Daughter of Coldharbor

[Calista]

I ran across a discussion about the whole Malog Bal ceremony awhile back, but haven't heard or seen anything about it since. I believe it was originally posted 2012 or 2013.  Does anyone know anything about it? 

[Baltasarr80]

Not really. There is a Race for this and also a starting point where you get turned/or start as a daughter of Coldharbor but outside that ... not really

 

[Gukahn]

The only information i ever got was the short explanation and theory's coming from it. Just that you would need a big sacrifice , being Powerful in your own right, like Harkon and Valerica where as King and Queen and offer up your Body to Molag Bal himself after summoning him, something that can't be easy to do i imagine. Somehow Harkons story is a bit different since he didn't offer up his Body and a  big number of Souls instead, other Theory about it is that he just got turned later by Valerica. (Why he didn't get violated like Mother and Daughter i never understood. Don't think Bal minds gender that much ?)

Everything other then that? Nope, not that i remember.

[Alessia Wellington]

6 minutes ago, Gukahn said:

Why he didn't get violated like Mother and Daughter i never understood.

 

Maybe his ass was too gross for Molag.

[SmedleyDButler]

Maybe he did!

[Darkpig]

4 hours ago, Gukahn said:

 Somehow Harkons story is a bit different since he didn't offer up his Body and a  big number of Souls instead, other Theory about it is that he just got turned later by Valerica. (Why he didn't get violated like Mother and Daughter i never understood. Don't think Bal minds gender that much ?)

Everything other then that? Nope, not that i remember.

How does one know Harkon's ass wasn't ravaged by Molag Bal? Was it Harkon himself that denied it? If so how do we know he isn't lying? He does have a history of doing that.

 

Did Harkon write it down somewhere? Was there somebody else who was there being vague about it for whatever reason?

[Gukahn]

4 hours ago, Darkpig said:

How does one know Harkon's ass wasn't ravaged by Molag Bal? Was it Harkon himself that denied it? If so how do we know he isn't lying? He does have a history of doing that.

 

Did Harkon write it down somewhere? Was there somebody else who was there being vague about it for whatever reason?

Of course not. The only time I read about it was on the Wiki Site were it said "He pledged" so and so many Lives to become a Vampire Lord. That's very vague of course ?

[Darkpig]

12 hours ago, Gukahn said:

Of course not. The only time I read about it was on the Wiki Site were it said "He pledged" so and so many Lives to become a Vampire Lord. That's very vague of course ?

You mean this one?

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Harkon?so=search

If so that is very vague. Then again it isn't a stretch to say Harkon got off easy. I mean all I had to do to get Molag Bal's favor was hit an asshole with a mace.

[SmedleyDButler]

The fandom.com wiki site is hot garbo.

 

UESP da best.

[Gukahn]

3 hours ago, Darkpig said:

You mean this one?

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Harkon?so=search

If so that is very vague. Then again it isn't a stretch to say Harkon got off easy. I mean all I had to do to get Molag Bal's favor was hit an asshole with a mace.

 

Yes i meant this. Like you said, it's extremely vague.

Maybe he really got the easy route to Power. I find it a little unfair but again, it's always talk about the daughter of coldharbor, never the Son of Coldharbor, so the theory that he doesn't got raped by Bal could be true.

 

23 minutes ago, SmedleyDButler said:

The fandom.com wiki site is hot garbo.

 

UESP da best.

Normally i would agree but the usep says the same thing.

[Darkpig]

29 minutes ago, SmedleyDButler said:

UESP da best.

I do find myself using that a lot. There is so much valuable information that I seem to miss the first time around.

7 minutes ago, Gukahn said:

Yes i meant this. Like you said, it's extremely vague.

Maybe he really got the easy route to Power. I find it a little unfair but again, it's always talk about the daughter of coldharbor, never the Son of Coldharbor, so the theory that he doesn't got raped by Bal could be true.

It could also be a power play. Diagnosing the things he said there is still a possibility:

 

"In an age long forgotten to history, I ruled as a mighty king. My domain was vast, my riches endless and my power infinite. And yet, as my mortal life neared an end, I faced a seemingly invincible enemy -- my own mortality. I pledged myself to Molag Bal, and in his name I sacrificed a thousand innocents. In reward, he gave everlasting life to myself, my wife and my daughter. And so I have defeated mortality itself."

 

The beginning shows he is a bit of a narc who do tend to lie. Then he speaks of being near the end of his life meaning he was desperate so again the possibility is still there.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Darkpig

[Gukahn]

36 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

It could also be a power play. Diagnosing the things he said there is still a possibility:

Yes, not wanting to admit he took part in something humiliating would be in his Character. If he gone through the same ordeal like Serana and Valerica, he would never tell you. I find it interesting that Valerica willingly tells you about it. But she probably doesn't care about your opinion. Harkon on the other Hand, his Image is part of his power and he has to maintain a certain amount of fear around him. This is even more true if we talk about some of the other Vampires wanting his position. The only thing that keeps them at bay is fear of his power and storys around him. Hearing that he got raped by Molag for that would at least give them something to talk about.

 

Another theroy that he didn't got the power from Bal, but from Valerica after she gained it, making him not a  pure blood vampire but a half blood  like the others and yourself also would hurt his Image.  It would make sense for him to lie.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Gukahn

[Darkpig]

18 minutes ago, Gukahn said:

Yes, not wanting to admit he took part in something humiliating would be in his Character. If he gone through the same ordeal like Serana and Valerica, he would never tell you. I find it interesting that Valerica willingly tells you about it. But she probably doesn't care about your opinion. Harkon on the other Hand, his Image is part of his power and he has to maintain a certain amount of fear around him. This is even more true if we talk about some of the other Vampires wanting his position. The only thing that keeps them at bay is fear of his power and storys around him. Hearing that he got raped by Molag for that would at least give them something to talk about.

 

Another theroy that he didn't got the power from Bal, but from Valerica after she gained it, making him not a  pure blood vampire but a half blood  like the others and yourself also would hurt his Image.  It would make sense for him to lie.

Funny enough I always assumed Harkon was a partial blood just enough in there to turn you into a Vampire Lord.

 

Of course Valerica doesn't mind telling you considering you likely already heard it based the rumors within Harkon's court or if you play the Dawngard side her daughter likely told you. It is also likely she mentioned it in hopes of bringing Serana who is always within earshot, back to her senses to show the shit they had to go through to get immortality only for daddy Harkon to fuck it up. Considering Valerica is a misanthrope hermit scientist she obviously doesn't have the desire to put on the same show as Harkon.

[Gukahn]

3 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Considering Valerica is a misanthrope hermit scientist she obviously doesn't have the desire to put on the same show as Harkon

That and if everything is true, she is more powerful then him in a one on one fight. She should be at least. Dunno about Serana, seeing how long she was sealed away but potentially, she should be at least the second most powerful Vampire we encounter in the Game, making Harkon Number 3. Something that really would piss him off.

Makes me thinking about the vampire lord form. Maybe it isn't the most powerful Tool in their Arsenal, just Harkon only being slightly more powerful in it to make a difference when fighting you and Serana together? Which begs the Question, how powerful they really are or to put it better, how big their potential might be? 

 

[Darkpig]

44 minutes ago, Gukahn said:

That and if everything is true, she is more powerful then him in a one on one fight. She should be at least. Dunno about Serana, seeing how long she was sealed away but potentially, she should be at least the second most powerful Vampire we encounter in the Game, making Harkon Number 3. Something that really would piss him off.

Makes me thinking about the vampire lord form. Maybe it isn't the most powerful Tool in their Arsenal, just Harkon only being slightly more powerful in it to make a difference when fighting you and Serana together? Which begs the Question, how powerful they really are or to put it better, how big their potential might be? 

Now that I think about it Harkon being a half blood doesn't make as much sense as I originally thought. Valerica is actually afraid of Harkon enough so as to seal her daughter away and hide from the court. Whether that means she is afraid of Harkon himself or Harkon + his court I'm uncertain. I will admit Serana is probably the smartest of the three with Valerica being a close second at least in terms of magical research. As for the vampire lord being the strongest I think it might be the strongest at least within the castle walls. Outside the castle walls the strongest is definitely M'aiq.

[Gukahn]

11 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Now that I think about it Harkon being a half blood doesn't make as much sense as I originally thought. Valerica is actually afraid of Harkon enough so as to seal her daughter away and hide from the court. Whether that means she is afraid of Harkon himself or Harkon + his court I'm uncertain. I will admit Serana is probably the smartest of the three with Valerica being a close second at least in terms of magical research. As for the vampire lord being the strongest I think it might be the strongest at least within the castle walls

True.. But what if, just what if, she isn't afraid. She just can't bring herself to stop him permanently? Think about it, they where married for a very long time, even before becoming vampires both should be at least in their early 50´s. Then here is Serana, their Daughter. From a humane point of view, could you kill the one person in the world with whom you share such a long history? Even if you hate that person, killing it would be like killing a part of yourself.

so what if Valerica does all those things, hiding Serana, escaping the court, not because she is afraid but just because the human side of her couldn't bring herself to end it until Harkons point of no return (the moment he or the dawnguard got the Moth Priest.)

 

Serana in the same boat, always found it strange how fast she got from "hello Dad" to "Let's kill this Fucker." But Bethesda was  never good at character writing.

 

11 minutes ago, Darkpig said:

Outside the castle walls the strongest is definitely M'aiq.

agreed. Nobody bests him. He is everywhere and nowhere. The most powerful Being in all of Nirn

Edited July 16, 2022 by Gukahn

[Darkpig]

20 hours ago, Gukahn said:

True.. But what if, just what if, she isn't afraid. She just can't bring herself to stop him permanently? Think about it, they where married for a very long time, even before becoming vampires both should be at least in their early 50´s. Then here is Serana, their Daughter. From a humane point of view, could you kill the one person in the world with whom you share such a long history? Even if you hate that person, killing it would be like killing a part of yourself.

so what if Valerica does all those things, hiding Serana, escaping the court, not because she is afraid but just because the human side of her couldn't bring herself to end it until Harkons point of no return (the moment he or the dawnguard got the Moth Priest.)

 

Serana in the same boat, always found it strange how fast she got from "hello Dad" to "Let's kill this Fucker." But Bethesda was  never good at character writing.

Valerica sealing her daughter away for hundreds of years isn't exactly ethical either. That too is like killing off a part of yourself as that would mean losing many years of your life you could be spending with your own flesh and blood. After a few hundred years of not being able to see your husband who is trying to kill you and your daughter you sealed away you'd think maybe it is time to kill this fucker. Yes she was sealed by the ideal masters for who knows how long but even if you offer to take her with you after facing down Durnehviir she'll say things like this: "Like Serana, I am a Daughter of Coldharbour, a vampire offspring of Molag Bal. My presence in Tamriel would simply double the risk that Harkon could complete the prophecy."

 

About Serana , not to sound like Spock but "Lets kill this fucker" is the only logical conclusion. Some people find it easier to let go of familial attachments than others. I remember Harkon saying he would kill Valerica without a second thought these being the words "Of course I'm delighted to see you, my daughter. Must I really say the words aloud? Ah, if only your traitor mother were here, I would let her watch this reunion before putting her head on a spike. Now tell me, who is this stranger you have brought into our hall?" I'd have imagined she had enough time to think about all this given Harkon was a raving madman for bout a thousand years give or take.