[SOLVED] HDT Armor & Cloaks Physics Bug/Shake/Collision

[LewdKrumb]

Hey guys !

 

So i have another problem with HDT that i can't solve. I searched everywhere for days but nothing.

 

So my problem is for ALL armor with HDT support wich have cloaks or similar in the back (work good on front of character).

 

I have this bug ONLY with my character. When my followers have the armor it's ok.

 

As you can see below, the cloak and the skirt (with HDT) have strange physics with struggling and shaking for nothing, even if i stay fixed.

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Moreover, the cloak and skirt seems to be push up by invisible collision(?) mesh...It's very strange and i'm confused.

 

I use CBBE HDT body with XPMSE, also SOS (for futa) and FloppySOS. And i use Skyrim Legendery Edition.

 

The armor comes from TeamTAL.

 

I tried disable all of these mods and use UNP body but nothing work...

 

Any idea ?

 

Hope someone can help me.

 

Thanks you for advance ^^

[Mez558]

57 minutes ago, LewdKrumb said:

The armor comes from TeamTAL.

 

I tried disable all of these mods and use UNP body but nothing work...

 

Any idea ?

 

Had a similar experience with that armour. Didn't try the cloak or it on a follower (as I rarely use them) but the armour behaved erratically, more like it was made of gossamer silk than animal hides.

 

In my experience HDT-PE cloth physics doesn't work as well as HDT-SMP. Do you have any other outfits that use HDT-PE Cloth physics that work ok? If so you could try using a tool like JustForFun (JFF) to compare the xml files and see if there is anything glaringly different with the Rigin Bodies and Constraint settings that you could change.

(You can view the xml's in a text editor but it's easier in JFF)

[LewdKrumb]

8 minutes ago, Mez558 said:

 

Had a similar experience with that armour. Didn't try the cloak or it on a follower (as I rarely use them) but the armour behaved erratically, more like it was made of gossamer silk than animal hides.

 

In my experience HDT-PE cloth physics doesn't work as well as HDT-SMP. Do you have any other outfits that use HDT-PE Cloth physics that work ok? If so you could try using a tool like JustForFun (JFF) to compare the xml files and see if there is anything glaringly different with the Rigin Bodies and Constraint settings that you could change.

(You can view the xml's in a text editor but it's easier in JFF)

 

Hummm yeah i tried use HDT-PE or HDT-SMP but it was the same.

 

I tried also a lot of outfits with HDT-PE like this one : ESO Altmer Armor. And the little pieces of cloak on the back had the same problem...

 

So i will try search conflicts with xml files as you advise me.

 

Thanks ^^. I keep you informed.

[27X]

4 minutes ago, LewdKrumb said:

HDT-PE or HDT-SMP but it was the same.

This is not a thing. This will never be a thing.

 

 

Regardless, you should checking the nifs to make sure they are annotated and attributed correctly, particularly if you have different body than your followers.

[Andy14]

Open the log file of HDT PE. The file is located in Data\SKSE\Plugins.
If it works for NPC and not for you, then your character has an hdt-xml that doesn't fit with the cloak-xml for Thight, Pelvis or Spine etc.
Collision groups and the size and shapes for these bones must be adjusted to one another.
The log shows which xml's are loaded for the player (000014).

[LewdKrumb]

9 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Open the log file of HDT PE. The file is located in Data\SKSE\Plugins.
If it works for NPC and not for you, then your character has an hdt-xml that doesn't fit with the cloak-xml for Thight, Pelvis or Spine etc.
Collision groups and the size and shapes for these bones must be adjusted to one another.
The log shows which xml's are loaded for the player (000014).

Ok well i opened all xml file and i searched conflits but i never used this program (JFF) so i have no idea what to look for...

 

Here i have the HDT-PE xml with the cloak xml and skirt xml:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

I guess i have to find problem with Motion_Sphere_Intertia related to the butt but i'm not sure.

 

You guys have tips or maybe topics that talk about it ?? I don't know where to start...

 

Thanks althoug ^^

[Andy14]

5 hours ago, LewdKrumb said:

Ok well i opened all xml file and i searched conflits but i never used this program (JFF) so i have no idea what to look for...

 

Here i have the HDT-PE xml with the cloak xml and skirt xml:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I guess i have to find problem with Motion_Sphere_Intertia related to the butt but i'm not sure.

 

You guys have tips or maybe topics that talk about it ?? I don't know where to start...

 

Thanks althoug ^^

Upload the 3 xml, I'll look at it tomorrow. It's too late now, it's 10:30 p.m.

[LewdKrumb]

2 hours ago, Andy14 said:

Upload the 3 xml, I'll look at it tomorrow. It's too late now, it's 10:30 p.m.

Ok thanks you so much !

 

And no problem, it's not urgent ^^ It's already nice to help me.

 

Here are xml files:

 

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml (HDT PE)

 

BDORG0001Cloak.xml (Armor cloak)

 

BDORG0001Skirt.xml (Armor skirt)

 

And just to be sure, i desactived SMP mod...this is good ?

 

Thx

[Andy14]

9 hours ago, LewdKrumb said:

Ok thanks you so much !

 

And no problem, it's not urgent ^^ It's already nice to help me.

 

Here are xml files:

 

hdtPhysicsExtensionsDefaultBBP.xml (HDT PE)

 

BDORG0001Cloak.xml (Armor cloak)

 

BDORG0001Skirt.xml (Armor skirt)

 

And just to be sure, i desactived SMP mod...this is good ?

 

Thx

 

Your xml's:

I just edited the Cloak.xml.
Changed the group of cloak-bones from 12 to 11.
The collision for group 11 with group 14 deactivated.
Standard bones (pelvis, etc.) collision deactivated for group 12 and activated for group 11.

 

Background:

Skirt-xml uses group 14 for skirt bones and collides with group 12.

In both xml the shapes are defined as vertices shapes. The same coordinates are used. Tested with pelvis only.

Since the bones in both xml also have the same prefix, I think it is from the same author.

If the cloak works, clipping with skirts can happen.

 

I can't visualize the VerticesShapes (without a lot of effort), so I don't know whether your BodyShape fits.

 

If it doesn't work you should contact the author.

 

Test_BDORG0001Cloak.xml

 

On the subject of SMP:
HDT SMP does nothing else than HDT PE. It moves bones using physics.

The differences are:
SMP is based on Bullet Physics and PE on Havok. Havok is also the physics engine for Skyrim.
However, it is essential that you do not have to define the shapes manually in Bullet.

 

The shapes are generated automatically depending on the bone weights of the vertices for the defined bone.
This is an advantage because you have less effort to create and is flexible (independent of shapes) - but also a disadvantage.

 

It is very computationally intensive and therefore not suitable for mass use.

With PE you can easily display 40-50 NPCs without significant FPS drops, with SMP there are already performance drops with 4 and more NPCs.

LowPoly dummy-meshes (used in SMP-PE Path) cannot sufficiently compensate for this.

Especially since from a certain limit of poly reduction the sense of SMP is superfluous.

 

SMP can be useful for PCs in individual cases.
Everyone has to decide for themselves.

You just have to know that it doesn't make sense to influence the same bone twice (no matter which physics engine). 

[LewdKrumb]

6 hours ago, Andy14 said:

 

Your xml's:

I just edited the Cloak.xml.
Changed the group of cloak-bones from 12 to 11.
The collision for group 11 with group 14 deactivated.
Standard bones (pelvis, etc.) collision deactivated for group 12 and activated for group 11.

 

Background:

Skirt-xml uses group 14 for skirt bones and collides with group 12.

In both xml the shapes are defined as vertices shapes. The same coordinates are used. Tested with pelvis only.

Since the bones in both xml also have the same prefix, I think it is from the same author.

If the cloak works, clipping with skirts can happen.

 

I can't visualize the VerticesShapes (without a lot of effort), so I don't know whether your BodyShape fits.

 

If it doesn't work you should contact the author.

 

Ok there are some improvments with the cloak but your xml did not change nothing, so i tried to desactive all collisions with cloaks-bones and standard bones (I checked all the boxes to test) and apparently it's better.

 

So here your modified xml:

Spoiler

 

And here when i tried to disable ALL collisions:

Spoiler

 

As you can see the cloak doesn't seems to be "pushed up" like before. But as you said the skirt continues to clipping...(not in this screenshot)

 

On other hand the cloak continues to have little "shaking".?

 

So may be i have to do same things with skirt xml ??? And modify other things to avoid cloak's shaking (like active/desactivate other bones/collision) ???

 

Ohhh and i understand for SMP, so i think i will keep it because i don't have any FPS issues (good GPU/CPU)?

 

Thanks for your help ^^  It's better but there are still some questions ?

 

[Andy14]

40 minutes ago, LewdKrumb said:

Ok there are some improvments with the cloak but your xml did not change nothing,

To be honest, I would have been surprised. Since I don't have the meshes (and therefore the skeleton) it was more of an attempt at logic.

 

42 minutes ago, LewdKrumb said:

On other hand the cloak continues to have little "shaking".

 

Shaking is usually because bones are very short and/or have too little mass. It's only (here) 0.1 kg and restitution is 0.98 (1 is endless movement).
In the first attempt you can try restitution to a value between 0.4-0.7. This is usually a useful value.
If it is not enough, increase the mass.

 

 

 

[LewdKrumb]

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

To be honest, I would have been surprised. Since I don't have the meshes (and therefore the skeleton) it was more of an attempt at logic.

Yep i understand don't worry ?

 

1 hour ago, Andy14 said:

Shaking is usually because bones are very short and/or have too little mass. It's only (here) 0.1 kg and restitution is 0.98 (1 is endless movement).
In the first attempt you can try restitution to a value between 0.4-0.7. This is usually a useful value.
If it is not enough, increase the mass.

 

I tried change restitution (with 0,4) and mass (with 0,5 also) for cloak xml and skirt xml but it didn't delete skaking...it seems to be random.

 

Maybe if i change friction or other parameters ??

 

thx.

[Andy14]

You can reduce the friction, but then from both collision objects. So cloak-bones and standard bones (pelvis, thight, etc).
But actually this should be the author's job and not yours.

[LewdKrumb]

31 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

You can reduce the friction, but then from both collision objects. So cloak-bones and standard bones (pelvis, thight, etc).

I tried but it didn't delete shaking, maybe a little bit...*Argh*

 

34 minutes ago, Andy14 said:

But actually this should be the author's job and not yours.

Well you're right ^^ But i don't have choice if i want to play with it.

 

Maybe i will contact the author for others armors and ajustments.

 

I change the topic to solved, even if shaking are always here.

 

 Anyway, thank you so much for your help, it's much better now and i'm satisfied ! ??

 

See you soon.

[shayanvahab]

On 9/23/2020 at 9:41 PM, LewdKrumb said:

I tried but it didn't delete shaking, maybe a little bit...*Argh*

 

Well you're right ^^ But i don't have choice if i want to play with it.

 

Maybe i will contact the author for others armors and ajustments.

 

I change the topic to solved, even if shaking are always here.

 

 Anyway, thank you so much for your help, it's much better now and i'm satisfied ! ??

 

See you soon.

How did you fix this?? I have the exact same problem with tem tal's mods right now.

 

•  

[LewdKrumb]

On 7/21/2021 at 1:52 PM, shayanvahab said:

How did you fix this?? I have the exact same problem with tem tal's mods right now.

 

•  

Hey !

 

So it's been a while but if i  remember correctly the problem was with another mod !

 

That one :  Joy of Perspective wich add a box collider at the hips.

 

So if you have this mod (or another wich can add colliders too) i suggest to delete it and use another one like Immersive First View.

 

 

Hope this works for you too !  Keep me informed !

[shayanvahab]

On 7/28/2021 at 5:19 PM, LewdKrumb said:

Hey !

 

So it's been a while but if i  remember correctly the problem was with another mod !

 

That one :  Joy of Perspective wich add a box collider at the hips.

 

So if you have this mod (or another wich can add colliders too) i suggest to delete it and use another one like Immersive First View.

 

 

Hope this works for you too !  Keep me informed !

Yeah thanks for the response... This is exactly how I fixed it too. but I had to disable all my mods and activate them one by one to see where the problem was.. Thanks again.

[nestor_0056]

On 28/7/2021 at 7:49, LewdKrumb said:

Ey !

 

¡Así que ha pasado un tiempo, pero si no recuerdo mal, el problema fue con otro mod!

 

Ese :   Joy of Perspective , que agrega un colisionador de cajas en las caderas .

 

Entonces, si tiene este mod (u otro que también puede agregar colisionadores), le sugiero que lo elimine y use otro como Immersive First View .

 

 

Espero que esto funcione para usted también ! ¡ Mantenme informado!

 

thanks man, I was looking for a solution weeks ago, and I didn't think it was that mod