FPS ,the Great FO4 Myth?

[maddadicusrex]

As long as I have been playing FO4 on the PC (1 YEAR), I was warned early about FPS and not having enough of it to play a stutter free game. Played by all the rules ,ignoring certain mods that carried gamer implied FPS warnings, etc. Just the other day, I found out in a posting that Steam, all this time had a FPS counter that could be installed. Did it and found my "perfect game", was only running 24 FPS out of a 30 FPS limit? Folks were always talking about 60 FPS as a standard limit? Played with my resolution through NVIDIA and got 60 FPS limit, which now dropped to a 17 FPS average in game. I presently run with 6 plus, "Performance" mods to get that 17 FPS. I lean toward "Plug and Play" types, since I am not PC fluent enough or comfortable enough to go into game files and handtype stuff to change INIs and other things, as most "Performance" mods advocate. Bottom line is that my game does not stutter or crash and burn. I have dynamic graphics and smooth gameplay at 17 FPS. So what is up with FPS being the beast to slay, if you want to play any game...Also, I assume the mods I use to help FPS work as advertised. Would appreciate your thoughts on these..............................Boston FPS Fix...If there are ckunkers here, please let me know. Truth is, when I test them one by one, my FPS does not change much.

                                Insignificent Object Remover

                                No Borders

                                Lights Remover

                                Shadow Boost

                                Max Performance

                                Dynamic Performance

[PvtAdorable]

Depending on a mod, they really might not be really making much difference. What kind of specs does your PC have as that is, quite obviously, the most important factor.

[maddadicusrex]

52 minutes ago, PvtAdorable said:

Depending on a mod, they really might not be really making much difference. What kind of specs does your PC have as that is, quite obviously, the most important factor.

I am using NVIDIA to set my game system options. Not sure if that is good or bad. Do these settings overwrite the settings we can create in game file?

[Di3sIrae]

Hah your specs are just like mine, 16 ram and i7 4790, but a R9 Fury X.
I must say, i like to play with lots of mods, good graphics and etc. My ENB is a bit heavy (Improved and Expanded Everything II).

I also use some mods for performance, like Boston FPS Fix (i like this one), and optimized vanilla textures (with my texture replacers on top of it).
It all depends on how people want to play. I like to have fun in my game, play it as i like with the mods and roleplay my character, feeling as if i was in her place.
I'm seeing the game run from 24 to 30 fps now (used to be more, don't know what changed, and don't see much difference anyway). But it is smooth most of the time, and i have a few crashes (restart computer or clear memory cache seen to help a lot with these, meaning i can play for hours without crashes - of course there's the ocasional engine overload).

 

For some, what we think is smooth and stutterless is actually wonky and impossible to play. Because they like to play FO4 like CS, or DOOM, fast paced and if the camera takes a bit to turn, then the game is unplayable.
Then there are those who say "i can only play FO4 with 120 fps", and there is that "FO4 should be tied to 60 for physics to work", and the ones "physics work with 90 fps".
In the end i guess what really matters is if you are having fun with the game. There are lots of ways to optimize the game for your computer spec. If you like action, then don't use graphical mods and enb and game will run nice with your combat mods and extra spaws and everything.
Want the game beautiful? Then don't install a lot of scripted mods, combat mods and such, and the game will run fine.

Mix everything, and there's my case, low fps, a few crashes, some slowdows, sometimes game runs great, some times wonky, but i'm happy with it and having LOTS of fun XD

[PvtAdorable]

What's the GPU ? Processor is one thing. (that alone would run the game awfully)

 

Settings through Nvidia are usually quite awful. Its better to set them manually through the FO4 launcher and also disable godray, those dont look good and eat performance.

[maddadicusrex]

1 hour ago, PvtAdorable said:

What's the GPU ? Processor is one thing. (that alone would run the game awfully)

 

Settings through Nvidia are usually quite awful. Its better to set them manually through the FO4 launcher and also disable godray, those dont look good and eat performance.

I often wondered about Nvidia. If I change my settings in the FO4 launcher, will this overwrite anything set through Nvidia?

[PvtAdorable]

Yes it will. Also what kind of graphics card do you have ?

[maddadicusrex]

3 hours ago, PvtAdorable said:

Yes it will. Also what kind of graphics card do you have ?

Attached.........I have a 30hertz limit as setup by Nvidia with a 60hertz option but at reduced resolution..if that makes sense?

[Di3sIrae]

4 hours ago, PvtAdorable said:

also disable godray

I like godrays and this seens to do the trick with performance issues. I remember when i tried to add 2 bat files to the ini and this one was not loading. I was getting some stutters and slow game until i executed the bat, so it works, at least for me.

[maddadicusrex]

Right now, I am ignoring Nvidia settings and running everything through FO4 options. Decided I love the enhanced sharpness at 3840 x 2160  with general settings at low. Found an extra 5 plus FPS and am running at a robust 20 - 24 FPS now..

[walkin]

1 hour ago, maddadicusrex said:

Right now, I am ignoring Nvidia settings and running everything through FO4 options. Decided I love the enhanced sharpness at 3840 x 2160  with general settings at low. Found an extra 5 plus FPS and am running at a robust 20 - 24 FPS now..

Hey whats up. Long time no talk. Ive been working around the clock and haven't had any time to even log in here. Im amazed youre still playing and still as active as you are. Not that theres anything wrong with that, just surprised. I remember when I first helped you to get AAF finally going I said don't worry you'll be bored soon enough and wont care. Guess I was wrong. Lol. I would love to stay more in tune and continue to help people but Im so far out of touch with everything now, I don't even know if I'd know what I was talking about any more. Lol. Anywho just thought I'd say hey. I'll be back when the next game that's any good and worth modding comes out, but until then have a good one and I'll shout at you later.

[Varithina]

15 hours ago, maddadicusrex said:

Right now, I am ignoring Nvidia settings and running everything through FO4 options. Decided I love the enhanced sharpness at 3840 x 2160  with general settings at low. Found an extra 5 plus FPS and am running at a robust 20 - 24 FPS now..

This may or may not help but what refresh rate does your monitor support at that resolution? If it is the same as mine the max refresh rate at that resolution for me is 30fps.  It might be what is causing the low fps.

 

If you are not sure go into the nvidia control panel and choose the change resolution option, that should show the various resolutions and what refresh rate they can be used at from the monitor itself.

[maddadicusrex]

52 minutes ago, Varithina said:

This may or may not help but what refresh rate does your monitor support at that resolution? If it is the same as mine the max refresh rate at that resolution for me is 30fps.  It might be what is causing the low fps.

 

If you are not sure go into the nvidia control panel and choose the change resolution option, that should show the various resolutions and what refresh rate they can be used at from the monitor itself.

Mine says 30 through the Nvidia G-Force filter. Nvidia offers me a 60 option but with a serious hit to grapnics. Funny is that if I set my resolution to 1910 x 1080 (?) I am capped at 30, but if I play at 3840 x 2160, I can hit a 60 max..If that makes sense.  I am not a PC head, been only gaming with, for a year.. My issue with G-Force is that it really downgrades my gaming experiance with recomended settings that underplay the specs of my computer. IMHO

[Varithina]

10 hours ago, maddadicusrex said:

Mine says 30 through the Nvidia G-Force filter. Nvidia offers me a 60 option but with a serious hit to grapnics. Funny is that if I set my resolution to 1910 x 1080 (?) I am capped at 30, but if I play at 3840 x 2160, I can hit a 60 max..If that makes sense.  I am not a PC head, been only gaming with, for a year.. My issue with G-Force is that it really downgrades my gaming experiance with recomended settings that underplay the specs of my computer. IMHO

The recommended settings it offers are as far as I can tell the ones that are supposed to give you the maximum fps, and smoothest game play, but not the best graphics or at least that is what is seems to do for me.

 

Best thing I can think of is grab your monitors manual or spec sheet and see what resolutions and refresh rates it will do and pick from the ones that are 60hz or higher for the refresh rate, when I look in the nvidia control panel, not the geforce experiance,  it show two lists of resolutions of for 60 hz, and the other for 30 hz, in two seperate lists, with the 30hz refresh being the top on, took me a while to figure that out when games that previously ran at 60fps now capped out at 30 after changing resolution.

[arcatwelve]

You are at the bare minimum for the recommended spec for GPU so yeah, you probably wont ever get that super fps experience, especially with mods

 

BUT if you were running at 24 fps and not really feeling bad about it, why worry? 24 fps is just as good as standard movie quality right up until the HD age AND you are still getting it in full hd. While some people just have to demand that they get 60 fps (or more, though honestly I laugh most times because no matter what the fps counter says most monitors simply don't render beyond 60hz) the visual difference between 24(30) and 60 is minimal. 

 

I'm getting 60 though  

[phillout]

19 hours ago, arcatwelve said:

the visual difference between 24(30) and 60 is minimal. 

 

 

This is simply not true. The difference is there and is very noticeable. The thing is - those people saying "hey, movies have 24FPS anyway" forget that movies have no user input. Once you start rotating you camera around freely at 24 fps and 60 fps (and this is what all games do) - the difference is so much obvious I don't know how anyone could miss that lag. 24 FPS is simply unplayable IMO.

 

Next, in Creation Engine Papyrus works at every frame. By default - 1.2ms after every frame, to be precise (or 2.4 ms in Fallout 4). By halving your FPS you also halve your Papyrus performance, which is already not as shiny as anyone would have expected.

[maddadicusrex]

1 hour ago, phillout said:

 

This is simply not true. The difference is there and is very noticeable. The thing is - those people saying "hey, movies have 24FPS anyway" forget that movies have no user input. Once you start rotating you camera around freely at 24 fps and 60 fps (and this is what all games do) - the difference is so much obvious I don't know how anyone could miss that lag. 24 FPS is simply unplayable IMO.

 

Next, in Creation Engine Papyrus works at every frame. By default - 1.2ms after every frame, to be precise (or 2.4 ms in Fallout 4). By halving your FPS you also halve your Papyrus performance, which is already not as shiny as anyone would have expected.

I am playing at 15 -20 FPS at high resolution without stutter, tearing, or crashes. Been playing that way including runs into Boston for weeks now. Absolutes without proof convince no one with any guts to try out all things without making excuses.

[phillout]

You may play on whatever FPS that suits you, but stating that "FPS is a myth" is the same as saying that the Earth is flat.

 

I guess some people are more sensitive to it, some are less. Those who started playing games in the era of CRT monitors (like me) are apparently the most sensitive to the FPS rate, I can spot a difference between 60 Hz and 75 Hz. Everything below 40 FPS is unplayable to me, and 25 is just a slideshow.

[mashup47]

Nothing has really changed apart from image quality eg top spec AAA game at 4k with ultra setting's and your lucky if it hits 65fps .

[arcatwelve]

18 hours ago, phillout said:

You may play on whatever FPS that suits you, but stating that "FPS is a myth" is the same as saying that the Earth is flat.

 

I guess some people are more sensitive to it, some are less. Those who started playing games in the era of CRT monitors (like me) are apparently the most sensitive to the FPS rate, I can spot a difference between 60 Hz and 75 Hz. Everything below 40 FPS is unplayable to me, and 25 is just a slideshow.

Your last two posts highlight exactly WHY I know you have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing a higher FPS does is make the picture and the details within more clear.

 

While in some games (like Bethesda titles, and Unreal engine titles) there are some engine components that are tied to the fps and thus some things get wonky in it input lag has NOTHING to do with your FPS and everything to do with WHY your FPS may be low.

 

You can force Fallout 4 to run at 15 fps even if your hardware can handle it at 60 at your chosen resolution and still suffer no change in input rate. You only see input lag when you suffer FPS drops due to some other hardware issue, and stuttering and screentearing having nothing to do with your fps either.

 

FPS DROPS are a bigger problem because they show your hardware can't keep up, and THAT is the effect you are describing which again has nothing to do with how your eyes register the frame rate. The simple fact is that there is so little difference between 60fps and 30fps that most people can't see the difference, period. While the human eye stops seeing ANY difference in a moving picture at about 150fps (studies proved) and we "can" perceive things that flash at up to a rate of 1/1000th of a second (effectively 1000 fps) the FUNCTIONAL difference between disappears on the curve at around 40 frames per second. 

 

The idea that controlling the panning somehow makes a difference is a laughable assertion since the cameras pan in movies ALL THE TIME. And again the effect you are describing is the frame DROPS from panning, which does not happen in movies since they aren't ALSO rendering, which means you are NOT running a stable fps which is the real problem.

 

 

[Invictusblade]

I brought myself a 9900K with a 2080, and I still have an occurring frame-rate issue (to do with mods I bet)

recently I was playing around with vivid ENB and for whatever reason it locked itself to 30fps and that was simply annoying

and then I played around with the settings and lock the Framerate to 15fps and it was completely unplayable.

 

but the thing with fallout 4 is that it feels really weird when playing at 144, it is simply too fast

 

 

there was another game that had a framerate issue and that was Batman Arkham Knight

it is natively locked to 30fps and I hated it

I modified the settings to 60fps and it become a joy to play and I really liked it

[mashup47]

8 hours ago, Invictaxe said:

(to do with mods I bet)

I bet it's the game engine. have you tried locking the frame at 60fps that's what I have done with my setup which seems to be the sweat spot for me and as you say anything below 30fps is just not nice to play on.

[Invictusblade]

19 minutes ago, mashup47 said:

I bet it's the game engine. have you tried locking the frame at 60fps that's what I have done with my setup which seems to be the sweat spot for me and as you say anything below 30fps is just not nice to play on.

I notice the big killer is my mod list is AA Lots More Settlers and Enemies.esp so I switched to Facials.esp and it is a lot more smoother afterwards

 

and I have my framerate locked to 60-61fps

[mashup47]

24 minutes ago, Invictaxe said:

I notice the big killer is my mod list is AA Lots More Settlers and Enemies.esp so I switched to Facials.esp and it is a lot more smoother afterwards

 

and I have my framerate locked to 60-61fps

I merge Most of my textures into the games texture Ba files unless they have custom mesh's. And like you I try to keep the script heavy mod's to a minimum. 

The thing that annoys me the most is with the amount of time's Fallout been updated I'm still fixing the same bug's that have been in the game since it's release!

[Invictusblade]

21 minutes ago, mashup47 said:

I merge Most of my textures into the games texture Ba files unless they have custom mesh's. And like you I try to keep the script heavy mod's to a minimum. 

The thing that annoys me the most is with the amount of time's Fallout been updated I'm still fixing the same bug's that have been in the game since it's release!

same, on an external hard drive I have a backup of my loose files which totaled 136 GB with 107,786 files

heh I just checked my current fallout 4 folder and it totaled 201 GB and 128,280 files

I think I need a major(MAJOR) clean up

 

however AA LMSE is bit different because I build the facegen and textures all of the faces but it is still slow

and I reconfigured the leveled NPC's to lists of 20 or so instead of the 200 it originally had.