Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Fascism is Far-Right? You've pretty much just destroyed whatever credibility you had by perpetuating this absurd mythology. I've already explained why it's utterly false, I shouldn't have to explain it anymore.
RandomOne Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 It's not even about right or left, dem or gop, it's the so called ruling class and the cultural elite vs. the rest of us. They want us to do what they tell us to do while maintaining seperate rules for themselves. We have failed as citizens and guardians of the constitution by not taking the power away from those who seek its destruction.We live in a post constitutional America where petty little bureaucrats tell us what we can and can't do without any debate or public comment.
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Fascism is Far-Right? You've pretty much just destroyed whatever credibility you had by perpetuating this absurd mythology. I've already explained why it's utterly false, I shouldn't have to explain it anymore. If by mythology you mean "understanding of history and of what fascism is and what makes it a far right idealogy" and a general refusal to allow it to redefined because the right is uncomfortable claiming their black sheep then guilty as charged. No amount of revisionist history or arguments by Rush Limbaugh and his ilk will change what Fascism is, what it represents, or which end of the political spectrum it belongs to. The left has to own up to communists being an example of far left politics gone horribly wrong, the right has to own up to fascists. Sorry, it's just how it is.
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 It's not even about right or left, dem or gop, it's the so called ruling class and the cultural elite vs. the rest of us. They want us to do what they tell us to do while maintaining seperate rules for themselves. We have failed as citizens and guardians of the constitution by not taking the power away from those who seek its destruction.We live in a post constitutional America where petty little bureaucrats tell us what we can and can't do without any debate or public comment. Modern day American left vs right tends to come down to (in political discourse and greatly simplified): The left believes the rest of us are being slowly destroyed by the ruling class. The right believes the ruling class is being demonized by the "takers" and if we'd just turn them loose they'd make money and jobs for the rest of us.
Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 If Communism, as demonstrated in Soviet-style Marxism-Leninism, is unanimously agreed to be far-left, how is fascism far-right when the differences between the two amount to platitudes? Your political spectrum is severely messed up by the way. The left believes in growing government, the right believes in shrinking government.
RandomOne Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 But that's what left vs right IS. Used to be but really how many elected republicans even bothered to comment on what Lord Bloomburg did,let alone rage against this abuse of power? The right holds no power at all, its just us common folk up in arms about such things, we rage a bit but it doesn't change anything . There is no right vs. left because the right isn't even fielding a team anymore.
RandomOne Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 It's not even about right or left, dem or gop, it's the so called ruling class and the cultural elite vs. the rest of us. They want us to do what they tell us to do while maintaining seperate rules for themselves. We have failed as citizens and guardians of the constitution by not taking the power away from those who seek its destruction.We live in a post constitutional America where petty little bureaucrats tell us what we can and can't do without any debate or public comment. Modern day American left vs right tends to come down to (in political discourse and greatly simplified): The left believes the rest of us are being slowly destroyed by the ruling class. The right believes the ruling class is being demonized by the "takers" and if we'd just turn them loose they'd make money and jobs for the rest of us. The left IS the ruling class, the right has been marginalized to the point where its even a minority in the republican party. Thr ruling class Republicans are just fine with the lefts agenda as long as they are taken care of too.
gregathit Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Actually, the ACLU has a TON to do, now more than ever. Who do you think are the ones fighting for our civil liberties everyday? I know they are the right's favorite whipping boy but in light of America post-9/11 they've never been more important. Oh? Well perhaps someone aught to inform the good old boys at the ACLU, they seem to be busy doing other stupid shit: 1. http://burnpit.us/2012/07/aclu-files-suit-against-obama-petraeus-behalf-dead-al-qaeda-terrorists 2. http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/aclu-asks-florida-court-reinstate-suspended-drivers-license-muslim-woman-forced-remo - this one is just sheer nonsense. How the fuck can a photo ID be valid with the veil? Seriously?! Hiding behind religion is not going to cut it. 3. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/11/aclu_lawsuit_fights_mandatory.html - again.....seriously?? Break the law and........don't go to jail????? Wow....just.....wow. 4. http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2012/07/17/aclu-files-%E2%80%98right-to-read%E2%80%99-lawsuit-in-michigan/ - this one is just going too far. While the ideals are...um....good, what does a lawsuit hope to accomplish? Let's make the school districts PAY MONEY it could have spent on children to defend itself in court......yea that will help things immensely!!! How about instead getting folks to the polls and calling their legislators and state board of education to get some standards set to help the kids. No, that would actually be smart, so let's not go that route. 5. http://www.eclectablog.com/2013/01/aclu-and-labor-coalition-file-suit-to-block-michigans-right-to-work-legislation.html - Now this one is a real wiz banger!!!!! I could write pages on the hypocrisy of this one! I'll refrain and keep it simple: A. The lockdown was due to union nut jobs breaking the law. B. The media participated by going right along with those lawbreakers and no decrying them. C. Lame Duck legislating happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME - NEWS FLASH - and suddenly now it is an issue?????? Don't get me wrong I would LOVE to see all state and federal legislators sent home after the elections and just basically close down the shop. Lame duck legislating should not EVER occur. But for them to use this as an excuse in this one isolated indecent is just criminally ridiculous. D. http://www.omaha.com/article/20121130/NEWS/711309914 - WTF???? Drivers licenses for ILLEGALS?!?! Seriously????? How about NOT!!! Now, don't get me wrong, the ACLU does by and in large , support good and worthy causes, so don't think I am an ACLU hater. I most certainly am not!!!! However, they need to seriously need to knock off the backing of nut jobs and keep focused on issues that actually matter! Like blocking CISPA!!!!!
Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 The left IS the ruling class, the right has been marginalized to the point where its even a minority in the republican party. Thr ruling class Republicans are just fine with the lefts agenda as long as they are taken care of too. Quoted for freakin' truth. It's even sadder when you realize the republican party has traditionally been the platform from which the right would oppose the left, but right now, with several notable exceptions, it's the Left vs Slightly Less Left in the ruling class.
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 If Communism, as demonstrated in Soviet-style Marxism-Leninism, is unanimously agreed to be far-left, how is fascism far-right when the differences between the two amount to platitudes? Your political spectrum is severely messed up by the way. The left believes in growing government, the right believes in shrinking government. The differences amount to far more than 'platitudes'. Also, saying the left believes in growing government and the right believes in shrinking government is far too simplistic. For one thing, left and right is about FAR more than the size of government even if that is the argument that we seem to hear the most. I'll borrow the layout of Fascism from this webpage that sources it pretty well: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/whitepapers/defining/leftwing_or_rightwing.htm To quote the page (which is in turn summarizing another page which is more or less compiling well known facts about Fascism) 1. Social Fascism: Fascism, in the social sense, is ultimately an affirmation of “traditional values”. 2. Fascism was ultimately born out of, and supported by, conservatism and the belief that Western Civilization had become decadent and self-ruinous. 3. So fascism, as it developed, was reactionary; it was a reaction to the perceived problems of modernism, and the immediate perceived threat of Communism. 4. Fascism labeled their enemies as decadent “liberals” and “Social Democrats.” 5. Early on fascism was seen as a movement that embraced Christianity. In Germany fascists promoted what they called “true Christianity”, which was essentially “Christian fundamentalism.” 6. The fascists opposed atheism, modernism, the Enlightenment, intellectualism, liberalism, democracy, Social Democrat activist, Marxism, secularism, true laissez-faire capitalism, and evolutionary theory. What is most important to note about this is that many people, not just the fascists, shared many elements of these same feelings. These sentiments are in essence the definition of right-wing social ideology. 7. Hitler himself complained of evolutionary theory and advocated teaching creationism in the German schools. "God Is With Us": Hitler's Rhetoric and the Lure of "Moral Values" by Maureen Farrell http://www.buzzflash.com/farrell/04/12/far04041.html “The book The German Churches Under Hitler includes his assertion that secular schools should not be tolerated while Hitler's Table Talk quotes him questioning the wisdom in teaching children both creationism and the theory of evolution. "The present system of teaching in schools permits the following absurdity: at 10 a.m. the pupils attend a lesson in the catechism, at which the creation of the world is presented to them in accordance with the teachings of the Bible; and at 11 a.m. they attend a lesson in natural science, at which they are taught the theory of evolution,"he said. "Yet the two doctrines are in complete contradiction. As a child, I suffered from this contradiction, and ran my head against a wall." " 8. In 1929 Mussolini signed the Lateran Treaty with Pope Pius XI. This established Catholicism as the official religion of the State, gave the Pope increased political powers, gave papal sovereignty to Vatican City, ensured that the Catholic religion would be taught in all schools, compensated the Pope with $90 million for the loss of papal property since 1870, and cemented broad Catholic support for Mussolini. 9. The Great Scandal: Christianity's Role in the Rise of the Nazis by Gregory S. Paul http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/paul_23_4.html The Concordat , signed on July 20, 1933, was a classic POLITICAL KICKBACK SCHEME. The Catholic church supported the new dictatorship by endorsing the end of democracy and free speech. In addition it bound its bishops to Hitler’s Reich by means of a loyalty oath and in exchange for supporting Hitler the Catholic church received enormous 1.) tax income and 2.) protection for church privileges. 3.) Religious instruction and prayer in school were reinstated. 4.) Criticism of the church was forbidden. 10. The first concentration camp in Germany was Dachau, which opened in 1933. The primary prisoners of the Dachau camp were Communists, Social Democrats, and atheists. The first camps were essentially for "enemies of the State". Over time Gypsies, homosexuals, and dissenting clergymen were sent to Dachau as well. Admittedly, the page I got this from is somewhat biased, yet those facts quoted above? Very easily verified historical information about who and what the fascists were.
Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 The fascists were primarily collectivists. The term "fascist" comes from the term "Fasces," meaning "bundle of sticks" (where we also get the term "faggot" from but that's not relevant ) in the understanding that a stick individually can be broken but together they were indestructible. This is reflected in Hitler and Mussolini's rise to power, where they created an Us vs Them dynamic that ultimately dissolved the individual in a sea of class/racial identity. Not to mention Mussolini and Hitler were well known to have consolidated power into the central government where they declared themselves dictators respectively, and centralized economic decision-making to this consolidated central government. Hitler in particular nationalized the banks, healthcare, and energy companies as well as appointed Nazi Party officials to head companies that were allowed to continue to exist. Sorry, but their views on religion (which btw aren't that strong, the belief in the Occult, aka not Christianity, is extremely well-documented in the case of the Nazis) doesn't mean anything. I would direct your attention to Liberation Theology, which is a sect of Catholicism which makes far more Marxist arguments than any traditional catholic sect. I would like to know some proof that that some variant of that is not the kind of Christianity the fascists preached.
Rayblue Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Seriously?? I think it was only in one state, New York I think, that did this but.. How does banning the sale of coke etc stop obesity? I cant wrap my head around this, must be some very angry soda drinkers in America. Bottom line: sometimes I don't enjoy the idea of a few food nazi nutcases trying to control your right to eat or drink something, and also I hate those asshats attempting to meddle on the dietary habits of foreign countries.
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 The fascists were primarily collectivists. The term "fascist" comes from the term "Fasces," meaning "bundle of sticks" (where we also get the term "faggot" from but that's not relevant ) in the understanding that a stick individually can be broken but together they were indestructible. This is reflected in Hitler and Mussolini's rise to power, where they created an Us vs Them dynamic that ultimately dissolved the individual in a sea of class/racial identity. Not to mention Mussolini and Hitler were well known to have consolidated power into the central government where they declared themselves dictators respectively, and centralized economic decision-making to this consolidated central government. Hitler in particular nationalized the banks, healthcare, and energy companies as well as appointed Nazi Party officials to head companies that were allowed to continue to exist. Sorry, but their views on religion (which btw aren't that strong, the belief in the Occult, aka not Christianity, is extremely well-documented in the case of the Nazis) doesn't mean anything. I would direct your attention to Liberation Theology, which is a sect of Catholicism which makes far more Marxist arguments than any traditional catholic sect. I would like to know some proof that that some variant of that is not the kind of Christianity the fascists preached. The Fascists were Nationalists with a healthy side helping of Racial purity politics. Sure they nationalized all kinds of stuff, that is part of being an ultra-nationalist. The occult stuff is primarily myth and legend and is not really documented at all. It was intended primarily to sell books which it succeeded in doing and let's face it, Nazis as occultists is a wonderful fictional trope, but that's really all it is. And I have no reason to prove that Nazis were not involved with Liberation Theology but if you really want proof it is incredibly easy. Liberaton Theology got its start in the 50s in South America. If we're talking the 'classical' Fascists, IE, Mussolini and Hitler then its clear they weren't preaching it. Let's not even touch on the fact that Liberation Theology is far too Marxist in feel for Fascists. Far from preaching it, they'd likely have sent its priests to concentration camps along with atheists, gays, communists, gypsies and jews.
gregathit Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Ok guys, while I am guilty as much as anyone we do need to stick to the OP's topic here (or stay close to it) and not go off on the tangent of left, right, up and down.
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Sorry Gregathit. I got some buttons pushed (revisionist history drives me crazy) and couldn't help myself. I'll be good now.
Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Revisionist historians and their myths that exist solely for political purposes drive me crazy as well, so there's plenty of blame to go around. Swinging it back to topic, the ruling class, which is controlled by the Left, has an incentive to increase its own power, and the only way to do that is by taking away liberty and doing more to be able to control the individual. In this case, what Bloomturd is doing is a reprehensible breach of the trust the people of New York granted to him when they elected him for a third term. I have known about this for months, and I am legitimately dissapointed that it's up to only a few conservative talk shows to talk about this. Next time I go to New York City, i'm gonna carry around a cooler filled with 1 liter soda bottles (~33 oz,) and i'll pour some servings for random people I meet on the sidewalk in styrofoam cups. Free of charge of course.
MGTNP Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I really don't care for Coke, don't like the ascid taste anyway, now if pepsi gets banm ill go on a riot. It's already bad enough I work for the government but if they get rid of my favarite drink, I'll think ill be joining a radical movement. The Government does not have the damm right to ban something like this. I could see cigrettes or alchol but soda? you gotta be F****** kidding me right? I known countless people who died from alchol and cigrettes but they don't do shit about those besides taxing them. If they banned cigrettes, I'd still have my mother. It's the people choice on what they want to eat and drink, if we wanna eat fatty food ans surgary goodness soda, then we should have the damm right. It is our responsbility when say no more. I hate the modern government, the entire government is full with idiots and rejects who have to go on putting taxing or banning something as soon as something happens. Are they going to ban candy beacuse someone died from eating 50 pounds of it in one day? Bullshit......
DoctaSax Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Swinging it back to topic, the ruling class, which is controlled by the Left,I can't say that it is. If it were, those of us that weren't aborted would all be smoking out at our gay weddings
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Revisionist historians and their myths that exist solely for political purposes drive me crazy as well, so there's plenty of blame to go around. Swinging it back to topic, the ruling class, which is controlled by the Left, has an incentive to increase its own power, and the only way to do that is by taking away liberty and doing more to be able to control the individual. In this case, what Bloomturd is doing is a reprehensible breach of the trust the people of New York granted to him when they elected him for a third term. I have known about this for months, and I am legitimately dissapointed that it's up to only a few conservative talk shows to talk about this. Next time I go to New York City, i'm gonna carry around a cooler filled with 1 liter soda bottles (~33 oz,) and i'll pour some servings for random people I meet on the sidewalk in styrofoam cups. Free of charge of course. Please, please stop with these talking points like what I bolded. It's annoying and it's not on topic and it's taking cheap shots at the left and cheap shots that are utterly untrue as well. I'm doing my damnedest to be good after Gregathit's request but regurgitating Hannity/Limbaugh bull shit is making it very, very hard.
RandomOne Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Yes, please stop using talking points that are not government approved official or we will put apple slices in you kids happy meal.
Something Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I don't drink soda, so this doesn't bother me. But that doesn't matter because I know history. As the poem does, first they came for the communists...
Riggswolfe Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 I don't drink soda, so this doesn't bother me. But that doesn't matter because I know history. As the poem does, first they came for the communists... The irony of you posting that poem is delicious, particularly given who the Nazis 'came for' first, second, and third (in some versions). Communists, Socialists, Trade Unionists. Hmmmm...interesting list... Still, it's WAY over the top in relation to this silly soda pop issue which will likely just get relaxed when the next mayor comes in anyway thus earning him or her popularity from the get-go. Bloomberg was an idiot to put it in place and has made himself a laughing stock over it. *shrugs* It's not exactly a lead in to some kind of take over of people's lives.
Captain Cobra Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Thank you based government overlords, how would I ever know how much soda is too much soda without your divine guidance?
gregathit Posted March 7, 2013 Posted March 7, 2013 Still, it's WAY over the top in relation to this silly soda pop issue which will likely just get relaxed when the next mayor comes in anyway thus earning him or her popularity from the get-go. Bloomberg was an idiot to put it in place and has made himself a laughing stock over it. *shrugs* It's not exactly a lead in to some kind of take over of people's lives. While you are most certainly correct, it is indeed foreboding if silly laws like this don't get repealed. Idiots like Bloomberg, and others who want to force government into places it does not belong, use test cases like this to up the ante. Defeating stupid crap like this, is far easier if folks fight it early than if folks let it and hundreds of other similar laws get stacked upon them. Then the fight gets nasty and is often untenable to the average Joe. Catastrophes often start with small, seemingly innocuous things.
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