 

[DocClox]

Hmm... OK.

 

I had a quick look at the Everybody Dance mod.

 

• It uses an array of invisible furniture markers to make people dance. The markers are vanilla furniture items from the Astral Lounge and Euphorika.
• Furniture seems to use the same keyword approach as Fallout 4. That means that we'll probably need a CK command line call to associate the animation with the keyword. We could try Fo4's CK for this purpose, but I doubt it would work.
• On the bright side, furniture is good since it immobilizes the user.
• Everybody Dance uses the "GetUp" event to end the dancing. So animation continues until the player moves. That could work for some applications...
• On the other hand, we could probably clone an existing marker, strip out any animation keywords, and add an activator script which then kicks off the animation
• Kicking off NAF animations might be problematic. It can be done from console commands, or from a SFSE plugin, but not from Papyrus. So I'd need to write an SFSE plugin, and even then, I'm still not sure how to call it from a papyrus script. This is a bit of a show-stopper unless I can find a way around it.

 

As I say, just a very quick look. I'll spend a bit more time on it later.

 

[edit]

 

What could work, maybe, would be a hotkey. That could run a bat file, and from there call NAF and quest scripts both.

 

What might be harder this way would getting a refid for the other partner in the scene. Not a problem if you do it through dialogue or a weapon-like device , but this way we'd need to find the target. There was a PickNextActor (PNA) command for Fo4 that, if it still works, might do the job.

Edited December 11, 2023 by DocClox

[Allnarta]

I also kind of tired on hitting a brick wall, especially while NAF author said that he's not going to work on tools that will convert wrong bones to right bones rotation; I tried a lot of things and never figured out how to properly animate and transfer it to a skeleton that game has to properly read.

GLB format provides too much issues, as it cares about hierarchy, object transform and other things that legit prevent you from setting up proper rig.

I likely have to give up on it for a while, until someone figures out actual ingame format or makes tools to convert normally made animations to proper rotational format for BGS, as in current state it looks like dead point, as it's just impossible to put newly made animation into a game.

[brown66]

On 12/10/2023 at 12:26 PM, Allnarta said:

(...) bouncing dongs are much more fun than booring deep universe exploration ?) (...)
 

 

 

I think you're not really seeing what's going to happen in the future, where deep space exploration, something I'm loving about this game right now, is going to be something very exciting and popular!

 

Imagine that you descend on some forgotten planet, take out the scanner and start scanning the planet's horizon... You discover that there are, in the distance, caves, structures, natural places and... brothels!

 

Tell me, if under those conditions, wouldn't you be a fan of deep space exploration? Tell me you won't run 1300m, if necessary, to see what bouncing bongs are like in that brothel? Tell me that you won't even run twice that distance if instead of a brothel, you're on a quest where you earn a shitload of money to go kill the leader of female bandits, in a forgotten space station on a remote planet, some bad asses from the worse, with some spectacular bouncing bongs, all ready to fire their ultra-powerful weapons, which you will collect, plus their space suits, leaving all these Amazons completely naked, (there is already a mod that does this!), after killing them all?

 

By the way, I'm one of the many players who doesn't know enough about how to make mods with sex in the middle, but who eagerly awaits its appearance. And with bouncing dongs, since these are what still make me use Skyrim LE, instead of Skyrim SE.

 

So, thank you very much to those who are trying to figure out how to make the bunch of perverts who still play Skytim and Fallout, happy again with sex mods in Sexfield,... I mean Starfield!

 

And excuse my English. It's not my native language.

[Pfiffy]

7 hours ago, DocClox said:

Hmm... OK.

 

I had a quick look at the Everybody Dance mod.

 

• It uses an array of invisible furniture markers to make people dance. The markers are vanilla furniture items from the Astral Lounge and Euphorika.
• Furniture seems to use the same keyword approach as Fallout 4. That means that we'll probably need a CK command line call to associate the animation with the keyword. We could try Fo4's CK for this purpose, but I doubt it would work.
• On the bright side, furniture is good since it immobilizes the user.
• Everybody Dance uses the "GetUp" event to end the dancing. So animation continues until the player moves. That could work for some applications...
• On the other hand, we could probably clone an existing marker, strip out any animation keywords, and add an activator script which then kicks off the animation
• Kicking off NAF animations might be problematic. It can be done from console commands, or from a SFSE plugin, but not from Papyrus. So I'd need to write an SFSE plugin, and even then, I'm still not sure how to call it from a papyrus script. This is a bit of a show-stopper unless I can find a way around it.

 

As I say, just a very quick look. I'll spend a bit more time on it later.

 

[edit]

 

What could work, maybe, would be a hotkey. That could run a bat file, and from there call NAF and quest scripts both.

 

What might be harder this way would getting a refid for the other partner in the scene. Not a problem if you do it through dialogue or a weapon-like device , but this way we'd need to find the target. There was a PickNextActor (PNA) command for Fo4 that, if it still works, might do the job.

From what I read the Mod has the device.... And it works on the follower... I will test it with my multi follower mod to see if it will work on all followers or just the active one. For a Start it ould be enough to bang Sarah, Andreja, Sam or Berett...(No probs with Kids and so on....)

My Idea was to modify the mod to just use a different animation. A further step would be to use different devices for the different gender combinations (MM/FM/FF) and to choose who is kneeling. And then gain some affinity points....

5 hours ago, Allnarta said:

I also kind of tired on hitting a brick wall, especially while NAF author said that he's not going to work on tools that will convert wrong bones to right bones rotation; I tried a lot of things and never figured out how to properly animate and transfer it to a skeleton that game has to properly read.

GLB format provides too much issues, as it cares about hierarchy, object transform and other things that legit prevent you from setting up proper rig.

I likely have to give up on it for a while, until someone figures out actual ingame format or makes tools to convert normally made animations to proper rotational format for BGS, as in current state it looks like dead point, as it's just impossible to put newly made animation into a game.

This sounds like you didn't have a good day... And I just had the Idea to add Kissing as additional Anim... 

 

Since there is no post of a new anim so far, I guess that other ppl have the same problems.