Am I the only one who thinks this is CRAP?

[srayesmanll]

srayesmanll' date=' you are splitting hairs. Modding as I stated it, was meant in a general sense. It doesn't matter if you are creating outfits\landscapes\architecture from scratch or just making mashups of existing items for your screenshots. It is all modding. No one takes screenshots of "vanilla" stuff.

 

 

-----

 

As I said before if you are modding then do it for your own amusement. However, you need to realize that when you post it online, you should be prepared to share it. To taunt others is a dick move, no matter what type of "artsy" label you want to hide behind. If you aren't willing to share the mod, then don't post the screenshots. All that says is "look what I have that you can't have". I find it difficult to even fathom why folks can't see why that is irritating to others.

 

Now, as I said before, this is simply my opinion. As such it is neither wrong nor right, but the way I see things. I do understand that folks will continue to post pictures of stuff they won't or can't share and I will just ignore them and their screenshots. This is just life, and we should all know by now that life, she just isn't fair.

[/quote']

 

Am I splitting hairs? Probably. Thing is I see a major difference between creating a mod and sharing your creation with others in a community. I do see what you are saying, but I will still disagree on 2 points:

 

1) "No one takes screenshots of "vanilla" stuff" - I will have to call BS on that one. I have seen numerous screenshots where the purpose of the screenshot was to show how cool Skyrim looked (NOT how cool a particular mod looked). In those cases, it was vanilla, no mods. And I am not talking Bethesda screenshots, these were player screenshots.

 

2) My real difference of opinion with yours is how I view screenshots. I hate to restate my opinion, but I see screenshots as art. I look at it as a whole, not the sum of it's parts. I don't look at each screenshot and think "Wow, what do I need to do to replicate that?". I look at them an think, "Wow, that's nice.", "Beautiful", or sometimes "Uhhhh, no". I do not see screenshots as advertisements for mods (except where the screen is part of the mod description, like the screenshots tab the author fills on Nexus, or attached to the OP of a mod thread here). HOWEVER, as I've mentioned at least 3 times before, if someone is posting a screenshot in a thread that is dealing with something specifically mod based (armor, sword, gun, etc), and the screenshot artist says "phphphpbbbbbbttttth, you can't have it, it's mine", then yes, I AGREE, it is a dick move. I don't think I've wavered from that opinion from my first drunken rambling to the last post. My point has always been, I look at the whole, not at the sum of it's parts. Other people look at screenshots as shopping list to find things to download. I do not. My only question to you is this: Why can't a screen just be beautiful? Why does it have to give you something?

[srayesmanll]

I think what rubs me the wrong way about your -opinion- Srayesmanll' date=' isn't the snarkiness or the completely condescending tone you wield like a battleaxe... it's that you recite your -opinion- as fact, and anyone who contradicts your -opinion- is treated as a lesser being.

[/quote']

 

Hhhmmm, condescending tone. Like calling my opinion, an -opinion-. Believe me, I can see the air-quotes you are making with your fingers. And if THAT's not condescending...

 

Your entitled to your -opinion-, but that also allows me to be entitled to my own. I was merely remarking on how displeased I was with the practice in question and asking for others to voice their frustrations or at least explain the reasoning. I certainly didn't resort to calling anyone 'childish', or 'entitled', or even say anyones remarks or -opinions- were wrong.

 

And here we are with the condescending air-quotes again regarding my opinions. I don't believe I have ever used the words "childish" or "entitled" ANYWHERE in ANY of my posts on this thread. If I have, please point them out. And I NEVER said were not entitled to your own opinion. You asked a specific question - "Am I wrong?", and I answered with my opinion - "Yes".

 

My intent was not to debate you, or anyone else about the matter. I simply wanted to gain some insight on the subject at hand.

 

OK, this may be where my condescending (and probably snarky) attitude may come in. If your intent was not to debate, then:

 

a) Why did you post this in a GENERAL DISCUSSION section? As I mentioned before, you could have posted in the rant thread.

 

AND

 

Why do you feel the need to respond (which increases the debate) if you just wanted to read opinions? If that was truly the case, you would wait until everything died down on it, read the individual posts, worked up some conclusions, posted them, the left never to return to this thread. By monitoring and responding to other poster OPINIONS, you have shown that it is debate you are wanting.

 

 

Points of interest:

 

1. Should modders share mods that they make public through numerous posted screenshots of said mods?

My OPINION has never wavered on this. SHOULD they? Yes. Are they REQUIRED to? No.

 

2. Does anyone feel slighted by modders posting screenshots of their mods, and refusing to share them?

The fact you take it as a personal slight that they don't post their mods, says more about you than you think. Again, are they posting this particular screenshot to just post a screenshot? Or are they posting this screenshot to SPECIFICALLY show off an ELEMENT of the screenshot? This has been my question, point, OPINION all along. If they are posting a screenshot for people to view as art, and not a shopping list, when why can't you look at the screenshot that way?

 

3. Is the practice of posting screenshots of 'restricted' mods, just as bad as sharing the mod itself? (Nexus seems to think so... just ask the numerous banned that populate LL)

On Nexus, "restricted" means literally "restricted" from their site. Such as posting a screenshot that uses anything from Krista as they feels those items are rips/stolen/whatever (not saying they are, just that Nexus seems to fell that way). And they don't allow the Krista-based mods on the site as well. And just because LL is a lot more lenient on things like Krista mods doesn't mean there isn't anything restricted here (child porn type screens and mods are a big no-no).

 

4. As a modder, do you gain something from exclusivity versus sharing?

Yes, it is my OPINION that a mod developer can get a couple of things from not sharing:

 

1) The smug satisfaction of having something that no one else has. From your various posts, and some by other people, you seem to feel that this is the ONLY reason they post screenshots containing things they won't (or CAN'T) share. And I'm not saying you're wrong. Some people like having something of their own that nobody else has. And that is not always a bad thing. If they want to share the beauty of it in screenshots, that should be fine. If they show a screenshot of it in a thread that is for displaying armor and the won't release the armor from that screenshot, then yes it is a "dick" move. But a "dick" move they as a human being can do.

 

2) A mod that won't get ridiculed by people because it is incomplete, or just not very good. Have you ever stopped to think that maybe the ONLY good thing about the mod is that ONE thing that appears in the screen shot, but the rest of the mod sucks so hard that they would be actually embarrassed by releasing it? I see that as another legitimate reason not to release it (think I covered that in the last post), but as usual that idea will be ignored.

 

5. As a modder, do you gain something from 'showing off' your mod, only to deny it from everyone who would like to enjoy it?

This in my OPINION is the fundamental difference in our disagreement. I do not see every single screenshot being uploaded as an advertisement for some armor/sword/gun/tree/bush/body/nipple/etc that is contained within the screenshot. I see the screenshot as a whole artistic entity unto itself. THEN I look at the screenshot in context to the thread it appears in. If the thread is a "show us your armor" thread, and then the screenshot artist says "ha ha, you can't have it, it's all mine", then I agree with your OPINION that it is a "dick" move. I don't think I have ever changed that OPINION in my posts. I think it's been pretty damn consistent. However, where we differ is that my other OPINION on this is "too fucking bad for me if he won't give it too me". And then I move on, not letting that "rejection" spoil my fun in playing a GAME.

 

Really, I think these are the primary points I was/am curious about. Now remember (Srayesmanll, this is for you... so pay attention ) I am asking for -OPINIONS-, I am not looking to 'solve' this 'problem'. Just attaining perspective and knowledge to grow as a human being.

 

Never thought you were trying solve a problem because there was no problem to solve. In my OPINION. There were also questions about WHY someone would not release a mod, and I tried to give valid examples. But of course they were ignored because they didn't match your OPINION. And here are my final OPINIONS:

 

OPINION 1) Again, if you did not want to debate this you should have posted this in the rant thread and also not posted several times regurgitating the thing from your original post. You should have just done a summing up of your conclusions at the end. You wanted a debate and you got one.

 

OPINION 2) My opinion is there are valid reasons why someone can't or won't release a mod used in a screenshot. I have given those opinions, but they tend to be ignored by you.

 

OPINION 3) I consider screenshots as art first and as a shopping list for mods second. And I also consider where the screenshot was originally posted by the artist before considering it an advertisement/shopping list.

 

OPINION 4) You do not want real opinions. You want your opinion parroted back to you in a sycophantic fashion. And when they don't you say they are being condescending. And strangely you do it in the same condescending manner you complained about.

 

So, yeah... unclench your ass, and mellow a bit will ya?

Actually I am one of the most easy-going individuals that you will ever meet. I just get a little snarky sometimes (I'm using that word for another person's benefit). However, I do have one final STATEMENT: I will unclench and mellow, if you will perform a cranial-rectal extraction upon yourself and get some fresh air.

 

Good day.

[Luna_Natsume]

I think your post needs more OVERSIZED RED words to be clearly understood...

 

Now... I just can't stop chuckling. I really can't be expected to take that post seriously, right? It's like trying to do a public service annoucement about breast cancer awareness, with Carrot Top and Chris Rock screaming "BOOBIES" at the top of their lungs.

 

LOL So yeah, I don't know if I can stop laughing long enough to really make a serious reply to any of that mess, so I will simply end with a 'good day' to you as well.

 

[srayesmanll]

So, in other words, tl;dr. Typical. The oversized red was to symbolize how I WASN'T being dismissive of someone's opinion (not like you with your air-quoted -opinion- text). Even your opinions that I mentioned got the oversized red text to show as opinions, they should be taken seriously. But as I stated (which of course you failed to read or understand), because I did not whole-heartedly agree with your glorious and sanctified opinions, and I did not repeat them back to you like a parrot with diarrhea, you couldn't be bothered to read them. Again, who's being condescending?

[gregathit]

1) "No one takes screenshots of "vanilla" stuff" - I will have to call BS on that one. I have seen numerous screenshots where the purpose of the screenshot was to show how cool Skyrim looked (NOT how cool a particular mod looked). In those cases' date=' it was vanilla, no mods. And I am not talking Bethesda screenshots, these were player screenshots.

[/quote']

 

For skyrim, I guess I can go along with that.

 

 

2) My real difference of opinion with yours is how I view screenshots. I hate to restate my opinion' date=' but I see screenshots as art. I look at it as a whole, not the sum of it's parts. I don't look at each screenshot and think "Wow, what do I need to do to replicate that?". I look at them an think, "Wow, that's nice.", "Beautiful", or sometimes "Uhhhh, no". I do not see screenshots as advertisements for mods (except where the screen is part of the mod description, like the screenshots tab the author fills on Nexus, or attached to the OP of a mod thread here). HOWEVER, as I've mentioned at least 3 times before, if someone is posting a screenshot in a thread that is dealing with something specifically mod based (armor, sword, gun, etc), and the screenshot artist says "phphphpbbbbbbttttth, you can't have it, it's mine", then yes, I AGREE, it is a dick move. I don't think I've wavered from that opinion from my first drunken rambling to the last post. My point has always been, I look at the whole, not at the sum of it's parts. Other people look at screenshots as shopping list to find things to download. I do not. My only question to you is this: Why can't a screen just be beautiful? Why does it have to give you something?

[/quote']

 

 

Context is of course the defining point on any of this. Posting screenshots on a gaming\modding site without providing said shoping list of the parts is IMHO a dick move. If you are going for "ART" then post to a place like Deviant Art or something similar.

[srayesmanll]

Context is of course the defining point on any of this. Posting screenshots on a gaming\modding site without providing said shoping list of the parts is IMHO a dick move. If you are going for "ART" then post to a place like Deviant Art or something similar.

 

One of the problems I have with the original post is that there are no examples showing exactly where these screenshots are coming from. They may have originated at a place like DeviantArt, then were reposted here in a "what mod..." thread. Not saying that's probable, only possible.

[R0R0N0]

I was dissatisfied with such individuals myself which is why I started modding.

You should just channel all that anger towards learning the art of modding/converting and then you won't have to worry about some dude showing off his private mods.

[Luna_Natsume]

I tried my hand at modding, read all the tutorials, watched all the videos... even went through the 70+ pages of the blender tutorial and have a spiffy little 3D house with windows in it to show for it.

 

I tried to convert Osares kneesocks to CBBE, and after a few failed tried I finally got it... not perfectly mind you (There is still a tiny bit of clipping at the back of the knee when walking) but it worked. After all the tutorials, and blender mistakes, and nifscope workarounds to get everything into skyrim JUST to test it and end up finding out that it came out wrong over and over... I sort of burned myself out on it. I plan to revisit it someday. Maybe when nifscripts becomes compatible with skyrim without all the stupid workarounds. Until that day though, I just have to dream that some of the ideas swimming around in my head, might be done by someone with more skill and patience than myself.

 

After 100+ hours of reading/tutorials/trial and error... I have a DEEP respect for modders who are able to pump out so much awesome product. With that being said, anything that takes that much time and dedication seems like a waste, when you don't share it with others. If I were able to make 10% of all the ideas I've had in my head from the first day I decided to give modding a try... there would be 40-50 brand new mods for everyone here to enjoy.

 

Is that because I am generous by nature?

 

Hell no! I pretty much selfishly guard all my personal possessions, even from my own kids... ESPECIALLY from my own kids! LOL

 

...but...

 

I honestly would consider it a tremendous WASTE of my efforts if I was the ONLY person to be able to enjoy it. Even if my work totally SUCKED and all I got was bitchy comments and critiques from assholes who have nothing better to do than tear down others... I would STILL share every mod I created.

 

Why?

 

1. It takes mere MINUTES to upload a mod to share

2. People appreciate fresh material/inspiration/ideas to improve upon

3. SOMEONE might actually LIKE it, or decide to retex/improve it, to make it their own/better

4. This is a community and as such should be working together to help each other and contribute when they can

5. Gives me a sense of accomplishment and helps me improve my craft when others help and give insight/advice

6. It's not the selfish/dickhead thing to do...

 

...and that last one, coming from an inherantly selfish person is a pretty big statement. LOL

[Syndrome]

6. It's not the selfish/dickhead thing to do...

 

...and that last one' date=' coming from an inherantly selfish person is a pretty big statement. LOL

[/quote']

 

So, you are saying those who share their mods are not selfish and dickheads at all. Then, are you trying to compare to the others? Those who has private mods and just showing screenshots of them? Don't say no, even the stupidest person can notice that you are teasing those. I just don't understand that people are so upset just looking at those screenshots of private mod.

 

My modding community is almost in ruins. Because modders started to abandon their works. I had no ideas why they are leaving. But I saw those modders started complaining about attitude of people who is getting their mods. I was sharing their mods in LL since I started modding. Now, every single modder from my community wants me stop.

 

We do not want to be recognized. We just want people know who made these mods. I hope more people understand modders work really really REALLY F**kING hard to create a single mod. And they are giving away for FREE. If no one cares, there's no differences between private mods and some random mods whoever made them. Or even worse. Some assholes are gonna say that they made the mod which is not their mod by themselves. I think modders are not the one to be blamed for this topic.

 

They should earn respects. Not this useless complaining. You will just make more modders abandoning their mods and you still gain nothing. I thought LL community stands modders first.

[Otaku21]

I would have to say i agree with Treager for the most part, Why would i want to waste time looking a screen shot of something i cant get? Answer is.. i don't,

but if a modders doset want to share his or her mod, that is there right,

i just don't like it when some modders wave it in others people's face (and ya there is some who do, don't kid yourself saying there not)

so how to fix the problem? easy make a forum with the tile "Private Mod Showcase",and it makes everyone happy, they still get to post the screen shots,

and we don't have to look at them, unless we want to, and no one gets bent out of shape trying to get a mod, that not out anywhere

 

Now what Screen shots have to have when posted there

 

1. if its showcasing a private mod, like showing Weapon, armor, magic, item etc

 

2. If it has a private mod, even when not showcasing it, say your showing off the Sword that everyone can get, but not the armor? well it goes in to that forum

 

 

some will ask is this fair? i say yes, if People what to look at the screen shots for the Art form, they can, and it would be a lot easy for both the modders not being ask for his or her mod

and the people who want mods for there game will know not to look there, and saves time for everyone

[Luna_Natsume]

We do not want to be recognized. We just want people know who made these mods.

 

My good sir... LOL, I realize that you have worked VERY hard to learn English as a second language. In fact, I would say your better at it than many people who were born and raised here.

 

That being said, do you realize the paradox of your statement? Or simply put, how can you claim not to want recognition... when you say you want people to know you? That's sort of the definition of recognition, to be known/familliar to a large group of people.

 

If you really didn't want recognition, then you don't have to say anything. Who says it's a rule that you MUST tell everyone who made the mod?

 

I'm not suggesting that you don't DESERVE recognition, in fact I applaud your efforts in putting out gorgeous mods. What I am suggesting is why show it off, and then keep the mod locked up for yourself? An artist doesn't take pictures of his work, show it to the general public, and then tell them it won't ever be showcased in any gallery or museum. They show off their work to give everyone an oppurtunity to enjoy it first hand.

 

All I am saying, is why advertise, if your not releasing your product?

[Ark of Truth]

Ok I'm just going to voice my thoughts about all this, bashing people because they will not share their mods is not cool.

 

Simple solution to your problem Treager and everyone else with the same mind set.

 

If you don't like the fact you can't have because the modder won't share it. BUILD IT YOURSELF.

 

Just because it is being shown on the net does not mean that we want to share it with users which mostly end up not saying thank you or being ungrateful and complain that there are bugs in our work. All of the mods we create are either for ourselves or in some cases like myself are little thank yous to other modders for their work and effort.

 

Anyone can do modding it is just a matter of how much effort you are going to put into it. People cannot say how crap not sharing stuff is when you have no idea how much effort goes into creating a mod even one as small as a armor conversion let along a complete overhaul of something.

 

You should just be grateful for the stuff we share with you and just drop the subject, or would you prefer us not to share anything?

[Tea Sheriff]

Ok I'm just going to voice my thoughts about all this' date=' bashing people because they will not share their mods is not cool.

 

Simple solution to your problem Treager and everyone else with the same mind set.

 

If you don't like the fact you can't have because the modder won't share it. BUILD IT YOURSELF.

 

Just because it is being shown on the net does not mean that we want to share it with users which mostly end up not saying thank you or being ungrateful and complain that there are bugs in our work. All of the mods we create are either for ourselves or in some cases like myself are little thank yous to other modders for their work and effort.

 

Anyone can do modding it is just a matter of how much effort you are going to put into it. People cannot say how crap not sharing stuff is when you have no idea how much effort goes into creating a mod even one as small as a armor conversion let along a complete overhaul of something.

 

You should just be grateful for the stuff we share with you and just drop the subject, or would you prefer us not to share anything?

[/quote']

 

 

Completely agree. Thank you.

[srayesmanll]

Treager: You still do not want to listen. Several people here have given examples as to why someone would display a screenshot and not release the mod they made that is displayed in the screenshot. I will try one last time using the your example of "I create piece of art and only show photo":

 

1) It's a WIP (Work In Progress). I begin work on a large sculpture and want you to see the progress on it through photographs. I have not released the sculpture for public viewing because it is not done. Perfectly valid reason.

 

2) It isn't very good. I begin work on a sculpture, however by the end, I think it's not very good, but some parts are nice. So I take and share photos of the parts of it that are good but will not show the entire piece because overall I think it sucks. Perfectly valid reason.

 

3) It is too ingrained in the surrounding to be able to release it. I create a sculpture that because ingrained into the environment, a fountain for example. I cannot move it because it's too large, and is tied in to the various other pieces (water source, etc). So I will take photos of it to show others what I have done. In the "modding" context - I have create numerous mods that I have never released for whatever reason AND have never taken a screen caps (maybe more technical mods rather than a visual mods). The other more visual mod I released a screenshot of because I wanted to share it, however I can't/won't release it because it is tied to the OTHER mods I can't/won't share. Perfectly valid (if complicated) reason.

 

4) I want opinions on it. I show you pictures of the sculpture to get an opinion of where I am heading (I guess that would be an artist who wants to please other people rather than sculpting to his own tastes). Perfectly valid reason.

 

5) The artist did it as a private sculpture for another person, so I cannot share it (possibly work for hire), but I can show photos of the completed sculpture. Perfectly valid reason.

 

All of these are valid reason for an artist to create (or begin to create) a piece of art yet only show it through photos. Replace the word sculpture with the word "mod", and it still works. Here is my final question to you. With all of these screenshots where the artist did not release the mod used in the screenshot, did you EVER give the artist a word of encouragement to release their mod, either through PM or through the thread/forum wherever the screenshot was posted? Did you ever offer to test it for them so they could release it? Judging by the attitude you have taken and the condescending replies you have made to me and others who have disagreed with your initial post, I seriously doubt that you have. So as others have suggested, you can either continue learning to mod to do things yourself, respectfully encourage the artist to release their work, or just quit whining in general when someone doesn't release a mod. Because again, no one is required to release a mod just because it's used in a screenshot and you want it.

[ZaZ]

And Last But Not the Least

 

6. The Artist " Gets Off " by , Showing Off his/her Work but Refusing to Share .

Unfortunately there are people Like that too. ( I Think Thats what this Thread was gunning for)

Its Not Our Job to Judge anyone though

 

There are pros and cons to this . Mostly Every thing is covered , The Thread starter isnt Wrong or Right in certain ways , We all have Thought the Same thing one time or another , but we move on .

 

Cheers

[Luna_Natsume]

All of these are valid reason for an artist to create (or begin to create) a piece of art yet only show it through photos. Replace the word sculpture with the word "mod"' date=' and it still works. Here is my final question to you. With all of these screenshots where the artist did not release the mod used in the screenshot, did you EVER give the artist a word of encouragement to release their mod, either through PM or through the thread/forum wherever the screenshot was posted? Did you ever offer to test it for them so they could release it? Judging by the attitude you have taken and the condescending replies you have made to me and others who have disagreed with your initial post, I seriously doubt that you have. So as others have suggested, you can either continue learning to mod to do things yourself, respectfully encourage the artist to release their work, or just quit whining in general when someone doesn't release a mod. Because again, no one is required to release a mod just because it's used in a screenshot and you want it.

[/quote']

 

I completely agree 100%, those ARE ALL valid reasons. I cannot find fault in your logic, and I futher applaud your creative and insightful usage of my original metaphor.

 

I just think you missed the mark on one thing though. I didn't start this thread as a debate, nor to change the way things are done, nor even to pressure modders into releasing their mods. I don't reply to most of your posts, because they are quite frankly rude and directed at me in an aggressive and belittling tone. I choose not to aknowledge most of what you say due to the fact that I don't feel I have to dignify that type of condescention with a response or a rebuttle.

 

The points you made were valid, and can completely apply... HOWEVER:

 

The specific posts in the 'What mod is this' thread that I was referring to, were done with this tone:

 

6. The Artist " Gets Off " by , Showing Off his/her Work but Refusing to Share .

Unfortunately there are people Like that too. ( I Think Thats what this Thread was gunning for)

(Thank you mastercchris for that)

 

I also didn't NEED to ask the modder, nor PM him, nor ask to test it, because they made it VERY clear that they have no intention of sharing with anyone. I would LOVE to reference the specific posts, but as I said before, I am not looking to change the way they do things, or pressure them to. I don't want to be a complete DICK and ask people to rally behind me in some ridiculous protest agaist these modders, and I don't want to single out these modders and make them feel unwelcome or attacked.

 

As the subject of the thread clearly states "Am I the only one who thinks this is CRAP?", and that's all. Nowhere did I ask people to be dicks to these modders, or attack them, or pressure them. To be completely honest I think it IS crap that someone would blatantly wave a screenshot in everyones face and then tell them all, "It's just for me". Even one of our MOST celebrated and creative modders in Skyrim did that in his own conversion thread. He even LAUGHED about it. I can't remember the specific post he made, but they may have been a "You can't have it, Nya nya" in there somewhere LOL. Was it a dick move, sure it was... did it make me dislike him, no... because I still frequent his thread and check out everything he releases.

 

So if they have the right to do that (Which they do) then I certainly have a right to voice my opinion on the matter. Wouldn't you agree?

[lostrabi]

Well i read about 1% of this post. I am thankful that I get these awesome modes from these talented people. I could learn to do it but I have little time to learn it. Since I havent taken the time or the effort to learn how to make it myself I will not complain that I cant have it. So that being said get over yourself. You didnt pay or earn them in anyway so let it go. Just because it is shinny and different doesnt give you the right to demand the work they invested into. I got a great idea stop looking at those pictures. Keep the demons away for another day. By the way thank you Modders. You kick a## and take names. Thank you for sharing your work and I am sorry that I cant really do much more for you other than to enjoy what you let me to.

[lampuiho]

 

Oh dear Darwin. Another rant thread posted outside of a the Rant Thread that will cause pain and consternation. First we get the the rant that everybody is posting crap to the Nexus and now we get a rant that nobody is posting their cool crap to Nexus (or here). Well' date=' let me give you my 2 cents (ok, 1 cent now...)

[/quote']

 

Well, look, they could share those stuff privately instead of publishing those stuff in public.

 

I would share everything I make really. I wouldn't want those stuff go into waste if it's created and somebody out there wants it. It's not even like that thing can be taken from you and you lose it by sharing.

 

And I certainly got nothing to gain by just showing a screenshot of the work I make. I show a screenshot because I want approval in order that I know people want my stuff. That's the only practical reason to show a screenshot.

 

And Last But Not the Least

 

6. The Artist " Gets Off " by ' date=' Showing Off his/her Work but Refusing to Share .

Unfortunately there are people Like that too. ( I Think Thats what this Thread was gunning for)

Its Not Our Job to Judge anyone though

 

There are pros and cons to this . Mostly Every thing is covered , The Thread starter isnt Wrong or Right in certain ways , We all have Thought the Same thing one time or another , but we move on .

 

Cheers

[/quote']

 

No it's not our job to judge people. But it's our responsibility, as part of the community, to help make this place better. If we know what makes the place better, we should voice our opinions. And no, we don't just move on. We need to make sure things happen. If not, we would be going no where.

[Ark of Truth]

It is in no way shape or form your responsibility to judge us modders. Without us there would be no mods and there is no possible way you guys can know how to make a forum better. Different people like different things. People come here for mods or help for mods without the modders here problems cannot be fixed, without the modders you get no mods, without the mods there would most likely be no community here.

 

If you guys want to start to control what we modders say you can and cannot have then go ahead but don't expect us to be around if you try, it's our mods! You do not own us, you do not pay us to make these mods or influence how we make them in any way. To be honest you can either accept the fact that we don't want to share them or you can jog the hell on. To be honest you guys are beginning to act ungrateful.

 

For you're own sake don't make me get the rule book

 

Just my personal opinion on this.

[JOESAN21]

I dont know. I have been wanted several of Endiness' mods for some time now. I understand, with copyright rules and such, he cant just release them. What he did do for me is go through in detal where he got them, and how he converted them. I was surprised and very happy he would help me create my own stuff.

Unfortunately, I cannt afford 3DS MAX or Poser Pro. So I cannot make mods, but every modder here that has said they dont want to release something, has always been polite about it. It stinks that certain mods wont get released, but that is just my personal want hurting. There are so many modders out there that always give to the rest of us, I cant really fault the few who want to keep their stuff.

[KainsChylde]

Modders who don't share their creations do so for a reason. Maybe it was made with undistributable resources, like stuff ripped from other games or media. Maybe its still a work in progress, and the images are just a progress report of what they've done so far. Maybe they are hypercritical of their own work and don't consider it worthy of distribution yet.

 

There are any number of reasons for not sharing, but there are ZERO reasons for us as mod users to be rude about it. As demonstrated by the post above mine, simply asking can reveal a lot and possibly get them to share with you. If not what they made, then the resources to make your own.

[thatTESguy]

Having been on both sides of the equation, my personal rule:

Release screenshots conservatively, release mods liberally. And always ask.

 

On the requester side of the equation: Artists are people too, with a variety of motivations, interests, etc. There are a whole lot of reasons why artists don't choose to release their works (as in mods):

 

1. The content could be copyrighted or borrowed from someone else

2. They want it as part of a portfolio (and hence not to the public until a certain time)

3. They are unwilling to debug issues and deal with irate users

4. They are hypersensitive to any potential negative criticism (this ends up as a trait for quite a few artists, who are naturally perfectionists)

 

Despite these reasons, one of the things you could do is try to ask nicely. As in any instance of negotiation, asking someone for something without giving anything in return is unlikely to get you anywhere. Instead leverage the skills that you have (say, art, scripting, word of mouth advertising) in exchange for the mod content. Identify the true reason why they're unwilling to release the mod (and it's often not the case that they're just jerks).

 

And as someone else mentioned, asking them how they produced their work is a compelling alternative. Most are willing to share in this regard, even if they flatly refuse to share the actual content.

 

For modders: It's your responsibility to anticipate people asking for your works once you release them. Like it or not, screenshots end up essentially as an unintended advertising medium. It's also your responsibility to deal civilly with any requests (from making it public, releasing it on a case basis, or simply politely declining). It may also help to put a blurb on your screenshot stating the reason for not sharing (i.e. copyright issues, portfolio work, etc)

 

Simply said, if you're simply going to be selfish about the whole affair, you might think twice about releasing to an audience that's just going to ask you and subsequently be pissed off, making it a lose-lose affair for both of you. Hence my "Release screenshots conservatively, release mods liberally" guideline.

 

I personally scrutinize every one of my screenshots to make sure that there's no "interesting" content that I don't care to release (for whatever reason). Sure it's an extra step, but it cuts down on the nastiness. (And if you ask nicely, I'll probably package it up just for you, anyways).

 

/end thread.

[Yami X]

I agree with the OP it's a dick move plain and simple no amount of explanation will convince me otherwise it is what it is at this point.

[gregathit]

Having been on both sides of the equation' date=' my personal rule:

[b']Release screenshots conservatively, release mods liberally. And always ask.[/b]

 

On the requester side of the equation: Artists are people too, with a variety of motivations, interests, etc. There are a whole lot of reasons why artists don't choose to release their works (as in mods):

 

1. The content could be copyrighted or borrowed from someone else

2. They want it as part of a portfolio (and hence not to the public until a certain time)

3. They are unwilling to debug issues and deal with irate users

4. They are hypersensitive to any potential negative criticism (this ends up as a trait for quite a few artists, who are naturally perfectionists)

 

Despite these reasons, one of the things you could do is try to ask nicely. As in any instance of negotiation, asking someone for something without giving anything in return is unlikely to get you anywhere. Instead leverage the skills that you have (say, art, scripting, word of mouth advertising) in exchange for the mod content. Identify the true reason why they're unwilling to release the mod (and it's often not the case that they're just jerks).

 

And as someone else mentioned, asking them how they produced their work is a compelling alternative. Most are willing to share in this regard, even if they flatly refuse to share the actual content.

 

For modders: It's your responsibility to anticipate people asking for your works once you release them. Like it or not, screenshots end up essentially as an unintended advertising medium. It's also your responsibility to deal civilly with any requests (from making it public, releasing it on a case basis, or simply politely declining). It may also help to put a blurb on your screenshot stating the reason for not sharing (i.e. copyright issues, portfolio work, etc)

 

Simply said, if you're simply going to be selfish about the whole affair, you might think twice about releasing to an audience that's just going to ask you and subsequently be pissed off, making it a lose-lose affair for both of you. Hence my "Release screenshots conservatively, release mods liberally" guideline.

 

I personally scrutinize every one of my screenshots to make sure that there's no "interesting" content that I don't care to release (for whatever reason). Sure it's an extra step, but it cuts down on the nastiness. (And if you ask nicely, I'll probably package it up just for you, anyways).

 

/end thread.

 

 

Absolutely one of the most insightful posts in this thread.

 

Good job!

[lampuiho]

Modders who don't share their creations do so for a reason. Maybe it was made with undistributable resources' date=' like stuff ripped from other games or media. Maybe its still a work in progress, and the images are just a progress report of what they've done so far. Maybe they are hypercritical of their own work and don't consider it worthy of distribution yet.

 

There are any number of reasons for not sharing, but there are ZERO reasons for us as mod users to be rude about it. As demonstrated by the post above mine, simply asking can reveal a lot and possibly get them to share with you. If not what they made, then the resources to make your own.

[/quote']

 

The point is not whether they share. The thing we are actually discussing is whether they should post screenshots of work that would never be published.