Naked Defeat SE

[Nymra]

10 minutes ago, N.Gamma said:

I only care about SL Defeat because I use some mods from Bakafactory that require SL Defeat as an option. Also, Bakafaktory has added some great animations and tweaks to their version of SL Defeat.

 

ah I see. 
yeah, well, animations are one thing, but the basic functionatlity and especially bugs/instability of SL defeat was never fixed, even with all the chaos of patches that was released. 

I might be able to even integrate some of those animations into Naked Defeat. 

[N.Gamma]

3 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I might be able to even integrate some of those animations into Naked Defeat. 

That would be very good, because the animations are mainly defeat animations for different races and situations, and Bakafactory has really created some great animations.

[Nymra]

8 minutes ago, Derangers said:

As you can see, I am next to the enemy, when the scene with the creatures ends, they let me go

 

hmm, this is very strange.

 

some things dont seem right.

 

1. the mod should recognize the hits from those bandits on your character 

(in the log: NAKED DEFEAT playeralias: OnHit (LastHitter: "name")

and then change the defeat type accordingly.

 

are those normal bandits or added by some mod? 

 

2. can you try the same situation with distance 10.000? just curious

 

3. can you try to really fight? like at least draw a weapon? I wonder if in your game the character is not recognized as "in combat" for some reason. 

 

4. make sure no DHLP status is true. 

I see in the MCM in upper right corner "DHLP status (external) true", so some other mod is currently blocking Naked Defeat.

If you cannot fix this, you can try to use "Sexlab Disparity" mod it has an option to remove dhlp suspend.

sadly I have no debug for that particular option integrated and dont know if there is a console command for it. 

 

the thing is, the mod should not start at all since its DHLP suspended, I have to check why it still bothers to start.

thx for the report.

[Nymra]

11 minutes ago, N.Gamma said:

That would be very good, because the animations are mainly defeat animations for different races and situations, and Bakafactory has really created some great animations.

 

If possible I want to integrate them into my forced foreplay mod, so its not only naked defeat or SL defeat that can use them. That is in case they are not "paired" animations... which are an entirely different thing to handle  yeah... I ll have a look, but its not high prio atm. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Nymra

[Nymra]

@Derangers for the DHLP suspend (external) TRUE, might help to disable/enable Naked Defeat, maybe it goes away then. If not tell me, then I might have to add additional checks

[Derangers]

1) У меня есть моды на большее количество противников, но это были стандартные

2) Пробовал увеличивать дистанцию эффект тот же

3) Когда дрался, происходит то же самое, но попробую еще раз.

4) Я сейчас с DHCP не пробовал проверю.

For example, if I include using women as an aggressor, then it works with them, but it does not affect men.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Derangers

[Nymra]

16 minutes ago, Derangers said:

For example, if I include using women as an aggressor, then it works with them, but it does not affect men.

 

GOTCHA!

found a bug

 

the DHLP suspend issue is still a weird one, but in fact it is a combination of two factors:

 

1. you have an active DHLP suspend which should not be

2. due to the DHLP suspend a rare situation occurs where in fact a small bug of mine leads to this outcome.

 

this should fix your current problem at least.

I will work on resolving the bigger picture for the next update, hmm.

keep me posted on that DHLP suspend tho! 

nade_calmquest_qf_scr.pex

[Derangers]

30 minutes ago, Nymra said:

 

ПОПАЛСЯ!

нашел ошибку

 

Проблема приостановки работы DHLP по-прежнему остается странной, но на самом деле это комбинация двух факторов:

 

1. у вас есть активная приостановка DHLP, которой не должно быть

2. из-за приостановки DHLP возникает редкая ситуация, когда на самом деле моя небольшая ошибка приводит к такому результату.

 

это должно как минимум решить вашу текущую проблему.

Я буду работать над разрешением более широкой картины для следующего обновления, хм.

держите меня в курсе, что DHLP приостанавливает работу! 

nade_calmquest_qf_scr.pex 109.99 кБ · 1 загрузка

Now everything is working, thank you for your help.

[gerroth]

Just installed 4.40 and so far it seems to be a HUGE boost on reliability when playing with a follower and using the "robbery" feature. The issues I reported are completely gone, the new follower features also seem to work great on SE so far.

[Nymra]

this time Mistress Tahlia endend up on the stick

thats for beeing rude to Lola! 

[veinhan]

can the player or follower rape npcs? or npc vs npc without player involve in the scene?

[Anunya]

Heya - I'm installing 4.40 and the 4.41 patch right now. I'm getting conflicts with whipmarks and rapehands and so on... do I still need those extra files, or are they included now?

[Anunya]

I've installed 4.40 and 4.41 (I was on 4.2) to test the hair thing on SE with a variety of hairstyles... except, I no longer see the MCM in game. This is with a fresh game and everything. Maybe I messed something up along the way, but I haven't had MCM problems with Naked Defeat ever before.

 

So... no SSE hair test report from me today.

[Talesien]

Got an odd problem with the new version + .41 patch. After rape the player re-dresses and then the whipping takes place in full armor. Now, this can be circumvented by unchecking the "victims re-dress" option in SexLab, but that comes with its own set of issues concerning followers and other NPC's.

Edit: Appears the problem is related or rather caused by SL Separate Orgasms SE, without SLSO things work as expected. I guess with SLSO a sex scene terminates somehow differently to what ND expects?

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by Talesien

[VirginMarie]

8 hours ago, Nymra said:

4. make sure no DHLP status is true. 

I see in the MCM in upper right corner "DHLP status (external) true", so some other mod is currently blocking Naked Defeat.

If you cannot fix this, you can try to use "Sexlab Disparity" mod it has an option to remove dhlp suspend.

sadly I have no debug for that particular option integrated and dont know if there is a console command for it. 

 

the thing is, the mod should not start at all since its DHLP suspended, I have to check why it still bothers to start.

thx for the report.

 

Toys has a "Player Reset" in its MCM Misc tab. This will remove the DHLP suspend status (it sends a DHLP resume).

• Toys uses the DHLP mod event (suspend and resume). This was done to tell DCL to not break it's scenes
  • Apparently some other mods listen to that too, I know of only one other... Deviously Helpless which is where the thing originated I think (the DH in the acronym)
• Wondering if your mod is listening? If so that's good for Toys Family of mods
• I'm curious to know more. In my experience the DHLP mod event is miss-used so those that listen can be negatively impacted, like maybe you are finding. For that reason I avoid being a listener
• Toys sends, but does not listen. Toys is very careful not to miss-use. A sender must never forget to "resume" after the scene that they are trying to protect
• Toys content mods are also indirectly sending, but not listening, via Toys
• For "scene busy status sharing" (both setting and listening), Toys uses a global (ToysBusy). It also sets a StorageUtil value "Toys_SceneRunning" (an alternative to checking the global). Either of these can be listened to directly. To "set" one needs to use the Toys API. The API functions taking care of those also send the DHLP mod events, but as mentioned, don't listen to mod events

Edited December 20, 2021 by VirginMarie

[crococat]

2 hours ago, Anunya said:

I've installed 4.40 and 4.41 (I was on 4.2) to test the hair thing on SE with a variety of hairstyles... except, I no longer see the MCM in game. This is with a fresh game and everything. Maybe I messed something up along the way, but I haven't had MCM problems with Naked Defeat ever before

The same thing. On fresh save must install 4.4 to have MCM, than upgrade to 4.41. If install both in one time MCM is missing.

 

And now dont have any sex at all (cannot start sexlab or add actors) so just had whipped multiple times.

Have all actors enabled. Added more tags with no effect. Sexlab in other mods is working well.

Will try 4.4 with no patch.

[crococat]

Tested with 4.4 no patch (just disable it in MO, load, disable mod, save, load, enable) and all is ok. As for my game patch 4.41 breakes the mod.

[chamber131]

Mcm menu not appearing 

[Nymra]

8 hours ago, VirginMarie said:

 

Toys has a "Player Reset" in its MCM Misc tab. This will remove the DHLP suspend status (it sends a DHLP resume).

• Toys uses the DHLP mod event (suspend and resume). This was done to tell DCL to not break it's scenes
  • Apparently some other mods listen to that too, I know of only one other... Deviously Helpless which is where the thing originated I think (the DH in the acronym)
• Wondering if your mod is listening? If so that's good for Toys Family of mods
• I'm curious to know more. In my experience the DHLP mod event is miss-used so those that listen can be negatively impacted, like maybe you are finding. For that reason I avoid being a listener
• Toys sends, but does not listen. Toys is very careful not to miss-use. A sender must never forget to "resume" after the scene that they are trying to protect
• Toys content mods are also indirectly sending, but not listening, via Toys
• For "scene busy status sharing" (both setting and listening), Toys uses a global (ToysBusy). It also sets a StorageUtil value "Toys_SceneRunning" (an alternative to checking the global). Either of these can be listened to directly. To "set" one needs to use the Toys API. The API functions taking care of those also send the DHLP mod events, but as mentioned, don't listen to mod events

 

DHLP suspend is a very important Mod event that should be used to prevent loverslab mods from fucking each other up.

Reason:
Many mods only check if an actor is in a sexlab scene and do NOT fire during the sex scene.

But that is not enough. When a mod starts 2 sex scenes in a row, another mod could still fire in between those two scenes (happened to me often enough).

 

So DHLP suspend has to be sent BEOFRE the first scene plays and AFTER the last scene ends we send DHLP resume.

 

Naked Defeat does the same. As soon as the first script fires when the PC enters bleedout, Naked Defeat sends DHLP suspend.

As soon as the Player is free, I send DHLP resume.

 

As for Toys:

Its ok to protect scenes started (for example when there is a fondle event or sth) 

But the time for the DHLP suspend should be very short then.

If Toys uses DHLP suspend as long as you have a Toy Device equiped, it is game breaking and should not happen.

 

Same time ideally toys should listen for active DHLP suspend and NOT start any of its scenes in the meantime.

For example when a character has a toy and enters Naked Defeat and will start a fondle event or orgasm event or whatnot, it will break Naked Defeats scenes and chain of events.

 

I had no time yet to work on comaptibility between toys and Naked Defeat, DD compatibility is first at the moment (patreons wishes :D).

 

Naked Defeat sends two modevents out:

 

SendModEvent("dhlp-Suspend")

SendModEvent("dhlp-Resume")

    SendModEvent("nade-Suspend")

    SendModEvent("nade-Resume")

so you can also just listen for nade suspend, when you dont want to have DHLP suspend out

 

Some more Details from my "For Modders page": 

Spoiler

For Sex mods                                                                                                                                                                 

 

When Naked Defeat is started it will send two Modevents:

 

    SendModEvent("dhlp-Suspend")
    SendModEvent("nade-Suspend")

 

Your mod has to catch this event with:

 

    RegisterForModEvent("dhlp-Suspend", "OnSuspend")
    RegisterForModEvent("dhlp-Resume", "OnResume")

 

and then have functions like this:

 

Event OnSuspend(string eventName, string strArg, float numArg, Form sender)      

    if (sender != self); from another mod
    dhlpSuspendStatus = true
    endif
EndEvent

Event OnResume(string eventName, string strArg, float numArg, Form sender)       
    if (sender != self); from another mod
    dhlpSuspendStatus = false
    endif
EndEvent

 

Meaning your mod should essentially be on Pause between the dhlp-suspend and the dhlp-resume event.

 

Dhlp-Suspend is used as a standard for mods like this and basically ALL sexlab based mods should listen to this event and then pause their functionality until there is a "resume" event.

Example: 2 Mods have public rape function. 1st mod fires first and starts sex. now mod 2 thinks its good to start sex and he starts too. So now we have two sex scenes starting at the same time or one scene starting while the other still runs, fucking everything up!

Important 1: This can also happen when Mod 1 starts 2 Sex Scenes consecutivly. Another mod could fire in between them.

Important 2: It is NOT enough for your mod to check for "IsInFaction(SexlabAnimatingFaction). This only protects running sex scenes, but is VERY unreliable because due to the nature of scripts it can still lead to double scenes AND it can still lead to the problem from "1", because many mods not only start sex but also other stuff (Struggle games, whip scenes, pauses between sex, bondage, furniture... etc. etc.)

 

nade-suspend/resume is used in addition to that for mods that do NOT want to work with DHLP suspend for some reason, but dont want to fire during Naked Defeat.
For example I am planning to add my own spectator function at some point and my own "fade" feature. So mods like SpectatorCrowds Ultra will need to be patched to listen for nade-suspend/resume if possible or they might become incompatible (with that feature at least). 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Nymra

[Nymra]

10 hours ago, Anunya said:

Heya - I'm installing 4.40 and the 4.41 patch right now. I'm getting conflicts with whipmarks and rapehands and so on... do I still need those extra files, or are they included now?

 

there are no conflicts.

as in the description the basic download contains basic tattoos (1K resolution) and the extra files are, well, extra if you want higher resolution.

[Nymra]

9 hours ago, Talesien said:

Got an odd problem with the new version + .41 patch. After rape the player re-dresses and then the whipping takes place in full armor. Now, this can be circumvented by unchecking the "victims re-dress" option in SexLab, but that comes with its own set of issues concerning followers and other NPC's.

Edit: Appears the problem is related or rather caused by SL Separate Orgasms SE, without SLSO things work as expected. I guess with SLSO a sex scene terminates somehow differently to what ND expects?

 

 

I have no idea really. I never used "Victims redress" in like forever and my followers still put their stuff back on when naked defeat ends. I am using Nethers Follower Framework.

 

You could use "nym stripping" as an option, it strips the PC on various occasions. I will also expand its functionality.

 

For Followers there are some forced stripping sequences implemented to make sure they remain naked during the scenes).

 

as for SLSO: 
my guess is, that SLSO somehow delays the AnimationEnd and AnimationEnding modevents from Sexlab. I use those to start the "post sex idle" portion of the game.

To really see what is going on, I would need a Papyrus.log.

But even then I can guarantee nothing. I m not using SLSO and cannot reproduce the issue. 

[Nymra]

5 hours ago, crococat said:

Tested with 4.4 no patch (just disable it in MO, load, disable mod, save, load, enable) and all is ok. As for my game patch 4.41 breakes the mod.

 

these are unecessary steps and wrong also (disabling the mod in MO before disabling it in the MCM can cause issues, but maybe you just described this the wrong way)

It is NOT required to make a clean save BEFORE installing the new version.

Only reason to do that is alway ONLY when there is something wrong/buggy, then a clean save might be a last resort.

I always try to avoid a clean save requirement for all my updates.

 

 

So please try this for the update, just in case: 

@Anunya@chamber131 @crococat

 

So for updating to 4.41:

- install new version 4.40 + patch 4.41

- load your savegame

- disable Naked Defeat in MCM

- save and reload
- enable Naked Defeat in MCM 

 

This should be sufficient for updating in this case.

 

Give the MCM some time to show up on new games. Install Sexlab first, save and reload, wait some hours ingame.

It can take some time for me to show up, too.

Move Naked Defeat AT THE END of your Load Order too. 

 

[Nymra]

12 hours ago, veinhan said:

can the player or follower rape npcs?

no

this mod centers on NPC fucks PC (and followers)

 

12 hours ago, veinhan said:

or npc vs npc without player involve in the scene?

 

I m working on a soft implementation, where the PC can be forced to watch while the followers are fucked. 

 

[VirginMarie]

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

DHLP suspend is a very important Mod event that should be used to prevent loverslab mods from fucking each other up.

 

Ok cool so Naked Defeat is listening. This means that it's already very compatible with the whole Toys Family of Mods.

 

My goal in discussing it with you was 3 things...

1. Looked like it my be helpful to know that the Toys MCM Player Reset clears it
2. Wanted to find out if you are a listener - answered... you are
3. Wanted to share with you my experience, that it's miss-used, thus maybe a little dangerous to be on the listening side
   • I think... It did not get adopted widely as a standard & the mods miss-using it have inactive authors

I agree with everything you said and are teaching. I've been teaching it for 5 years, although I see DHLP as only part of the solution. I've already stated the below items, but will restate in summary fashion...

• Toys sends, but does not listen. Toys content mods are also indirectly sending, but not listening, via Toys. Being a listener makes you compatible with Toys Family of mods
• Toys is very careful not to miss-use. It's not one of the mods miss-using, I promise
• Toys has a significant "scene management" set of APIs that deal with busy status using multiple methods

 

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

As for Toys:

Its ok to protect scenes started (for example when there is a fondle event or sth)

 

Toys protects any scene where the player controls are locked. Nothing else. So Spontaneous Orgasm is protected (unless it the "moving" version), and broadcasting stuff to listen for, but Fondle does not. Fondle does not lock player controls so there is nothing to protect. The numerous animation scenes in Toys Content Mods, most of which don't use sexlab, are in that category of "controls are locked", so they protect, and they broadcast, through toys.

 

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

If Toys uses DHLP suspend as long as you have a Toy Device equiped, it is game breaking and should not happen.

 

Of course. No reason to. Would be absurd.

 

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

Same time ideally toys should listen for active DHLP suspend and NOT start any of its scenes in the meantime.

 

As stated, in my experience there are mods miss-using it, thus I wont be a listener. But the scene management functions I mentioned do check for your mods busy states using multiple other methods... are the player controls locked? Is the player in furniture? Yes it checks for sexlab too. And no, it won't catch the case of 2 sexlab scenes serial playing unless you keep the player controls locked, which is probably a good idea.

 

Since we have checks on both sides, I would expect the Naked Defeat with the Toys Family of Mods are far more compatible with each other, than most mods out there. I say that because the majority are not listeners, and have no or limited alternate checks. But that said, if its found that Toys is causing trouble, I'd certainly use your nade-Suspend.

 

49 minutes ago, Nymra said:

I had no time yet to work on comaptibility between toys and Naked Defeat, DD compatibility is first at the moment (patreons wishes :D).

 

You are already done. I will be trying it too but I bet we are good. Work on equipping some toys instead!

 

[Nymra]

3 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

1. Wanted to share with you my experience, that it's miss-used, thus maybe a little dangerous to be on the listening side
   • I think... It did not get adopted widely as a standard & the mods miss-using it have inactive authors

 

I am working on updating old mods to respect DHLP both active and passive. Also working on making patches for Nexus mods I am using to be compatible.

To date I did not find a mod that missbehaves. Which mods do not use this correctly?

 

3 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

I agree with everything you said and are teaching. I've been teaching it for 5 years, although I see DHLP as only part of the solution. I've already stated the below items, but will restate in summary fashion...

• Toys sends, but does not listen. Toys content mods are also indirectly sending, but not listening, via Toys. Being a listener makes you compatible with Toys Family of mods
• Toys is very careful not to miss-use. It's not one of the mods miss-using, I promise
• Toys has a significant "scene management" set of APIs that deal with busy status using multiple methods

Toys protects any scene where the player controls are locked. Nothing else. So Spontaneous Orgasm is protected (unless it the "moving" version), and broadcasting stuff to listen for, but Fondle does not. Fondle does not lock player controls so there is nothing to protect. The numerous animation scenes in Toys Content Mods, most of which don't use sexlab, are in that category of "controls are locked", so they protect, and they broadcast, through toys.

 

As stated, in my experience there are mods miss-using it, thus I wont be a listener. But the scene management functions I mentioned do check for your mods busy states using multiple other methods... are the player controls locked? Is the player in furniture? Yes it checks for sexlab too. And no, it won't catch the case of 2 sexlab scenes serial playing unless you keep the player controls locked, which is probably a good idea.

 

this not sufficient at all sadly. suspend events create an umbrella/cloak that works from Startpoint to Endpoint with 100% accuracy.

Checking for scenes or controls locked is not working, especially not for Naked Defeat.

Sexlab itself is basically the "bug" in that regard, since sexlab fucks with controls like it wants and makes it very hard to work with actually.

 

In other words: there are always time windows where player controls are not locked and mods can "invade" at that point. 

Also I have parts of the mod where the controls are unlocked for practical reasons, for example when the PC is required to walk from A to B activly. This would also be parts where the mod can be "invaded".

Then there are NPC, which can be fucked over by other mods too and they are not in a scene 100% of the time either.

 

3 minutes ago, VirginMarie said:

Since we have checks on both sides, I would expect the Naked Defeat with the Toys Family of Mods are far more compatible with each other, than most mods out there. I say that because the majority are not listeners, and have no or limited alternate checks. But that said, if its found that Toys is causing trouble, I'd certainly use your nade-Suspend.

 

You are already done. I will be trying it too but I bet we are good. Work on equipping some toys instead!

 

 

To keep it short here: when Toys is not listening for DHLP suspend (or in my case Nade Suspend) I would guess there is a 90% chance of incompatibility, just from my previous experience with such stuff.

Might be wrong, but atm I sadly do not have time to create a testing environment since my time for deveolping Naked Defeat is already very tight packed

 

if you want to increase compatibility, you can make two things:

 

1. Make Toys listen for "nade-suspend/resume" instead, its an event only my mod is using and suspend events for the duration

2. make dhlp suspend optional in MCM. ideally it should be always on, but the users should be able to disable Toys listening for DHLP suspend (if need be. but ideally it should not be required and "bad" mods beeing reported, updated or marked incompatible and uninstalled) or debug it, also having the possibiltiy to see if a DHLP is active atm (I just guessing here you have that in your MCM too when you have a debug for it).

3. also also I think there is a possibility to check WHICH mod is sending DHLP resume/suspend

 

Event OnSuspend(string eventName, string strArg, float numArg, Form sender)        ;DHLP SUSPEND EVENT

    if (sender != self)     ;from another mod
    dhlpSuspendStatus = true
    endif
EndEvent

 

but I never got around testing how this works and if it works...