Better NPC Support for Devious Devices

[Kharos]

10 hours ago, arbiter said:

 

Hi Kharos, sorry I was away for the holidays and then got the flu and I'm just recovering or I'd have done something with the git stuff. As ttpt points out even with the 1 second thing sometimes a device or two can fail to show the first time around (usually just looking at the inventory again and getting back out will fix it).

 

The main thing I notice with superfast scripts is that on the initial check it detects that the devices "aren't actually equipped" or etc., strips them, and then runs back through the checks again and works. Afterwards it doesn't do that. But it's a very short procedure and everything works so I enjoy the mod.

 

Anyways I wouldn't suggest shortening the 1 sec, if anything you might try it longer. Without the main threaded scripts other things take so long I couldn't tell it was a problem.

 

As a final note, this mod is a thing of beauty under the hood, I have a ton of appreciation for the work you put into it.

 

 

Thanks for testing it! Glad it worked out for you.

 

Don't worry, as it turns out that it is only a single line change it does not need to be tracked in git for now.

 

If the initial check detects them as "not equipped" then we may need to play with the delays, e.g. increase the default delay in RegisterForFixup or increase/get rid of the ultra-short "high priority fix" delay. Most of these times are values that I put in after some trial and error because they worked well on my system, without papyrus tweaks.

 

Do you know if there is a way to detect if papyrus tweaks are installed with scripts in main thread or not, other than just calling a bunch of functions that usually need to sync with the main thread and then checking how much time elapsed?

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kharos

[arbiter]

3 hours ago, Kharos said:

 

Do you know if there is a way to detect if papyrus tweaks are installed with scripts in main thread or not, other than just calling a bunch of functions that usually need to sync with the main thread and then checking how much time elapsed?

 

 

I think there's a new way to check for that, but as it turns out I don't think it matters, the papyrus tweaks author just updated to 3.0 - it avoids speeding up a bunch of vanilla functions, which is supposed to fix all the mods that were messing up. I just tested without my 1 second delay fix and this mod now seems to be working fine with the main thread thing, and it doesn't do the strip/replace like it was doing with my fix, it just works fast and with no hassle.

 

If it randomly breaks in the future I'll let you know, but it seems to be all good now!

[Musje]

Continuing the discussion from the DOM thread.

 

I'm running Skyrim AE with PAHE, DOM, the "papyrus on main thread" thing, Papyrus Utils 3.0 and this mod, with the recently posted patch.  It seems to work well, except when I remove a DD device from a PAHE slave.  The device is removed but is then re-equiped.  It looks like the script instance is re-equipped: the inventory shows no DD device.

[Kharos]

On 12/2/2022 at 2:37 AM, Musje said:

Continuing the discussion from the DOM thread.

 

I'm running Skyrim AE with PAHE, DOM, the "papyrus on main thread" thing, Papyrus Utils 3.0 and this mod, with the recently posted patch.  It seems to work well, except when I remove a DD device from a PAHE slave.  The device is removed but is then re-equiped.  It looks like the script instance is re-equipped: the inventory shows no DD device.

 

I have seen that rarely / randomly happening with PAHE slaves. Usually re-equpping and then removing the device again solved it. It's possible that papyrus tweaks will make it happen more often.

 

I have time today so I will install papyrus tweaks and play around for a while to see if I can reproduce it more consistently like that.

[Kharos]

On 12/2/2022 at 2:37 AM, Musje said:

Continuing the discussion from the DOM thread.

 

I'm running Skyrim AE with PAHE, DOM, the "papyrus on main thread" thing, Papyrus Utils 3.0 and this mod, with the recently posted patch.  It seems to work well, except when I remove a DD device from a PAHE slave.  The device is removed but is then re-equiped.  It looks like the script instance is re-equipped: the inventory shows no DD device.

 

Ok, I could not reproduce it. I was using the newest papyrus tweaks (3.0) and the latest beta of my mod., on AE.

 

Can you please check if you still have the problem with this combination?

If yes, please give me more details as this can influence timing and/or events:

• does the slave have equipment other than DD devices (armor/clothes/jewelry) or not?
• does the slave have weapons/a shield or not?
• is the slave set to fight for you or not?
• how exactly are you adding/removing devices (e.g. "you are going to wear this")?

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Kharos

[arbiter]

10 hours ago, Kharos said:

 

Ok, I could not reproduce it. I was using the newest papyrus tweaks (3.0) and the latest beta of my mod., on AE

 

 

Keep in mind Musje is still using my patch, tho I doubt that'd affect it, not sure. They said in the other thread that 3.0 and DDNPC didn't work without my patch, which is strange.

[liruidong]

Can we choose specific NPCs to make them struggle?

[Kharos]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:28 AM, liruidong said:

Can we choose specific NPCs to make them struggle?

 

At the moment you can only choose between followers and others. Can you be more concrete - what kind of NPC would you like to struggle / to not struggle?

[DonQuiWho]

@Kharos 

 

Been using your Better NPC Support mod for a long time now but I'm suffering a CTD when using PAHE, and I'd like to try to eliminate this as the cause.  

 

I've been using 0.7 Beta 1 on SE for quite a while (seen there's a Beta 2, just downloaded it and will be trying it out in future)

 

My issue is that when I use the PAHE mod's  'strip and set outfit' command, when I then tell the NPC slave 'I want you to wear this', I get fairly consistent CTDs when I try to remove weapons.  About 50:50 OK vs CTD

 

Thought I'd have a look at their inventory via the console this time, and I see a 'DDNF Dummy weapon' there that comes from this mod.  How does that weapon show up in the NPCs Inventory in game when I access that through the 'I want you to wear this' dialogue - or in any other view of the inventory when looked at in game?  I don't ever remember seeing anything called that.  And where is it 'sourced' from?

 

I've attached a couple of Netscript Framework Crash Logs that tend to point the finger for my CTDS at  ...

 

Weapons Armor Clothing and Clutter Fixes-18994-2-9-2-1671847102

and

USSEP

 

.... but I thought I'd ask, just on the offchance that if I'm removing your 'dummy weapon' and it might be sourced from USSEP, then that might be what's having a fit when it comes into contact with PAHE/WACCF 

 

If it's not something you have seen or know of, from here, or elsewhere, it's probably just a red herring and you can tell me to look elsewhere!

 

TIA for any feedback you can offer

 

DQW

 

Crash_2023_2_18_20-12-5.txt Crash_2023_2_18_16-53-0.txt

[Kharos]

1 hour ago, DonQuiWho said:

@Kharos 

 

Been using your Better NPC Support mod for a long time now but I'm suffering a CTD when using PAHE, and I'd like to try to eliminate this as the cause.  

 

I've been using 0.7 Beta 1 on SE for quite a while (seen there's a Beta 2, just downloaded it and will be trying it out in future)

 

My issue is that when I use the PAHE mod's  'strip and set outfit' command, when I then tell the NPC slave 'I want you to wear this', I get fairly consistent CTDs when I try to remove weapons.  About 50:50 OK vs CTD

 

Thought I'd have a look at their inventory via the console this time, and I see a 'DDNF Dummy weapon' there that comes from this mod.  How does that weapon show up in the NPCs Inventory in game when I access that through the 'I want you to wear this' dialogue - or in any other view of the inventory when looked at in game?  I don't ever remember seeing anything called that.  And where is it 'sourced' from?

 

I've attached a couple of Netscript Framework Crash Logs that tend to point the finger for my CTDS at  ...

 

Weapons Armor Clothing and Clutter Fixes-18994-2-9-2-1671847102

and

USSEP

 

.... but I thought I'd ask, just on the offchance that if I'm removing your 'dummy weapon' and it might be sourced from USSEP, then that might be what's having a fit when it comes into contact with PAHE/WACCF 

 

If it's not something you have seen or know of, from here, or elsewhere, it's probably just a red herring and you can tell me to look elsewhere!

 

TIA for any feedback you can offer

 

DQW

 

Crash_2023_2_18_20-12-5.txt 51.79 kB · 0 downloads Crash_2023_2_18_16-53-0.txt 55.9 kB · 0 downloads

 

The dummy weapon is from this mod, yes. It's a two-handed weapon that has no 3D model and unarmed combat animations. I am force-equipping it on NPCs who are bound to prevent them from drawing other weapons. Especially followers would very stubbornly draw their weapon when the player draws his weapon. Sometimes this would break their "bound hands" animation; at other times their hands would stay on their back but they were holding their weapons in their hands.

 

You are not able to see this weapon in the game UI because it is set as non-playable, so the game is hiding it from the player.

 

[Edit] The dummy weapon has nothing to do with WACCF and/or USSEP. I don't know though what will happen if a script tries to move it from the NPC inventory to the player inventory, or to drop it into the game world, as it is not player-visible and has no model...

Edited February 18, 2023 by Kharos

[Kharos]

I am not playing Skyrim at the moment. Please tell me if you spot any issues with DD 5.2.

[barumpa]

Does this mod work well with unforgiving devices, I'm guessing there might be conflicts..

[Kharos]

19 hours ago, barumpa said:

Does this mod work well with unforgiving devices, I'm guessing there might be conflicts..

 

I have not tested it personally, but this mod does not override anything from the devices themselves, it just manipulates NPCs. So there is a good chance that it will work.

Please try it out, and if there are issues, please tell me.

[kurotatsu]

UD in Beta 2.1 has it's own NPC AI running, so having this at the same time is counter-productive.

[Modtesting1]

The mod shows that it is SE compatable however the MCM does not show up at all. It loaded properly and did not crash the game but there is no MCM. has anyone lse seen this?

[Kharos]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:31 AM, Modtesting1 said:

The mod shows that it is SE compatable however the MCM does not show up at all. It loaded properly and did not crash the game but there is no MCM. has anyone lse seen this?

 

It does show up for me with AE... but I had that multiple times with other mods that MCM did somehow not recognize the mod. What sometimes helped was removing the mod, making a new save, then re-adding and loading that save. Though that procedure is somewhat unsafe...

[pappana]

This is amazing! what always bothered me was that the npc only struggled for a little bit and not like the player does so having them actuallly struggle will be awesome but does this conflict with OAR animations?

[Kharos]

On 9/13/2024 at 1:21 AM, pappana said:

This is amazing! what always bothered me was that the npc only struggled for a little bit and not like the player does so having them actuallly struggle will be awesome but does this conflict with OAR animations?

 

I have no idea if this even works with OAR as it was developed before DD/OAR was a thing.

[pappana]

8 hours ago, Kharos said:

 

I have no idea if this even works with OAR as it was developed before DD/OAR was a thing.

 

I have no idea either but i saw the mod description and went for it xD the MCM shows up so i asume it does something but i never really got far enough into the game to notice something cause i nuked my install and is currently starting over

[Kharos]

On 9/14/2024 at 8:00 PM, pappana said:

 

I have no idea either but i saw the mod description and went for it xD the MCM shows up so i asume it does something but i never really got far enough into the game to notice something cause i nuked my install and is currently starting over

 

 

I have attached a beta version with preliminary support for Devious Devices NG with OAR and FNIS. Changelog:

 

Version 0.7 beta 5
- preliminary support for Devious Devices NG
- forward zazWornWrist keyword to DD bondage if Powerofthree's Papyrus Extender is installed
- allow configuring simple options for individual NPCs in MCM: ignore, always treat as follower

 

I have seen some situation where followers "lose" their bound animation and stand idle with free hands; when I bump into them and cause them to stagger back they resume the bound animation. If you are able to pin it down to certain situations (e.g. after loading screens) I might be able to do something about that.

Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.7 beta 5 SE.7z

[pappana]

On 10/18/2024 at 9:49 AM, Kharos said:

 

 

I have attached a beta version with preliminary support for Devious Devices NG with OAR and FNIS. Changelog:

 

Version 0.7 beta 5
- preliminary support for Devious Devices NG
- forward zazWornWrist keyword to DD bondage if Powerofthree's Papyrus Extender is installed
- allow configuring simple options for individual NPCs in MCM: ignore, always treat as follower

 

I have seen some situation where followers "lose" their bound animation and stand idle with free hands; when I bump into them and cause them to stagger back they resume the bound animation. If you are able to pin it down to certain situations (e.g. after loading screens) I might be able to do something about that.

Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.7 beta 5 SE.7z 124.83 kB · 1 download

Paradise halls had a bug in LE witch caused slaves to loose their bound hand animations after loading screens.

 

From my end on SE i have narrowed my issues down to ineed and the "followers eat and drink Animation setting" for followers wich caused the animation to break(NOTE: This was before i installed this mod, i havent actually used this one on SE as of yet but i installed it on my new SE now so ill see) but like I said i havent gone far enough ingame with this mod to notice what it does indepth and i havent even used it on SE at all.

 

But its installed and i will have fun trying it.

Edited October 19, 2024 by pappana
Updated post

[pappana]

On 10/18/2024 at 9:49 AM, Kharos said:

 

 

I have attached a beta version with preliminary support for Devious Devices NG with OAR and FNIS. Changelog:

 

Version 0.7 beta 5
- preliminary support for Devious Devices NG
- forward zazWornWrist keyword to DD bondage if Powerofthree's Papyrus Extender is installed
- allow configuring simple options for individual NPCs in MCM: ignore, always treat as follower

 

I have seen some situation where followers "lose" their bound animation and stand idle with free hands; when I bump into them and cause them to stagger back they resume the bound animation. If you are able to pin it down to certain situations (e.g. after loading screens) I might be able to do something about that.

Better NPC Support for Devious Devices 0.7 beta 5 SE.7z 124.83 kB · 2 downloads

 

Just so there is no misunderstanding i used this mod on LE. it wasnt installled on my SE build until now but im gonna try this new beta. This is an amazing concept 

[MasterKriiden]

Using this mod on SE (AE). (Beta version) It completely disables bound combat for npcs.

To be clear, I'm using it with OAR and NG. 

EdIt: after experimentation, I realised you needed to have a npc under the crosshairs to scan them for an option to even show up; I figured it would show a null field in the MCM before using your crosshairs, and I wrongly assumed since I saw nothing, it wasn't there.

Edited October 28, 2024 by MasterKriiden

[pappana]

On 10/27/2024 at 5:15 PM, MasterKriiden said:

Using this mod on SE (AE). (Beta version) It completely disables bound combat for npcs.

To be clear, I'm using it with OAR and NG. 

EdIt: after experimentation, I realised you needed to have a npc under the crosshairs to scan them for an option to even show up; I figured it would show a null field in the MCM before using your crosshairs, and I wrongly assumed since I saw nothing, it wasn't there.

 

For reference what exactly does this mean? im using all 3 like you and i dont understand what that means? Does this not work with ng and oar?

[DragonHunter1202]

Is it possible to make NPCs struggle but never be able to escape?