ZaZ Animation Pack (ZAP)

[t.ara]

1 hour ago, Musje said:

 

I think losing some stuff like offset swimming is not that much of a big deal, if that frees up some animation slots in FNIS.  The new functions should not affect the whipping functions or the rest of the framework, though.

 

The riding function could be made optional but I think it would be nice to keep it, it seems to be a popular function (even today someone asked to plase make a skeleton for male mounts, sadly I Ihave no idea how to do that).  It also should not cause issues, especially if you don't install the necessary skeleton for it.  But what is the problem with skeleton deformation?  I've been using this on LE and SE and neither version had issues with the skeleton.

 

Hello MUSJE:-)

sadly I have the skeleton deformation lot of month-after your edits. I ´m sure it is the npc-riding-or the swimming. Something which is drastically taking influence on the animation engine via FNIS. Behavior-problems. The game is searching to restart the animation corectly with the skeleton....which is flying around in some bigger radius and scary deformed. That ´s an error inside of the animation-system.

Don´t please worry about that.

I try to find that error soon. I´ll switch off the stuff which I think is guilty.

I work with the latest skeleton for LE which uses the 4 bone-breast-tree.

The problem is that also NPCs sometimes and btw. not seldom do the same as the player´s character...FLY away in deformation with a nonsence of rowing legs , arms and deformed body....and this structure of a scary glitched mesh is then rotating thru walls by FNIS-issue, collision off and "go"...LOL. That takes about 1 minute or longer and can become interrupted again by trying to enter a furniture. After that the character is back and the animation is also fine, then, same for NPC as I mentioned. This error is with the ZAP 9 broadcasted to all of us, which play ZAP 9.

 

I think in some days I´ll be able to tell you about the reason for that problem. FNIS is adding this error into the engine, no doubts.

[t.ara]

Male mount´s skeleton for riding?....has somebody a skeleton for me?...idk which skeleton you play for males.

Give me a half hour for that task. I´ll do that inclusive a magic bone for soft-riding:-)))

Edited December 25, 2022 by t.ara

[Musje]

6 minutes ago, t.ara said:

Male mount´s skeleton for riding?....has somebody a skeleton for me?...idk which skeleton you play for males.

Give me a half hour for that task. I´ll do that inclusive a magic bone for soft-riding:-)))

 

I'm not sure, I use SOS but I'm not sure if that installs a new male skeleton

[t.ara]

8 hours ago, Musje said:

 

I'm not sure, I use SOS but I'm not sure if that installs a new male skeleton

maybe sos is installing only the male´s thing...i guess also that curious skeleton-part?

and not the whole skeleton...has to be a nif-file-but if i now take mine, it s maybe an old skeleton-i don t care about males-? IN THIS GAME?

Edited December 25, 2022 by t.ara

[Musje]

Purely for testing!

 

These are riding skeletons for male and female.  Put them in data\meshes\actors\character\character assets and character assets female respectively.  Save the existing skeleton files!

These are for SSE, I don't know if these also work for LE

Based on the latest XPMSSE version.

 

SOS compatible as far as I can tell

skeleton_female.nif skeleton.nif

[t.ara]

17 hours ago, Musje said:

Purely for testing!

 

These are riding skeletons for male and female.  Put them in data\meshes\actors\character\character assets and character assets female respectively.  Save the existing skeleton files!

These are for SSE, I don't know if these also work for LE

Based on the latest XPMSSE version.

 

SOS compatible as far as I can tell

skeleton_female.nif 85.07 kB · 0 downloads skeleton.nif 73.75 kB · 0 downloads

Means that this has been done for males?!...i made some of those for females, with different heights, and different location/seats for the sitting.

With ZAP 9 this is not working. And forgive me that I will no longer look after the problem for that.

 

I nowadays think that FNIS´AA animation "service" is no serious attribute of fnis brought in the end of the updated work on fnis at least, compared with the base and younger functions of fnis. Based on a tremendious addition of scripting, AA is not a serious animation-integration for the game from my point of view. Also the way, how AA is becoming set up, with it´s waste of slots, if not used filled completely, is pretty much a disaster for users. I´m sorry, to spread my opinion about that, but if once in future one likes to add a serious new motion-based animation-content, there´s only the way to use nemesis and add editions into the behavior file for a serious and game-compatible result. Also solid offsets (arm-hand-offsets) can be made easily by the integration of nemesis, unbreakable and working with assets and with sound if wanted, comparable to the vanilla gameplay.

The AA stuff IS of course the problem which is causing the nonsence, which I described higher. It´s sadly a waste of resources but of course if working well, better than nothing.

The skeletons work for all the games.

 

[t.ara]

On 12/24/2022 at 11:15 PM, Musje said:

 

I think losing some stuff like offset swimming is not that much of a big deal, if that frees up some animation slots in FNIS.  The new functions should not affect the whipping functions or the rest of the framework, though.

 

The riding function could be made optional but I think it would be nice to keep it, it seems to be a popular function (even today someone asked to plase make a skeleton for male mounts, sadly I Ihave no idea how to do that).  It also should not cause issues, especially if you don't install the necessary skeleton for it.  But what is the problem with skeleton deformation?  I've been using this on LE and SE and neither version had issues with the skeleton.

 

All older versions will be coexisting as usually and can become used...I change the defects/problems inside of a next update and this way we will not harm the additions.

[in'n'out]

On 12/25/2022 at 5:07 PM, Musje said:

Purely for testing!

 

These are riding skeletons for male and female.  Put them in data\meshes\actors\character\character assets and character assets female respectively.  Save the existing skeleton files!

These are for SSE, I don't know if these also work for LE

Based on the latest XPMSSE version.

 

SOS compatible as far as I can tell

skeleton_female.nif 85.07 kB · 3 downloads skeleton.nif 73.75 kB · 2 downloads

Question marks for NPCs in my LE game with these SE skeleton meshes. Any chance of SE to LE conversion?

[Musje]

11 minutes ago, in'n'out said:

Question marks for NPCs in my LE game with these SE skeleton meshes. Any chance of SE to LE conversion?

 

Not sure but apparently the last version of NIFOptimizer can backport nifs to LE

[in'n'out]

5 hours ago, Musje said:

 

Not sure but apparently the last version of NIFOptimizer can backport nifs to LE

Yes, I've already done the backport with NifOptimizer. The skeletons look workable. All the animation works. But still I can't ride an NPC (male again, I should try it on female). Does it work on your side?

[in'n'out]

11 hours ago, Musje said:

 

Not sure but apparently the last version of NIFOptimizer can backport nifs to LE

Okay, it works with both male and female NPC to ride! (my PC was female this time, haven't checked on male PC yet) So, it isn't a skeleton issue.

But it works like 4 times out of 100 tries. And it looks like I can only ride a particular NPC once. As soon as I dismount, I am not able to hop on that same NPC's back one more time. The functionality of how you mount the "horse" seems to be very cranky. Although the very riding feels really nice and smooth. No problems at all. Very stable, until you dismount and try to repeat the trick.

 

Here are the workable skeletons for LE:

skeleton.nif

skeleton_female.nif

I am not done testing yet, but I already have some suggestions. I'll post them later. Anyways, well done, Musje!!! The whole thing is HOT as FUCK

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by in'n'out

[Musje]

11 minutes ago, in'n'out said:

The functionality of how you mount the "horse" seems to be very cranky.

 

 

Yes no kidding.  There might be script timing issues, I can look into them laters.

If you think this is cracky, don't look at the part of the script that lets one NPC ride another (that doesn't really work yet). The Skyrim engine needs a little convincing to make all of this happen.

[t.ara]

This riding on NPC s need a new behavior-add-on, then you can do that like common horse riding without problems....

[in'n'out]

16 hours ago, Musje said:

 

Yes no kidding.  There might be script timing issues, I can look into them laters.

If you think this is cracky, don't look at the part of the script that lets one NPC ride another (that doesn't really work yet). The Skyrim engine needs a little convincing to make all of this happen.

Script timing issues, huh? Looks pretty much like that.

At least it works. Skeletons work.

 

A side note:

I was having different skeletons for different races and custom race NPCs. Some of them were ridable, some not.

It turned out that the skeleton.nif must have one of two names: skeleton.nif for males, skeleton_female.nif for females.

 

It can be placed in a folder different than Character Assets (Character Assets Female) - Yes (?)
It can be named differently than skeleton (skeleton_female) - No 

 

Some of the skeleton nifs in my game were named as skeleton1.nif skeleton2.nif etc. Those were not working with Ride NPC.

What I did to solve the issue was I placed skeleton nif files in different folders and renamed them all to skeleton.nif for males, skeleton_female.nif for females.

[t.ara]

Whishing all of you a

 

 

Happy New Year !!!

 

?

?

 

 

 

[t.ara]

4 hours ago, in'n'out said:

Script timing issues, huh? Looks pretty much like that.

At least it works. Skeletons work.

 

A side note:

I was having different skeletons for different races and custom race NPCs. Some of them were ridable, some not.

It turned out that the skeleton.nif must have one of two names: skeleton.nif for males, skeleton_female.nif for females.

 

It can be placed in a folder different than Character Assets (Character Assets Female) - Yes (?)
It can be named differently than skeleton (skeleton_female) - No 

 

Some of the skeleton nifs in my game were named as skeleton1.nif skeleton2.nif etc. Those were not working with Ride NPC.

What I did to solve the issue was I placed skeleton nif files in different folders and renamed them all to skeleton.nif for males, skeleton_female.nif for females.

You can check out that easily if you simply look into the x32-mod by groovtama. Those skeletons´s target folder and names are a working version. If now you add to them the saddle bone and the magic-bone of the original horse-saddle, give them the correct place by a helper-node, combined with a correct angle, then this is done. I always have some few skeletons there in the folder, in the past for some tests for this riding. I also created horses with two and more saddles-but also this is only possible if the behavior-graph of skyrim´s animation system is supporting this feature. The second seat behind the player can also get a different rhythm of the riding-animation and the backward sitting NPC can keep the hands holding onto the hips/waist of the rider. Bethesad did not see a need to do so because the NPC/followers are appearing mostly behind the player, as soon a cell becomes loaded new. The game is simply not made for "long" riding trips with followers or by using the carts, which do not work correctly-there´s too much nonsence with the havok-engine inside of that game. The carts do not have the correct weights. Around laying assets which are moveable can kill the player if touched twice or a third time. Collisions with such objects are in skyrim more dangerous than to fight against enemy.

 

p.s. adding those bones inside of NIFSCOPE afterwards needs a correct leave and overhaul of the new additions of the file. If that is not done ccorrectly the additions will not be "seen" by the game. NIFSCOPE can be little scary for such a job.

Edited December 31, 2022 by t.ara

[t.ara]

Some few impressions for you about my new body:

"Feetwork" on my new body-now I need to add an "uniboob option"....endless new sliders -I also need to create some stretch-sliders for the areola.

Creating Heels and leg-accessoires is of course depending on dedicated leg-sliders here more complexer, and the result I watched in game are all very interesting.

 

 

Pics: (tested with the zap-summerdress, no uniboob reference used and very close to skin: I quickly used the bone-weigting-copy and "confirm all sliders"-function, that´s it)

(feet stuff is more difficult when created for the first time, no doubts, specially for this leg-rotation-options)

 

1. new cbbe shape (zero sliders)

2. heels which support the complexer leg- and feet z-rotating fuctions (also ankle- and other slider support for other bodies)

4. all sliders zero (CBBE-OLD-shape)

3. One-slider-body-shape

5. Complexer slider setting use, to simmulate a shape which I played with the newer 3BBB CBBE SMP body inside of SSE-but with some leg- and feet-rotation tweaks.

All the other pics:. An overview of all the new additional sliders (racemenu)-inside of BS, I need to SORT them all out to get maybe also switch-off-options

 

An uniboob function I want to add soon

Areola-vertical-stretch and -rotate is still missing (I´ll try to add that, too)

And then I need a name for this thing

 

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by t.ara

[Musje]

16 hours ago, t.ara said:

You can check out that easily if you simply look into the x32-mod by groovtama. Those skeletons´s target folder and names are a working version. If now you add to them the saddle bone and the magic-bone of the original horse-saddle, give them the correct place by a helper-node, combined with a correct angle, then this is done. I always have some few skeletons there in the folder, in the past for some tests for this riding. I also created horses with two and more saddles-but also this is only possible if the behavior-graph of skyrim´s animation system is supporting this feature. The second seat behind the player can also get a different rhythm of the riding-animation and the backward sitting NPC can keep the hands holding onto the hips/waist of the rider. Bethesad did not see a need to do so because the NPC/followers are appearing mostly behind the player, as soon a cell becomes loaded new. The game is simply not made for "long" riding trips with followers or by using the carts, which do not work correctly-there´s too much nonsence with the havok-engine inside of that game. The carts do not have the correct weights. Around laying assets which are moveable can kill the player if touched twice or a third time. Collisions with such objects are in skyrim more dangerous than to fight against enemy.

 

p.s. adding those bones inside of NIFSCOPE afterwards needs a correct leave and overhaul of the new additions of the file. If that is not done ccorrectly the additions will not be "seen" by the game. NIFSCOPE can be little scary for such a job.

 

Have you actually gotten horses with 2 riders to work, by altering the skeleton?  I remember we messed around with it some time ago but it didn't actually work in the game.  I ended up making the Ride Sharing mod to let an NPC ride behind the player, but it does so by attaching a "vehicle" to the player with ball & socket constraint, then letting the NPC "enter" that vehicle; a process that still gives me nightmares from time to time.

 

The reason that long riding trips do not work that well when messing with the game engine, is that ball & socket constraints (whether it is an avatar connected to a vehicle, a horse connected to a cart, and so on) sometimes get disconnected when crossing a cell line (or when teleporting).  Ride Sharing detects this and reconnects everything, it looks silly but gets the job done.

 

And yes sometimes hitching a pony cart to an NPC will kill the player.  Such is life ?

[Musje]

That body looks nice BTW, I like the lady in the blue dress.

I use the body scale randomizer in combination with a body preset (CBBE at the moment) that ranges from slim to fat.  The challenge with a lot of these bodies is to get it to scale nicely across that range.

[t.ara]

2 minutes ago, Musje said:

 

Have you actually gotten horses with 2 riders to work, by altering the skeleton?  I remember we messed around with it some time ago but it didn't actually work in the game.  I ended up making the Ride Sharing mod to let an NPC ride behind the player, but it does so by attaching a "vehicle" to the player with ball & socket constraint, then letting the NPC "enter" that vehicle; a process that still gives me nightmares from time to time.

 

The reason that long riding trips do not work that well when messing with the game engine, is that ball & socket constraints (whether it is an avatar connected to a vehicle, a horse connected to a cart, and so on) sometimes get disconnected when crossing a cell line (or when teleporting).  Ride Sharing detects this and reconnects everything, it looks silly but gets the job done.

 

And yes sometimes hitching a pony cart to an NPC will kill the player.  Such is life ?

Happy NEW YEAR, dear MUSJE:-))

 

No, but I got a view behind the curtain of the animation behavior of skyrim and how to edit it. I´ve studied the content and by using NEMESIS, i finally added my first furniture without using FNIS. This is rock-solid and like the original stuff serious working-but it is more WORK to do so. NEMESIS has it´s downside in some aspects, but if used without letting NEMESIS convert existing FNIS mods, nemesis as quite professional abilities, compared with FNIS.

And as it is possible to edit and add new stuff into the skyrim-behavior, it´s of course possible to prepare such second horse-seat for a riding "together", like you maybe know that fom RDR2. I sometimes play RDR2 and I exactly watched how the second-seat behind the rider is acting. It´s of course necessary to do some conditions-the first seat is always the player only-I guess NPCs have no AI packs for riding so far (or do they also ride???) so that if the player is on the horse you need a dialogue to inv an NPC or maybe also a child to invite to RIDE. In that case the NPC has to mount onto the second seat (only)-I think the NPCs can´t use the first seat of a horse so far....and then the animation of the second seat needs to get a delayed rhythm, compared to the first seat. The NPC is ONLY passiv sitting and becomes into the motion-stage of "riding" with all it´s options. It´s a professional task if such a thing is consequently becoming truth in skyrim, too.

 

My character also dies if I kick a bone laying around and after the third time that bone is flying away like speed up with hyperspeed and then I die...same for pots and plates, if I squeeze them against walls or other collisions-it´s really fun..but not real behavior-this I meant. Take the moveable handcart and run sometimes against it...LOL:-)

I´d be very happy if skyrim would be working physically like GTA is doing. This would be so crazy!

 

[Musje]

I changed the ini file to limit fps to 60, that takes some of the danger out of the physics engine. For some reason the physics is tied to the fps.

[t.ara]

12 minutes ago, Musje said:

That body looks nice BTW, I like the lady in the blue dress.

I use the body scale randomizer in combination with a body preset (CBBE at the moment) that ranges from slim to fat.  The challenge with a lot of these bodies is to get it to scale nicely across that range.

As soon I have this ready, I share it - the dress is coming in next ZAP update, together with a new SMP stuff...sometimes I find some suiting simple stuff offered from creators of DAZ-assets. You can´t make all things become working WELL in skyrim, but lot of things lot nice also here.

I also jumped to CBBE, then I started with some new sliders-and I got this PROBLEM with the ZAP 9 to-CBBE-SMP-3BBB conversion, which was so much pain. And also the 3BBB body of caliente is not too flexiable as I again miss some shape forms onto the waist and hips, which I missed like always...so I wanted like COC and some others simply create a new MESH, and this mesh has no additional sex-part-it´s like usually from a single part and formed at the necesssary parts with more density of polygons. I tried to do  optimization with the topology and I feel I made a well working mesh. I also added suiting hnads and feet which have this complexer slider-addons coming with them. Also those meshes are suiting with the body´s poly-built and I added gap-flags with reverted texturing, which dive against each other, this is avoiding GAPS-means it is free of gaps, also in more extreme animations.

It´s of course necessay to keep on the existing skeleton and stick also to the overall diameters of the leg-size to aviod bending issures. I overtook the weightpainting and edited it to get more better fine-tune-results. I also overtook the new cbbe sliders and the new cbbe shape as well. Originally I wanted to play with the 3BBB CBBE body in LE, but caliente did not like to see that body being played in OLDRIM. COC made a 3BBB version, which lags on different aspects-the physics- options and creation of the sliders are very much problematic and unbelievable complex. So I decided to do this again with little more "feel" and I added such content, which I always missed on ALL those creations. The leg rotating and the XO function (X-legs/O-legs) and the LEG-apart sliders are simply a total contrast to what is available at the moment. I had endless breast-shapes coming out of DAZ-studio which I added here, lot of rotation-sliders for the trimming for breasts-i think, that this is a "shape-fun-stuff" for all times. Like ZAP has got more content, I now also added more content again to Bodyslide.

I can pre-share this dress if you want...textures you need to place inside the cloth-textures-folder of ZAP....(I share with you the new version-you need to delete the sliders from it and add the CBBE or body-sliders of your body´s settup then-also you need to add the weightpainting again!)

 

One moment...

[t.ara]

7 minutes ago, Musje said:

I changed the ini file to limit fps to 60, that takes some of the danger out of the physics engine. For some reason the physics is tied to the fps.

Yes, I also experimented with that-it´s relevant for HDT-PE and this newer "light"-physics for SSE...but for SMP in both games I did not feel a difference.

I thought to maybe keep with SMP for the BBBL-mechanic of the new body....anyway wanted I to test HDT-PE-but this is not compatible with SSE....PITy PITY PIttyyyy

[Musje]

5 minutes ago, t.ara said:

I can pre-share this dress if you want...textures you need to place inside the cloth-textures-folder of ZAP....(I share with you the new version-you need to delete the sliders from it and add the CBBE or body-sliders of your body´s settup then-also you need to add the weightpainting again!)

 

One moment...

 

That's ok, the dress is nice but I'm interested in the body

Still looking for good male bodies too.  At least there are some working bodyslide enabled ones now

[t.ara]

One into shape-folder, next one into the slider folder and last one is inside of: .............ZaZ/023Cloths

Delete the weightpainting and the sliders and create your suiting ones.

 

Comes in some variations...

If you want to play it directly you need to overinstall the ZAP-esm....my last version of it (some content will not be working !!!!!!)

zazSummerDressPencil.7z zazSummerDressPencilSliderSETS.7z SummerDressZaZ_023Cloths.7z ZaZAnimationPack.7z