The Ancient Profession 2024-06-24

[Grayc]

Thanks so much. I was able to proceed because of your directions. 

 

Cheers!

[NicoleDragoness]

Hi,

I'm still on LE and now I'm using the ported version 0.12.

It's always a very good mod and I wish to thank you for your work.

 

I have only one little problem atm: while in the old 0.9 SE version (converted by myself) the "Markarth's Stallion" quest started and ran smoothly, in this version it's not yet started, even if I completed the Dibella's Temple DG quests, the vanilla Fjotra quest and the Bothela's request (also vanilla).

I thought that maybe it needed some days but after almost a week in game nothing happened. Raerek, Bothela, Hamal or other NPCs don't have any related dialogue.

 

Could you help?

[ruddycray]

3 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

Hi,

I'm still on LE and now I'm using the ported version 0.12.

It's always a very good mod and I wish to thank you for your work.

 

I have only one little problem atm: while in the old 0.9 SE version (converted by myself) the "Markarth's Stallion" quest started and ran smoothly, in this version it's not yet started, even if I completed the Dibella's Temple DG quests, the vanilla Fjotra quest and the Bothela's request (also vanilla).

I thought that maybe it needed some days but after almost a week in game nothing happened. Raerek, Bothela, Hamal or other NPCs don't have any related dialogue.

 

Could you help?

 

Just as a starting point, did you start the game with TAP installed, or did you install mid-game?

 

I'm asking because that quest won't start if the vanilla quest has already been done by the time TAP is activated, as it can no longer reliably determine who you delivered the potion to.

Edited September 6, 2022 by ruddycray

[NicoleDragoness]

Installed mid game, enough early indeed.

Bothela's vanilla quest and the entire visit to Markarth started AFTER the installation of TAP.

 

Just a note:

I use a mod that entirely skips the "Season Unending" idiotic quest, letting me to be helped by Jarl Balgruf without the need of the truce.

So Markarth, in my game, will stay with the Imperial side forever, like Riften will stay on Stormcloaks side.

I am at the point in which I still need to ask help to Balgruf, but I've already completed the entire Dawnguard DLC because I use Serana Add-On.

Edited September 6, 2022 by NicoleDragoness

[ruddycray]

6 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

Installed mid game, enough early indeed.

Bothela's vanilla quest and the entire visit to Markarth started AFTER the installation of TAP.

 

Just a note:

I use a mod that entirely skips the "Season Unending" idiotic quest, letting me to be helped by Jarl Balgruf without the need of the truce.

So Markarth, in my game, will stay with the Imperial side forever, like Riften will stay on Stormcloaks side.

I am at the point in which I still need to ask help to Balgruf, but I've already completed the entire Dawnguard DLC because I use Serana Add-On.

 

I'll have to double check the conditions on the quest. It's very rare even in vanilla for the correct "stallion" not to be Raerek. Markarth would have to change hands I think before you ever even visited the city. But it is possible, and I do know I put some limitations on this quest to avoid inconsistencies.

[NicoleDragoness]

6 hours ago, ruddycray said:

Markarth would have to change hands I think before you ever even visited the city. But it is possible,

Skyrim is a open game with million of different paths, in fact.

The player could join the thieves guild just following the first steps of the main quest, deciding to complete the TG journey and that means to visit Markarth before.

If the problem is about conditions I could see whith TESEdit if I can change things myself, maybe?

[ruddycray]

5 hours ago, NicoleDragoness said:

Skyrim is a open game with million of different paths, in fact.

The player could join the thieves guild just following the first steps of the main quest, deciding to complete the TG journey and that means to visit Markarth before.

If the problem is about conditions I could see whith TESEdit if I can change things myself, maybe?

 

The only conditions on the quest are that it hasn't already been done and that the quest to bring the stallion potion to the steward is still running and on at least stage 10, which is just that Bothela has asked you to deliver the potion.

 

One other possibility is that something else is blocking the quest from being considered. This quest starts from the Story Manager on a Change Location event, so if anything else is higher up in the list that isn't marked as Shares Event, it might prevent this quest from running.

[Guest]

During the quest "Political Favor" after I have sex with Gisli, we're supposed to get caught and I guess a scene with dialogue is supposed to happen, but it doesnt. A servant appears in the door to the bedroom and her and Gisli just kind of stare at each other and walk around, with both being marked as "busy". Any reason for this? I already had a similar problem with a previous quest with the Khajiit outside Riften, where again no scene played. I just decided to fail that one and went through the questline up until this moment.

[Zukzukarr]

Damn, I've discovered this pretty late but it's awesome. Thank you!

[ruddycray]

2 hours ago, obamaslastname said:

During the quest "Political Favor" after I have sex with Gisli, we're supposed to get caught and I guess a scene with dialogue is supposed to happen, but it doesnt. A servant appears in the door to the bedroom and her and Gisli just kind of stare at each other and walk around, with both being marked as "busy". Any reason for this? I already had a similar problem with a previous quest with the Khajiit outside Riften, where again no scene played. I just decided to fail that one and went through the questline up until this moment.

 

Do you have fuz ro doh installed? Scenes normally only hang up if something that they're waiting for doesn't happen, but I also think they can be thrown off by silent audio.

[Zukzukarr]

Is there a list of all available quests?

[Hakuna_Matata]

A few humble suggestions.

 

First: Give me a way to feed as succubus without killing people.

 

Maybe give the victim a 24h 15% max health debuff instead of killing them.

Make it a perk for balancing!

 

I don't know if there is canon succubus lore about this but I think a succubus should be able to feed off of having sex, not just off of killing people.

You probably already broke lore by allowing feeding off of animals, even rabbits. ?

 

Not even a vampire has to kill their victims to feed!

Also, comparing the pros and cons of being a succubus with being a vampire, I think the buffs are way too small.

In fact I think it should be that if you are well fed you get a buff, the penalties should only start after you starve for a while.

 

Speaking of penalties. Serana stayed underground for hundreds of years without dying from it.

I think the penalties of being a succubus are way too harsh in this mod.

You could compensate by buffing the level cap on deadly seduce the more starving you get, and then allowing a starving succubus to force-feed on a bandit that wants to attack it?

 

I think there should be pros and cons, just like Sacrosanct does with vampires.

The more you starve the stronger your powers, but the harsher the downsides.

Vampires get growing weakness to fire. Succubi are described as warm blooded demons, so they should get a weakness to frost maybe?

[Guest]

On 9/7/2022 at 9:08 PM, ruddycray said:

 

Do you have fuz ro doh installed? Scenes normally only hang up if something that they're waiting for doesn't happen, but I also think they can be thrown off by silent audio.

I have it installed. I have all the required mods. I bypassed it by advancing the quest stage further. Does the Benjen storyline end after the quest?

[shiagwen]

No brothel in Markath ?

[ruddycray]

On 9/8/2022 at 7:03 AM, Zukzukarr said:

Is there a list of all available quests?

 

It's a little outdated, but I did make one here: 

 

[ruddycray]

On 9/8/2022 at 10:38 AM, Hakuna_Matata said:

A few humble suggestions.

 

First: Give me a way to feed as succubus without killing people.

 

Maybe give the victim a 24h 15% max health debuff instead of killing them.

Make it a perk for balancing!

 

I don't know if there is canon succubus lore about this but I think a succubus should be able to feed off of having sex, not just off of killing people.

You probably already broke lore by allowing feeding off of animals, even rabbits. ?

 

Not even a vampire has to kill their victims to feed!

Also, comparing the pros and cons of being a succubus with being a vampire, I think the buffs are way too small.

In fact I think it should be that if you are well fed you get a buff, the penalties should only start after you starve for a while.

 

Speaking of penalties. Serana stayed underground for hundreds of years without dying from it.

I think the penalties of being a succubus are way too harsh in this mod.

You could compensate by buffing the level cap on deadly seduce the more starving you get, and then allowing a starving succubus to force-feed on a bandit that wants to attack it?

 

I think there should be pros and cons, just like Sacrosanct does with vampires.

The more you starve the stronger your powers, but the harsher the downsides.

Vampires get growing weakness to fire. Succubi are described as warm blooded demons, so they should get a weakness to frost maybe?

 

I'll consider your suggestions as I make updates. I don't believe there's any real lore about succubi. The closest thing is the Daedra Seducer, but I don't think it's the same thing, so I'm really just making up my own lore.

[ruddycray]

10 hours ago, obamaslastname said:

I have it installed. I have all the required mods. I bypassed it by advancing the quest stage further. Does the Benjen storyline end after the quest?

 

There are no more Benjen quests for now after Political Favor. It is not normal for any scene to fail to finish, let alone more than one. Really the only things that can make that happen are if something is preventing a required action for the scene from happening.

[ruddycray]

9 hours ago, shiagwen said:

No brothel in Markath ?

 

Not yet. There will probably be one eventually.

[ecobotstar]

3 hours ago, ruddycray said:

 

Not yet. There will probably be one eventually.

I feel like it could be a "branch" off of the temple of Dibella.

[Hakuna_Matata]

6 hours ago, ruddycray said:

 

I'll consider your suggestions as I make updates. I don't believe there's any real lore about succubi. The closest thing is the Daedra Seducer, but I don't think it's the same thing, so I'm really just making up my own lore.

 

Now I had to google it. ?

 

So apparently the concept of the succubus goes back to a notorious book from the Inquisition, the Malleus maleficarum.

It described a female demon that goes to sleeping men and eats their sperm. The threat was not killing the men but making them impotent. Also apparently an incubus could then use the sperm stolen by a friendly succubus to impregnate females, who would then birth deformed children.

 

The idea of demons of this type goes back to mesopotamia, where the demons haunt males in their sleep. Also no killing.

 

There is also a link to jewish mythology: Lilith, the first wife of Adam.

 

English Wikipedia has this hilarious paragraph:

 

Throughout history, priests and rabbis, including Hanina Ben Dosa and Abaye, tried to curb the power of succubi over humans.^[9] However, not all succubi were malevolent. According to Walter Map in the satire De Nugis Curialium (Trifles of Courtiers), Pope Sylvester II (999–1003) was allegedly involved with a succubus named Meridiana, who helped him achieve his high rank in the Catholic Church. Before his death, he confessed of his sins and died repentant.^[10]

 

So basically succubus lore is not about killing men but feeding upon them so that they would be fatigued and maybe impotent.

 

It may be worth noting that D&D has a succubus monster as well: https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17027-succubus

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Succubus

 

For them the main threat is charming victims.

It's about feeding on people, not killing them.

 

 

With your succubus concept and lore it makes perfect sense to kill victims, though.

Sacrosanct has a system for vampires where you can feed upon victims or drain them dead, in which case your vampire progression is stronger.

You could do the same thing with succubi. Regular feeding is enough to ward off the hunger but you can't level progress without killing?

Edited September 10, 2022 by Hakuna_Matata

[ruddycray]

18 hours ago, Hakuna_Matata said:

 

Now I had to google it. ?

 

So apparently the concept of the succubus goes back to a notorious book from the Inquisition, the Malleus maleficarum.

It described a female demon that goes to sleeping men and eats their sperm. The threat was not killing the men but making them impotent. Also apparently an incubus could then use the sperm stolen by a friendly succubus to impregnate females, who would then birth deformed children.

 

The idea of demons of this type goes back to mesopotamia, where the demons haunt males in their sleep. Also no killing.

 

There is also a link to jewish mythology: Lilith, the first wife of Adam.

 

English Wikipedia has this hilarious paragraph:

 

Throughout history, priests and rabbis, including Hanina Ben Dosa and Abaye, tried to curb the power of succubi over humans.^[9] However, not all succubi were malevolent. According to Walter Map in the satire De Nugis Curialium (Trifles of Courtiers), Pope Sylvester II (999–1003) was allegedly involved with a succubus named Meridiana, who helped him achieve his high rank in the Catholic Church. Before his death, he confessed of his sins and died repentant.^[10]

 

So basically succubus lore is not about killing men but feeding upon them so that they would be fatigued and maybe impotent.

 

It may be worth noting that D&D has a succubus monster as well: https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17027-succubus

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Succubus

 

For them the main threat is charming victims.

It's about feeding on people, not killing them.

 

 

With your succubus concept and lore it makes perfect sense to kill victims, though.

Sacrosanct has a system for vampires where you can feed upon victims or drain them dead, in which case your vampire progression is stronger.

You could do the same thing with succubi. Regular feeding is enough to ward off the hunger but you can't level progress without killing?

 

Just so you know, one of my original ideas when I first added the succubus system was that I might eventually make a way to partially cure yourself, where you can keep the powers but don't have to kill, so I'm not opposed to the idea.

 

I'm not too concerned with real-life succubus concepts. Skyrim vampires don't follow "true" vampire lore (as much as there is such a thing). But the fact that there isn't really any establish Elder Scrolls lore for the succubus that I can find means I can pretty much do what I want without it feeling against the idea of the game. I just want to make sure the mechanics are all right to play.

[Highborn]

I noticed that some of the brothels are incompatible with some mods that I use that changes the exterior areas of the cities. I know I can easily disable them, since I only use the one from Solitude. But I wonder if you plan on integrating the brothels into some future quest? I'd rather keep them 'separated', since I can select one brothel and delete the incompatible ones with my load order.

 

 

[ruddycray]

1 hour ago, Highborn said:

I noticed that some of the brothels are incompatible with some mods that I use that changes the exterior areas of the cities. I know I can easily disable them, since I only use the one from Solitude. But I wonder if you plan on integrating the brothels into some future quest? I'd rather keep them 'separated', since I can select one brothel and delete the incompatible ones with my load order.

 

 

 

I don't have anything definite, but it is likely that the Dibella's Garden and Benjen quest lines will require things to happen at the brothels.

[Highborn]

On 9/11/2022 at 12:52 AM, ruddycray said:

 

I don't have anything definite, but it is likely that the Dibella's Garden and Benjen quest lines will require things to happen at the brothels.

 

I see. Well, that's not a big isse. Speaking of brothels, I feel like Benjen's new brothel could get a sign post like the Dibella's Garden, but I guess this might be in your plans already.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Highborn

[ruddycray]

4 hours ago, Highborn said:

 

I see. Well, that's not a big isse. Speaking of brothels, I feel like Benjen's new brothel could get a sign post like the Dibella's Garden, but I guess this might be in your plans already.

 

It is, but I don't know for sure when I'll get around to it.