Independence or Origin? (Spoilers)

[patzy]

I'm not sure about what faction the reborn Viola should join, weather she joins the Imperial Legion due to her Imperial origin or the Stormcloak Rebels due to make the nord independant from an Empire that seems to have lost common sense at all.

So I'd like to collect pros and cons:

 

Imperial Legion:

 

Pros:

- most princedoms of Skyrim seem to like the policy of the Empire

- they are not racist at all

- Viola is born in Cyrodill and an Imperial herself, she's the reincarnation of Viola, the Champion of Cyrodill who was once fighting for the Empire

- Solitude seems to be a much more friendly place than Windhelm

 

Cons:

- the White-Gold Concordat that prohibits the worship of Tiber Septim as a god (I think freedom of religion is an important right)

- they work with the Thalmor, those guys are dicks

- they tried to kill me! (intro)

- Since the Oblivion crysis the Empire was pretty much decaying and is nothing compared to a hundred years ago when Viola and Martin Seprim defeated the evil forces that endangered a united Tamriel

 

Stormcloak Rebels:

 

Pros:

- they fight for independance and freedom of religion

- they helped Viola to get out of Helgen and her own execution

- Skyrim is the Nords homeland and they have the right to rule over it

- they hate the Thalmor just as I do

 

Cons:

- they are racist and especially hate elves

- Windhelm is a landfill compared to Solitude

- they don't like the College of Winterhold that Viola is the Archmage of

- their support among the jarls of Skyrim towards their intention seems minor

 

So, what would you add, what do u think, what did you choose and why?

[Med111]

Skyrim was always part of The Empire, so breaking out doesn't make sense. Look a bit further - what will happen, after Stormcloaks win? Aldmeri Dominion will invade Skyrim. They still fear strength of united Empire, but Skyrim won't be part of it anymore and won't be protected by White Gold Concordat. That'd be easy conquer for Thalmor, just because Ulfric is power hungry and charismatic idiot.

[leddis3]

*further SPOILERS*

 

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Also, it turns out Ulfric is a Thalmor plant, either brainwashed or demoralised to the point he's unwittingly following their agenda.

Granted there's no way for a character to know this ahead of time (and unfortunately no way to betray the Stormcloaks when you find out) but it does pretty much cement the fact that the Stormcloaks are a bad end for Skyrim.

[Tobbe27]

What do you mean, find out? Where do you do that, Leddis3? I finished as Stormcloaks and never saw anything like that. Is it part of the Imperial questline?

[gregathit]

 

 

In the imperial questline the general isn't nearly the prick that you might think he is from the opening part of the game (or at least I didn't).

Also you see that Ulfric is little more than a Tool.

Many references are made to the empire not trusting the Thalmor.

 

 

[galgat]

be careful if you go imperial, there is a bug in markath that can cause a lot of trouble.. I hate to speak to much about it, as that would give away the plot.

 

But the guards can wind up stuck sort of and keep trying to send you to prison. every time you try to go to that city. There is more to it than that but i hate to tell the whole thing.

 

I hear it is a real curse for console's. They do not have our get you out of trouble Console commands..LOL

[polluxval]

i would join whoever pays me more.

[garaze]

I've played both Imperial and Stormcloaks through - to be honest, I don't like any of them.

 

So I ended up storming both Solitude and Windhelm and killing Ulfric and the General Tullius dude.

[Evilokami]

I went for (well going for cause I made a new character) imperal. Just because I feel they have what is best in mind for all of skyrim.

 

I don't really want to give my views on religion. I don't want to say no your not allowed to worship who you want. But also think it should be something private.

 

 

[Kashked]

Well, being an imperial you don't really belong in Skyrim, so get the hell out of our beloved Fatherland!

 

Myself, I have a weakness for joining the bearded guys wielding big axes that are voiced by people who sound just like me trying to speak english...

But from a RP point of view, it dosn't really make any sense for any non-nord to join the Stormcloaks, unless they have a serious grudge with the empire or something. The Stormcloaks are, as you mentioned, supremacists, and I atleast would not join them with a non-nordic character.

[Duval99]

Went Stormcloaks first time through - was very disappointed, no mansion, no Jarldom, no wenches as reward I pretty much leeroy'd Solitude and got nothing more than a mention in a speech!

 

This playthrough I'm an assassin and silently slaughtering imperial and stormcloak as I find them.

[patzy]

So I come to the conclusion that joining the Imperial Legion is the better idea.

[pandabear]

The stormcloaks are short sighted idiots. I won't even bother backing that up with arguments. The imperials aren't working with the Thalmor "willingly", they'd much rather be rid of them, you'll pick up a few comments backing this up throughout the game. They're trying to keep Tamriel unified, which in the end benefits everyone. Sure, it may come at a cost, more so for some than others, but I firmly believe the long term benefits will outweigh any sacrifices.

 

And don't forget, the founder of the third empire was a nord. Tiber Septim, also a Dragonborn.

 

Just join the Imperial Legion and kill any Thalmor you cross paths with.

[marrow12]

anyone else think that the whole civil war thing is the most lazily done part of the game? both sides have the same dialogue with the same missions with only slight variations and possibly a few different locations and dialogue for the conclusion, plus for some reason I can't seem to get any finisher moves at all during the fort battles. The first time around it was fun, but when I decided to join the other side, I was pretty disappointed to see that it was basically the same thing.

[Skaldy]

First of all Skyrim is the first region of empire so if it goes whole empire collapses in to choas which means thalmor and elven race can rise again. Banning Talos worshipping was to make sure empire has serious conflict with in self. Plus disbanding blades also known as order of talos is side effect of that. Through this i support the empire i dont wanna see another elven reign over at Tamriel. If nord militia and legion combines their forces thalmor will suffer much more in future battle. Thalmor succeced with nord racism so i wont let them profit from this. That's why my dragon born is imperial

[leddis3]

What do you mean' date=' find out? Where do you do that, Leddis3? I finished as Stormcloaks and never saw anything like that. Is it part of the Imperial questline?

[/quote']

 

It's information found in the Ulfric dossier in the Thalmor embassy when you go there for the main quest.

 

anyone else think that the whole civil war thing is the most lazily done part of the game? both sides have the same dialogue with the same missions with only slight variations and possibly a few different locations and dialogue for the conclusion' date=' plus for some reason I can't seem to get any finisher moves at all during the fort battles. The first time around it was fun, but when I decided to join the other side, I was pretty disappointed to see that it was basically the same thing.

[/quote']

 

To be honest I think Bethesda saw what Obsidian did with New Vegas and thought "let's do it like that!". Which isn't a bad thing, but the current Bethesda team is still relatively new at this factional thing.

The last Bethesda game that had conflicting factions was Daggerfall, and Morrowind's writers couldn't solve that without a time warp so complicated it'd make the Doctor dizzy.

[sotnas]

I dont know why but im always with the imperials and want to crush any rebelion (maybe the reason is where i live ).

 

I see the stormcloacks like a blind assholes that cant see the big picture.

 

 

 

Great game by the way .

 

 

[Ryanhabs]

Anytime I hear "rebellion" I think of Starwars, and I was always so upset that the goddie-goddie Luke and his sister banded together with various "riff-raff" from around the federation to overthrow the powers that be. I always wanted Darth Vader to just suck it up and realize Luke was a failure as a son and kill his ass, but it would never happen. That said, I side with the Imperials due to the fact that not counting the deadric invasions and elves trying to become gods by using a heart and its blood, they have done a decent job keeping peace and harmony (for the most part).

[LifeandEd]

anyone else think that the whole civil war thing is the most lazily done part of the game? both sides have the same dialogue with the same missions with only slight variations and possibly a few different locations and dialogue for the conclusion' date=' plus for some reason I can't seem to get any finisher moves at all during the fort battles. The first time around it was fun, but when I decided to join the other side, I was pretty disappointed to see that it was basically the same thing.

[/quote']

 

One thing I believe should be mentioned with regards to the civil war line being so simplistic is that your decisions in the peace conference can alter the holds you have to capture from the other side. Surely a lot of work went into all the possible combinations for each side, even though the battles themselves are all but identical. For example, my imperial sacrificed Markarth at the negotiating table for Riften. When it came time to capture Markarth, Tullius told me "You'd better take Markarth, or die trying." If little things like this actually exist depending on your side and actions in the peace conference, the cookie-cutter fortress battles are easily forgivable.

 

On my choice of side, I was on the fence for a while. I leaned towards the empire from the start. To begin with, I couldn't blame the entire empire for one woman's decision to put me on the chopping block, and the guy who tried to dissuade her even helped me escape. Trips to Elisif's court, where I spoke to people who had witnessed the fair duel between Torygg and Ulfric, and Markarth, where I learned about how he had shouted down the Forsworn and kicked them out of the city, gave me second thoughts. Then I went to Windhelm and saw how he had treated the dunmer, cordoning them off into their very own ghetto. After that, I read about the atrocities his army committed after the victory at Markarth. Between those two things, I pretty much decided that there was, as other people in this thread have mentioned, no way a non-nord could reasonably support the stormcloaks.

 

Given the chance, I think Ulfric would kill everything in Skyrim walking on two legs that isn't a nord, giving the thalmor a perfect opening to finish the job. There wouldn't be a single human left alive in Skyrim by the time they finished. That's why I think the thalmor consider Ulfric a sleeper agent.

[ogre3000]

If you do the main quest after you did the imperial quest line at the final act you will find Ulfric and his general in Sovngarde outside of Hall Of Valor...gues he wasnt a true hero of the nords:P

[Kashked]

If you do the main quest after you did the imperial quest line at the final act you will find Ulfric and his general in Sovngarde outside of Hall Of Valor...gues he wasnt a true hero of the nords:P

 

Well, I haven't experienced this myself, but based on what you say it actually proves he IS a true hero, Alduin has only kept him from joining the other heroes (until you fix that, he wont be able to reach Sovngarde.

 

Besides, Shor dosn't play at politics, if you finish the civil war in favour of the Stormcloaks you meet an female imperial soldier in the mist outside Sovngarde, as she is named Legate something or other I am assuming she is important to the imperial storyline (which I haven't played), so heroes from both sides reach the Hall of Valor (assuming they are nords of course...).