Blender To HKX Development Thread

[Vader666]

3 hours ago, dagobaking said:

Like do the animateable bones somehow influence the skin bones

 

By hierachy.

The _skin bones are linked to animateable bones which means they move respectively to their parent.

Since meshes are skinned to the _skin bones they do take part in the final result.

Because of that you shouldn't delete these, or any "extra" bones, in your scene file, that would break the skinning of your meshes you need to see what you're doing.

Since bones not apparent in the skeleton.hkx / rigmap.txt won't get recognised by havok in any way, just leave them be.

Typically those bones get hidden in the scene file to reduce visual clutter and won't be constrained to the control rig.

 

 

[infiniteone]

19 hours ago, Ulfberto said:

what's broken exactly if i may ask? I imported the nif with the plugin as well and it seems all bones are there. Penis bones included.

Hey man! I love your mods!!! ❤️
I dont think its broken, ive just been making custom body style, but for some reason the hierarchy of the rig was lost when I imported the body about a month or so ago. I suspect its because I was using a very old version of Pynifly to import with.  Oddly, I had updated it, but maybe because I have so many different versions of blender installed, I updated the wrong one before, or when I updated it didnt switch to the 4x branch of pynifly from some blender bug, for some reason I was stuck on version 2x, I had to go in and clean out all previous versions before the install would register, Thats most likely why the bones were fubar for me.  Funny enough I even reported about it for Skyrim in pynifly github, it was doing almost the same there & I couldn't figure out why, but it still worked, its jut the outliner didnt have hierarchy of bones set, they were all flat one level under root bone.

[infiniteone]

13 hours ago, dagobaking said:

 

I think what you suggested before would probably work. Fallout 4 Zex Rig for 3DS -> FBX -> Blender -> <Clean Up and Re-Do Controls>

 

Though, my experience going from 3DS->FBX->Blender never quite worked. I've heard that it's finicky and settings need to be just right. Haven't had time to test much yet.

 

Another thing I've noticed is that Leito's 3DS rig for Zex includes BOTH all nif bones and the extra hkx ones. After testing, it seems like a lot of those extra bones can just be removed, making the setup easier to understand/use. But, maybe I'm missing something? Like do the animateable bones somehow influence the skin bones which then manipulate the mesh in special ways?

 

I have not yet tried to export an animation.  Im surprised there's missing bones still? Seemed like there was so many more added by importing zex skel.

I quickly output a list from blender of all the bones in the armature.
 

Spoiler

{'Penis_04', 'Chest_Rear_Skin', 'Tail_CBP_00', 'LArm_Hand', 'Tail_CBP_04', 'LArm_ForeArm2_skin', 'LArm_Finger12', 'Spine2_Rear_skin', 'Anus_02', 'Breast_CBP_L_02', 'LArm_UpperTwist1_skin', 'RArm_ShoulderFat_skin', 'Penis_05', 'RArm_Finger52', 'RArm_ForeArm3_skin', 'Penis_01', 'RLeg_Thigh_Low_skin', 'Breast_CBP_L_03', 'Penis_CBP_02', 'Tongue_00', 'RLeg_Calf', 'Neck_Low_skin', 'LArm_UpperArm', 'Penis_CBP_04', 'Thigh_CBP_R_F_02', 'Tail_CBP_03', 'Penis_Balls_CBP_02', 'RArm_Finger32', 'LArm_Finger33', 'Breast_CBP_L_03_OFFSET', 'Butt_L_01', 'RArm_ForeArm2_skin', 'Penis_CBP_00', 'CamTarget', 'Breast_CBP_R_04', 'Thigh_CBP_L_B_01', 'LBreast_skin', 'WeaponLeft', 'Penis_CBP_05', 'RBreast_skin', 'Anus_01', 'Chest_skin', 'Breast_CBP_L_04', 'LArm_ForeArm1', 'LArm_Finger42', 'Vagina_CBP_00', 'RLeg_Thigh', 'Vagina_R_01', 'Butt_CBP_R_01', 'LArm_ForeArm2', 'Spine1_Rear_skin', 'Penis_CBP_03', 'LLeg_Thigh_Low_skin', 'R_RibHelper', 'Anus_04', 'Breast_R_02', 'RLeg_Thigh_skin', 'Vagina_R_02', 'Root', 'Tongue_03', 'Vagina_CBP_R_02', 'RArm_Finger22', 'Butt_CBP_L_01', 'LArm_Finger32', 'RArm_Finger12', 'AnimObjectR1', 'AnimObjectR2', 'LLeg_Calf', 'RArm_UpperArm', 'Breast_CBP_R_03', 'LArm_Collarbone_skin', 'RLeg_Calf_skin', 'Camera Control', 'LArm_Finger41', 'COM', 'RArm_Hand', 'RArm_Finger43', 'CharacterBumper', 'RArm_UpperTwist2_skin', 'RArm_Finger42', 'Thigh_CBP_L_F_01', 'LButtFat_skin', 'LArm_Finger22', 'RLeg_Calf_Low_skin', 'Breast_R_00', 'Thigh_CBP_R_F_01', 'Pelvis', 'Tail_CBP_05', 'LArm_Finger43', 'Anus_03', 'LArm_UpperFat_skin', 'LLeg_Thigh_skin', 'Pelvis_skin', 'Breast_CBP_R_02', 'Spine1_skin', 'Penis_03', 'PipboyBone', 'AnimObjectL3', 'LArm_Finger21', 'RArm_ForeArm2', 'L_RibHelper', 'Breast_CBP_R_00', 'Thigh_CBP_L_B_02', 'RArm_UpperTwist1_skin', 'Head_skin', 'Neck_skin', 'Penis_Balls_02', 'LArm_UpperTwist1', 'Penis_CBP_01', 'Belly_skin', 'RArm_Finger13', 'Tongue_02', 'Penis_00', 'RArm_Collarbone_skin', 'RButtFat_skin', 'Vagina_CBP_L_01', 'Pelvis_Rear_skin', 'Breast_L_00', 'Face_skin', 'Tail_CBP_06', 'Anus_00', 'Neck', 'LArm_UpperTwist2', 'RArm_ForeArm3', 'Breast_CBP_L_04_OFFSET', 'Chest_Upper_skin', 'RArm_Finger53', 'LArm_Collarbone', 'Vagina_L_02', 'LArm_Finger51', 'RArm_Finger33', 'LArm_ForeArm3_skin', 'LArm_Finger31', 'AnimObjectA', 'Tongue_01', 'RLeg_Toe1', 'RArm_Finger41', 'RArm_ForeArm1_skin', 'RArm_Finger51', 'LArm_Finger11', 'Breast_CBP_L_01', 'Vagina_L_01', 'RArm_Finger11', 'LLeg_Calf_skin', 'COM_Override', 'CamTargetParent', 'AnimObjectB', 'LArm_UpperArm_skin', 'RArm_Collarbone', 'LLeg_Toe1', 'LArm_Finger52', 'Belly_02', 'Penis_Balls_CBP_01', 'LArm_Finger23', 'RArm_UpperTwist2', 'Neck1_skin', 'Breast_CBP_R_01', 'LArm_Finger13', 'Thigh_CBP_R_B_01', 'Tail_CBP_02', 'AnimObjectL1', 'LArm_ForeArm1_skin', 'LArm_ForeArm3', 'RArm_Finger21', 'Breast_L_02', 'AnimObjectR3', 'Spine2_skin', 'Tongue_04', 'Breast_L_01', 'WEAPON', 'Vagina_00', 'SPINE1', 'Breast_CBP_L_00', 'RArm_UpperFat_skin', 'RArm_UpperArm_skin', 'RLeg_Thigh_Fat_skin', 'HEAD', 'RArm_Finger31', 'LLeg_Calf_Low_skin', 'Chest', 'Vagina_CBP_L_02', 'Camera', 'skeleton.nif', 'Belly_01', 'Vagina_CBP_R_01', 'Tail_CBP_07', 'RLeg_Foot', 'LLeg_Thigh', 'LArm_Finger53', 'SPINE2', 'RArm_UpperTwist1', 'Penis_02', 'RArm_Finger23', 'Thigh_CBP_R_B_02', 'Tail_CBP_01', 'Butt_R_01', 'UpperBelly_skin', 'Penis_Balls_01', 'LLeg_Foot', 'LLeg_Thigh_Fat_skin', 'Thigh_CBP_L_F_02', 'AnimObjectL2', 'LArm_ShoulderFat_skin', 'Breast_R_01', 'RArm_ForeArm1', 'LArm_UpperTwist2_skin'}

 

I dont have 3ds to export as .dae or fbx from it but I suspect we might fall into the same issue. What I was doing before several post ago, the 3 steps here was basing the .fbx creation on skeleton.hkx in order to bring in vanilla anims, which is what we need to get the full skel, but there's no 32bit version of the Zex skeleton.hkx, nor have I figured out a way to convert it to 32bit, it hard crashes to desktop trying to open it with Havok content tools. All the CLI things ive tried likewise do not work on it either. There must be a way its only xml after all.

Edited May 11, 2022 by infiniteone

[infiniteone]

I cant seem to open any of the skeleton.hkx files in Havok content tools, even the vanilla one.

I thought maybe I had the wrong version, Ive been using hk_2014.1.1 64bit as ive seen suggested,

but I noticed the hkx files say hk_2014.1.0 64bit so I switched to that, still same thing.

 

Zex skeleton.hkx crashes havok tools instantly, If I convert it to XML first then Havok content tools import throws error Unable to detect format from stream

The vanilla skeleton.hkx throws error: Binary Packfile has the wrong endiannes or pointer size. Predicates won't be read. and wont load, nothing happens.

Exact same errors when trying to use the havok filtermanager or CLI tool.

 

Somethings missing or FUBAR, so frustrating lol.

 

 

[dagobaking]

18 hours ago, Vader666 said:

 

By hierachy.

The _skin bones are linked to animateable bones which means they move respectively to their parent.

Since meshes are skinned to the _skin bones they do take part in the final result.

Because of that you shouldn't delete these, or any "extra" bones, in your scene file, that would break the skinning of your meshes you need to see what you're doing.

Since bones not apparent in the skeleton.hkx / rigmap.txt won't get recognised by havok in any way, just leave them be.

Typically those bones get hidden in the scene file to reduce visual clutter and won't be constrained to the control rig.

 

 

 

Ok. Makes sense.

 

I thought that was a possibility. But, wasn't sure because the deforming didn't look off when I tried it with andrelo's example armature which has only the hkx bones. [Actually, I just looked again and his example does have those skin bones too after all.]

 

8 hours ago, infiniteone said:

 

  Hide contents

{'Penis_04', 'Chest_Rear_Skin', 'Tail_CBP_00', 'LArm_Hand', 'Tail_CBP_04', 'LArm_ForeArm2_skin', 'LArm_Finger12', 'Spine2_Rear_skin', 'Anus_02', 'Breast_CBP_L_02', 'LArm_UpperTwist1_skin', 'RArm_ShoulderFat_skin', 'Penis_05', 'RArm_Finger52', 'RArm_ForeArm3_skin', 'Penis_01', 'RLeg_Thigh_Low_skin', 'Breast_CBP_L_03', 'Penis_CBP_02', 'Tongue_00', 'RLeg_Calf', 'Neck_Low_skin', 'LArm_UpperArm', 'Penis_CBP_04', 'Thigh_CBP_R_F_02', 'Tail_CBP_03', 'Penis_Balls_CBP_02', 'RArm_Finger32', 'LArm_Finger33', 'Breast_CBP_L_03_OFFSET', 'Butt_L_01', 'RArm_ForeArm2_skin', 'Penis_CBP_00', 'CamTarget', 'Breast_CBP_R_04', 'Thigh_CBP_L_B_01', 'LBreast_skin', 'WeaponLeft', 'Penis_CBP_05', 'RBreast_skin', 'Anus_01', 'Chest_skin', 'Breast_CBP_L_04', 'LArm_ForeArm1', 'LArm_Finger42', 'Vagina_CBP_00', 'RLeg_Thigh', 'Vagina_R_01', 'Butt_CBP_R_01', 'LArm_ForeArm2', 'Spine1_Rear_skin', 'Penis_CBP_03', 'LLeg_Thigh_Low_skin', 'R_RibHelper', 'Anus_04', 'Breast_R_02', 'RLeg_Thigh_skin', 'Vagina_R_02', 'Root', 'Tongue_03', 'Vagina_CBP_R_02', 'RArm_Finger22', 'Butt_CBP_L_01', 'LArm_Finger32', 'RArm_Finger12', 'AnimObjectR1', 'AnimObjectR2', 'LLeg_Calf', 'RArm_UpperArm', 'Breast_CBP_R_03', 'LArm_Collarbone_skin', 'RLeg_Calf_skin', 'Camera Control', 'LArm_Finger41', 'COM', 'RArm_Hand', 'RArm_Finger43', 'CharacterBumper', 'RArm_UpperTwist2_skin', 'RArm_Finger42', 'Thigh_CBP_L_F_01', 'LButtFat_skin', 'LArm_Finger22', 'RLeg_Calf_Low_skin', 'Breast_R_00', 'Thigh_CBP_R_F_01', 'Pelvis', 'Tail_CBP_05', 'LArm_Finger43', 'Anus_03', 'LArm_UpperFat_skin', 'LLeg_Thigh_skin', 'Pelvis_skin', 'Breast_CBP_R_02', 'Spine1_skin', 'Penis_03', 'PipboyBone', 'AnimObjectL3', 'LArm_Finger21', 'RArm_ForeArm2', 'L_RibHelper', 'Breast_CBP_R_00', 'Thigh_CBP_L_B_02', 'RArm_UpperTwist1_skin', 'Head_skin', 'Neck_skin', 'Penis_Balls_02', 'LArm_UpperTwist1', 'Penis_CBP_01', 'Belly_skin', 'RArm_Finger13', 'Tongue_02', 'Penis_00', 'RArm_Collarbone_skin', 'RButtFat_skin', 'Vagina_CBP_L_01', 'Pelvis_Rear_skin', 'Breast_L_00', 'Face_skin', 'Tail_CBP_06', 'Anus_00', 'Neck', 'LArm_UpperTwist2', 'RArm_ForeArm3', 'Breast_CBP_L_04_OFFSET', 'Chest_Upper_skin', 'RArm_Finger53', 'LArm_Collarbone', 'Vagina_L_02', 'LArm_Finger51', 'RArm_Finger33', 'LArm_ForeArm3_skin', 'LArm_Finger31', 'AnimObjectA', 'Tongue_01', 'RLeg_Toe1', 'RArm_Finger41', 'RArm_ForeArm1_skin', 'RArm_Finger51', 'LArm_Finger11', 'Breast_CBP_L_01', 'Vagina_L_01', 'RArm_Finger11', 'LLeg_Calf_skin', 'COM_Override', 'CamTargetParent', 'AnimObjectB', 'LArm_UpperArm_skin', 'RArm_Collarbone', 'LLeg_Toe1', 'LArm_Finger52', 'Belly_02', 'Penis_Balls_CBP_01', 'LArm_Finger23', 'RArm_UpperTwist2', 'Neck1_skin', 'Breast_CBP_R_01', 'LArm_Finger13', 'Thigh_CBP_R_B_01', 'Tail_CBP_02', 'AnimObjectL1', 'LArm_ForeArm1_skin', 'LArm_ForeArm3', 'RArm_Finger21', 'Breast_L_02', 'AnimObjectR3', 'Spine2_skin', 'Tongue_04', 'Breast_L_01', 'WEAPON', 'Vagina_00', 'SPINE1', 'Breast_CBP_L_00', 'RArm_UpperFat_skin', 'RArm_UpperArm_skin', 'RLeg_Thigh_Fat_skin', 'HEAD', 'RArm_Finger31', 'LLeg_Calf_Low_skin', 'Chest', 'Vagina_CBP_L_02', 'Camera', 'skeleton.nif', 'Belly_01', 'Vagina_CBP_R_01', 'Tail_CBP_07', 'RLeg_Foot', 'LLeg_Thigh', 'LArm_Finger53', 'SPINE2', 'RArm_UpperTwist1', 'Penis_02', 'RArm_Finger23', 'Thigh_CBP_R_B_02', 'Tail_CBP_01', 'Butt_R_01', 'UpperBelly_skin', 'Penis_Balls_01', 'LLeg_Foot', 'LLeg_Thigh_Fat_skin', 'Thigh_CBP_L_F_02', 'AnimObjectL2', 'LArm_ShoulderFat_skin', 'Breast_R_01', 'RArm_ForeArm1', 'LArm_UpperTwist2_skin'}

 

These are missing:

• WeaponBolt
• WeaponExtra1
• WeaponExtra2
• WeaponExtra3
• WeaponMagazine
• WeaponMagazineChild1
• WeaponMagazineChild2
• WeaponMagazineChild3
• WeaponMagazineChild4
• WeaponMagazineChild5
• WeaponOptics1
• WeaponOptics2
• WeaponTrigger
• WeaponIKTargetL
• WeaponIKTargetR
• WeaponIKTargetLMirror
• WeaponIKTargetRMirror

 

8 hours ago, infiniteone said:

All the CLI things ive tried likewise do not work on it either. There must be a way its only xml after all.

 

Well. Now that we have established that all bones from both hkx and nif are needed the path is clear:

1. Load andrelo's example file which contains all hkx bones.
2. Import the zex skeleton with pynifly.
3. Copy the missing bones into the imported zex skeleton.
4. That should be the completed armature needed.
5. Then work on next steps (cleanup and adding control rigging).

Edited May 12, 2022 by dagobaking

[dagobaking]

Testing the theory out...

 

It looks like pynifly even merges the zex skeleton with the example.blend armature on import.

 

The trouble is that the latest zex skeleton includes a "COM_OVERRIDE" node that contains basically a complete copy of the regular skeleton. I guess this has something to do with CBP?

 

Anyway, you have to remove COM_OVERRIDE in nifskope first. Then import over example.blend. I think that is what is needed. But, please double-check and try it out. I'm not able to test in animation or anything tonight.

 

[EDIT: Well. I think that skeleton contains the correct bones by name. But, something is wrong because when you parent a mesh to this armature it doesn't cause deforming at all...?]

Edited May 12, 2022 by dagobaking

[infiniteone]

39 minutes ago, dagobaking said:

Well. Now that we have established that all bones from both hkx and nif are needed the path is clear:

1. Load andrelo's example file which contains all hkx bones.
2. Import the zex skeleton with pynifly.
3. Copy the missing bones into the imported zex skeleton.
4. That should be the completed armature needed.
5. Then work on next steps (cleanup and adding control rigging).

Fabulous, getting much closer!  I will try your steps, sounds like it should work.

 

On the other stuff, im still half stuck with the skeleton.hkx issue, for vanilla anims its sorted & works getting them in blender since we have 32bit vanilla skeleton.hkx included with havocktofbx, but AAF anims wont since Zex skeleton.hkx is 64bit, still no luck in converting it. ?

 

I was hoping to study existing aaf animations to see how its done, and maybe mix & repurpose etc with some of them as practice.  I guess its not a big deal for that really, early on I can just make some simple idles to test & learn, then work my way into something more exciting.

 

Note: I also tested on blender 2.9 using the updated hkx importer from github, to test I converted a vanilla and a zex anim to 32 bit but it fails importing silently, nothing is imported no errors. if I leave them 64 bit it loads in a rig, but not the keyframes and throws error related to 64bit not compatible.
After digging thru its code I found its using https://github.com/alexsylex/hkdump to create the skeleton.bin file, I tried compiling with vs studio, but there's missing sources I cant find, and its based on an older havok for skyrim so there'd need to be more refactoring perhaps than only the skeleton.bin.  Sucks! because being able to import/export fp4 .hkx directly in blender 2.8+ would be super sweet!  Maybe someone smarter then I will tinker with it.

[infiniteone]

5 hours ago, dagobaking said:

[EDIT: Well. I think that skeleton contains the correct bones by name. But, something is wrong because when you parent a mesh to this armature it doesn't cause deforming at all...?]

I will try the steps now too and see.

Just a thought did you have the rig selected in the outliner when you imported the body mesh? It should pair automatically since the bones match.

 

Edit: Found those bones you mentioned, they're all in the same spot in the right hand. One thing im unsure of up front, did you have to scale those? The example rig is like the size of a small mouse, the Zex skeleton is like 130 meters tall. I guess I can try to eyeball it, but itd be nice if we knew the scale difference.  I will try a few things and see what happens.

 

Edit: Yea had to scale them, easy since it scaled from root right into position in hand, rotating was easy once I figured out you cant rotate on along the normal y axis in edit mode, have to be in pose mode.

 

When I imported body mesh, I had rig selected in the outliner, also I didnt delete COM_Override bone, and it worked, the included anim that came with  example animated. Perhaps your issue was removing the COM_Override? There is one oddity though, its reversed. 

 

See below, example rig on left, new one based on zex with added weapon bones on right.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by infiniteone

[infiniteone]

It was the order that mattered, and why the anim was FUBAR, I tested other vanilla anims too & had same issue.

 

Last time I imported both rigs into the file then copied the missing bones over to zex, borked.  What worked was using the example file, selecting the armature in the outliner window, then importing the zex nif to merge them on import like you mentioned above, I didnt delete COM_Override bone though, doing it that way puts everything correct & anims worked.

 

 

[dagobaking]

21 hours ago, infiniteone said:

On the other stuff, im still half stuck with the skeleton.hkx issue, for vanilla anims its sorted & works getting them in blender since we have 32bit vanilla skeleton.hkx included with havocktofbx, but AAF anims wont since Zex skeleton.hkx is 64bit, still no luck in converting it. ?

 

In most cases you should be able to get the source for those anims from the authors.

 

21 hours ago, infiniteone said:

I will try the steps now too and see.

Just a thought did you have the rig selected in the outliner when you imported the body mesh? It should pair automatically since the bones match.

 

I'm not sure if I had the rig selected or not. I think it pairs even without that selection.

 

From your video, it looks like you are using an old version of Zex (the newest one doesnt have a tail). That may make a difference as I think the newest one has a bunch of CBT related changes.

 

When I import that one unchanged it puts those COM_Override bones into the regular COM hierarchy. So, everything is kind of scrambled up.

 

21 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Edit: Yea had to scale them, easy since it scaled from root right into position in hand, rotating was easy once I figured out you cant rotate on along the normal y axis in edit mode, have to be in pose mode.

 

I agree about scaling. I would prefer a workflow that doesn't involve any scaling just in case it ends up being off. And I did also see that scale issue you mention. Only in some tests I did importing in certain orders.

 

18 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Last time I imported both rigs into the file then copied the missing bones over to zex, borked.  What worked was using the example file, selecting the armature in the outliner window, then importing the zex nif to merge them on import like you mentioned above, I didnt delete COM_Override bone though, doing it that way puts everything correct & anims worked.

 

After you did this did you test loading a body mesh and setting the skeleton to parent? (To see if deforming worked.) That is where I got stuck. For some reason, the combined skeleton would not affect the mesh at all...

[dagobaking]

The problem I ran into has something to do with the Armature in example.blend. Maybe @Bad Dog knows something about it?

 

The good thing about it is that it has the bone names and hierarchy that we need (minus the custom added zex bones). But, for some reason it doesn't work right when you make it the parent of a body mesh.

 

Alternatively, we can import the zex skeleton with pynifly, parent a body mesh to it and it works correctly. However, that skeleton doesn't have all of the bones needed to publish hkx.

 

Pretty frustrated at this point. Not sure how much more tinkering I'm up to doing on it.

[infiniteone]

9 hours ago, dagobaking said:

From your video, it looks like you are using an old version of Zex (the newest one doesnt have a tail). That may make a difference as I think the newest one has a bunch of CBT related changes.

Im using version 5, as linked from the Atomic Muscle guides here & on vector plexus guide too, he calls it Zaz but its Zex when you go to the link. Ive only seen older versions elsewhere, is there newer than version 5?

 

9 hours ago, dagobaking said:

When I import that one unchanged it puts those COM_Override bones into the regular COM hierarchy. So, everything is kind of scrambled up.

I just looked and yea I get exactly that too, I didnt notice before thanks for pointing that out, I suppose thats easy enough to fix after the fact, but its odd its happening at all.

 

9 hours ago, dagobaking said:

After you did this did you test loading a body mesh and setting the skeleton to parent? (To see if deforming worked.) That is where I got stuck. For some reason, the combined skeleton would not affect the mesh at all...

Yeah, there was a slight thin gap in the neck, I suspect because my scale up of the rig was not exactly precise. I did the body mesh same as importing the Zex rig, have existing rig I'd like to connect to selected in outliner, then import body, head, hand nifs so it auto rigs to it, then I merged the meshes together, and the animations worked fine.
Ive not fixed the com_override bones yet, but still that example anim worked with mesh rigged on new rig we made here.

 

 

[infiniteone]

4 hours ago, dagobaking said:

The problem I ran into has something to do with the Armature in example.blend. Maybe @Bad Dog knows something about it?

 

The good thing about it is that it has the bone names and hierarchy that we need (minus the custom added zex bones). But, for some reason it doesn't work right when you make it the parent of a body mesh.

Alternatively, we can import the zex skeleton with pynifly, parent a body mesh to it and it works correctly. However, that skeleton doesn't have all of the bones needed to publish hkx.

Pretty frustrated at this point. Not sure how much more tinkering I'm up to doing on it.

Yeah lol I feel that too, its frustrating, I take breaks then return, but keep returning because im persistent if anything, & I enjoy the challenge & distraction lol.

 

I suppose there's always using some ancient 3ds but I try to avoid that app, baked in incompatibilities. & arbitrarily short lifespan are reasons enough for me to avoid proprietary software when possible, you cant even legally obtain the version of 3ds you need for skyrim anymore lol... Same for Fo4?  Conversely blender has lasting value, shit, we could even fork our own branch of it with specific modifications, I know thats way overboard, & not needed, but its legal & possible just the same.

 

Maybe there was some other reason your mesh wouldnt rig & animate proper, since you can see in my recent vid there I was able to do so, but I am using version 5 of Zex as linked in the Atomic Muscle guide, that'd be the only difference between each of us I can think of.  Are you using the Zex version as linked from whatever body you tried to rig that had anim issues?

 

Edit: The Atomic Muscle Guide here on LL, there's also one on Vector Plexus site which is the same.  The link to Zex is in the required files section, its a dropbox link.

 

Edit: not to add to the frustration, but, even though andrelo's example file anim worked in my vid above, bringing in a vanilla anim on there like WPNUnequip, with the fbx workflow, looked a bit of a mess when animating, definitely off.

Edited May 13, 2022 by infiniteone

[infiniteone]

Ok well it appears to me the issue may be with the example.blend from fbx importer, when I bring in the vanilla animation on to it (without adding teh Zex bones) produced from the fbx workflow I get the same problem of animations messy.  Perhaps the issue is needing the ik and controls to match vanilla setup?

Either that, or I suppose my vanilla animation I brought in thru the fbx workflow could be the problem, or how im importing it, could need a different setting, I will test some more iterations & see if I can find any more clues.

 

Edit: I suppose it makes sense that importing zex puts the com_override into com, the bones all have the same name like you said its a copy. Im unsure if that is the cause of our issues but I will test some things & tinker more to see.

 

Also I found the Zex Discord server, I will read thru posts there for a while and maybe ask some questions if I cant find any useful infos, Ill post back if I learn anything new.

 

EDIT: Got some great leads from Kars(God) over on Skyrim Guild discord server I will try tonight, we're almost there!

Edited May 14, 2022 by infiniteone

[infiniteone]

I've made a new bone list by stripping down the Zex version5(newest one?) skeleton.hkx to just the bones, to get the right order, then assured names match to the nif for capitalization, it is case sensitive in that direction, I heard, will add the new bones to rig today.

Few things I noticed.

• There is no com_override, nor its child bones in the hkx, I guess that means we dont need them in our animating rig? Is that only for the nif? Also none of the CBP bones are in there, I suppose same with that? Im ignoring both for now since there's no info anywhere & seems logical.
• I am unsure about the added ragdoll bones too.
• To your point you made about the tail, well it seems those are CBP related, and likewise they're not in the skeleton.hkx, only the nif like all the other CBP bones.

Im going to base off blender rig framework from here earlier and posted on nexus & put in the additional zex bones, starting there is the best since its got some ik and & bunch of tweaks going nicely already.  I will post back after some more progress.

 

Edit: On second thought, maybe we need the Cbp bones? I dunno...

 

Edit: Not sure why I forgot the great blend file EngineGaming shared, oof... 
When importing Zex & merging it we get all the bones, tons of bones... including those missing weapon ones.

IDK if we need ALL those listed in the bonelist.txt, or only the ones that are in skeleton.hkx. Looking at his vanilla rig & matching .txt file he does not add all his extras, only the 95 base skeleton.hkx bones, so Im guessing here, and just adding the additional ones represented in the zex skeleton.hkx too, until I find out more.

Heres the boneslist for Zex I mentioned I made above. Zex-skeleton.txt

Edited May 15, 2022 by infiniteone

[EngineGaming]

3 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Edit: Not sure why I forgot the great blend file EngineGaming shared, oof... 

I mentioned the fact that i put it public as my part of fixing the rig, didnt i? Earlier here.

Edited May 15, 2022 by EngineGaming

[EngineGaming]

Btw @infiniteone, If u are taking my rig to included zex bones, ive been thinking that u gonna send it to me (or here) but putting it on nexus which is not nsfw marked but zex does. It probably wont make sense over a basic human considering nsfw... unless it is and if ill put it w credits then i gotta mark it nsfw on Nexus. Nor do i create a file page on LL with ur part as Modder's resources, it has no logical bcs we both got a place for ideas and creativities already in this thread. Just saying.

So u can put it here w my credits if u are going to get my part from Nexus. Or give me and put it but making nsfw, which it will be a good idea for having several rigs collected as list in a single 'mod' page.

Although i stopped working the fix for my mod pack, i need a break from modding once its released. I can still check here and Discord someday. But wont last forever over a break as its temporary. So i gotta work at least my mod as final steps to release it right away and soon ill work with what was not completed since its wip so far.

Thanks Infinite, and everyone for involving and sharing ideas. Ill be back after a temporary break and get into modding back.

Edited May 15, 2022 by EngineGaming

[dagobaking]

 

On 5/15/2022 at 2:33 AM, infiniteone said:

• I am unsure about the added ragdoll bones too.

 

Every bone gets filtered out of the hkx except for the ones listed in the bonelist txt. The only reason to leave any of those extra bones in is if/when they affect how the mesh looks during animating.

 

On 5/15/2022 at 2:33 AM, infiniteone said:

• To your point you made about the tail, well it seems those are CBP related, and likewise they're not in the skeleton.hkx, only the nif like all the other CBP bones.

 

I could certainly be doing something wrong. But, it looks like the tail bones dont even import via pynifly for me...

 

On 5/15/2022 at 2:33 AM, infiniteone said:

IDK if we need ALL those listed in the bonelist.txt, or only the ones that are in skeleton.hkx. Looking at his vanilla rig & matching .txt file he does not add all his extras, only the 95 base skeleton.hkx bones, so Im guessing here, and just adding the additional ones represented in the zex skeleton.hkx too, until I find out more.

 

There is a rig made for animating zex skeleton. It's just for 3DSMax. So, you can get a confirmed correct bonelist txt from that download (in the zex discord).

[infiniteone]

19 hours ago, EngineGaming said:

I mentioned the fact that i put it public as my part of fixing the rig, didnt i? Earlier here.

Yeah I remember too, the funny part was I already had it downloaded, endorsed it on nexus and played with it some, things have been crazy around here, so that slipped my mind.

 

18 hours ago, EngineGaming said:

So u can put it here w my credits if u are going to get my part from Nexus. Or give me and put it but making nsfw, which it will be a good idea for having several rigs collected as list in a single 'mod' page.

Im good with whatever on sharing our collective contributions we come up with, I think I remember reading zex people didnt want it on nexus, i think notice is on the old zex page on nexus, says come to LL for it if I remember correctly. 

 

Take your time and enjoy your break, those are always so necessary to keep good creative energy up,

I also have some info help coming from skyrim guild in regards to the rig creation, adding controller widgets, and more IK etc, I wiil keep tinkering and learning, and will share here with everyone. Like I said before, I dont think we can put zex on nexus, but maybe the resulting animations we create are fine there? Im in their discord now, so i will be sure ask, so we do right by their desire on how & where to share etc.

 

1 hour ago, dagobaking said:

I could certainly be doing something wrong. But, it looks like the tail bones dont even import via pynifly for me...

Im not sure, that is odd, are you using version 5 of Zex or is there a newer one? I did go looking, but that was the highest number I could find, and was the one recommended in the atomic muscle guides, I checked and the fusion girl mod here on LL also links to that version 5. Im using blender 3.1.2 if that makes any difference on the pynifly import, seemed like thats worked on all my versions of blender back to 2.8. Also on import I uncheck both options in the pynify import screen, not sure if thats it, but I found issues when using either of those active on import.

 

1 hour ago, dagobaking said:

Every bone gets filtered out of the hkx except for the ones listed in the bonelist txt. The only reason to leave any of those extra bones in is if/when they affect how the mesh looks during animating.

Yeah thats what Kars was saying in skyrim guild, so delete those ragdoll bones from the txt file I posted above if you want to use that list.

 

1 hour ago, dagobaking said:

There is a rig made for animating zex skeleton. It's just for 3DSMax. So, you can get a confirmed correct bonelist txt from that download (in the zex discord).

I'll take a look at that example to see if mine is matching proper, I think we're good to go, but its always good to verify when there's extra ways to do so.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kars was saying we're good with importing the zex skeleton.nif, & utilizing the new boneslist based on the hkx, then the rest of the fbx importer workflow should be good to go. Of course we still have a bunch of IK & control widgets etc to add & make animating more intuitive, but we're very close. I will study the skyrim rig for constraints/ik/controllers/etc built at skyrim guild, and ask questions there where we get lost in the process, mike over theres been knocking out some great rig stuff lately, and kars is brilliant too.

 

We should be able to have an amazing setup soonish™ ...The fbx workflow simplifies what we need blender to do nicely, no need for (nonexistent in fo4)hkxcmd, converting to .kf or much of the other stuff skyrim required for so long. That said, we can always make some blender scripts to run on things if we find need of them.

 

Things are a bit crazy around here with family lately but im trying to keep making time for modding, got a handful of things going for FO4 & skyrim too lol, its fun and a great distraction, plus useful learning tool.  Im almost happy that Starfield got delayed for a year, one it will come more refined, but also, I will be more knowledgeable by then to make fun stuff.

 

Edited May 16, 2022 by infiniteone

[EngineGaming]

4 minutes ago, infiniteone said:

Yeah I remember too, the funny part was I already had it downloaded, endorsed it on nexus and played with it some, things have been crazy around here, so that slipped my mind.

 

Im good with whatever on sharing our collective contributions we come up with, I think I remember reading zex people didnt want it on nexus, i think notice is on the old zex page on nexus, says come to LL for it if I remember correctly. 

 

Take your time and enjoy your break, those are always so necessary to keep good creative energy up,

I also have some info help coming from skyrim guild in regards to the rig creation, adding controller widgets, and more IK etc, I wiil keep tinkering and learning, and will share here with everyone. Like I said before, I dont think we can put zex on nexus, but maybe the resulting animations we create are fine there? Im in their discord now, so i will be sure ask, so we do right by their desire on how & where to share etc.

 

Im not sure, that is odd, are you using version 5 of Zex or is there a newer one? I did go looking, but that was the highest number I could find, and was the one recommended in the atomic muscle guides, I checked and the fusion girl mod here on LL also links to that version 5. Im using blender 3.1.2 if that makes any difference on the pynifly import, seemed like thats worked on all my versions of blender back to 2.8.

 

Yeah thats what Kars was saying in skyrim guild, so delete those ragdoll bones from the txt file I posted above if you want to use that list..

 

I'll take a look at that example to see if mine is matching proper, I think we're good to go, but its always good to verify when there's extra ways to do so.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kars was saying we're good with importing the zex skeleton.nif, & utilizing the new boneslist based on the hkx, then the rest of the fbx importer workflow should be good to go. Of course we still have a bunch of IK & control widgets etc to add & make animating more intuitive, but we're very close. I will study the skyrim rig for constraints/ik/controllers/etc built at skyrim guild, and ask questions there where we get lost in the process, mike over theres been knocking out some great rig stuff lately, and kars is brilliant too.

 

We should be able to have an amazing setup soonish™ ...The fbx workflow simplifies what we need blender to do nicely, no need for (nonexistent in fo4)hkxcmd, converting to .kf or much of the other stuff skyrim required for so long. That said, we can always make some blender scripts to run on things if we find need of them.

 

Things are a bit crazy around here with family lately but im trying to keep making time for modding, got a handful of things going for FO4 & skyrim too lol, its fun and a great distraction, plus useful learning tool.  Im almost happy that Starfield got delayed for a year, one it will come more refined, but also, I will be more knowledgeable by then to make fun stuff.

 

Thanks. Btw, i started caring less about Nexus, i thought it would be something since the new policy changed, but i dont see any effects, other than 'collections', so i dont really care. If i would have changed my mind (like it was planned to do before) i could have released on LL or somewhere. Other than that, i cant go lie everyone over my mod releases. Its up to me as everyone's. I get it, zex can be put on LL unless Nexus, no matter what place but should be promising.

And btw whats ur Discord name? I would have gotten u, tho.

[dagobaking]

17 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Im not sure, that is odd, are you using version 5 of Zex or is there a newer one?

 

No. That is the latest. It might have been user error on my part. Haven't had a chance to look at it again. Might have been parenting the wrong armature.

 

17 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Kars was saying we're good with importing the zex skeleton.nif, & utilizing the new boneslist based on the hkx, then the rest of the fbx importer workflow should be good to go. Of course we still have a bunch of IK & control widgets etc to add & make animating more intuitive, but we're very close. I will study the skyrim rig for constraints/ik/controllers/etc built at skyrim guild, and ask questions there where we get lost in the process, mike over theres been knocking out some great rig stuff lately, and kars is brilliant too.

 

We should be able to have an amazing setup soonish™ ...The fbx workflow simplifies what we need blender to do nicely, no need for (nonexistent in fo4)hkxcmd, converting to .kf or much of the other stuff skyrim required for so long. That said, we can always make some blender scripts to run on things if we find need of them.

 

Sounds good. I was following some of those youtube videos on making IK controllers and that is all pretty easy. But, there are so many cool bells and whistles that could be added in addition. For instance, a way to control the facial expressions in animation. pynifly allows importing the face tri which has sliders for all expressions. But, I dont think you can attach that to the skeleton. I think there is another process where you target the morphs on that mesh onto the main face mesh.

 

I also was hoping to figure out how to add a custom publish button to the rig that actually runs the havok tool process on your fbx and cleans up the extra files created all in one button push.

 

17 hours ago, infiniteone said:

Things are a bit crazy around here with family lately but im trying to keep making time for modding, got a handful of things going for FO4 & skyrim too lol, its fun and a great distraction, plus useful learning tool.  Im almost happy that Starfield got delayed for a year, one it will come more refined, but also, I will be more knowledgeable by then to make fun stuff.

 

Heh. You have more faith in Bethesda than I do. I'm pretty confident that Starfield production hadn't even meaningfully started when MS bought the company. Those people got a windfall when Skyrim came out and have been barely working at all ever since.

[EngineGaming]

I figured out on my Nexus page about annotations for blender. Never thought that the hkt file could be even be as xml to edit. It's familiar with what i did with 3ds max long time ago and with Hct i exported annotations xml files to check, that was one of my poses i picked, which i used AOS... But about hkt i thought its different and encrypted, as its used only for exporting animations... I know several notes i often used for AOS per frames (Anim Object Support). I will add those useful notes for AOS and weapons on Nexus someday.

Someone tested the first person animations as proof with blender and how to add annotation notes through xml editing. Their 10mm pistol is not parented with child weapon bones, but can be easily aligned and parented like 3ds. I can manage it soon. You can check out his posts below.

If we know annotations, we can do absolutely anything in blender. And ofc if theres a way for duo, trio... in a scene which you guys are working for. It seems complicated to rename every single bones, or ... still. Btw, fximporter should extract 4 hkt files (2 by 2 with amarture suffixes) if its duo, no need to be 2 fbx exported by selection by all in one fbx, and with hct should do the job. With those 2 would be useful with adding annotations. That's what ive been thinking, logically and it should work.

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/11364193-blender-rig-framework/?p=109492068

Edited May 20, 2022 by EngineGaming

[dagobaking]

On 5/20/2022 at 5:19 AM, EngineGaming said:

I figured out on my Nexus page about annotations for blender. Never thought that the hkt file could be even be as xml to edit. It's familiar with what i did with 3ds max long time ago and with Hct i exported annotations xml files to check, that was one of my poses i picked, which i used AOS... But about hkt i thought its different and encrypted, as its used only for exporting animations... I know several notes i often used for AOS per frames (Anim Object Support). I will add those useful notes for AOS and weapons on Nexus someday.

 

Yeah. It's good to know it's possible with manual edits. I was hoping for some kind of solution within Blender as timing it out manually could be tedious for sounds, etc.

 

On 5/20/2022 at 5:19 AM, EngineGaming said:

And ofc if theres a way for duo, trio... in a scene which you guys are working for. It seems complicated to rename every single bones, or ... still.

 

It shouldn't be too complicated. You can make the main rig once with the original names. Then link that to another .blender and over-ride the names with one batch rename command. Maybe add "_actor1" and so on to all bones. Then, link it in again and another batch rename to "_actor2".

[Ulfberto]

i confess i'm bit confused with the conversation ?
have you found a way to import zex anims to blender @infiniteone?

[dagobaking]

5 hours ago, Ulfberto said:

i confess i'm bit confused with the conversation ?

 

I think it's because there are multiple objectives people have at once: make an animation rig for zex, make an animation rig for vanilla, add annotations to animations via blender, make animation fbx from hkx files.

 

It all overlaps.

 

5 hours ago, Ulfberto said:

have you found a way to import zex anims to blender @infiniteone?

 

From here it sounded like there was a roadblock so far for zex animations but vanilla works: