Certain Armor Mods cause stuttering. Can't figure out why.

[Nohrin]

This has only happened with four or maybe even five different armor mods. I honestly cannot explain it. Whenever I equip said armor, my game will stutter when moving around every 3-4 seconds. These stutters will be somewhat micro. Enough that its noticeable. I looked at my FPS, and it doesn't look like it drops, but it might be dropping so little, so fast that its not noticeable. 

 

In most recent memory, four mods that have caused this for me are:

Melodic's conversion of "Dark Enchantress" https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-dark-elf-25867661

Melodic's conversion of Blood Red Outfit https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-blood-24851365

Melodic's Conversion of Gold Princess Xtra https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-gold-20790988

JR's Conversion of Osare Culort Outfit

 

I have looked at both the ESP and Mesh (using Nifskope) and found nothing out of the ordinary. My only guess is it would have something to do with the textures. But I am not that knowledgeable about textures, or if they could cause such stutter. 

 

If anyone could help me figure out why these mods in particular cause my game to stutter, it would be appreciated. 

 

Edit: I should mention I use a UUNP body. It's a custom preset I created myself. 

[Grey Cloud]

What size are the textures?

 

Why not ask on the support pages for the armours?

[SpyVsPie]

Melodic usually has 2k textures available for his stuff. Maybe give those a try, could just be that the 4k is too much for your setup. 

[Nohrin]

13 minutes ago, SpyVsPie said:

Melodic usually has 2k textures available for his stuff. Maybe give those a try, could just be that the 4k is too much for your setup. 

I could of sworn I chose the 2k textures when installing them. I will re-download them a give it another try. I am able to use 4k body textures with no problem, so I doubt my setup can't handle an armor set.

[Grey Cloud]

1 minute ago, Nohrin said:

I could of sworn I chose the 2k textures when installing them. I will re-download them a give it another try. I am able to use 4k body textures with no problem, so I doubt my setup can't handle an armor set.

It's is a cumulative effect  - the more and or larger the textures, the more of your VRAM gets eaten.

[Nohrin]

6 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

It's is a cumulative effect  - the more and or larger the textures, the more of your VRAM gets eaten.

Just tried with 2k textures and I still stutter. I have plenty of unused vram as well I should mention. Floating around 6k cached.

 

Edit: I also recently started a new playthrough and removed a bunch of my armor mods. I can actually use a lot more than I currently have. So that really adds to the mystery of why I can't handle these specific sets.

 

Edit2: For comparison, Dark Enchantress set with 2k textures is 81mb. I have another set Sotteta Black Rose, which is 164mb which I use with no issue. 

[Grey Cloud]

14 minutes ago, Nohrin said:

Just tried with 2k textures and I still stutter. I have plenty of unused vram as well I should mention. Floating around 6k cached.

 

Edit: I also recently started a new playthrough and removed a bunch of my armor mods. I can actually use a lot more than I currently have. So that really adds to the mystery of why I can't handle these specific sets.

 

Edit2: For comparison, Dark Enchantress set with 2k textures is 81mb. I have another set Sotteta Black Rose, which is 164mb which I use with no issue. 

 

What '6k'? Cached where?

 

Take it up with the mod then. It is not a Skyrim technical issue.

 

[Nohrin]

6 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

What '6k'? Cached where?

 

Take it up with the mod then. It is not a Skyrim technical issue.

6k unused RAM. 

 

You can't ask for mod help here? This seems to be a technical issue, considering no one else has this problem with the mod. I have ruled out it being a vRam issue, as my setup can handle 4k textures and even with 2k, it still has stutter. What else could it be? 

[Grey Cloud]

33 minutes ago, Nohrin said:

6k unused RAM. 

 

You can't ask for mod help here? This seems to be a technical issue, considering no one else has this problem with the mod. I have ruled out it being a vRam issue, as my setup can handle 4k textures and even with 2k, it still has stutter. What else could it be? 

There is no such thing as 6k of RAM. It has to be 6KB or 6Kb. In either case your machine would have ground to a halt long before it got to that. (K = kilo = 1,000 (1024)).

 

Saying "my setup can handle 4k textures" is meaningless. Do you understand what 'cumulative' means?

 

If your game worked fine before the mods then the issue is with the mods and not a technical issue affecting Skyrim per se.

[Nohrin]

31 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

There is no such thing as 6k of RAM. It has to be 6KB or 6Kb. In either case your machine would have ground to a halt long before it got to that. (K = kilo = 1,000 (1024)).

 

Saying "my setup can handle 4k textures" is meaningless. Do you understand what 'cumulative' means?

 

If your game worked fine before the mods then the issue is with the mods and not a technical issue affecting Skyrim per se.

Sorry, meant 6 GB RAM. I have 16GB RAM total. Skyrim plus all my background processes (cough chrome) uses up 10gb worth.

 

So you got no other ideas to suggest? I'm out of ideas myself.

[Grey Cloud]

16 minutes ago, Nohrin said:

Sorry, meant 6 GB RAM. I have 16GB RAM total. Skyrim plus all my background processes (cough chrome) uses up 10gb worth.

 

So you got no other ideas to suggest? I'm out of ideas myself.

RAM is not the same as VRAM and a lot depends on whether you have the game configured correctly.

 

I've already said to go to where you got the mods.

[Nohrin]

4 minutes ago, Grey Cloud said:

I've already said to go to where you got the mods.

Okay, thanks anyway.

 

Anyone else got some ideas? I wonder if it could be related to my ENB? I will try disabling it and see if it has any effect.

[Pauduan]

What resolution are you running?

 

All armor has a mesh component and a texture component, and then there is the skeleton being used by the body in the armor. The only time I've experienced stutters with armor is 

 

1) mesh has too many polys/system too weak to handle large poly count

 

2) body in the armor mesh not compatible with skeleton the game

 

Textures are usually not an issue unless you are running out of VRAM (note not RAM, which is system memory). A 4GB card will be quite stressed out when running skyrim with even 2K textures. 6GB is the bare minimum for a reasonable level of performance+detail. Mind this is only with FHD (1920x) resolutions. Higher resolutions tend to hammer the system harder.

[Nohrin]

1 hour ago, Pauduan said:

What resolution are you running?

 

All armor has a mesh component and a texture component, and then there is the skeleton being used by the body in the armor. The only time I've experienced stutters with armor is 

 

1) mesh has too many polys/system too weak to handle large poly count

 

2) body in the armor mesh not compatible with skeleton the game

 

Textures are usually not an issue unless you are running out of VRAM (note not RAM, which is system memory). A 4GB card will be quite stressed out when running skyrim with even 2K textures. 6GB is the bare minimum for a reasonable level of performance+detail. Mind this is only with FHD (1920x) resolutions. Higher resolutions tend to hammer the system harder.

I am running 1920x1080

 

I've googled to see if anyone else had troubles with this armor set. Couldn't find anyone mentioning stutters. How can I test to see if my system can handle large poly count meshes? 

 

If I were to remove the attached body apart of the mesh, and put my own one in, would that be of any help?

 

btw my system specs are: i7 2600 quad core, 8 logical processors. Nvidia GTX 970 16gb RAM. I am running windows 7 however.

 

My computer is getting pretty old, but so far I have not found any mod I could not handle. Even the toughest ENBs were playable (~40 fps).

[Pauduan]

1. Equip the armor on and NPC or PC, whatever causes the stutter.

 

2. Walk up to the NPC, get max stuttering going, then open up a console and freeze the NPC (tai - after clicking on the NPC and getting their form ID showing on screen)

 

3. Toggle ENB off and exit the console, see if stuttering is still a problem. If not, then the graphics is the bottleneck. 

 

4. If stutter remains even after ENB is switched off, open up the ENB info window and check the draw calls count. 

 

5. Enter the console again, hopefully the NPC is still selected and type removeallitems. This should make the NPC naked - if the draw calls count drop stutter should no longer be an issue. If not, it's something else.

[yatol]

14 hours ago, Pauduan said:

1) mesh has too many polys/system too weak to handle large poly count

 

2) body in the armor mesh not compatible with skeleton the game

 

Textures are usually not an issue unless you are running out of VRAM (note not RAM, which is system memory). A 4GB card will be quite stressed out when running skyrim with even 2K textures. 6GB is the bare minimum for a reasonable level of performance+detail. Mind this is only with FHD (1920x) resolutions. Higher resolutions tend to hammer the system harder.

and where is that blabla coming from?

here's some high poly

blender crash if i export stuff with more than 25 000 vertice, so i cut it in parts

that's my biggest nif, 34 mb, it eat about 0.8 fps

 

here's battlemaiden, with a gtx 570 1280 mb

had to resize down the texture of that 17 mb nif (no need to decimate because of the urban legend)

left glove have one texture, right glove have one texture, many are 3000*3000, saving that as 4k later, there was 200-250 mb of texture, fps cost 2.3

that version eat 0.6 fps

left arm (that is edited reverse of right arm) had its uv map reverse to use right arm texture

and the 3000*3000 chest was bake with most 2000*2000 in a 4k texture (there's 2 textures outside of that because had to resize down too much for everything to fit the 4k)

textures drop to 44mb, fps cost drop too

 

 

boot is 14k vertices

chest is 7k vertices

chest is more work for cpu than boot, even if boot have more vertices, because chest have 11 bones and boots have 6 bones (it's the cpu that move around that stuff, gpu only load textures on the stuff that is rendered)

 

if fps drop a lot when you equip something, it's probably the weights the problem

 

when you export nif with bodyslide, it take the nifs from the bodyslide skeleton by default

the skeleton in latest version, it's the same as the skeleton from first version?

something weight for bone x y z, it don't move the same with bone x1 y1 z1

and you export that with a body that is weight for bone x1 y1 z1

armor go a little lower than the body, it can now clip with the body

 

a little clipping on an iron armor replacer, that was 0.05 fps, if clipping is *20, it's just 1 fps, you may not notice

bad weights on high poly, there's more clipping, if it waste 15 fps, you will notice (problem isn't high poly, it's the weights)

 

 

[Pauduan]

3 hours ago, yatol said:

and where is that blabla coming from?

Not everybody in the world experiences the same thing. No two peoples' setups are the same, no two mod lists are alike. It stands to reason there may be more than one reason for any problem.

 

I'm sorry for whatever happened to you to make you think, talk and react like this. 

[Grey Cloud]

46 minutes ago, Pauduan said:

No two peoples' setups are the same, no two mod lists are alike. It stands to reason there may be more than one reason for any problem

No it doesn't. Skyrim deals with e.g. textures the same way regardless of one's set up, mod list, etc.

[GenioMaestro]

On 5/10/2019 at 2:41 PM, Nohrin said:

If anyone could help me figure out why these mods in particular cause my game to stutter, it would be appreciated. 

Nomaly, the problem is not caused by excesive poligons or gigantic textures. For really have a problem caused by that the armor must have near 65k poligons in each part. Maybe the textures not have the correct format and the game must recompute some things but is strange. That problems must show in a lot of users.

 

Normally, that is a problem caused by the skeleton used in the armor. Every player can have a diferent base skeleton and a different HDT processor. If the skelton is incompatible or the bone nodes have a bad join or the armor is not correctly weigted you can have a lot of problems and stuttering in every frame because HDT compute a lot of incorrect things. The only solution is correct the armor, replacing the skeleton in the armor, make the correct join for the bones and apply the correct weigth. Or remove the armor.

[yatol]

10 hours ago, Pauduan said:

Not everybody in the world experiences the same thing. No two peoples' setups are the same, no two mod lists are alike. It stands to reason there may be more than one reason for any problem.

whatever gpu you have, or whatever mods you have, doesn't matter

that stuff is the same it was in oblivion or morrowind, and in other games....

is it that hard to check stuff in game instead of guessing bullshit?

 

you coc qasmoke, save in the middle of crafting area and spawn 50 with the armor (only one it's not enought)

then you reload and spawn 50 npc without

then you reload and spawn 50 npc with no textures if you want to pick between 1,2 or 4k

then you reload and spawn 50 npc with the armor without tbpp, because why not check that too

easy stuff

 

if some textures are no good, the performance waste is when the game load those textures, game generate missing mipmap or resize, then load that in your ram, and that's it, once it's done it's done

there's tools to check that, smco, texture optimiser... if you don't use them that's your problem

 

anyway

On 5/10/2019 at 2:41 PM, Nohrin said:

Edit: I should mention I use a UUNP body. It's a custom preset I created myself. 

he have problems with 3 armors from the same modder

i bet that modder don't use the skeleton there is in bodyslide

armor is weight for skeleton x, nif was exported with skeleton y bones from bodyslide

15 hours ago, yatol said:

 

when you export nif with bodyslide, it take the nifs from the bodyslide skeleton by default

the skeleton in latest version, it's the same as the skeleton from first version?

something weight for bone x y z, it don't move the same with bone x1 y1 z1

and you export that with a body that is weight for bone x1 y1 z1

armor go a little lower than the body, it can now clip with the body

 

and it's the clipping between armor and body that is crushing his fps

 

On 5/10/2019 at 5:12 PM, Pauduan said:

2) body in the armor mesh not compatible with skeleton the game

 

the compatible blabla it's about loading a tbbp armor without a tbbp skeleton

that's a ctd, not a drop of fps

 

 

[Nohrin]

Sorry for not responding over past day. Relatives over so less time on computer. I'm struggling to keep up with how this all works, but from the gist of it, the person who converted it (Melodic) was using a different skeleton than I am? And that is the cause of the problem? I'm not too well versed with the advanced usage of Bodyslide, so replacing a skeleton seems a bit daunting to me. I will look up some guides and see if I can make any progress. Thanks everyone for chiming in with some of your knowledge. I'm definitely out of my depth.

[Pauduan]

17 hours ago, Grey Cloud said:

No it doesn't. Skyrim deals with e.g. textures the same way regardless of one's set up, mod list, etc.

I'm not talking about the way the engine works. Different hardware setups are able to cope with modded games differently, and that was my point. Not everybody's installation is the same, and therefore you can't directly translate from your setup experience to somebody else's. There may be an issue that I've experienced and it was caused by a different mod/conflict

 

5 hours ago, yatol said:

the compatible blabla it's about loading a tbbp armor without a tbbp skeleton

that's a ctd, not a drop of fps

 

Like I said, you can keep your opinion to yourself. You say bla bla and then post 600 words. You can stuff your attitude where the sun doesn't shine - I'm not going to dignify your lack of courtesy with a response or discussion. You're not worth my time.

[Pauduan]

2 hours ago, Nohrin said:

Sorry for not responding over past day. Relatives over so less time on computer. I'm struggling to keep up with how this all works, but from the gist of it, the person who converted it (Melodic) was using a different skeleton than I am? And that is the cause of the problem? I'm not too well versed with the advanced usage of Bodyslide, so replacing a skeleton seems a bit daunting to me. I will look up some guides and see if I can make any progress. Thanks everyone for chiming in with some of your knowledge. I'm definitely out of my depth.

Apologies for the turn the thread took. I'm sure there is some helpful advice among the thousands of words written in the responses to my post.

 

If not, the few things you can try are:

 

1. Check that TAA is off in your ENB.

 

2. Re-install your skeleton in the armor, as pointed out a few posts above. It' not that tough to do, Google is your friend and if you still can't get it done DM me and I'll see what I can do.

 

3. Try using a lower texture option if possible though I doubt it'll help.

[yatol]

2 hours ago, Pauduan said:

 

Like I said, you can keep your opinion to yourself.

 

that's not an opinion... i know that stuff....

https://www.patreon.com/posts/melodic-dark-elf-25867661

Quote

Update!

Replaced panties with high poly ones and fixed UV in core mod

he replaced something?

if someone want to mimick them, here's how it's done

 

 

that's outfit isn't converted to unp, have just load it on v4 unp in daz


unp it's the white, v4 match more or less unp, so the outfit match unp too
v4 hands don't match skyrim hands (i don't put unp in those armors, so i got lazy, no need to move those fingers one by one)
v4 toes are a little highter than skyrim toes, a small difference that result in that



you can follow the video about importing the daz .obj in 3dmax to manually edit it, very long to convert stuff that way
or you can import body x in daz, to make v4 body x faster
then anything you load on v4 body x is converted to body x



importing the .obj in 3dmax or blender, to export that as .nif, you have that in the other video
saving the .jpg as .dds, anyone can do that
distributing sbp 32 in the nif, anyone can do that
copy pasting body x weights on the armor, anyone can do that
if there's something too far from body x, you will see for yourself the result of bad weights, unless you somehow get that right on first try
 

 

 

and here's another trick

instead of asking op to try this or that, without having any idea what the problem is

why not ask an upload of that nif to take a look in game?