TamagoClub 1.15c / HiyokoClub1.10a stuff ENG

[varenne]

Hmmm... An ini. That certainly sounds like it has potential to fix both causes of this. I think it could also make it a whole hell of a lot easier to extend it too; more types of Hiyoko children based on their actual parents.

[fejeena]

In HiyokoGeneratorBroodMother.esp the searches creatures data is via the script, but I think most People can or will not change a script.

In a ini could be the custom race esp and entries for hair which are to be used for men or women or both. No hair entries in the ini = random Hair selection out of all race hair.

If People are lazy they must only add the custom race esp in the ini.

 

( I add rabbits and pigs in the HiyokoGeneratorBroodMother script)

 

[Supierce]

In HiyokoGeneratorBroodMother.esp the searches creatures data is via the script, but I think most People can or will not change a script.

In a ini could be the custom race esp and entries for hair which are to be used for men or women or both. No hair entries in the ini = random Hair selection out of all race hair.

If People are lazy they must only add the custom race esp in the ini.

 

( I add rabbits and pigs in the HiyokoGeneratorBroodMother script)

Does this mean we can use HGBM now to eliminate the missing head problem (by editing the script)?

[fejeena]

No. HiyokoGeneratorBroodMother checkes folders

e.g. ModelPathIncludes "\Dog\"

and for Special Dogs in the dog Folder: ar_Find "d_collie.nif" arPaths

Not sure if I can add a custom race Folder e.g. ModelPathIncludes "\Blood Elf\" 

And if there are more than one race in same Folder: e.g. SirensAndTritons Mod (10 races) has only one meshes Folder but many textures Folders.

It must be a esp and a Editor ID check. e.g A Southern Siren must be "AsharasSirensAndTritons.esp" and ID "SouthernSiren". Or a Vanilla Orc must be "Oblivion.esm" and "Orc".

[movomo]

Creatures and NPCs work a bit differently.

You know.. NPC faces are.. diverse. They don't work as simply as placing an instance of base object which is how creatures are placed in the world. There must be several~many pre-made npc face templates, and they must be cloned. (HGBM clones them too afaik, but anyway)

Even if you make a stand-alone new hiyoko generator, you're not gonna get away from the load order problem.

 

*anyway, OP updated with fixed ini again.*

[varenne]

What if HiyokoGenerator was instead an ESM, moved up higher in the LO, and then use the ini approach? I think it was Justinof that had mentioned something along these lines a number of posts back. That would address both root causes of this bug; changing LO position of the ESP or directly editing the ESP itself.

 

Some of what is being mentioned here reads a lot like PerfectionCat's approach with the Child Database.

[movomo]

The cause is not there I think. When you reorder your master files, say, MBP, those cloned hiyokos that were relying on MBP race records would lost the information. Apparently they are like "frozen" so they aren't able to resolve mod index changes.

So what if you pack every race into the hiyoko generator instead of borrowing them from MBP or others, it *may* get worse. MBP is a master file, so you hardly ever change its index. But hiyoko generator is just an esp and most likely at the bottom of anyone's load order. Any change on the number of mods above it could affect hiyokos. If h.g is an esm... well, better and worse. better because you won't change its index too often and worse because you have one more esm file.

 

What I see as a solution is to use blockhead. I was thinking I'd make scripted head changing some day so they never miss the head and they can grow.

Never been fulfilled until now because I'm a lazy bastard.

[varenne]

But hiyoko generator is just an esp and most likely at the bottom of anyone's load order. Any change on the number of mods above it could affect hiyokos.

 

Yes, I agree that is the most common root cause of this. But there is, in my experience a secondary or tertiary cause and that is when you edit certain things in the HiyokoGenerator.esp itself, or worse the masters it is referencing. That data (resource path locations) is what is being stored in the save game.

 

Right now I'm going through each and every MOD ESM/ESP I have installed and enabled, checking for bad EIDs; those with numbers at the beginning. (I highly recommend this for anyone to do as the improvement to FPS is quite significant).

 

Once I finish that I'll more than likely start experimenting with an improvement for this. I doubt my approach will have anything to do with Blockhead though. I do see the potential there, after reviewing what you did with Tamago Setbody, but I'm being stubborn. Even I can be resistant to change, from time to time.

[Swanky]

Okay I'm having a question about pregnancy CTDs. My TamagoNews always acted a little... wonky in the way it showed messages; however, now that my character has become pregnant and I had to solve a few setbody issues (somebody should clean those install guides up sometime...), everything is seemingly working fine, setbodies, clothes, even the HUD. For testing purposes my character waited until the third trimester began. During those waitsessions a message popped up twice that I would have become pregnant - and the game CTD'ed each time. The message came up at different days / stages of the pregnancy. I reloaded, checked for ovums / sperm, neither had been in my inventory. Now I wonder why it would give me the message in the first place, and why it's crashing. How can I track those?

€ Nevermind, the pregnancy message may not be linked to the crash but be a direct problem of TamagoNews. It seems more likely that one of the setbody states or the wait time /load time after waiting itself is causing the crash, not the link to Tamago (which is working fine, a healthy... thing had been born and killed shortly after at day 20).

As I am writing this, where can I get the latest version of TamagoNews? The one in the tamago resources is the one giving me trouble.

[varenne]

All of the tested and latest of any MOD is more than likely in the first page of posts.

 

On another note

 

(somebody should clean those install guides up sometime...)

The member, Somebody much like Someone has left the building, much like Elvis. And it's not like either one ever contributed a bloody thing, always wanting to pass the buck to member SomeOneElse, who by the way has also left the building, due to everyone wanting to pass the buck to them.

 

 The only way things get done, fixed, improved, enhanced, etc. is when a member just does it and then posts it.

[movomo]

Definitely somebody must do something. Somebody who's currently maintaining setbody. Somebody who's in charge of tamago setbody. Somebody who's... oh stop that. making myself miserable.

So I guess I'm the somebody here... I'd appreciate if you could be more specific and tell me which part of the setbody / tamagosetbody install guide is confusing. Or were you just refering to the whole tamagoclub?

 

In my opinion it's very unlikely that setbody is giving you a headache.. unless it's crashing with a particular body type. Tamago setbody can be a problem unlike that, if you ever use that with break armor I'm not one hundred percent certain that it's bulletproof. Never crashed for me so far, though.

If you just can't specify the culprit, try starting from the basic. Only tamagoclub and see if it crashes, then plus tamagosetbody and see if it crashes, then plus tamago news and see, and so forth. Should be possible as your game is apparently crashing on some fixed event.

[rghost]

I only had heavy CTD's with autosetbody enabled. My error was caused by the oblivion engine's memory management.

To much different meshes for the poor engine. Problem is now solved by installing

- Oblivion Stutter Remover v4.1.37  (FPS Management disabled, HEAP Management enabled)  -> primary heap

- More Heap v1.1 -> secondary HEAP

- Windom Earle_s Oblivion Crash Prevention System (weOCPS) 2009_03_28

- ENBoost v0.259 patch with memory reducing feature

 

The game is now running incredible fast and rarely CTD's. I have 20 followers following me at the same time.

 

[varenne]

I only had heavy CTD's with autosetbody enabled. My error was caused by the oblivion engine's memory management.

To much different meshes for the poor engine. Problem is now solved by installing

- Oblivion Stutter Remover v4.1.37  (FPS Management disabled, HEAP Management enabled)  -> primary heap

- More Heap v1.1 -> secondary HEAP

- Windom Earle_s Oblivion Crash Prevention System (weOCPS) 2009_03_28

- ENBoost v0.259 patch with memory reducing feature

 

The game is now running incredible fast and rarely CTD's. I have 20 followers following me at the same time.

 

Very interesting, and thanks for this. Adding it to my list of optimization tools & fixes. I have most of those already installed and/or downloaded, maybe I'll install the others now.

 

Curious, since you have FPS Management disabled what level of FPS are you seeing?

[rghost]

 

I only had heavy CTD's with autosetbody enabled. My error was caused by the oblivion engine's memory management.

To much different meshes for the poor engine. Problem is now solved by installing

- Oblivion Stutter Remover v4.1.37  (FPS Management disabled, HEAP Management enabled)  -> primary heap

- More Heap v1.1 -> secondary HEAP

- Windom Earle_s Oblivion Crash Prevention System (weOCPS) 2009_03_28

- ENBoost v0.259 patch with memory reducing feature

 

The game is now running incredible fast and rarely CTD's. I have 20 followers following me at the same time.

 

Very interesting, and thanks for this. Adding it to my list of optimization tools & fixes. I have most of those already installed and/or downloaded, maybe I'll install the others now.

 

Curious, since you have FPS Management disabled what level of FPS are you seeing?

 

FPS Management modifies the game time flow. I don't want something like this. I don't know how much the FPS really is, but if my 20 followers masturbate at the same time, it runs smooth now. I can cheat the PC moving speed to max and if I run through Oblivion, it's fast and smooth. Menus are fast, loading times are much lower, thanks to Oblivion Stutter Remover v4.1.37 HEAP management replacer.

 

I have Streamline_3dot1_Open_Beta, too.

 

[varenne]

I was just curious as anything on a 'normal' vidcard above 55-60 FPS will usually begin to CTD often. I know of only one member using a 3d card (the one that you use 3d glasses with) that can run at 100FPS and not CTD.

 

I didn't have much luck with getting Streamline working, so far. I may revisit that at some point too.

 

So far I have:

OSR_4-1-35-23208-4-1-35

More Heap v1.1

weOCPS

FastExit 2-22410

 

And I've been meaning to try out Purger-45033-2-0.

 

[rghost]

I was just curious as anything on a 'normal' vidcard above 55-60 FPS will usually begin to CTD often. I know of only one member using a 3d card (the one that you use 3d glasses with) that can run at 100FPS and not CTD.

 

I didn't have much luck with getting Streamline working, so far. I may revisit that at some point too.

 

So far I have:

OSR_4-1-35-23208-4-1-35

More Heap v1.1

weOCPS

FastExit 2-22410

 

And I've been meaning to try out Purger-45033-2-0.

My TFT monitor has 60Hz. Enabling vsync and the FPS will not go over 60.

 

Streamline and Purger are similar and should not be used together.

Streamline is not compatible with mods which change FPS -> OSR FPS management disabled.

And Streamline has the autosave feature.

I don't need Fast Exit, because I have no exit problems with Oblivion. Perhabs it is fixed with on of the other mods.

My oblivion.exe is patched for 4GB RAM.

 

[varenne]

The 4GB patch was one of the first I ran, since I knew about it before I played Oblivion.

 

Well I scratch Streamline off as I do prefer OSR FPS Management. Autosave as in Auto save game? Another feature I have turned off so no loss there.

 

I have always turned off vsync too. I find older games seem to run better with it off.

[varenne]

Evil Hiyoko Discussion

So I'm back to messing around a bit with my custom HiyokoGenerator and have been contemplating the mechanics involved in creating evil or bad Hiyokos. You know, those produced by evil or bad faction parents. 

 

Adding new Hiyokos isn't  that hard, just a bit tedious. So I'm working on one for each vanilla race.

I know one MOD also has a function that a % chance that the Hiyoko will inherit one or both of the parents factions, or some of them, but I forget which one. What I would want to then change is instead of % based chance and only partial or some, to all and having one dominate over others.

 

Examples would be bandits, marauders, and most especially vampires. Currently Hiyokos born to any of these last, oh about all of 5 seconds, mostly killed by their own parents. Issue I believe is evil/bad factions not being inherited by the Hiyokos. Disposition inheritance would be a whole other matter, or would it?

 

So if two bandit parents, they should IMO also be 100% bandit Hiyokos. If one bandit, one 'other' race, it could be % based. They still potentially end up dead rather quick, but a form of population control I guess. Both vampire parents, again 100% vampire Hiyoko, no matter the vanilla race. And with one vampire parent have it be dominant and transfer to the Hiyoko. Again it could also be % based, but they too wouldn't last very long around a vampire parent, if that is where they are born.

 

Thoughts, ideas anyone?

 

 

[Supierce]

Evil Hiyoko Discussion

...

Thoughts, ideas anyone?

I think it's a great idea and badly needed. I know Hiyoko Genetics doesn't have anything like that (and it should). I don't know about HiyokoFutureDream.

 

Hiyoko Generator does have a a3hgcInheritHiyokoFaction function and a a3hg.InheritFaction variable, so maybe you could start there. It's definitely needed.

[WappyOne]

The basic HiyokoGenerator inherits all factions from mother, which can be a bit tiresome as one errant weapon swing and suddenly you're kicked from the Fighter, Mage, and Thief guilds for killing a faction member.

 

For HGBM I set up inheritance a bit differently, at least for the player/companions. Only player faction is inherited when mother is in the player faction... BUT father's factions are also inheritied if he is present at the time of birth.

 

Might be a starting point for what you are looking to do:

 

if ( Mother.GetInFaction PlayerFaction )
   hiyo.SetFactionRank PlayerFaction 0
   if ( IsFormValid FatherGene )
      if ( FatherGene.GetInFaction PlayerFaction == 0 && FatherGene.GetInSameCell Mother )
         Call a3hgbmInheritFaction hiyo FatherGene
      endif
   endif
endif

 

[varenne]

The basic HiyokoGenerator inherits all factions from mother, which can be a bit tiresome as one errant weapon swing and suddenly you're kicked from the Fighter, Mage, and Thief guilds for killing a faction member.

 

Yes exactly and part of what I'd like to address too. And I do feel it is HGBM functions that I'd like to try and extend into NPC breeding.

 

How is a3hgbmInheritFaction different than the ones pointed out by Supierce; a3hgcInheritHiyokoFaction function and a a3hg.InheritFaction?

 

I'm not only looking at doing this as simply as possible, but also with wide spectrum compatibility too.

 

The other script work needing a deep review is the parent vs. hiyoko selection statements. I know a ways back another member looked into it and I discovered the same issue. Certain hiyokos seem to end up dominate or more often occurring. I'm sure it's just a matter of looking at how they are selected and extending it beyond just simple IF/THEN/ELSE statements.

 

I'll look into this after I finish my Vampire Hunting script editing. I wanted to drastically increase the number of respawning vampires first.

 

 

I also feel some very simple MODs like LoversEncounter, maybe others could be merged together, then controlled via ini files, maybe shared or merged inis too. That would or could minimize the impact to adding/enabling MODs above the HiyokoGenerator, which is the root cause of headless Hiyokos.

[movomo]

That is a good idea I think. It's always good to have more diversity.

 

But..I'll have to check this out, but the chances are that an evil hiyoko from an evil familiy is nigh impossible to happen.

Because, if someone is evil he/she is most likely an enemy, thus dynamic, respawning, and not persistent (unless very important enemy). And once the player gets out of the cell, they are purged. They are there unless the cell is actually reset, but can't be referenced from a script. I doubt if Tamagoclub would give those temporary-troublemakers any extra care.

 

so.. can they normally get pregnant? I've never seen such thing so far. I had tried to impregnate my temporary slave several times before. They get a womb, ovum, but never been to actual pregnancy stage. How about you? Have you ever succeeded in such thing?

[Strec]

Adding new Hiyokos isn't  that hard, just a bit tedious. So I'm working on one for each vanilla race.

 

Why don't you integrate the system made in this one (http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18210-perfectioncats-mods/), if PerfectionCat permits it?

 

If all future Hiyoko generator use the same system it will permit to separate the children developpement from the generators development.

 

My 2p

 

 

[varenne]

That is a good idea I think. It's always good to have more diversity.

 

But..I'll have to check this out, but the chances are that an evil hiyoko from an evil familiy is nigh impossible to happen.

Because, if someone is evil he/she is most likely an enemy, thus dynamic, respawning, and not persistent (unless very important enemy). And once the player gets out of the cell, they are purged. They are there unless the cell is actually reset, but can't be referenced from a script. I doubt if Tamagoclub would give those temporary-troublemakers any extra care.

 

so.. can they normally get pregnant? I've never seen such thing so far. I had tried to impregnate my temporary slave several times before. They get a womb, ovum, but never been to actual pregnancy stage. How about you? Have you ever succeeded in such thing?

 

Yes, it (my Tamago/Hiyoko setup) did produce a bandit offspring a number of times, but usually they are already dead when I happen upon them. As I recall LoversEncounter is an absolute must, so that you get bandit to bandit, etc. pairings.

 

And yes, I'm aware of the limits of temporary (virtual actors) in Oblivion and producing Hiyokos. I have also had guards which are also temporary actors produce Hiyokos. I had to go so far as to use the contraceptive function on them or they'd end up out producing my PC and all other NPCs in-game. If they can produce Hiyokos, I don't see why other virtual NPCs cannot, unless it is some functionality limit imposed on evil ones via Oblivion. I don't think it is. I think due to the inherited good factions from Mommy, they just end up dead quicker. Much like the Hiyokos drowning if they are born in or near water, and their AI has them swim, they are shorter and lower in the water, so they drown. My fix was to give all of my reference Hiyokos in HiyokoGenerator a Water Breathing ability at birth, which is not perfect but it works for now.

 

One work around that I may test is to move away from trying to impregnate virtual, temporary actors to having my own named bandits, marauders, vampires, etc. I've been testing with two named vampires from Vampire Hunting, Strange Lihla and Strange Lisa. I have to dble check but I do not think they are virtual actors. If they actually do produce Hiyokos it could be a start. Still researching it in-game.

 

I have also had Hiyokos produced from some of the other named vampires from Vampire Hunting, I rec'd a print to screen message that such and such NPC had my child. I just didn't get there in time to see it or save it from being killed by nearby NPCs or creatures. So it may be that we cannot produce NPC to NPC evil Hiyokos, but instead it needs to be PC to NPC. Still in my discovery phase for all of this.

[varenne]

 

Adding new Hiyokos isn't  that hard, just a bit tedious. So I'm working on one for each vanilla race.

 

Why don't you integrate the system made in this one (http://www.loverslab.com/topic/18210-perfectioncats-mods/), if PerfectionCat permits it?

 

If all future Hiyoko generator use the same system it will permit to separate the children developpement from the generators development.

 

My 2p

 

 

I have tried to make sense of PerfectionCat's Child database and set of MODs, but the translation makes it that much harder to understand how to use it all.

 

As I recall from my review of it a year or more ago, it also requires individual ESPs for each custom race that you want a Hiyoko for.

 

If you are making progress on using those MODs, please feel free to report on it and an approach others may be able to make use of. What is IMO needed is a rewrite of the readme files so we can make better sense of the functionality, features and how to set it all up. I had started looking into that but dropped it when I discovered the need for individual race ESPs. That's not something I wanted to pursue at that time.

 

The only thing I am not open to at this time is anything that requires the use of Blockhead, as that would require me to drop certain MODs that either Blockhead is not compatible with, or MODs that Blockhead needs that are not compatible with some of my currently enable MODs. I looked at it a while back and that is what I remember.