Animal Mansion 4??? (Dev Thread)

[Twisted Allegro]

6 hours ago, Xonder23 said:

 "AMX" not "AME"st had to do it.

oops

[arvq]

Im at the kingdom sheep quest, but the dialogue only comes up for guards and none of them know. How do I progress this quest? HALP

[coffeeandcynicism]

16 hours ago, arvq said:

Im at the kingdom sheep quest, but the dialogue only comes up for guards and none of them know. How do I progress this quest? HALP

Go back to the mansion.

[RevanCathal]

Just wanted to follow up and say that whatever conflict that exists between AMP SE and USSEP that creates a dark face bug with Herta (and possibly other NPCs) doesn't appear to exist within your mod, so kudos.

[wildtangent]

So just to be sure, after getting the horses that's the end for now?

[skyrim482]

2 hours ago, wildtangent said:

So just to be sure, after getting the horses that's the end for now?

Yes, hopefully some radiant quests will be added in the next update, I believe that was the goal at least.  Once those are added you can keep playing the repeatable ones so the content doesn't have a hard stop to it. Hoping all is well with Tasairis its been a few weeks since the last check in.

[tasairis]

Haven't read any replies, just getting online briefly enough for me to comment.

I ain't dead. The wolf quest has been done for a while now but I'm still dealing with the Companions half of it. Lots of dumb little things, lots of moving pieces to coordinate, and I just haven't been spending enough time on it (12h work days suck). Next time I try to quote a timeframe for doing a thing, someone slap me.

[N.Gamma]

When can we expect the release of version 0.4? I can't wait to start translating again!

[Guest]

No rush, I'd rather wait than see another person pick this mod up and burn out

[wildtangent]

No rush I was just making sure I wasn't missing anything. For the record I like what I have seen so far. I have not played previous versions, so I don't know what edits where yours. Keep up the good work.

[petronius]

tasairis,

Is your mod built on AM+ (meaning all of its content plus more) or did you start from scratch / remove features to build them differentely? Which one would have more content for a playthrough? Last run I used AMR but it glitched after the mansion was built, no client quests ever started and I was unable to progress. I don't mind playing alphas, used many on my last run and that SSE game lasted over 750 hours. Looking for the AM mod that currently has more content to enjoy.

Thanks for expanding the mod, the ideas chart looks interesting.

 

[krotiks]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:34 AM, petronius said:

tasairis,

Is your mod built on AM+ (meaning all of its content plus more) or did you start from scratch / remove features to build them differentely? Which one would have more content for a playthrough? Last run I used AMR but it glitched after the mansion was built, no client quests ever started and I was unable to progress. I don't mind playing alphas, used many on my last run and that SSE game lasted over 750 hours. Looking for the AM mod that currently has more content to enjoy.

Thanks for expanding the mod, the ideas chart looks interesting.

 

am+ has more content upfront but the dialogue and relationship progression in tasaris' mod is better so far, and am+ is a separate mod

[Ade4u1]

Hello.  I don't post a lot here, but  I ran into your page and I have to say, I really like what you are planning! I don't have any suggestions outside  of maybe indicating how some of the considerations for improvements might not be altogether necessary. I wish I could play your version. It looks amazing based on what people are saying on this thread. 

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

• Wenches (do they have a special function?)

I don't believe that this is altogether necessary. Theana is effectively the barmaid. Would not be too difficult is seems, to insert some dialog to make her a full fledged bartender. I suppose you might add some wenches in for more "human" services. Though as the story might say, "it's not a normal brothel".

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Recruit NPCs as Mansion staff (technically annoying)

If your like me, this would be a hell of a lot of work. I personally wouldn't do it anyway. Wouldn't really do too much for the plot outside of maybe having someone sweep the basement for droppings and hay. For roleplaying purposes, I tend to make my followers stay at the mansion and pretend that they are working for me to improve my business. Some of them wonder around and interact with the environment enough to make it 90% believable. I can see how there would be a story line and dialog which would allow the pc to recruit some either unique or generic npc's to assist with the mansion, though that seems like you would either have to integrate type 1. into the story or type 2. into a radiant quest. Either way it seems like you have a lot on your plate already so I'm not worried about that.

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

How does the player discover the mansion? (?)

If your still looking for ideas, I'd gladly offer some humble suggestions. Firstly the most obvious way to begin is through an innkeeper. But I'm sure you've already thought of that. Secondly, you could pull a barbarous and have an animal tell you about it lol. Or maybe a courier letter stating a going out of business notice from our main protagonist.

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Improve the Mansion to be a player home (do we really need another player home?)

I don't want another player home. Just having a room upstars to sleep in is enough for the roleplaying purposes. No real need to go further than that in my stupid opinion.

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Additional co-starring NPCs (who? architect? vet?)

If you do decide to make a vet, that would be fantastic! I mean there are several mods which have integrated STD's and condoms into the game. Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a doctor on staff for diagnostics. Hell you could even do animal breeding for livestock to sell if you wanted to I supposed... But that's not really worth doing at this time. I'm not assuming this is plausible being that I have no idea how hard it would actually be to integrate that into your mod. The thought is just amusing.

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Rich investor (what do they do?)

Isn't the player effectively the investor? Dovahkiin always seems to be in most scenarios. It would be pretty sweet to have the option to find an NPC to give this obscene amount of money to, in order to expand the mansion. Give it some superfluous decorations and functions. Just silly little things like that.

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Something to do with Khajiit and Argonians (?)

One word: Skooma

On 5/9/2020 at 6:30 PM, tasairis said:

Invest more time and effort into acquired creatures (what effort? what does it unlock?)

If you are looking for ideas on this? One could imagine teaching the animals "tricks" progressively. Like an unlock mechanic.  I'm actually not sure on the effort involved in this, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume you would put restrictions on certain animations for the creatures until such a time as the DB has put in their "time and effort" into the little critters. Granted there are several creatures that only have 1 animation.

 

Once again I hope I'm not assuming too much. I understand how horribly busy life can be. Your time and energy are valuable, and if even half of your plans are integrated into the story of this new version, it's going to be an amazing work of art.

I would really like to see this mod get off the ground. If you have a patreon or something like that, it seems that would be the only way I can contribute. Never modded myself so I can't contribute in that sense.  I can however offer support and encouragement to see this thing take off.

I am so sorry for the long post. Your efforts are inspired and I look forward to playing.

[tasairis]

On 11/17/2020 at 3:34 AM, petronius said:

tasairis,

Is your mod built on AM+ (meaning all of its content plus more) or did you start from scratch / remove features to build them differentely? Which one would have more content for a playthrough? Last run I used AMR but it glitched after the mansion was built, no client quests ever started and I was unable to progress. I don't mind playing alphas, used many on my last run and that SSE game lasted over 750 hours. Looking for the AM mod that currently has more content to enjoy.

Thanks for expanding the mod, the ideas chart looks interesting.

I kept the Mansion and NPC assets, because redoing those would suck*, but everything else is written from scratch based on my memories of playing AM/AM+.

 

Right now, AM+ definitely has the most content because of the simple fact that it's AM plus a couple more quests, while this mod is still brand friggin' new. I don't know how far AMR got beyond the stuff about the building.

 

* I hate landscaping in CK, and I'm open to edits to the NPCs as long as I'm not the one who has to do it and the results aren't too different from the originals.

[tasairis]

On 11/20/2020 at 1:10 PM, Ade4u1 said:

If your still looking for ideas, I'd gladly offer some humble suggestions. Firstly the most obvious way to begin is through an innkeeper. But I'm sure you've already thought of that. Secondly, you could pull a barbarous and have an animal tell you about it lol. Or maybe a courier letter stating a going out of business notice from our main protagonist.

Yeah, innkeeper is a standard go-to. But do people actually talk to them? Only thing I ever want from them is a bed to sleep in...

Courier is cliché.

Talking animal is... different, but then I'd have to explain the talking animal. Maybe something that reuses Barbas. He's (half of) a Daedric Lord, and a dog, so it's not a stretch to imagine he'd be interested in pushing the player towards the Mansion. And that would set him up to be used for something else later, which seems like a really obvious thing to do.

 

Basically I have two criteria for this: (1) it's something simple that won't leave unanswered questions I have to deal with, and (2) it's something interesting. No luck so far, so I'm content to rely on the fact that people installing this mod are already going to know where the Mansion is.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 1:10 PM, Ade4u1 said:

If you do decide to make a vet, that would be fantastic! I mean there are several mods which have integrated STD's and condoms into the game. Wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a doctor on staff for diagnostics. Hell you could even do animal breeding for livestock to sell if you wanted to I supposed... But that's not really worth doing at this time. I'm not assuming this is plausible being that I have no idea how hard it would actually be to integrate that into your mod. The thought is just amusing.

Thing is, having a vet makes total sense. We're talking about a business that revolves around having potentially dozens of animals, all in good working condition.

So I'm going to do it. Somehow.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 1:10 PM, Ade4u1 said:

If you are looking for ideas on this? One could imagine teaching the animals "tricks" progressively. Like an unlock mechanic.  I'm actually not sure on the effort involved in this, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume you would put restrictions on certain animations for the creatures until such a time as the DB has put in their "time and effort" into the little critters. Granted there are several creatures that only have 1 animation.

Always looking for ideas.

 

Animations are the main blocker for things like animal tricks. But an unlockable thing as a concept, that works well for the idea of allowing the player to enlist one of them as a follower and them having certain progressive abilities.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 1:10 PM, Ade4u1 said:

I would really like to see this mod get off the ground. If you have a patreon or something like that, it seems that would be the only way I can contribute. Never modded myself so I can't contribute in that sense.  I can however offer support and encouragement to see this thing take off.

I'm fortunate that I have a good job, even during These Uncertain Times™, so I don't need donations to go on this - and there's no way I could get enough donations from this single mod to replace my job - so what I need most from people is engagement and feedback. The only thing that really motivates me is other people depending on me to do things.

[tasairis]

Yes, I'm definitely not editing Hert. I don't anticipate any reason to edit any NPC records, or really edit any existing records except for adding stuff to cells (unavoidable) - everything I can think of that I would want to "change" can be handled using the standard mechanism of quest aliases. I'm also not doing anything that should result in unclean saves if the mod is uninstalled abruptly.

[tasairis]

So update on 0.4. Obviously not done yet, so I'm going to pull a 3D Realms Star Citizen Projekt Red and say "it'll be done when it's done". But this last month of craziness is basically over so I should have more time again.

Progress is slow but it's still happening. Discovered that the engine can't do some things I thought it could, especially when it comes to evaluating magic effect and package conditions. Discovering more and more problems with female animal support across SexLab and other core LL mods that I'll probably have to stop and dig into at some point, preferably not soon. Had to do some other stuff now that I thought I could put off until at least v0.5.

 

Did solve the animals-opening-doors problem to a reasonable degree of satisfaction and that won't require quirks like that Animal SOS fix plugin, so that's nice.

 

I'll go into some more detail about the party.

Spoiler

- Supports male and female players

- Supports a single male or female follower

- Participating Companions are Skjor (if not... you know), Vilkas, Farkas, Athis, and Torvar (Kodlak finds the whole thing distasteful), and Aela, Njada, and Ria

- Male player/follower may be chosen to take an active role in the competition (randomly decided), or else can stand and watch

- Female player/follower can take an active role in the competition (but only one), or stand and watch

- Males and females are paired randomly, which creates more than 20,000 combinations of that

- Who loses and who wins is determined randomly with some customizable favoritism and modifiers

- 3 rounds at a minimum before a winner is determined, can be configured to go up to 6 (randomly chosen, favors more)

- Finale varies

- New: there are two "intermissions" possible, each occurring under certain conditions you can't control, so they'll mostly be a surprise

- Dedicated dialogue for damn near every combination of things so it shouldn't get old

Actually wanted to do a bit more, but I begrudgingly filed the rest of them under my todo list to add in later. At least one of them is a significant addition, but it's not crucial so it can wait.

[coffeeandcynicism]

22 hours ago, tasairis said:

I'm fortunate that I have a good job, even during These Uncertain Times™, so I don't need donations to go on this - and there's no way I could get enough donations from this single mod to replace my job - so what I need most from people is engagement and feedback. The only thing that really motivates me is other people depending on me to do things.

Well, thank goodness for that. I was about to resort to sending you unsolicited nekkid pictures*. Let me know who your boss is, and I'll write him/her a letter posing as a Person of Great Import explaining that your (paid) absence is required until further notice for a Top Secret mission to Make The Times™ More Certain. I know a few big words; I think I can pull it off.

*of someone much better-looking than myself

21 hours ago, tasairis said:

So update on 0.4. Obviously not done yet, so I'm going to pull a 3D Realms Star Citizen Projekt Red and say "it'll be done when it's done".

That's fine, but if TES6 ever comes out, you'll probably have to go back and change a bunch of stuff to account for the Oliphant of Hammerfell. Just sayin'...

Feeling motivated yet? 

[jxm]

On 11/30/2020 at 6:21 PM, tasairis said:

Yeah, innkeeper is a standard go-to. But do people actually talk to them? Only thing I ever want from them is a bed to sleep in...

Courier is cliché.

Talking animal is... different, but then I'd have to explain the talking animal. Maybe something that reuses Barbas. He's (half of) a Daedric Lord, and a dog, so it's not a stretch to imagine he'd be interested in pushing the player towards the Mansion. And that would set him up to be used for something else later, which seems like a really obvious thing to do.

 

Basically I have two criteria for this: (1) it's something simple that won't leave unanswered questions I have to deal with, and (2) it's something interesting. No luck so far, so I'm content to rely on the fact that people installing this mod are already going to know where the Mansion is.

 

 

Hm, so how to find the mansion? First,  I think hostlers would make more sense than inkeepers, if you would go that route to start the AM-Journey. Simple enough. Maybe boring.

 

However it could be done in quest-form maybe, one that kinda makes sense and foreshadows things, and already tells the player a little of Thaena or what to expect, without giving too much away - have a hostler give you a quest: "Wanna earn some money? So, I'll tell you a little story first, about my horses, all unruly and aggressive. Couldn't sell any of them. Couldn't afford a doctor either to look whats wrong, damn them. So this pretty lady comes by, tells me she could cure them easy enough, for hald the price those damn doctors wanted...figured she might be a witch or something. So I allowed her to be alone with one of my stallions. Dunno what she did, probably some magic tricks...but I tell you something, they were calm like a ... calmed horse, tell you that. And sold them all for good coin. Back in business. But I really want that lady's secret ... and if you bring it to me, I gonna pay you good...dunno where she went exactly...only that she muttered "finally enough for Falkreath" and so she went ..."

 

Still a bit boring maybe, but straight to the point enough I'd say, and themetically more in line than a random inkeeper. Some extra-effort: Have a random hostler only introduce the player to a hostler created for the mod, who gives the quest, and could be used in some capacity in a later stage for an additional quest - one maybe where he is upset the player never delivered on the promise of the "secret" or something...i hate if quests only introduce chars and then forget them ^^

 

The courier is indeed the only other real way to do it I am afraid, with the benefit that you do not have to go to someone specific on your own.

 

However - it does not need to be THE courier we all know and learned to loeathe. Mabye only the way he "works" but with a different character. For example, if the player enters a tavern, this triggers a random drunkard hitting on the player (I always assume female MCs...) - invite him to some drinks etc, and he tells you the tale of that weird woman in Falkreathe etc...something like that.

 

Or use the "real" courier-event/idea - but at least change it up? Or combine it with soome of the above, to cover it all? Courier: delivers a (wrongly adressed) letter to the player - pointing to a hostler nearby, pointing to the quest-giving hostler - all bases covered ^^

 

Personally - without knowing how much work it is to mod - from a storytelling-perspectve and in regards to coherence - my idea with a quest-giving hostler later picked up again might make for the "best" introduction. Especially because it might (hopefully) not even that much work - with the option to just abandon him in the story anyway if you have no idea how/when to use him, but he would always be an option for future quests/starting points etc

 

Longer than I wanted to write here actually ^^ Maybe some of it inspires you what to do (or NOT to do)

 

Haven't tried the alpha-mod so far, next release I'll have a look though to see where this is going. From the thread alone I like it already

 

[coffeeandcynicism]

Barbas: "Got something for you. Your eyes only..."
 

[tasairis]

9 hours ago, jxm said:

Hm, so how to find the mansion? First,  I think hostlers would make more sense than inkeepers, if you would go that route to start the AM-Journey. Simple enough. Maybe boring.

 

Slight problem here: the backstory to Thaena and the Mansion is already written and out there. It's covered in the very first quest. And while I'm not dead-set against any sort of changes, I've already done a lot of work and planning around those core concepts. Planning that already extends out beyond the troll quest...

In a nutshell, Thaena wants to run an inn but For Some Bizarre Reason things just don't seem to be working in her favor, and after Events Unfold, the player is the one who suggests to her to change to the Animal Mansion instead.

 

So in addition to the two restrictions I had, which were mainly about style and general feeling, there is a third one: it needs to fit within that narrative - or perhaps mostly within, and the necessary adjustments to align to it aren't too much. Namely, that (1) the Mansion isn't open for business yet, (2) Thaena isn't slutting herself around out there, and in fact (3) Thaena is somewhat shy to the whole concept, at least at first, so it will be up to the player to take the initiative in most situations.

 

There were a couple "obvious" main points that a revised introduction could make use of:

1. The fact that the inn is having problems (those buildings don't just pop up overnight so it's been in progress for a while)

2. A rumor about the woman running the inn (who has a history with her dog so it's possible she's slipped up once or twice in concealing their relationship)

 

Admittedly that's not a lot to work with, and I'd like to find some other ideas, but I haven't bothered to put much thought into it because my brain is more focused on things like Temba and her problems (which is mostly done, at which point I'll move on to an orc and his problems, and when that's done...).

I can't shake the feeling that there's a third "obvious" main point, and that it would lend itself much more easily to some sort of straightforward introductory plot I can shove the player into...

 

 

As for plot devices, that's really what the innkeeper and courier are: easy mechanisms for introducing the player to a plot. But they're too easy. Somewhere there's going to be a balance between simple and straightforward vs. new and exciting. Whatever this plot device is, its primary focus should be the simple act of getting the player to the Mansion, yet it needs to be more than just a random NPC approaching the player and giving them a map marker.

 

But a point that has been raised before, and one that I'm still considering, is that the introduction doesn't actually have to be simple and straightforward. What if there was an underlying plot throughout the first act of this mod (ie, the first 9 animal quests as seen in AM Plus) which is introduced at the start? I'm hesitant to think about it because I'm afraid there will be a great idea I just can't let go that will require redoing much of my existing planning. I know myself, and it's likely that I would get bogged down in that process until I was satisfied again. On the other hand, as things stand right now, each quest is pretty close to standalone, so the bulk of those those probably wouldn't have to change too much.

 

Sigh. I could keep going but my food is getting cold.

 

Point is, it's all more complicated than it has any reasonable business being. I've shackled myself with some limitations and I'm secretly hoping that there's a good way of bringing the player to Thaena that fits within those limitations, because if there is then the limitations aren't relevant anymore and I can sweep them under the rug.

 

The next next release (0.5) brings in a feature people will want, albeit in a limited way to start with, so I'll want to get that out sooner rather than later (lol and I'm still finishing 0.4). I've also accidentally planned out about 75% of its animal quest and I'd rather not sit on that for too long. So I'll revisit the introduction issue when I have that stuff mostly done. In the meantime, those limitations and restrictions are mainly for me to be stuck with - every idea is welcome, its imaginative and creative distinctiveness will be added to my own, resistance is futile (•_¤).

[monty359]

6 hours ago, tasairis said:

 

Slight problem here: the backstory to Thaena and the Mansion is already written and out there. It's covered in the very first quest. And while I'm not dead-set against any sort of changes, I've already done a lot of work and planning around those core concepts. Planning that already extends out beyond the troll quest...

In a nutshell, Thaena wants to run an inn but For Some Bizarre Reason things just don't seem to be working in her favor, and after Events Unfold, the player is the one who suggests to her to change to the Animal Mansion instead.

 

......

I like the story sofar and i think the introduction of the mansion to the player would be easy. here is an rough idea.

 

in the story thaena has some difficulties to get some items (food, beds and so on) to get started with her inn. So, when the player interacts with any traider (but not traider from Falkreath, like foodtraider, innkeeper or custom wares), the player could get a quest from the traider to bring a message (letter, wares or whatever) to thaena. The message could be just a refusal to sell to her because (insert reasons here).

 

i think there should be no rumors about thaena and her dog. a surprise in this regard is more natural, i think.

 

 

[tasairis]

11 hours ago, monty359 said:

in the story thaena has some difficulties to get some items (food, beds and so on) to get started with her inn. So, when the player interacts with any traider (but not traider from Falkreath, like foodtraider, innkeeper or custom wares), the player could get a quest from the traider to bring a message (letter, wares or whatever) to thaena. The message could be just a refusal to sell to her because (insert reasons here).

That could work. It might have to be limited to Falkreath Hold, in which case the trader can be a travelling merchant world event who has certain dialogue. And/or I can pull in Valga (innkeeper) and Lod (blacksmith) Bolund (lumber) since they already have a specific role in the first quest.

[monty359]

1 hour ago, tasairis said:

That could work. It might have to be limited to Falkreath Hold, in which case the trader can be a travelling merchant world event who has certain dialogue. And/or I can pull in Valga (innkeeper) and Lod (blacksmith) Bolund (lumber) since they already have a specific role in the first quest.

i thought more the opposite, not in Falcreath, because thaena will tell (told) the Player, that she did not get the items she need in falkreath, that is why she hat to ask the far away traider. from story perspective the player could get the quest just at the beginning in riverwood or whiterun (maybe limit it to riverwood and whiterun. Riverwood is the next town and whiterun is the nex capial)

 

usually on my playthroughs i need to sell stuff in riverwood, because of the starting quest, lots of loot. eventually you could tie it in to hod, if someone side with imperials, and the other female npc ( do not remember the name), in case the player sides with stormcloacs.

[tasairis]

29 minutes ago, monty359 said:

i thought more the opposite, not in Falcreath, because thaena will tell (told) the Player, that she did not get the items she need in falkreath, that is why she hat to ask the far away traider. from story perspective the player could get the quest just at the beginning in riverwood or whiterun (maybe limit it to riverwood and whiterun. Riverwood is the next town and whiterun is the nex capial)

 

usually on my playthroughs i need to sell stuff in riverwood, because of the starting quest, lots of loot. eventually you could tie it in to hod, if someone side with imperials, and the other female npc ( do not remember the name), in case the player sides with stormcloacs.

I was thinking about it in reverse: player finds the merchant/Valga/Bolund, who give some off-hand remark about the lady who is trying to buy from them. Valga in the inn for the people who ask her for a bed, Bolund... well, it made more sense with Lod, so perhaps Bolund's brother Whatshisname (who runs the general goods store and would be the one people buying/selling stuff talk to) might make the remark instead, and then the travelling merchant to get everyone else just running through the area.

 

I was thinking Falkreath only because everything she needs is nearby - she shouldn't have to go out to Whiterun or Markarth for supplies because Valga and Bolund should have everything, if only they would get around to selling to her.

And also because it felt like a bit of a stretch to have someone in Winterhold know about her inn and its troubles. I mean sure, Skyrim is one huge rumor mill, but "oh no, some lady is trying to open an inn somewhere but it isn't working out" is just so banal. Especially compared to wherever the latest dragon sighting was.

 

That said, I bet there's going to be some way or another to have a travelling merchant up in the area of Solitude or so know about it. I mean, they travel, they hear things. Maybe it's more of a rumor thing than a directed and deliberate comment. So that would make the travelling merchant be the primary mechanism, then Valga and Bolund/Theotherguy are bonuses.

 

edit: Solaf