Better NPC Support for Devious Devices

[Kharos]

47 minutes ago, liruidong said:

Bound NPCs still can't fight when bound combat is enabled. I do not know why.

 

Ok, I assume you did enable it in the DD MCM (Devious Devices -> Devices -> Enable Bound Combat).

 

The other condition is that NPC's legs need to be free; if they are wearing fetters or hobble dresses, they will not be able to kick (same logic as the one used for the player). You can check this in the MCM, too: Point the crosshair at the NPC, then in my MCM do Analyze NPC under crosshair -> Tracking status, it will show you a pop-up menu with additional details for the NPC. If the list includes "Helpless" then the NPC is not able to fight.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Kharos

[liruidong]

44 minutes ago, Kharos said:

 

Ok, I assume you did enable it in the DD MCM (Devious Devices -> Devices -> Enable Bound Combat).

 

The other condition is that NPC's legs need to be free; if they are wearing fetters or hobble dresses, they will not be able to kick (same logic as the one used for the player). You can check this in the MCM, too: Point the crosshair at the NPC, then in my MCM do Analyze NPC under crosshair -> Tracking status, it will show you a pop-up menu with additional details for the NPC. If the list includes "Helpless" then the NPC is not able to fight.

 

 

Thank you. I solve this problem.

[VAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAV]

in MCM,  what meaning of this "NPCs to process/3 seconds"?

I can set this to 1~10.
but there is written 3 seconds already.

 

so it means 1~10/3(=0.33~3.33) seconds, NPC will try to process? (however, i couldn't understand what process is)

or "3 seconds" it is  just default, so per 1~10 secs, NPC will try to process?

and "Allow manipulation of devices" this option allow to NPCs can manipulate Devices they wearing? like Devious Device Manipulation options. (PC can make device doesn't require key or chance-check.)

Edited March 19, 2022 by AOBVUAM

[Kharos]

21 minutes ago, AOBVUAM said:

in MCM,  what meaning of this "NPCs to process/3 seconds"?

I can set this to 1~10.
but there is written 3 seconds already.

 

so it means 1~10/3(=0.33~3.33) seconds, NPC will try to process? (however, i couldn't understand what process is)

 

This setting is used to slow the mod down such that it will hopefully not use too much processing time and cause papyrus lag. In every "slice" of 3 seconds, the mod is allowed to process up to X NPCs. If more NPCs need processing then they are put into a "waiting queue". For example if it is set to 3 and you enter a cell that has 7 NPCs who are wearing devices, it means that the mod will "fix" the devices of 3 NPCs, then after 3 seconds it will fix the devices of 3 more NPCs, and then after further 3 seconds it will process the last NPC.

 

26 minutes ago, AOBVUAM said:

and "Allow manipulation of devices" this option allow to NPCs can manipulate Devices they wearing? like Devious Device Manipulation options. (PC can make device doesn't require key or chance-check.)

 

No, it means that you as a player will get the option to further manipulate some devices. At the moment this allows you to insert/remove the plug of panel gags that are worn by NPCs. I may implement more options in the future.

[VAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAV]

12 hours ago, Kharos said:

No, it means that you as a player will get the option to further manipulate some devices. At the moment this allows you to insert/remove the plug of panel gags that are worn by NPCs. I may implement more options in the future.

 

Thank you for explaining.

 

[kadsend]

I know this request would've already been made but I can't seem to find it here... Is it possible to add ZAZ devices to be checked on as well as DD? Would be neat since DD doesn't have a wide range of iron shackes and yokes (HDT chains CTD me) and those sadly don't work correctly on NPC's as well... 

Anyways, if you don't want or have time to do this, how can I myself solve it then?

 

Thanks for the mod!

[Slitpipes]

Hey Kharos, started testing this one out today, aside from a save corruption mid game (I was still playing and able to just make new saves so all good) everything is going fantastic. I've been spawning in various DD and DCL items and so far everything works wonders.

 

If I may make a suggestion: My one big issue right now with all of the DD library is my followers never get bound with me. Since your mod so heavily influences NPCs would it be possible to make any female NPC who enters the "downed, cowering, and regenerating health" state auto equip random DD?

 

Or if that is a no go would it be possible to make a defeated follower "lying on her face sucking grass while i finish the fight state" get back up after combat with devices locked on her?

 

I'd really just like to see NPCs affected more often. Thank you

[DonQuiWho]

42 minutes ago, Slitpipes said:

Hey Kharos, started testing this one out today, aside from a save corruption mid game (I was still playing and able to just make new saves so all good) everything is going fantastic. I've been spawning in various DD and DCL items and so far everything works wonders.

 

If I may make a suggestion: My one big issue right now with all of the DD library is my followers never get bound with me. Since your mod so heavily influences NPCs would it be possible to make any female NPC who enters the "downed, cowering, and regenerating health" state auto equip random DD?

 

Or if that is a no go would it be possible to make a defeated follower "lying on her face sucking grass while i finish the fight state" get back up after combat with devices locked on her?

 

I'd really just like to see NPCs affected more often. Thank you

 

FWIW, Banemaster's versions of Defeat do that.  Limitations are that

 

5.3.5 only adds a fixed range of items that date back to DD4.0

5.3.6 + AndrewLRG's patch adds more modern DDs, but you need to have Cursed Loot loaded as AndrewLRG's patch utilises the DCL mechanic (and I think that means that it only picks up DDs that appear in DCL

 

Latest combo version is

 

SL Defeat SSE 5.3.6 Bane Live 24112021 - Dynamic DefeatLRG 1-4 SSE Patched to Bane Live 24112021

 

Half way down this page

 

Hope that helps

 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2022 by DonQuiWho

[Slitpipes]

Wow thank you DonQuiWho, very fast and straight to the point. I will incorporate these into my game and give them a go. If I still can't get my followers to be punished when I am punished I may post here again with my load order so someone can tell me I'm dumb and what I did wrong.

[Slitpipes]

*Sigh* I must be doing something wrong. Disclaimer: I am very new to moding. No matter what happens my player character is the only one to get DD's put on her, my followers are always untouched they just teleport to me after the event completely fine. I use NMM so I am not sure how to show my mod load order to see where I went wrong. Any help is greatly appreciated thank you.

[DonQuiWho]

10 hours ago, Slitpipes said:

*Sigh* I must be doing something wrong. Disclaimer: I am very new to moding. No matter what happens my player character is the only one to get DD's put on her, my followers are always untouched they just teleport to me after the event completely fine. I use NMM so I am not sure how to show my mod load order to see where I went wrong. Any help is greatly appreciated thank you.

 

Please note, I am not an expert on this!

 

Things to check (OTTOMH, exact MCM descriptions may vary! ?) - I'm presuming you followers are F, not M

 

The AndrewLRG patch (LRG for short) should follow Defeat 5.3.6 in the load order.  Both should probably be after all the other DD and DCL mods

 

As LRG depends on the DCL mechanic

 

1 - have you checked the DCL probabilities for DDs?  If they are all sitting as low % you might just have got unlucky.  Try everything switched 'on' and with maxxed out %s

2 - same point for the Post Event settings in the Defeat MCM - make sure you have them all on and maxxed out.  You can always change all the settings again later if they are too full on

3 - does DCL show your followers active in that mod?.  Check the followers page in DCL there.  If not, try using the 'Fix Followers' section in DCL's MCM Debug page so that DCL recognises that you have them following

 

OOIC, why do followers 'teleport' to you post event?  Don't remember seeing that in any version of Defeat I have used

 

The other thing I would try is ask the same question on the Defeat thread referenced above  - I'd suggest searching it but LL search is iffy right now.  If you want to try search, do it through Google, as that's more reliable at the moment

 

And if you go to the Defeat thread to shout for help (gag allowing ?), tag in @Herowynne as they're the real expert on the mods practical use

 

Hope some of that helps.  Don't give up.  It works for most ppl, so it'll work for you too

 

 

[Slitpipes]

Thank you again DonQuiWho, defeat seems to be operating fine. When I looked at the settings it only ever specifies that the PC gets DD's placed after a scene and that totally happens. Last night I read every SL framework mod and DD related mod to at least make sure I'm doing my research. As far as I can tell only DCL ever specifies affecting followers when the PC is tied as well. DCL is where I am thinking my problem is now because lots of it's features stop working after the Helgen escape tutorial. Even with 100% chances and all others factors maxed out I never find traps, the "your character is eligible for r*pe" stops functioning, it constantly losses track of who my followers are, and no one ever comments on my state of restraint. However everything else works as intended with DCL so I'm not sure where the disconnect is happening.

I guess it circles back to my original post tossing the thought to Kharos, it seems (to me, a probable moron) that Kharos' mod is perfectly placed to be a bridge connecting DD's to followers. Especially with what I have seen of Defeat working wonders with the downed state if a mod could be introduced where after a defeat scene plays out on an NPC they could have DD's equipped on them. Then Kharos' mod making NPC's struggle to escape DD's would blend so beautifully. I may be new to this community but the work you all have done is astounding and I am happy to be testing what will become the future of "Sexy Skyrim".

I sincerely hope I caused no offense to any mod creator with my rambling.

[Herowynne]

17 minutes ago, Slitpipes said:

DCL is where I am thinking my problem is now because lots of it's features stop working after the Helgen escape tutorial. Even with 100% chances and all others factors maxed out I never find traps, the "your character is eligible for r*pe" stops functioning

Most of DCL’s features are suspended while any DCL quest is running. That includes Chloe’s quest that begins while inside Helgen. Many folks mistakenly believe that DCL is not working when starting a new game in Helgen, when the actual issue is that Chloe’s quest is active.

[Slitpipes]

Ahhh that absolutely makes sense. Thank you @herowynne I will go see about getting out of that quest, I love Chloe but don't plan on doing her quest again any time soon. If this restores the functionality of followers being affected again then my problem may only be in my mind.

[DonQuiWho]

5 hours ago, Slitpipes said:

Ahhh that absolutely makes sense. Thank you @herowynne I will go see about getting out of that quest, I love Chloe but don't plan on doing her quest again any time soon. If this restores the functionality of followers being affected again then my problem may only be in my mind.

 

@Herowynne

 

Thanks for that heads up.  It had never crossed my mind that DCL's suspension might actually impede the AndrewLRG patch, but it would certainly make sense

 

@Slitpipes

 

You persevere.  I have games in which my followers get defeated, bound up with DDs and Kharos mod makes them all struggle beautifully, and it is fun to watch

 

DDs making for followers being combat restricted makes for a whole new strategic edge to the gameplay too,

 

FWIW, I normally play something like this

 

- use crafted DD keys/piercing removal tools, and chastity belt keys - you need to first learn how to craft DD keys using the Forbidden Bookshelf literature in Winterhold College

 

- give followers the chance to help you escape if you or they are in posession of keys  - you need the Devious Device Helpers mod

 

- before going dungeon diving, or adventuring, give each of the party a limited number of the restraint removal items  - you do need some self discipline here so as not to give them all hundreds and so remove any meaningful challenge.  Maybe leave some with your horse.  Or stashed at your player homes

 

So you can/have to manage progress through a dungeon, making use of your party's resources as you go, deciding what's important and what isn't - eg - do you leave a follower in boots, or with the gag they got equipped after the last skirmish, so as to leave some keys to fall back on? etc

 

It also means that the chance of getting stalled in a dungeon etc, and having to back out and visit a blacksmith - something that quickly becomes a boring, tedious process - is lessened.  But it's not completely eliminated.  So you have a strategic management task to perform, over and above mere hack, slash and hope for the best

 

Hope that's helpful

 

Have fun

 

DQW

[Slitpipes]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:26 PM, DonQuiWho said:

You persevere.  I have games in which my followers get defeated, bound up with DDs and Kharos mod makes them all struggle beautifully, and it is fun to watch

 

 

Poking my head back in here. Thank you all again for your wonderful advice. @DonQuiWho would you please be so kind as to tell me your mod list for this play style. I am thinking about having a few different play throughs going to have variety everyday. Thank you so much

[DonQuiWho]

8 hours ago, Slitpipes said:

Poking my head back in here. Thank you all again for your wonderful advice. @DonQuiWho would you please be so kind as to tell me your mod list for this play style. I am thinking about having a few different play throughs going to have variety everyday. Thank you so much

 

Here's load order from a couple of SSE games.  Unfortunately they filled up early so not every mod I would prob use now made it in

 

One has a PAHE component and the other, sort of obviously ?, doesn't.  Both have follower merges

 

They work for me, but I have no idea what others would make of them

 

Hope they help

Alone and Afraid loadorder.txt catch or caught loadorder.txt

[noriginalnamesleft]

This mod seems to be out of date on SE - the player won't open their mouth when gagged while it's active. Tested with no other mods active beside masters.

[Kharos]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:30 AM, noriginalnamesleft said:

This mod seems to be out of date on SE - the player won't open their mouth when gagged while it's active. Tested with no other mods active beside masters.

 

This mod should not have any effect on the player, at all. It only handles NPCs and it does not overwrite anything from Devious Devices.

 

Do you have simple steps that I can use to try and reproduce your issue?

[CaptainJ03]

On 10/19/2022 at 7:30 AM, noriginalnamesleft said:

This mod seems to be out of date on SE - the player won't open their mouth when gagged while it's active. Tested with no other mods active beside masters.

On which DD release are you? DD 5,2 beta 9 is the current release (as of today at noon) - and there have been issues with the player's gag in 5.0 or 5.1 which have been fixed in the meantime, if you follow ^ the development thread.

So for @Kharos to be able to look at your issue, please test if the problem only occurs when this mod is active. As he said, it shouldn't affect the PC at all. And be sure to disable any "fixes" or "patches" that make things worse, or stuff like unforgiving devices, which may or may not screw up things.

[arbiter]

This is an experimental fix for this mod when enabling the "Run Scripts on Main Thread" tweak for Papyrus Tweaks NG

 

It adds a 1 second delay after line 704 of ddnf_npctracker_npc.psc so that the UnequipAndEquipDevices function can do its thing without getting outpaced by other things.

 

Why does it get outpaced? IDK. How did I figure out where to put the 1 second pause? Random stabbing at it for 5 hours.

 

If this fixes this mod for you when running that tweak, let me know. If it doesn't, let me know. If you aren't using that tweak, don't download this.

 

This was only tested with a few NPCs (and they were followers). More work may need to be done but I gotta sleep so I can travel tomorrow.

 

NPCDD Main Thread Patch.zip

Edited November 21, 2022 by arbiter

[Kharos]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:46 AM, arbiter said:

This is an experimental fix for this mod when enabling the "Run Scripts on Main Thread" tweak for Papyrus Tweaks NG

 

It adds a 1 second delay after line 704 of ddnf_npctracker_npc.psc so that the UnequipAndEquipDevices function can do its thing without getting outpaced by other things.

 

Why does it get outpaced? IDK. How did I figure out where to put the 1 second pause? Random stabbing at it for 5 hours.

 

If this fixes this mod for you when running that tweak, let me know. If it doesn't, let me know. If you aren't using that tweak, don't download this.

 

This was only tested with a few NPCs (and they were followers). More work may need to be done but I gotta sleep so I can travel tomorrow.

 

NPCDD Main Thread Patch.zip 53.3 kB · 3 downloads

 

Nice - while I am not personally using Papyrus Tweaks NG, I am open to make changes for supporting it. I don't have time right npw but I will take a closer look at your change.

Do you have experience with git? If so you can make a clone/branch with your changes on github, might be easier to track the changes.

[Kharos]

@arbiter I took a look, this is probably a logical place to put a wait(...) to ensure that the game has updated the state of the NPC after all the equip/unequip calls (e.g. updated worn keywords, etc).

 

• Did you test if a shorter wait (e.g. 0.25) is sufficient? In theory even a single frame might be enough to force the game to update the state of the NPC...
• Did you test if the escape system works with Papyrus Tweaks NG?

[ttpt]

12 hours ago, Kharos said:

@arbiter I took a look, this is probably a logical place to put a wait(...) to ensure that the game has updated the state of the NPC after all the equip/unequip calls (e.g. updated worn keywords, etc).

 

• Did you test if a shorter wait (e.g. 0.25) is sufficient? In theory even a single frame might be enough to force the game to update the state of the NPC...
• Did you test if the escape system works with Papyrus Tweaks NG?

 

I had actually run the papyrus tweak NG wit run scripts on main thread and was experiencing better performance out of SE that way, until I ran into the bug where followers wouldn't equip DD correctly, Was about to give up on SE again, but arbiter's tweak seems to have nailed the problem.

 

Anyway, I think the delay of 1 second is fine, because as I tested it's processing 4 followers along with other assorted scripts, it still has trouble with a follower or two, though it eventually after a few tries on the last follower it eventually caught up, all automatically, I feel if the de;lay is made shorter it will have just be causing the bug more often and fail to equip for longer, so it's not actually beneficial to make the wait shorter. Also NPCs attempting to escape do so correctly as well.

 

Also, I was testing it on a save that had a situation with DDs that would have a lot of stack dumps on the log before using "run scripts on main thread", I had given up on SE at that point before, so papyrus tweak NG and run scripts on main thread caused no stack dumping. It's supposed to cause FPS issues at the cost of running the scripts properly, much like LE does, and I much prefer a FPS drops than scripts just failing because there's too many happening.

 

[arbiter]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:32 AM, Kharos said:

@arbiter I took a look, this is probably a logical place to put a wait(...) to ensure that the game has updated the state of the NPC after all the equip/unequip calls (e.g. updated worn keywords, etc).

 

• Did you test if a shorter wait (e.g. 0.25) is sufficient? In theory even a single frame might be enough to force the game to update the state of the NPC...
• Did you test if the escape system works with Papyrus Tweaks NG?

 

Hi Kharos, sorry I was away for the holidays and then got the flu and I'm just recovering or I'd have done something with the git stuff. As ttpt points out even with the 1 second thing sometimes a device or two can fail to show the first time around (usually just looking at the inventory again and getting back out will fix it).

 

The main thing I notice with superfast scripts is that on the initial check it detects that the devices "aren't actually equipped" or etc., strips them, and then runs back through the checks again and works. Afterwards it doesn't do that. But it's a very short procedure and everything works so I enjoy the mod.

 

Anyways I wouldn't suggest shortening the 1 sec, if anything you might try it longer. Without the main threaded scripts other things take so long I couldn't tell it was a problem.

 

As a final note, this mod is a thing of beauty under the hood, I have a ton of appreciation for the work you put into it.

 

On 11/25/2022 at 3:44 PM, ttpt said:

 

I had actually run the papyrus tweak NG wit run scripts on main thread and was experiencing better performance out of SE that way, until I ran into the bug where followers wouldn't equip DD correctly, Was about to give up on SE again, but arbiter's tweak seems to have nailed the problem.

 

Thanks for testing it! Glad it worked out for you.