[mod] Carnal Consequences

[sketch162000]

Question/suggestion about the Younger Rulers rule: does it add corresponding opinion buff/penalty for younger/older rulers with the vassals? It would be immersion breaking if I'm getting a penalty for not abdicating, but then if I do abdicate there's a vanilla succession crisis chance.

[Siudhne]

56 minutes ago, sketch162000 said:

Question/suggestion about the Younger Rulers rule: does it add corresponding opinion buff/penalty for younger/older rulers with the vassals? It would be immersion breaking if I'm getting a penalty for not abdicating, but then if I do abdicate there's a vanilla succession crisis chance.

When you abdicate, your primary heir gains a "rightful succession" opinion bonus with all vassals for 5 years.

However, if you delay abdication, you gain an opinion penalty with your vassals, which later translates as per vanilla rules to "opinion of predecessor" (2:1 I believe).

 

On a related note, I'm still surprised people are using the Younger Rulers option at all. ?

[dovahnurse]

1 hour ago, Siudhne said:

On a related note, I'm still surprised people are using the Younger Rulers option at all. ?

I guess I just don't wanna look at a wrinkly old as balls ruler for 20 in-game years, and then succeed him with another king who will rule for 40 years less than his predecessor.

Once your first ruler has had his way for 60 years it feels like a slap in the face to be inheriting a mostly crumbled mess of vassalages and have so little time to bring everyone back into the fold again before the next succession that has to do the same thing again.

The young ruler doesn't fix this terrible feedback loop, but at least I don't have to look at gray wrinkled drunkards as often. And younger rulers will have had less time to accrue a metric fuck-tonne of negative quirks. My ass I wanna play as a 55-year old possessed and ill king who everyone hates because he is a deviant and adulterer. Sure, they have lower stats over-all, but that's what breeding high-quality traits are for.

[Siudhne]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:47 PM, dovahnurse said:

The young ruler doesn't fix this terrible feedback loop, but at least I don't have to look at gray wrinkled drunkards as often.

Agreed, the loop is still "meh". You play for 20 or so years and then hop to the next. With vanilla, at least you have the occasional long-living ruler followed by periods of quick deaths to really "flesh out" a single character.

 

Come to think of it, I never used Ultimogeniture so far (or researched it even), but it might have the best vanilla succession loop in that regard. Instead of playing one ruler until he's 70, then their child from ~50-70 and then their child from ~50-70 etc. ad nauseam, your base age for the primary heir should be a couple decades lower.

 

Maybe what we really need is Ultimogeniture, but for Partition succession. Youngest gets the main title, second-youngest the next titles and so on. Or, since we are on loverslab, the primary heir isn't the youngest, but the one who is closest to 16/18. ?

 

Edit:

 

[dovahnurse]

2 hours ago, Siudhne said:

Agreed, the loop is still "meh". You play for 20 or so years and then hop to the next. With vanilla, at least you have the occasional long-living ruler followed by periods of quick deaths to really "flesh out" a single character.

 

Come to think of it, I never used Ultimogeniture so far (or researched it even), but it might have the best vanilla succession loop in that regard. Instead of playing one ruler until he's 70, then their child from ~50-70 and then their child from ~50-70 etc. ad nauseam, your base age for the primary heir should be a couple decades lower.

 

Maybe what we really need is Ultimogeniture, but for Partition succession. Youngest gets the main title, second-youngest the next titles and so on. Or, since we are on loverslab, the primary heir isn't the youngest, but the one who is closest to 16/18. ?

 

Edit:

 

*Oh that's good!

[whateverdontcare]

On 4/9/2021 at 4:59 AM, Siudhne said:

Agreed, the loop is still "meh". You play for 20 or so years and then hop to the next. With vanilla, at least you have the occasional long-living ruler followed by periods of quick deaths to really "flesh out" a single character.

 

Come to think of it, I never used Ultimogeniture so far (or researched it even), but it might have the best vanilla succession loop in that regard. Instead of playing one ruler until he's 70, then their child from ~50-70 and then their child from ~50-70 etc. ad nauseam, your base age for the primary heir should be a couple decades lower.

 

Maybe what we really need is Ultimogeniture, but for Partition succession. Youngest gets the main title, second-youngest the next titles and so on. Or, since we are on loverslab, the primary heir isn't the youngest, but the one who is closest to 16/18. ?

 

I always preferred ultimogeniture in CK2. In CK3 the perks provide more benefit to starting out old, so it's not necessarily good. There are also no regencies which means when the baby inherits you'll have to try to deal with 0/0/0/0/0 stats for a while, which is more likely to result in being over demesne limit and just kind of weak. So there's some problems. Still the ability to start young, stabilize the realm, then keep it stable for a long time as you tick up long reign bonuses is very nice.

[Astat95]

I noticed that whenever I try to use Carnal Consequences the events for laying with people do not cause pregnancy. Wether they are added by event chains from mods like Carnalitas Dominato or even with the edited Rakish event added by the Consequences nothing really happens. With the Carnal Consequences out of the mod list everything seems to work as intended. Any idea why that might be?

My playset in the screenshots:

 

[Siudhne]

Testing around a bit, you seem to be right. Thanks for finding this out, I'll release a patch soon.

 

It's quite a bummer still, it seems I can scrap the "fertility reduction that also works during sex scenes" part. Simply doesn't seem to be possible to use dynamic computations for pregnancy_chance even though it should be.

 

On a sidenote, you don't want to use Project Amatorius Rex. Its content is included in Intimate Encounters, and using both causes localization issues.

[Sweed]

Question, just skimmed through the seduction decision changes and found this.

 

		### CARNAL CONSEQUENCES START ###
		#...
		modifier = { # Target the player less aggressively
			trigger = {
				OR = {
					has_game_rule = cc_harsh_ai_more_seduction 
					has_game_rule = cc_harsh_ai_both 
				}
			}
			factor = 0.5
			scope:recipient = {
				OR = {
					is_ai = no
					any_consort = {
						is_ai = no
					}
				}
			}
		}
		### CARNAL CONSEQUENCES END ###

 

If I'm reading this correctly it does the exact opposite of what the description says. It only triggers the -50% chance of seduction against players if more seductions is enabled. I assume this is a typo, and is meant to be "NOR"?

[Siudhne]

20 hours ago, Sweed said:

Question, just skimmed through the seduction decision changes and found this.

 

		### CARNAL CONSEQUENCES START ###
		#...
		modifier = { # Target the player less aggressively
			trigger = {
				OR = {
					has_game_rule = cc_harsh_ai_more_seduction 
					has_game_rule = cc_harsh_ai_both 
				}
			}
			factor = 0.5
			scope:recipient = {
				OR = {
					is_ai = no
					any_consort = {
						is_ai = no
					}
				}
			}
		}
		### CARNAL CONSEQUENCES END ###

 

If I'm reading this correctly it does the exact opposite of what the description says. It only triggers the -50% chance of seduction against players if more seductions is enabled. I assume this is a typo, and is meant to be "NOR"?

Snap, you're right! Thanks!

[Averoze]

Hello. It seems you change carn recently raped trait. Cause i dont see your mod adds anything related to rape. Or there is some rape outcome on seduce scheme ?.

 

Secondly, it seems i can still completely reject someones seduce scheme (By clicking the choice "Thanks but no" on vanilla Ck3). Is that intended ?. It seems the choice are still vanilla

[Siudhne]

11 hours ago, brukujin said:

Hello. It seems you change carn recently raped trait. Cause i dont see your mod adds anything related to rape. Or there is some rape outcome on seduce scheme ?.

 

Secondly, it seems i can still completely reject someones seduce scheme (By clicking the choice "Thanks but no" on vanilla Ck3). Is that intended ?. It seems the choice are still vanilla

No, it only gives a fertility debuff in case someone gets raped, but the mod doesn't add rape content itself (yet). I was researching related gameplay mechanics and felt it was justified from an immersion pov.

 

To your second point, no, that's only supposed to happen if the opposing seduce attempt failed (in which case you should not have the option to enthusiastically agree). However, I know that for some reasons, the vanilla event still spawns, and I have no clue why that sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. ?

[The Lord]

Would it be possible to decouple the fertility penalty for player characters and children? The AI doesn't like to marry low fertility characters, making -60% too steep of a malus for children without fertility boosting traits like Fecund or Beautiful if you actually want to marry them off to someone half decent. For the main character, however, -60% and even -80% are manageable ( using only -40%, you tend to still end up with a lot of children).

[Lodakai]

3 hours ago, The Lord said:

Would it be possible to decouple the fertility penalty for player characters and children? The AI doesn't like to marry low fertility characters, making -60% too steep of a malus for children without fertility boosting traits like Fecund or Beautiful if you actually want to marry them off to someone half decent. For the main character, however, -60% and even -80% are manageable ( using only -40%, you tend to still end up with a lot of children).

 

It might be... although I haven't tried it, but you could try commenting out a section in EVENTS\cc_fertility_events.txt

 

on lines 13-15

 

changing

 

                    any_parent = { 
                        is_ai = no
                    }

 

to

 

  #                  any_parent = { 
 #                       is_ai = no
#                    }

 

That MIGHT work

[Siudhne]

13 hours ago, The Lord said:

Would it be possible to decouple the fertility penalty for player characters and children? The AI doesn't like to marry low fertility characters, making -60% too steep of a malus for children without fertility boosting traits like Fecund or Beautiful if you actually want to marry them off to someone half decent. For the main character, however, -60% and even -80% are manageable ( using only -40%, you tend to still end up with a lot of children).

Good idea! Marrying off your offspring shouldn't be any more difficult. I don't like removing it entirely though, my heir usually has a ton of children by the time I get to play them(*), which kind of defeats the purpose of the fertility reduction. However, maybe the debuff should only be added to your children once they are already married?

 

If you want to remove it yourself in the meantime, the alterations Lodakai proposes will work.

 

(*)Although lately I'm always playing Ultimogeniture Partition, which has less problems in that regard

Edited September 21, 2021 by Siudhne

[The Lord]

3 hours ago, Siudhne said:

I don't like removing it entirely though, my heir usually has a ton of children by the time I get to play them(*), which kind of defeats the purpose of the fertility reduction. However, maybe the debuff should only be added to your children once they are already married?

The weird part for balancing fertility here is the availability of sex events. From personal observation, a character with -40% or lower sires/conceives between 0 and 3 children without any sex events involved. As soon as even just Make Love is involved, this number skyrockets. Adding something like a Masked Orgy, the Morning After event for Feasts, visiting a brothel, etc. we suddenly have a bunch of potential pregnancies. Thus, for your main character, who tends to be the focus of most currently available sex events, this means lots and lots of children. For any of your children not involved in any such debauchery, this means considerably less children with the very same penalty. Basically, the more events end up being contributed in the coming years, the more chances everyone will get at having 10+ children or the more noticeable this divide between the main character and the rest of the cast (who might not receive so much attention) will become. Prolly will need some contraception (or have more characters become homosexual).

[Siudhne]

That conumdrum regarding sex events is exactly the reason why I've added a configurable fertility debuff. But you are right that the same logic doesn't apply to your children.

However, if you use the fertility debuff in excess of what the sex events add (as I do in my game to give any fertility related buffs more weight) you have the problem of children outperforming your main character.

 

For completeness, there probably ought to be a separate game rule to configure your children's fertility debuff, but that's probably a bit too much clutter - most players wouldn't know what or why to set that rule to different values. Thus I will probably go for a compromise of sorts: Full debuff for yourself, half debuff for children after marriage. Sounds good?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Siudhne

[The Lord]

34 minutes ago, Siudhne said:

Thus I will probably go for a compromise of sorts: Full debuff for yourself, half debuff for children after marriage. Sounds good?

For the current state of adult modding it should be good. It's probably gonna take some time for more events to show up and throw a wrench in the system.

 

And thanks for the quick replies.

[windtw]

There still old version (1.6.2) in download area
plz upload new version again, thx.

[Siudhne]

27 minutes ago, windtw said:

There still old version (1.6.2) in download area
plz upload new version again, thx.

Done, thanks for the info.

[nightbringer]

Wondering if there is any way to increase the chances of player abduction? Played a bit with the mod and was hoping for some AI abductions to trigger but had no luck.

 

Also are there special events that trigger when abducted?

[Siudhne]

5 hours ago, nightbringer said:

Wondering if there is any way to increase the chances of player abduction? Played a bit with the mod and was hoping for some AI abductions to trigger but had no luck.

 

Also are there special events that trigger when abducted?

To be honest, I never saw an abduction myself. It's probably some other conditions kicking in, making the AI too timid to start an abduction in the first place. I'll probably have to revisit that feature in the future.

 

There aren't any special events when abducted. Although thanks to writing by Rak1445 there will be a new "negative" event for something else, next version.

[Polyonamoose]

I'm nosing your code a bit for the Younger Rulers feature, as I'd like to find a way to get it to apply to an entire dynasty (or smash it into a succession law/culture trait/etc).

As written, would simply removing "is_ai = no" from the event entry in cc_young_ruler_events.txt apply it to the entire player dynasty, or to all AI characters? I'm a newbie modder and am having trouble telling.

 

[Siudhne]

20 hours ago, Polyonamoose said:

As written, would simply removing "is_ai = no" from the event entry in cc_young_ruler_events.txt apply it to the entire player dynasty, or to all AI characters? I'm a newbie modder and am having trouble telling.

It would be eligible to trigger for all AI characters.

[CobraPL]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2672676417
 

How about porting some functionality from this mod?

v1.2.2.2:
(AI actors are seduced based on the total attractiveness value of the recipients.)
(The total attractivedness value is calculated by including all factors such as age, disease, trait, tier and etc.)
(Recipients with high attractiveness value are more frequently exposed as seduction targets.)
(As the character gets older or sick become less attractive and therefore less temptation.)
(Seducers is selected as characters close to the sinner.)
(Seducers pay more attention to or ignore the specific condition of the seduced target (disease, marriage, tier, etc.) according to their personal tendencies.)
(The seducer seduces the most attractive character within diplomatic distance first.)