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Using UniqueNPCs with BodyTalk, FusionGirl, AAF and OCBPC [updated 28.5.2021]


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Hey @Carradon , i'm very disappointed you are not having any success. I have done at least 100 installs of this setup on a dozen different machines now, including windows 8.1 systems and a crappy laptop, and have never seen this crystallisation effect. Just a couple of questions;
-Are you sure you are not starting the game before the procedure is complete?
-Are you starting your game with the F4SE loader?
-Have you tried without SimpleSurvivalConsole.esp?
-Have you carefully examined the install method in the above Post 49 and tried that?

 

Anyway, thanks for all your feedback, you have definitely helped sort out the BetterSettlers section of the install instructions.

 

 

Edited by dosfox
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UNfortunately this project is being put on hold for a short time. My beta-tester @Lordsaddller is now three weeks into his game using the setup from the OP. He recently started clothing NPCs with outfits using FOHHS and began finding those NPCs with vanishing body and/or clothing textures. I am only a couple of hours into this playthrough but installed FO4HHS and the outfits and found the same problem.

 

The differences between the OP installation and earlier ones is:
- Fusion Girl updated from 1.61 > 1.8
- UnofficialFallout4Patch updated from v.2.1.1a  >  v.2.1.3

I played the first playthrough with FG1.8 (and FO4HHS) for a couple of weeks with no problems. I did a reinstall to update to UFO4patch v.2.1.3 and to take the setup screenshots for this topic. That reinstall is the method in the OP. Maybe the UFO4patch is the problem, maybe it isn't. UFO4patch updates have not caused problems previously.

 

As with previous updates to the basic components of the procedure this will take a number of trial-and-error re-installs and some beta-testing. When i've got it working again i will repost an amended Install Method.

 

Sorry for posting the FG1.8 version prematurely, but i am not sure how long my health will permit me to keep posting and would like to get this method into the wider community while i still can. Too much work has gone into UniqueNPCs to let it get killed by updates. Nothing else matches it for NPC diversity.

 

If you don't mind using FG 1.61 you can use that and UFO4patch v.2.1.1a with the install method in Post 49 for a stable result. I have been using them for dozens of installs since FusionGirl updated to v.1.61.  (In fact the trouble updating my regular wardrobe to FG1.8 is giving me second thoughts about updating FG at all!?)

 

Edited by dosfox
version numbers
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It's ok, and I was glad to be of some small assistance... In a way, I'm rather glad that you id'd a problem with those new files.  Least I know it isn't "me".  Anyway, I get a fair built of variety as it is, and added a different mod to do the tat overlays.  Nothing for scars and what not, but it is what it is.  Unfortunately, other mods, especially AAF, require "latest" files, so back dating to older mod combos isn't always going to work.  On the otherhand, once someone has a stable set up they like, I do recommend turning off steams auto-update process and just running through that playthrough in that format from start to finish!  Thanks for taking all that time to work with me, even if it didn't quite pan out.  At least you have a culprit or two!

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Maybe I've found a solution, maybe.

I've had this "crytallization" bug with brow/black faces, too. I could manage to get rid of the face bug, somehow. I can't say what exactly solved it but I think Rusty Face Fix did it for me. (https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/31028)

 

With this body crytal stuff bug I've tried a few things you guys suggested, but nothing worked. I also resized and converted the .dds files from the naked raider males mod to match the original from the unique npc mod. Didn't help.

I went back to the original .ba2 files und only changed the main file (with archive2) and it worked. So now I had dongs and undies. I changed the textures1.ba2 file, after that I got that strange bug, not only on males, but also on females. So maybe I did something wrong during repackaging the textures, or there is something else. My suggestion is that somehow or something isn't able to get to the right path and the game can't use the .ba2 texture archive. I have no clue.

 

So I thought to myself, why not try to put the textures where they belong.. Data/textures/actors/charater/...

I used the ba2 files like you @dosfox said, but now I copied the unpacked files/folders inside the basehumanmale folder to the character folder, too.

I load the game and now only the females had that skin bug. I did it again with the basehumenfemale folder and it worked!

Did a few testings now and I'm confident it will work! I'm going to test more, just wanted to told you my little breakthrough

 

Maybe @Carradon this helps?

Btw I did this without a fresh start, install or save game. Some NPCs have no names, in AAF they do, but I think this is a different problem with bettersettlers and stuff? Next project.

Let me/us know if you found a solution

Edited by TomTheTaurus
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2 hours ago, TomTheTaurus said:

... I thought to myself, why not try to put the textures where they belong ...

 

Personally, i have never had that crystallization problem, but it's interesting that your solution addresses that. My concern would be having an extra 2.9GB+ of uncompressed textures in my data folder ... pretty sure that would have a serious performance hit.

 

2 hours ago, TomTheTaurus said:

... Btw I did this without a fresh start, install or save game. Some NPCs have no names, ...

 

After trying nearly every possible install order with this procedure, and after thousands of hours of testing, the only way i have found to make UniqueNPCs work properly with BetterSettlers, FG, BT and the other requirements is to by-pass the pre-war section of the game completely and install those mods before entering the Commonwealth.

 

 

On 6/20/2021 at 9:12 PM, dosfox said:

UNfortunately this project is being put on hold for a short time ...

 

Yay, got it working again. The problem was not with UFO4Patch v2.1.3 or FG1.8, the problem was totally with clothing. A hard learned lesson is that FG1.75 or "FG1.75+" BodySlides ARE NOT compatible with FG1.8 bodies. The new FG1.8 skeleton and physics system are NOT compatible with previous version clothing. Clothing must be built with FG1.8-specific BodySlides or mesh, physics, and other problems occur.

 

Now that is sorted the new Install Method will be posted soon. In the meantime the method shown in Post 49 can safely be used with UFO4Patch v2.1.3.

 

 

Edited by dosfox
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Personally, i have never had that crystallization problem, but it's interesting that your solution addresses that. My concern would be having an extra 2.9GB+ of uncompressed textures in my data folder ... pretty sure that would have a serious performance hit.

Is there a tool or a mod where I can check the performance ingame? Would like to test this, also want to know how my machine is doing with different mods. But i can't say that i'd noticed a heavy performance drop. Had a lot of uncompressed textures in skyrim se too, no issues there.

I will spawn some npcs and see how my game acts.

 

Quote

After trying nearly every possible install order with this procedure, and after thousands of hours of testing, the only way i have found to make UniqueNPCs work properly with BetterSettlers, FG, BT and the other requirements is to by-pass the pre-war section of the game completely and install those mods before entering the Commonwealth.

I used "start me up", but installed it after entering the commonwealth. What kind of problems did you have? I'm using the newest versions of this mods, BT3.15, FG1.8, btw.

 

Quote

hard learned lesson is that FG1.75 or "FG1.75+" BodySlides ARE NOT compatible with FG1.8 bodies. The new FG1.8 skeleton and physics system are NOT compatible with previous version clothing. Clothing must be built with FG1.8-specific BodySlides or mesh, physics, and other problems occur.

Interesting, I had some invisible bugs with a npc and my follower with a specific kind of armor, after I unequipped it, (saved, closed game and load) it was gone. I also noticed some outfits from different mods with missing sliders compared to the FG 1.8, and in outfit studio the reference body also had a different name. I don't know the previous versions. I will change the outfit sliders and stuff and see if this invisible bug is still occuring.

Did this problem came with equipped armor and clothes, or even with only clothes equipped?

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/45575 thats the armor I had the problem with. Will take a look at it later and try to make it work with FG1.8

 

 

Thank you @dosfox btw for all the work!

 

 

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28 minutes ago, TomTheTaurus said:

I used "start me up", but installed it after entering the commonwealth. What kind of problems did you have? ...

 

Installing after leaving the vault breaks the naming system, causes random and unexplained brown-face, and (subjectively) reduces diversity of spawned NPCs.

 

33 minutes ago, TomTheTaurus said:

... I had some invisible bugs with a npc and my follower with a specific kind of armor, ...

 

We got invisibility bug with VTAW5/7 and Dicky's Pinup. kharneth has published a FG1.8 Bodyslide for Dicky's, and recently published "Dicky Nude Shoes FG" which solved the vanishing body problem for that outfit. I haven't retried VTAW yet. The thing that really pisses me off is that Lazman's HighHeels and HighHeel_DressOutfits do not work with FG1.8 - the FG Bodyslides made by Teddy48 still use the old skeleton and OCBPC doesn't work with them.

 

I remember reading somewhere that FG1.75 bodyslides can be updated to v1.80 by manually editing the bodyslide files and adding the missing bones, but despite a lot of ggggling have not been able to find any further details on that.

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Installing after leaving the vault breaks the naming system, causes random and unexplained brown-face, and (subjectively) reduces diversity of spawned NPCs.

ah that's what I have, the naming thing. brown faces sometimes, have to investigate that, sometimes there is one.

So you suggest uninstalling everything and start from scratch? Do I have to uninstall the game und vortex too? In Vortex you can make profiles, haven't tried it out yet but it would prevent me from the whole deleting and installing stuff

Edit: I spawned 25+25 npcs, all names but good amount of face bugs

 

2 hours ago, dosfox said:

The thing that really pisses me off is that Lazman's HighHeels and HighHeel_DressOutfits do not work with FG1.8 - the FG Bodyslides made by Teddy48 still use the old skeleton and OCBPC doesn't work with them.

So you would need to change the bone weights in outfit studio to work with ocbpc? Isn't the skeleton a different thing?

Edited by TomTheTaurus
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22 minutes ago, TomTheTaurus said:

... you suggest uninstalling everything and start from scratch? Do I have to uninstall the game und vortex too? ...

 

I have only ever done this with Nexus Mod Manager. The thing to bear in mind is that CBBE and Fusion Girl are not meant to be installed together.  By overwriting CBBE files during the install you are basically breaking CBBE. Some mod managers (and LOOT) attempt to repair broken installations or keep essential files outside of the FO4/data structure. Performing this procedure on a new game before leaving the vault seems to convince NexusModManager that you are working with a valid configuration, and it will not attempt to change your setup behind your back. 

 

I have been tempted to try NMM's profile feature, but it is actually easier to clone my original steam install on a dedicated disk. My gaming PC is never connected to the net and i download all my mods and updates manually.

 

36 minutes ago, TomTheTaurus said:

So you would need to change the bone weights in outfit studio to work with ocbpc? Isn't the skeleton a different thing?

 

Apparently the difference between FG1.8 and previous versions is 2 extra bones in the breast (hence BBB).

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I'm doing a reinstall right now, cause i had some other little bugs from other mods that i wanted to get rid off. Also I wanted to try your step by step method to see if the crytalization stuff is happening to me this way too.

 

ah yeah the 3bbb. if you load up a fg1.8 as reference in outfit studio you can copy the bone weights to the outfit and the original reference without replacing the mesh (the high heels stuff has different feet)

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36 minutes ago, TomTheTaurus said:

I'm doing a reinstall right now ...

 

Assuming your install is successful, there is one issue that has appeared over my last few installs. When you first meet Garvey, MM, the Longs & Sturges, they will all have brown-face. You can "recycleactor" them to give them their UNPC skins, and it will not break their quests. After that you should have no more cases of brown-face. I think this is happening because they are so close to Sanctuary that their bodies are being generated before you even leave the vault. Haven't noticed the same problem with the Concord raiders though ...

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so after downloading 4h I reinstalled it and had the same problems like @Carradon, crystal and brown face all over the place.

I didn't delete vortex, but all mods and the game. Maybe some steps weren't exactly like you discribed, but I simply can't imagine that changing ba2 archives will require so many steps. I think the game somehow fucks up the paths to the textures.

 

Here is my guess: By simply changing the nif files, you also change thhe texture paths inside those files. From SSE modding I know that sometimes a mod takes the path from the nif, and sometimes from the patch you set in the CK. I will try something I did with modding self made weapons in SSE. Coping branches in nif file.

Since it worked a few seconds, I think the game is not only adding the textures from unpc, but also adds the textures added in the nif files and it doubles up the textures, which lead us to some funny crystal bugs

 

I have no more ideas left, only changing the texture archive doesn't solve the problem. Only changing the Main archive is fine, but with the texture thing it doesn't work. When I copy the textures in uncompressed folder, it works. Maybe this helps someone leading to the right path where the issue is hiding.

 

Edited by TomTheTaurus
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1 hour ago, TomTheTaurus said:

... Maybe some steps weren't exactly like you described ...

 

That's where your problem probably is then ... exactly what did you differently, apart from not reinstalling your mod manager?

Edited by dosfox
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.. exactly what did you differently, apart from not reinstalling your mod manager?

Can't really say, but if you did a lot of installation and testing and never had the crytal bug, I assume that there is a major difference somewhere. Right know this is a riddle for me.

I go back to my first solution and monitor the behavior, right now it seems to work.

 

Quote

The thing that really pisses me off is that Lazman's HighHeels and HighHeel_DressOutfits do not work with FG1.8

I've installed https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/20628 (HDT HighHeels) and it seems he used the CBBE mesh, but replaced the sliders and bone weights.

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After installation do you need to rebuild the bodies for every new outfit set you download? If its a CBBE set with bodyslide will it morph the body into something different? 

 

Are you having any issue using NMM for AAF? Thanks!

 

Edited by Icerunner
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20 hours ago, Icerunner said:

After installation do you need to rebuild the bodies for every new outfit set you download? If its a CBBE set with bodyslide will it morph the body into something different? 

 

Hey Icerunner, thanks for your interest,

 

We have been running into some bugs using the SD version of UniqueNPCs and the FG1.8 body.

- Unless every set of mod clothing in the game is precisely Bodyslid for FG1.8, vanishing body parts and brown-face begin to occur mid-game.

- The SD version does not match body-head textures as well as the HD version.

- There seems to be less diversity in faces and bodies.

 

These are problems we did not have with HD UNPCs and earlier versions of FG. Right now we are testing HD UNPCs with FG1.8, but it will probably be a few weeks before we post a stable install order for it. Early results are promising.

 

20 hours ago, Icerunner said:

Are you having any issue using NMM for AAF?

 

NMM is a superior mod manager. It has been in constant development and use for longer than any of the alternatives. I have never had any problems with AAF (or any other mod) using NMM.

 

Interestingly, it seems that this whole procedure may be only possible using NMM. Nobody using MO2 or Vortex has reported any success yet.

 

[Edit}

These are my personal rules for safe and reliable modding with NMM:
- Keep the gaming computer disconnected from the internet.
- Never let NMM access Nexus. Don't let NMM "update" any mods via the Nexus API.
- Download all mods manually with a browser and archive them to disk. Endorse the author while there.
- Install the saved mod files from disk with NMM.

- Use the included utilities to generate Mod Install Order and Load Order lists for every install.

 

NMM01.jpg.d169464866cb2b18795aad0f11632141.jpg

 

 

Edited by dosfox
nmm
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3 hours ago, dosfox said:

 

Hey Icerunner, thanks for your interest,

 

We have been running into some bugs using the SD version of UniqueNPCs and the FG1.8 body.

- Unless every set of mod clothing in the game is precisely Bodyslid for FG1.8, vanishing body parts and brown-face begin to occur mid-game.

- The SD version does not match body-head textures as well as the HD version.

- There seems to be less diversity in faces and bodies.

 

These are problems we did not have with HD UNPCs and earlier versions of FG. Right now we are testing HD UNPCs with FG1.8, but it will probably be a few weeks before we post a stable install order for it. Early results are promising.

 

 

NMM is a superior mod manager. It has been in constant development and use for longer than any of the alternatives. I have never had any problems with AAF (or any other mod) using NMM.

 

Interestingly, it seems that this whole procedure may be only possible using NMM. Nobody using MO2 or Vortex has reported any success yet.

 

[Edit}

These are my personal rules for safe and reliable modding with NMM:
- Keep the gaming computer disconnected from the internet.
- Never let NMM access Nexus. Don't let NMM "update" any mods via the Nexus API.
- Download all mods manually with a browser and archive them to disk. Endorse the author while there.
- Install the saved mod files from disk with NMM.

- Use the included utilities to generate Mod Install Order and Load Order lists for every install.

 

NMM01.jpg.d169464866cb2b18795aad0f11632141.jpg

 

 

NMM is really superior mod manager, nice rules, my usage of vortex just sucks, when I need just install mods, choose load order when it show conflicts, and play

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2 minutes ago, Indarello said:

NMM is really superior mod manager, nice rules, my usage of vortex just sucks, when I need just install mods, choose load order when it show conflicts, and play

 

Yes I've always preferred NMM because its much easier to figure out how things are installed. I've never gotten body gen to work on MO2 or Vortex. 

 

On 6/28/2021 at 2:17 PM, dosfox said:

 

That's where your problem probably is then ... exactly what did you differently, apart from not reinstalling your mod manager?

 

I'm having trouble with the install and getting the crystalized bodies. You install the quicksave right at the start of the install, but then you say not to access the quick until after UNPCs is installed. Do you download the game, start it, exit out, place that save, and then do the full install? I'm confused on how you start things, in the OP you say do the procedure right when you get there, but in the updated instructions its not there. 

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1 hour ago, Icerunner said:

... Do you download the game, start it, exit out, place that save, and then do the full install? ...

 

Yes.

 

- Only start the game to the main menu. Set your video options and Exit from the main menu.

- The next time you start the game you will be launching it with F4SE_loader.

- Install NMM.   [NMM requires a fallout4.ini, a fallout4prefs.ini, and a fallout4custom.ini to begin installing mods, so i either copy those files from my last installation or generate them fresh using BethINI.]

- Install F4SE manually.

- Install the mods required by this procedure with NMM.

- Launch the game with F4SE_loader.

- Load the Vault-111 Quickstart savefile. Don't do any saves while in the vault.

- Set your Name and SPECIALs and Exit the vault.

- Do your first hard save.

- Test by spawning some NPCs. (Very rarely i get 1 or 2  with brown-face. If i "recycleactor" them they revert to their UNPC skin immediately. This has only been happening recently with SD UNPCs and FG1.8., and only at this point in the game  ...  W.I.P! )

- Quit the game without saving.

- Install the rest of your mods, load your first hard save, and play the game.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Edited by dosfox
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I think I figured out why the crystalized skin is happening. I was running NMM as an administrator, since turning that off it has fixed some of the issues with the install. 

 

Could you use Female Outfit Replacer with this setup? I'm just confused on how to make that work. Does clothing all need to be fusion girl for it to work with the body gen system? Any time I batch build the outfits, it just uses the body that I built them with and not the bodies produced by UNPC.

 

Thanks for everything!

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[General]
bForceUpdateDiffuseOnly=0
iTextureUpgradeDistance1=7500 
iTextureUpgradeDistance0=7500
iTextureDegradeDistance1=7500
iTextureDegradeDistance0=7500

 

Adding that to my Custom ini removed the texture crystallization. You are saying you use Bethini and have no problem with crystallization, so maybe you have a setting in there that's preventing it. I also got rid of fusion girl and only selected the body for bodytalk and not the bodyslide files. It seems to be working fine now. You can also use bodygen to get a wider range of female bodies.

Edited by Icerunner
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1 hour ago, Icerunner said:

... I also got rid of fusion girl and only selected the body for bodytalk and not the bodyslide files ...

 

So does that work with AAF?

 

Quote

[General]
bForceUpdateDiffuseOnly=0
iTextureUpgradeDistance1=7500 
iTextureUpgradeDistance0=7500
iTextureDegradeDistance1=7500
iTextureDegradeDistance0=7500

 

Adding that to my Custom ini removed the texture crystallization ...

 

I do not have any of these settings in my ini files. These are the files i am using for the current install:

Fallout4.ini  Fallout4Custom.ini  Fallout4Prefs.ini

 

 

Edited by dosfox
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